Newbie with rainsoft system

[Jimmy214]

Hey guys,

I bought my home a couple months ago here in South Jersey.

I'm tracking down what seems to be low flow issues throughout my home. Pressure seems to be good when I verified it with a gauge.

I have well water supplied to the house with a rainsoft TC series softener as well as what I believe is a carbon or calcite filter preceding the softener.

The valve setup makes it look like it was set up to be isolated and backwashed out of the drain valve in front of the filter. Could I backwash this without risk of blowing media out of the filter?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

?

I'm trying to figure out if I can manually backwash this filter before I take it apart to rebed it.

 

[Bannerman]

I'm tracking down what seems to be low flow issues throughout my home.

Try bypassing the softener to see if that improves the flow rate. If the flow improves, then that is a usual indication the resin will need to be replaced.

In using a pressure gauge, the gauge will need to be located downstream of the source of restriction and the water will need to be flowing. If water is not flowing to a fixture where the flow reduction is observed, then you will be only testing the static system pressure which will be identical to the pressure prior to the restriction.

As there is no bypass on what appears to be a carbon filter, then establishing if that is the cause for restriction will be more difficult. You could either install a 3 valve bypass, or temporarily disconnect the filter and install a straight section of pipe.

A calcite filter should utilize a back washing head otherwise the media will eventually become a solid clump of concrete. Additionally, a calcite tank normally incorporates a removable plug so that additional media maybe easily added as the media is dissolved and is consumed.

A carbon tank with only an In-Out head (non-back washing) is typically configured to be upflow. If you disconnect the filter, you could attempt to use a garden hose to force water through the opposite direction to flush-out any sediment and debris.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

The valve setup makes it look like it was set up to be isolated and backwashed out of the drain valve in front of the filter. Could I backwash this without risk of blowing media out of the filter?

Upflow tanks without a controller can be backwashed by running water thru at a high enough rate. A drain to accomplish that would have to be after the tank, however.

Is it too late to avoid the media cementing together? I don't know. Blowing the media out? Seems unlikely, but I am not sure.

As Bannerman points out, the bypass on the softener lets you see if it is the softener adding the backpressure.

You should get a lab water test. I like kit 90 from http://www.karlabs.com/watertestkit/ as giving great bang for the buck. Others recommend tests that require getting the sample to the lab the same day or next day. Knowing the raw water characteristics would let you know what is needed. And that should give a clue as to what has been put in. For example, if the raw water was pH 7.4, you could be confident that is not a calcite tank. Chatting with the neighbors is often useful. It is a good chance to meet the neighbors. They probably know stuff about the water in the area, and may know specific things about your system. Most people like being asked such things.

Your equipment appears to be good stuff.

I'm tracking down what seems to be low flow issues throughout my home. Pressure seems to be good when I verified it with a gauge.

For testing pressures after the conditioning equipment, a pressure gauge with a garden hose thread is useful. You can usually buy that locally for under $20. It will screw to the laundry taps, and it will screw to the WH drain. Since the outside hose bibs are piped in before the softener, they should read about the same as the one at the pressure tank.

You want to drain water out of the drain at the bottom of the pressure tank. Sediment collects there, and that drain lets you get that out.

Do you have smells or colors from your water?

Have you considered system sanitizing? That should be done. Every few years may be enough. It depends. After you do rebuilding and installing is a good time to sanitize so that you take care of things introduced during your work. While you are doing stuff, I would do a WH flush (more than just a drain and refill).

 

[Jimmy214]

Upflow tanks without a controller can be backwashed by running water thru at a high enough rate. A drain to accomplish that would have to be after the tank, however.

Is it too late to avoid the media cementing together? I don't know. Blowing the media out? Seems unlikely, but I am not sure.

As Bannerman points out, the bypass on the softener lets you see if it is the softener adding the backpressure.

You should get a lab water test. I like kit 90 from http://www.karlabs.com/watertestkit/ as giving great bang for the buck. Others recommend tests that require getting the sample to the lab the same day or next day. Knowing the raw water characteristics would let you know what is needed. And that should give a clue as to what has been put in. For example, if the raw water was pH 7.4, you could be confident that is not a calcite tank. Chatting with the neighbors is often useful. It is a good chance to meet the neighbors. They probably know stuff about the water in the area, and may know specific things about your system. Most people like being asked such things.

Your equipment appears to be good stuff.


For testing pressures after the conditioning equipment, a pressure gauge with a garden hose thread is useful. You can usually buy that locally for under $20. It will screw to the laundry taps, and it will screw to the WH drain. Since the outside hose bibs are piped in before the softener, they should read about the same as the one at the pressure tank.

You want to drain water out of the drain at the bottom of the pressure tank. Sediment collects there, and that drain lets you get that out.

Do you have smells or colors from your water?

Have you considered system sanitizing? That should be done. Every few years may be enough. It depends. After you do rebuilding and installing is a good time to sanitize so that you take care of things introduced during your work. While you are doing stuff, I would do a WH flush (more than just a drain and refill).

We actually had a water test from when we bought the home. New Jersey law dictates that the seller must have a water test done. Our water is actually slightly acidic here.

 

[Reach4]

We actually had a water test from when we bought the home. New Jersey law dictates that the seller must have a water test done. Our water is actually slightly acidic here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PH says slightly acidic for soil would be 6.1–6.5. A 6.2 pH would be an appropriate application for calcite. On the other hand, most people would call 6.8 slightly acidic. That would not be cause for a calcite system.

It is desirable to have your water pH in the 6.5-8.5 range. What was the pH on your water test?

