Moving toilet location in concrete slab.

[Dcelite]

The new vent for the sink needs to be no more than 42" from the p-trap and must travel vertically until it is 6" above the sink. Then you can run horizontally. Though you may need to run up to the ceiling and then over to tie into the existing 3" vent.

DC
Elite Plumbing

 

[Dcelite]

The san tee for the first sink (closest to the 3") actually uses the other sink drain as a vent and is flat (not legal). Instead of a san tee you could use a wye with a spigot san tee in the branch and then connect the vent from the top of the san tee to the existing 2" above it. All that being said, you should only have 1-fixture unit on a 1 1/2" horizontal drain.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Piperca]

Thank you, sir!

The first drain is sitting at 19" on center and the second at 22" on center. I am thinking I should drop the first drain to 15", so that the second is at 18", what do you think, is it necessary? I just think 22" is a bit high.

I'll be running the copper for the sink just below the drain line and the shower valve I will be placing in between the vent and the new drain line on the back wall, so it can be adjusted before stepping below the shower head. Here is what I propose to do. The green outline is where the shower is going ... roughly.

 

[Dcelite]

Depending on the heighth of the vanities the 22" may be cutting it a little close. If you're using pedestal sinks then you should be allright. I usually set the sink drains at 19" off the subfloor (for vanities) and we have a few inches to spare on our tail pieces from the sink. There is no problem with the shower valve configuration. We set them at 48" off the subfloor but it's not a code issue.


DC
Elite Plumbing

 

[hj]

drains

The height of the drain openings depends on the countertop elevation, the type and depths of the sinks, and the type of drain fittings. IF that "thing" next to the stack connection is a sink drain opening it CANNOT be rolled upward the way you show it. And as a practical matter, since the other sink's drainage is flowing past it, it is effectively unvented, regardless of how close it is to the main vent. I would have run the horizontal line even lower, then used a combo at the first sink with a vertical vent and a sanitary tee at the same elevation for both sinks. What you have is a good design for a single sink at the far location, but not for two sinks at any location.

 

[Piperca]

I would have run the horizontal line even lower, then used a combo at the first sink with a vertical vent and a sanitary tee at the same elevation for both sinks.

I'm not sure I clearly understand what you're saying, sorry. If I drop the sanitary tee on the stack and run to the first drain, I would need to vent vertically from there, then tee off the vent (wet vent) to the other drain? Is this right?

The san tee for the first sink (closest to the 3") actually uses the other sink drain as a vent and is flat (not legal). Instead of a san tee you could use a wye with a spigot san tee in the branch and then connect the vent from the top of the san tee to the existing 2" above it. All that being said, you should only have 1-fixture unit on a 1 1/2" horizontal drain.

Okay, I'm going to up everything to 2"; vent and drain. Now what I think both of you guys are saying is, I can run from the stack to the first drain, venting off vertically at that drain, then leaving the rest of the existing configuration as-is ... is this correct?

 

[Piperca]

Okay, it might take me a while, but I finally get it. Is this what you're talking about:

Please comment ASAP, so I can end this nightmare ... LOL!

 

[Dcelite]

Now you've got it. Also, if you need that first sink to be a couple inches lower with a similar configuration, then use a wye in place of the combo and put your san tee right on the wye (it will laying at a 45 degree), then put a 45 on the top of the san tee to go straight up to the vent. Hope you can picture that. It will just drop the sink stub out a couple inches if you still need that.

DC

 

[Dcelite]

Also, the two inch drain is proper but another thing to get the first sink lower will be to use a 2"x1 1/2" wye and a 1 1/2" san tee.

 

[Piperca]

I think I get the picture. A combo is the wye with the bend to give you 90* and a wye would leave you at 45* ... is that correct?

I don't think I'll have a problem with height, since I'm going to drop the 3" sanitary tee down on the stack. Do they make a sanitary tee that's a cleanout, also? That would get rid of that 3" fitting that's below the sanitary tee right now.

 

[hj]

drain

If I drop the sanitary tee on the stack and run to the first drain, I would need to vent vertically from there,

so far so good. The first sink would tee into that vent at the desired height.

then tee off the vent (wet vent) to the other drain? Is this right?

Now you have gone astray. The pipe would continue from the combo fitting you used for the first "vent", to the second sink and there you would also install a vertical vent with a tee for the second sink. How that tee faced would depend on whether you ran the pipe to the sink location or just "near" it.

 

[Piperca]

I understand completely, thanks very much for the input. Looks like I can get her finished this weekend. I'll post a photo before I close her up, just to make sure there are no issues.

One last question: Can I install the cleanout above the sanitary tee? Right now, the bottom fitting on the stack is the cleanout. For me to get the drain to work the way it is supposed to, I'll have to switch the cleanout with the sanitary tee; in otherwords, make the sanitary tee the lowest fitting ... it's that or I find a sanitary tee that has a cleanout built into it. Where would I find such a thing?

 

[Dcelite]

No problem with putting the clean out tee above the san tee for the sinks drain.

DC

 

[Piperca]

Well, I finished for the day and feel like I accomplished something. Everything is 2", except for the vertical vent/drain for the first sink, which is 1-1/2", and I reduced the drain to 1-1/2" after the vent for the second sink. I cut out some of the copper and started running it for the shower valve. I don't have the valve yet, so I can't do much more until I get it. What do you think?

 

[Piperca]

Well, I got the plumbing pretty much finished. Here are a couple of pics ... any comments before I forge forward?

