Nu Well tablets with Artesian well

[bkyser]

I have googled the heck out of this, and can't find an answer. Our artesian well on a place we purchased for basically glorified camping, has been capped off for several years. I get a little flow out of it, (a trickle), the neighbors get so much pressure, they don't really need a pump.

It would cost me more to put in a 4" well (code now) than I paid for the whole lot and small building.

Because there is "a little" positive pressure in the well, would Nu Well tablets work, if I capped off the well when they were in there, or would the little bit of pressure stop the acid from getting to the outside of the screen?

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I've looked everywhere, and even emailed Johnson, and haven't gotten any advice.

 

[Valveman]

How you going to get the chemicals to go out in the formation when the water is always flowing in? You would have to dissolve them and force them in with more pressure than is coming out. And you are probably not going to increase the pressure to where you don't need a pump, no matter what you do. Why not just add a pump system?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[bkyser]

How you going to get the chemicals to go out in the formation when the water is always flowing in? You would have to dissolve them and force them in with more pressure than is coming out. And you are probably not going to increase the pressure to where you don't need a pump, no matter what you do. Why not just add a pump system?

I do have a pump, but it loses suction right away, because it can't suck enough water.

My question is how to even use the tablets. The water is so slow, that I can send a hose down 80 feet, and pump air down until all the water bubbles out. Then it takes a full 10 minutes for the water to get to the top. I am not an expert, that's why I am asking.

 

[Reach4]

It would cost me more to put in a 4" well (code now) than I paid for the whole lot and small building.

How big is your well-- 2 inch? Steel or PVC?

 

[bkyser]

Yeah, 2". I measured 80 feet deep when running black irrigation hose down to try to use air to get the sediment out.

 

[Reach4]

Yeah, 2". I measured 80 feet deep when running black irrigation hose down to try to use air to get the sediment out.

2 inch PVC . Or not?

Was there much sediment that came out? Did you get a good geyser with your compressor? I am thinking that 40 to 60 CFM might be needed to really blow out debris. If your compressor is limited, you might consider making an air lift pump.

If you can get a good seal, you could blow air down to force chemicals into the formation.

You have a shallow well pump. Is it at the well? Is freezing not a problem? You will only be able to lift about 25 ft or so from the water level to the pump level. If your pump is elevated, lower it. Also, make sure the piping down the hole does not go higher on the way.

It is possible to run a 2-pipe coaxial system into a 2 inch casing, and that can draw from deeper. You can also run a Simple Pump http://www.simplepump.com/ down the casing, and it can even be motorized.

 

[bkyser]

I think the casing is galvanized from the looks of it.
I did try pressure. Got it to 60 psi, before the rubber gasket let loose and blew my air pipe out of the well.

When trying to remove the sediment, water was cloudy, but not a lot of debris. Kept repeatin until water ran clear, that's why I think it's the screen.

Shallow well pump is right above the well, only about a foot or less above it.

In the winter,everyone pulls the pumps, , and takes them home to avoid freezing. Just a non insulated shack. Not all year round.

Thanks

 

[Valveman]

I did try pressure. Got it to 60 psi, before the rubber gasket let loose and blew my air pipe out of the well.

You can probably get the tabs to go out in the formation like that, if you can keep the rubber gasket from coming loose.

 

[bkyser]

Any idea how much pressure would be the minimum to use? I don't know what is typical for an artesian well. The gasket was a cap that brings the 2" pipe down to the 1" riser. I replaced the galvanized riser with plastic irrigation pipe, ran it to the bottom, and pressurized it. I did get a few signs that the seal was going to fail, but the screws that squeeze the bushing are so small that it is hard to crank them down far enough to really seal it tight.

I was hoping that 40-50 lbs would be more, just based on the fact that most shallow well pumps I've seen only pressure the lines to around 30 lbs.

Not sure if that means anything at all.

Now, my only other concern is. If I pressurize the well, and get the tablets to work, if I get a real geyser like the neighbor has (doubtful, and I really hope not) Could I get the cap/gasket off and put the galvanized pipe back down and fit it all together? The galvanized pipe is threaded, so I figured the worst case would be to get a 2" ball valve, screw it in while the valve is open, then close the valve. My big concern with that is the neighbor showed me a ball valve that had frozen and blew apart 2 years ago, even though he kept a lamp in a box around the well head over the winter.