 

[Jimmy214]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PH says slightly acidic for soil would be 6.1–6.5. A 6.2 pH would be an appropriate application for calcite. On the other hand, most people would call 6.8 slightly acidic. That would not be cause for a calcite system.

It is desirable to have your water pH in the 6.5-8.5 range. What was the pH on your water test?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PH says slightly acidic for soil would be 6.1–6.5. A 6.2 pH would be an appropriate application for calcite. On the other hand, most people would call 6.8 slightly acidic. That would not be cause for a calcite system.

It is desirable to have your water pH in the 6.5-8.5 range. What was the pH on your water test?

The uncorrected PH is 4.33 yikes. Water test point after the treatment is 6.5 on the nose

 

[Reach4]

The uncorrected PH is 4.33 yikes. Water test point after the treatment is 6.5 on the nose

You will need to shine a bright light through the tank to check the level. At your pH, you will probably want a mix of calcite and Corosex (a brand of magnesia/ magnesium oxide/ MgO).

Too bad you don't have a top port to make filling that tank easier. I suggest you get a 5.3 ounce tube of food grade silicone grease and a spare O-ring. I like Molykote 111. Use a very light amount, but I would buy more than 0.5 ounce at a time.

http://web.uri.edu/safewater/files/TipSheetC12-pH.pdf
Another option would be an injector pump injecting soda ash solution. You would think that injecting a sodium hydroxide solution would be better, but I think there is more concern that a failure could be very bad.

 

[Jimmy214]

You will need to shine a bright light through the tank to check the level. At your pH, you will probably want a mix of calcite and Corosex (a brand of magnesia/ magnesium oxide/ MgO).

Too bad you don't have a top port to make filling that tank easier. I suggest you get a 5.3 ounce tube of food grade silicone grease and a spare O-ring. I like Molykote 111. Use a very light amount, but I would buy more than 0.5 ounce at a time.

http://web.uri.edu/safewater/files/TipSheetC12-pH.pdf
Another option would be an injector pump injecting soda ash solution. You would think that injecting a sodium hydroxide solution would be better, but I think there is more concern that a failure could be very bad.

Is there a certain mix ratio that I should be trying to achieve as far mixing the calcite and corosex?

 

[Reach4]

Is there a certain mix ratio that I should be trying to achieve as far mixing the calcite and corosex?

Did you click Inbox above? I was not saying that link tells you what you need, but it looked interesting. The "calcite/corosex ratio of 3: 1" seems a bit fixed, but it may be in the ball park of where to start.

I like Hydrion 5.5 to 8.0 test paper that is often used for saliva or urine measurement. I bought that for seeing if I had made my well acidic enough during sanitizing. But I think that might be useful for your post-treatment measurements.

Electronic pH meters are nice, but the sensor life is more limited than test paper. You also need to calibrate it each time (I think) with two buffer solutions. You can't use distilled water for calibration because surprisingly it takes very little CO2 to drop its pH.

 

[Jimmy214]

Did you click Inbox above? I was not saying that link tells you what you need, but it looked interesting. The "calcite/corosex ratio of 3: 1" seems a bit fixed, but it may be in the ball park of where to start.

I like Hydrion 5.5 to 8.0 test paper that is often used for saliva or urine measurement. I bought that for seeing if I had made my well acidic enough during sanitizing. But I think that might be useful for your post-treatment measurements.

Electronic pH meters are nice, but the sensor life is more limited than test paper. You also need to calibrate it each time (I think) with two buffer solutions. You can't use distilled water for calibration because surprisingly it takes very little CO2 to drop its pH.

I'll definitely order some test strips to try to measure it out when I rebed it.
Is there a way that I could redo the piping to make the tank easier to disconnect? It's copper as of now, but I would like a way to isolate from both sides of the tank to pull it out easier.

 

[Reach4]

I'll definitely order some test strips to try to measure it out when I rebed it.
Is there a way that I could redo the piping to make the tank easier to disconnect? It's copper as of now, but I would like a way to isolate from both sides of the tank to pull it out easier.

You have a union on the right side now. If you also had a union on the left, I expect that would do it. However stay tuned. You might get advice on how to get your calcite to backwash to prevent your media from clumping/cementing together. You probably have an upflow tank. So a valve that lets you send water to the drain at an appropriate rate could be advisable. http://www.purewaterproducts.com/articles/backwash-chart#Calcite shows a backwash rate that they select.

An extra faucet between the softener and the calcite tank could maybe serve as a place to manually backwash, and it would be a place where you could take samples, and you could attach a GHT pressure gauge when you wanted to check out pressure drops.

Another option would be to replace that tank with one that could make refilling (top port, and maybe bigger tank) and/or backwashing (controller or valving) easier.

 

[Jimmy214]

I'm thinking that if I just go to redo the bedding that maybe I should just go ahead and put a Fleck valve on it so that i don't have to manually backwash it every time

 

[Reach4]

I'm thinking that if I just go to redo the bedding that maybe I should just go ahead and put a Fleck valve on it so that i don't have to manually backwash it every time

While considering such a change anyway, maybe you might consider also getting a new tank with a fill port up top.

 

[ditttohead]

Tank with dome hole... life is now easy.

 

[Jimmy214]

Tank with dome hole... life is now easy.

I decided to go ahead and bite the bullet on this one. I ordered a new 1.5 cubic foot tank with a dome hole, as well as a fleck 5600sxt. I was looking at just the fleck and it was ranging from 200 to 300.00. I paid 550.00 for the whole set up to include the media and stainless bypass. We shall see how that works.

Any tips on the installation? I was reading that it's better to have PEX of cpvc before the neutralizer. I didn't know if it was worth gutting that stuff to change it over.

I'm hoping that the bypass has enough room to just spin 2 elbows on it.