New tub spout install not rigid due to copper rough in

[ShelzMike]

Perhaps this is a normal occurrence and I am just not aware as I don't think I have even used a copper stub out before for the tub spout. Anyhow, I have completely redone all of the supply and DWV plumbing in the whole house and working on the bathroom finishing at this point. For the long runs, I used PEX, but chose to use copper for all of the rough-ins for fixtures and the like for rigidity. All has worked well so far.

I used a 1/2" copper stub out for the tub spout. I used a vertical piece, elbow, then horizontal piece to the spout end. The vertical piece is secured to blocking in the wall with a strap that is just above the elbow where it turns out. The vertical pipe itself isn't that long, maybe 3" MAX, if even that. I installed the spout, tightened the set screw and the rear of the spout is flush with the tiled wall. However, it doesn't feel as solid as the original spout did, which was galvanized. This makes some sense to me and I should say it isn't "flimsy" or even "loose" in the general sense of the words; however, there is some movement when pulling the shower diverter up. Perhaps it is not really a problem at all and this is sort of normal with copper stub outs, and I can accept that, but wanted to ask at least.

Also, for sealing around the spout and at the escutcheon plate for the water valve, I have grout color matched silicone - should I use that, or should I use clear? Tiles are 8 x 16 white glossy and grout is Mapei Avalanche white. Thanks!

EDIT: OK, so I think I may have figured out part of the problem that may lead to having to do something else. The Delta instructions fail to mention that the rubber o-ring in the spout is NOT actually a stop, but instead is suppose to go over the copper pipe. I found the thread linked below and while not mentioning a loose spout, it did pique my interest because I measured and fit the same way he did.

So, looks like I may have to go the sweat connection route because I assume where I have it cut is too short. The instructions are pretty terrible.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/copper-pipe-too-short-to-install-tub-spout.40016/

 

[James Henry]

I think you failed to use a drop eared 90 screwed into a 2x4.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

This makes some sense to me and I should say it isn't "flimsy" or even "loose" in the general sense of the words; however, there is some movement when pulling the shower diverter up.

What spout do you have? It appears to not be the one discussed in the link you provided, since for that one, you activate the diverter by pulling the ring down.

 

[ShelzMike]

I think you failed to use a drop eared 90 screwed into a 2x4.

I didn't use a specific drop ear elbow, but I did use an elbow and attached it with a strap to 2x4 block just above the elbow, so basically the same difference. Maybe the drop ear is slightly more rigid, but I don't think it it by much. I believe my problem is the type of faucet I used and the fact that I cut the stub out too short.

What spout do you have? It appears to not be the one discussed in the link you provided, since for that one, you activate the diverter by pulling the ring down.

The one I have is RP48718SS. (https://www.deltafaucet.com/parts-product-detail?modelNumber=RP48718SS)

I believe I am going to have to seek out either a spout that is threaded at the end closest to the outlet and sweat on a coupling and add length, or use the Delta sweat adapter that is reference in that other thread.

EDIT: OK, the adapter is not referenced in that other thread. The adapter I am referring to is: RP33794 - https://www.deltafaucet.com/parts-product-detail?modelNumber=RP33794

 

[ShelzMike]

Actually, it looks like it may be easier to just get a spout that threads at the output end and sweat on a coupling, a little length of pipe and a sweat male fitting (like Terry pictured in the referenced thread).

 

[Reach4]

Does that include the RP33794 adapter with the set screw which looks like the one on the right of this?
https://www.plumbingsupply.com/images/delta-diverter-tub-spout-adapter-rp33794.jpg

Or is it the one with the hex that looks like this?
https://terrylove.com/forums/index....c390bc-4644-44f3-bddc-6849988f3d85-jpg.54065/

Either way, the only o-ring that I know of goes on the end of the adapter. Maybe they are including something else in addition now.

So if the movement is in-and out of the wall, I suspect your strap has some slop, and you could maybe shove something in to stop the wiggle if you have access. Alternatively, maybe give the spout another turn CW, and put a little tension on the copper pipe.

 

[ShelzMike]

Neither, actually. It is a plastic slip on with a set screw. The o ring is at the end of the slip on adapter and most definitely is supposed to go over the pipe otherwise it would stop water when diverting to shower. I should have realize this before I installed. I actually need the part you shared.

There is actually no turn too tighten involved, which is why there is some play, I imagine.

 

[Bannerman]

Although you didn't say so directly, your 3" MAX length for the vertical section leading to the tub spout hints that you may have installed PEX between the control valve and that 3" section of copper pipe.

Because flow will be diverted to the shower head by blocking flow to the tub spout, any restriction between the valve to the tub spout will result in some unintended flow to the shower head whenever water is flowing to the tub spout. Because 1/2" PEX has a smaller inner diameter compared to 1/2" copper, the increased flow resistance means PEX should not be used between the valve and the tub spout. PEX may continue to be used between the valve to the shower arm.

Here is a recent thread on this forum: https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/pex-or-copper-between-valve-and-tub-spout.16220/

 

[Reach4]

Actually, it looks like it may be easier to just get a spout that threads at the output end and sweat on a coupling, a little length of pipe and a sweat male fitting (like Terry pictured in the referenced thread).

Product Details for the Delta RP17454 or RP17453
6" Tub Spout Diverter Replacement Part Pull down to divert type

Thread onto 1/2" IPS nipple - 5/8" to 1-5/8" from wall surface
or Sweat onto 1/2" CWT - 1/4" to 1" from wall surface
RP12307 Adapter assembly included with those two plus some other-- some of which pull up to divert.