Like I said before, I really am stupid with this stuff. I try DIY stuff all the time, but I don't always succeed, as evidenced by my missing index finger tip that ended my music career.

 

[bkyser]

2 inch PVC . Or not?

Was there much sediment that came out? Did you get a good geyser with your compressor? I am thinking that 40 to 60 CFM might be needed to really blow out debris. If your compressor is limited, you might consider making an air lift pump.

If you can get a good seal, you could blow air down to force chemicals into the formation.

You have a shallow well pump. Is it at the well? Is freezing not a problem? You will only be able to lift about 25 ft or so from the water level to the pump level. If your pump is elevated, lower it. Also, make sure the piping down the hole does not go higher on the way.

It is possible to run a 2-pipe coaxial system into a 2 inch casing, and that can draw from deeper. You can also run a Simple Pump http://www.simplepump.com/ down the casing, and it can even be motorized.

Simple pump looks interesting, but it says for 4". I am interested in a 2 pipe coaxial system that would fit in a 2" casing, just need to try to find info.

 

[Valveman]

You shouldn't need much pressure. You just need to to flow down and not up. You don't want to force the tabs back too far. You just want them to hang around at the screen for as long as possible. As long as there is air flowing then that is enough pressure. I am guessing 5-10 PSI.

 

[bkyser]

I forgot to mention, The casing is 2", I have a cap (the one mentioned above) with a rubber gasket that brings it down to 1". I do have a spare cap in case I ruin the current one. There is 1" ganvanized going down through the gasket cap, below that, it is connected to black plastic (looks like irrigation pipe, but it says in blue letters "for potable water") that goes down 18'.

The galvanized pipe and black plastic pipe is what I took out, and replaced with actual 1" irrigation pipe to run to the bottom, and pump the sediment up.

My first thought was to see if I could just drive the well deeper, hoping the point would still drive down, but the neighbor (who used to sell well pumps for a living) told me that the well is plenty deep enough, as he and another guy are the ones that put all of them in the area in. He was the one saying that the screen is probably corroded shut from being capped off for several years.

The previous owner actually built the shack OVER the well head, so there isn't a good way to pull the well, or really even drive it deeper. I'm kind of stuck either fixing what is here, or paying big bucks (was quoted $7000 because the nearest drilling company still in business, is 2 hours away, they charge that....because they can. I only paid $7000 for the place. I may end up having to haul water and pour it in the toilets to flush.

 

[bkyser]

You shouldn't need much pressure. You just need to to flow down and not up. You don't want to force the tabs back too far. You just want them to hang around at the screen for as long as possible. As long as there is air flowing then that is enough pressure. I am guessing 5-10 PSI.

At least that gives me hope. Any suggestions on a good place to purchase the tabs? I just wanted to ask questions before I spent another $70 on something that I had no idea if it would work or not.

 

[Reach4]

Simple pump looks interesting, but it says for 4". I am interested in a 2 pipe coaxial system that would fit in a 2" casing, just need to try to find info.

It says

INSTALL ALONGSIDE YOUR SUBMERSIBLE
In almost all 4" and larger wells. (Or alone in a 2" well.)​

It's not cheap, especially if you motorize it. For drinking water without having to start the generator, it would be very good. For water to take a shower, not as good, I wouldn't think.

For searching for info on a coaxial jet system for a 2 inch casing, try this search in your favorite search engine: deep well jet pump packer OR leathers

 

[bkyser]

It says

INSTALL ALONGSIDE YOUR SUBMERSIBLE
In almost all 4" and larger wells. (Or alone in a 2" well.)​

It's not cheap, especially if you motorize it. For drinking water without having to start the generator, it would be very good. For water to take a shower, not as good, I wouldn't think.

For searching for info on a coaxial jet system for a 2 inch casing, try this search in your favorite search engine: deep well jet pump packer OR leathers

I hope this isn't dumb, but if the screen is not letting much water in, would a different pump make a difference? I started looking up both pumps, and that question popped in my head. I don't think the issue is that the water is too deep, it just isn't flowing into the casing.

I would have thought that it would at least suck the water out of the 18' 1" pipe, and out of the casing that it sits inside before the pump loses the prime, but it happens almost instantly.

I tried 2 other pumps, thinking it was a problem with the pump, but they all 3 did the same thing.