It might not be the prettiest, but I used as much of the old malleable copper as I could and purchased some more to keep some of the transitions smooth. One thing I did, that I'm not sure is the best idea; I ran the supply lines for the new sink from the shower lines. In the second photograph you can see the tees in the lines above the floor. The sink will rarely be used, if ever, when the shower is being used, so I don't think that'll be too big a problem ... plus, the shower valve is thermostatic.

Comment, please!

 

[Iminaquagmire]

1) I think you might have issues with all that old copper not being secured. Why not just buy new copper and use that instead of sweating all those shorter pieces in? I'd find a way to secure it before closing it up.

2) You should really have some nail plates over those pipes to protect them. You may have to come up with some on your own since the gaps in the framing are so big.

3) When it comes time to sheetrock, you're going to have problems with the inside corners since there is no framing to screw into.

4) Never tile over PT lumber. It will warp as it dries out wrecking your tile. Wood in general directly over slab is a bad idea, especially in a shower curb. I'd cut that out and thinset some bricks down when you do the shower.

5) Its hard to tell, but I see what looks like 14/2 mixed in with the 12/2. Bathrooms should have a 20 amp GFCI protected circuit (20 amps = 12ga wire). It can service other bathrooms so long as it doesn't have lighting on it. If it has lights on it, it cannot leave the bathroom.

6) How are you going to attach a trap to the lavatory drain if its halfway into the shower wall?


Also, while the walls are open, think about adding any framing for future grab bars, any towel bars, pedestal sinks, etc. Even if you don't put them in now, its good to do it while the walls are open.

 

[Piperca]

1) I think you might have issues with all that old copper not being secured. Why not just buy new copper and use that instead of sweating all those shorter pieces in? I'd find a way to secure it before closing it up .

All that old copper is secured behind the 2x4s. I didn't sweat a bunch of shorter pieces together, the joints were already in the pieces ... why waste perfectly good copper that will never be seen ... doesn't have to be pretty!

2) You should really have some nail plates over those pipes to protect them. You may have to come up with some on your own since the gaps in the framing are so big.

Those pipes in the wall will never be exposed to a nail or screw. I will be enclosing the face with plywood and waterproofing the wall with Schluter Kerdi. I can see no reason for why I would ever penetrate that wall.

3) When it comes time to sheetrock, you're going to have problems with the inside corners since there is no framing to screw into.

I was asking for critique on the plumbing; I know the framing isn't complete.

4) Never tile over PT lumber. It will warp as it dries out wrecking your tile. Wood in general directly over slab is a bad idea, especially in a shower curb. I'd cut that out and thinset some bricks down when you do the shower.

I've never heard of this, but I'll look into it.

5) Its hard to tell, but I see what looks like 14/2 mixed in with the 12/2. Bathrooms should have a 20 amp GFCI protected circuit (20 amps = 12ga wire). It can service other bathrooms so long as it doesn't have lighting on it. If it has lights on it, it cannot leave the bathroom.

What you see is the existing 12/2 (white/1976), with new 12/2 (yellow) run for the new GFCI. This is a GFCI circuit only and will not be servicing anything else. You can also see wires running for the vanity lights, etc, which are on a completely different circuit.

6) How are you going to attach a trap to the lavatory drain if its halfway into the shower wall?

I have a 45 degree fitting that is going to turn the drain out from the corner. I will be adding a reducer to drop it down to 1-1/4" to accomodate a polished chrome exposed trap/drain.

Also, while the walls are open, think about adding any framing for future grab bars, any towel bars, pedestal sinks, etc. Even if you don't put them in now, its good to do it while the walls are open.

Already thought of that, but thanks for mentioning it. As I said, the framing isn't completely finished. I have yet to run round the shower stall with screws to secure everything for the Schluter Kerdi install ... nails don't quite cut it!

Thanks for your input!

 

[Iminaquagmire]

I'm not trying to bust you down, so if you get that impression I'm sorry. I'm just trying to help you out.

1) Good on the securing. I just didn't see it.

2) Plywood is not a dimensionally stable material. If you attach kerdi, all you've done is waterproof the plywood. Its not an acceptable method for Schluter or installing tile for that matter. I understand what you're saying about not intending to puncture anything, I'm just telling you what the code says. Take that as you wish.

5) Is it a 15 amp or 20 amp circuit? Bathrooms should be 20 amp for high power hair dryers and whatnot. Again its just what the code says and you can take that as you wish. As for being code approved in 1976, codes change. When you expose it, you bring it up to current code. And lots of people think that just because their house was inspected when it was built, everything is fine. When in reality, inspectors miss things for any number of reasons. There are plenty of examples on this site alone of things that were inspected yet were completely wrong.

 

[Piperca]

No offense taken, I know where you are coming from and I appreciate the input.

Thanks for the tip on the plywood/Kerdi combo. I guess I'll have to get something to protect the pipes and drywall over them.

The GFCI is 20 amp and I corrected the 1976 comment. Upon closer inspection, the original wire is 12/2, only white in color.

As for the pressure treated lumber; if it's wrapped in Kerdi, will it work? Really don't want to tear the shower walls out!

 

[Iminaquagmire]

I see. I have all sorts of wire in my hose from the original owner. There is outdoor wire and indoor wire of all different colors.

I'm sure you can find some nail plates that are long enough in either the lumber, plumbing, or electrical sections of any big box.

Kerdi over PT would be even worse than the plywood. Just sawzall the curb section out and use some patio pavers in its place. You can Kerdi directly to that. The rest of the PT is done correctly. I don't know if you're a member of the John Bridge Tile Forum or not but its a great resource for anything tile related. There are a lot of Schluter pros there. John Bridges Kerdi E-Book is also a great resource.