 

[ShelzMike]

Although you didn't say so directly, your 3" MAX length for the vertical section leading to the tub spout hints that you may have installed PEX between the control valve and that 3" section of copper pipe.

Because flow will be diverted to the shower head by blocking flow to the tub spout, any restriction between the valve to the tub spout will result in some unintended flow to the shower head whenever water is flowing to the tub spout. Because 1/2" PEX has a smaller inner diameter compared to 1/2" copper, the increased flow resistance means PEX should not be used between the valve and the tub spout. PEX may continue to be used between the valve to the shower arm.

Here is a recent thread on this forum: https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/pex-or-copper-between-valve-and-tub-spout.16220/

At first, I was really confused what you meant by 3" max. I had to go back and read my OP and realized that is what I said but not what I meant. What I meant was that the vertical section between the elbow and the strap was no more than 3". It is all copper as you can see in this rough in pic. Only PEX coming in as supply at the bottom (not connected in this pic).

 

[ShelzMike]

Product Details for the Delta RP17454 or RP17453
6" Tub Spout Diverter Replacement Part Pull down to divert type

Thread onto 1/2" IPS nipple - 5/8" to 1-5/8" from wall surface
or Sweat onto 1/2" CWT - 1/4" to 1" from wall surface
RP12307 Adapter assembly included with those two plus some other-- some of which pull up to divert.

Thanks for this. I think I'm going to prefer the type that screws in at the nose to give me more room. I'm going to visit my super friendly neighborhood supply house tomorrow morning and talk to the showroom gal to get a good option. I am OK with this pull down diverter type but my wife wants me to see what other kind they have available.

 

[Reach4]

Thanks for this. I think I'm going to prefer the type that screws in at the nose to give me more room. I'm going to visit my super friendly neighborhood supply house tomorrow morning and talk to the showroom gal to get a good option. I am OK with this pull down diverter type but my wife wants me to see what other kind they have available.

If you solder, , yes part of the adapter is close to the wall. You do the soldering at the end of the adapter that is farthest from the wall. If you solder the adapter, remove the o-ring during soldering.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index....4-tub-spout-installation-with-pictures.80758/
https://terrylove.com/images/delta_tub_spout_a1.jpg

The MIP adapter would be smaller mass, so your torch would not have to supply as much heat as when soldering the adapter itself.

 

[Bannerman]

Glad no changes were needed for the valve > spout piping.

A brass drop ear elbow would provide a sturdier mount as the ears would be fastened to wood blocking directly behind. Pushing in on the spout pipe will be prevented from flexing backwards or being pulled forward which could occur with lightweight pipe straps that maybe easily deformed. A directly fastened elbow will also be more resistant to sideways twisting and vertical forces.

Changing the elbow type would likely require either raising the elbow up to the exsisting wood blocking, or installation of additional blocking. The present spout extension tube appears that it might be quite close to the tub so you may wish to verify the spout will install fully to the finished wall while providing sufficient space between for caulking or alternate waterproofing of the tub>tile joint.
.

 

[Martin Boring]

If you haven't closed the walls in I sure would go back and put a brass drop ear in and new 2X4 wood blocking and come out with a brass nipple and use a screw on spout. It just makes a more solid set up. Not that what you have won't work the other is a nicer set up.

 

[ShelzMike]

If you haven't closed the walls in I sure would go back and put a brass drop ear in and new 2X4 wood blocking and come out with a brass nipple and use a screw on spout. It just makes a more solid set up. Not that what you have won't work the other is a nicer set up.

Oh, I am already closed up, tiled, and everything. Sure, hindsight and all, but I am not getting into all of that for sure! I think if I find a decent screw on spout and can pull it tighter against the tile, I'll find a happy medium .

Problem is, I am having a bit of a difficult time finding a spout that has the right fitment and doesn't clash with the rest of my fixtures. The pull down diverter comes up all over the place, but I don't like how it is flat on the top.

One question - the sweat to male thread (in the pic above) is what would fit on what Delta is calling threaded IPS, right? I know the IPS generally is referring to a brass nipple, but it is still the same thing, right?

 

[Reach4]

Problem is, I am having a bit of a difficult time finding a spout that has the right fitment and doesn't clash with the rest of my fixtures. The pull down diverter comes up all over the place, but I don't like how it is flat on the top.

Here is a magic Google search for you (include the quotes): "RP12307 adapter assembly included"

Those all use the same adapter. Something is likely to appeal to you.

 

[ShelzMike]

Here is a magic Google search for you (include the quotes): "RP12307 adapter assembly included"

Those all use the same adapter. Something is likely to appeal to you.

I found one to order that comes with that adapter. My concern is whether or not I'll have enough pipe coming out of the wall to use it so it will fit. I will see when it gets here Friday I suppose. I mean, worse comes to worse, I have a bit opening in the back as I took the service panel out (to replace it with a better one later) and I could possibly desolder the current stub and put in another. However, while my soldering game has definitely stepped up with this whole house replumb project, I would be nervous about soldering in the wall. I know how to do it safely and have the flame retardant blanket. I'm more worried I can get it done well enough to not leak. I'll have a better idea once I receive it.

 

[Reach4]

One question - the sweat to male thread (in the pic above) is what would fit on what Delta is calling threaded IPS, right? I know the IPS generally is referring to a brass nipple, but it is still the same thing, right?

Yes.