I think someone mentioned driving another pipe down inside the current pipe, but how would I get past the current screen/sand point/ or whatever is down there? That might be the next step, but I'm not sure I wouldn't just do more damage than good. For what we are using this well, I could get by with a much smaller casing, as it is mainly just to fill up a toilet, and washing hands. (no shower in the building, this is true roughing it... think of a "wooden tent" that's basically what the building is.

Thanks
bk

 

[Reach4]

I hope this isn't dumb, but if the screen is not letting much water in, would a different pump make a difference?

1. the deep pump would be able to draw down to a lower level. For a given amount of restriction at the bottom screen, the flow will be bigger if the pressure differential on each side of the screen is bigger. So the lower the water level, the less the pressure inside of the screen.
2. a slower pump would give the pump more time to recover. You could just restrict the output of your shallow pump to match the rate that the well can produce to limit drawdown to 25 to 30 feet. There are devices that can detect that a pump has run out of water by monitoring the current being drawn. You could use a bigger pressure tank and a pressure switch that keeps the pressure tank to maybe half of its capacity if there is water available. If the production is too low, you could have the first pump fill a storage tank, and then pump from that for your showers etc.

 

[bkyser]

1. the deep pump would be able to draw down to a lower level. For a given amount of restriction at the bottom screen, the flow will be bigger if the pressure differential on each side of the screen is bigger. So the lower the water level, the less the pressure inside of the screen.
2. a slower pump would give the pump more time to recover. You could just restrict the output of your shallow pump to match the rate that the well can produce to limit drawdown to 25 to 30 feet. There are devices that can detect that a pump has run out of water by monitoring the current being drawn. You could use a bigger pressure tank and a pressure switch that keeps the pressure tank to maybe half of its capacity if there is water available. If the production is too low, you could have the first pump fill a storage tank, and then pump from that for your showers etc.

Thanks, I did order the NuWell tablets just now. Won't have anything in time to get it working this weekend, so we'll be hauling water. Not the end of the world, at least we have a toilet that we can flush by pouring water down it, and don't have to dig holes.

I printed off the whole thread and will investigate different pump options if the tablets don't work. The guy that I got the tablets from said that as long as I can pressurize the well, and stop water from constantly flowing in (and washing out the acid) the tablets should work as well in an artesian system, as in a standard well. I will check back in after I get the tablets and use them.

Anyone here good enough at math to tell me how many tablets in an 80' by 2" diameter pipe?

Seriously, thanks for the help, and for not making me feel stupid.

 

[Reach4]

The Grundfos Redi Flo2 looks interesting... 1.86 OD pump... made for ground water sampling etc. I saw a site that said it was discontinued. I saw one offered on an auction site. I don't know anything other than what pages say.

 

[bkyser]

UPDATE!!!! I used the NuWell product per instructions. Yes, as a man I was tempted to just use the whole thing, but I didn't.
First, I pumped out the water down to roughly 2' of water in the bottom of the well. (artesian, but VERY reduced flow, so it gave me plenty of time to work) I added 1/2 the tablets (gallon size container) very slowly. I am a big kid at heart, and enjoyed the sounds the tablets made when hitting the water below, very unique cartoonish sound.

Anyway, I put my stopper with ball valve back on the well head. I didn't need to add any more air pressure, and the chemical reaction with the water and pellets, quickly increased the water pressure to well above the 10lbs the gentleman that helped me with hole products suggested.

After 2 hours, I opened up the ball valve, and got a ton of pressure out, but also figured that would help "agitate it" as the instructions said. I left it open about 5 minutes, and closed the ball valve again. I did this again every 2 hours for the next 6 hours, each time, I got a good blast of "stinky" air (chemical does NOT smell good) I went to bed and just let it sit there. The next morning, I put a hose on the ball valve and got what looked like cottage cheese coming out rather quickly, after about an hour (no pump) I had a fairly good stream of clear water. Hooked up the pump (no back flow preventer at this point, just to see if I was getting enough water in the system. Woohoo! It is working with more pressure than I have at home with city water! This stuff is amazing. I'm glad I found this sight!

My plan is to give it 1/4 bottle a year each spring to do maintenance, as I guess it is illegal to put in 2" wells in this area now, so if I don't maintain it, I could still be looking at a huge bill in the future.

I have left the artesian well running without pump, just draining through a hose for this week, and plan to then run the pump with no back flow preventer for the weekend, so the pressure will go up, and then travel back down several times to blow out any remaining sediment.

I promised I would update everyone, and I thank you for the help.

Bob