Leaks or pressure tank issues?

[noob2021]

On well water at 40/60 cut in / cut out.
Pressure drops 5 psi every 30 minutes or so. Pressure continues to drop at the same rate with valve to house shut off.
With power to pump shut off, pressure will drop at the same rate to 40 and then jumps to 0. Similarly, when I connect the power back to pump, the pressure gauge jumps to 40 psi then continues on to 60psi before shutting off.
Recently, while the gauge is at 0 psi, I checked and pressure tank was at 32 psi. So, I pumped it up to 38psi. No water at the air valve.
Refilled the water, same rate of drop-off, the only thing that changed was it jumped to 50psi when I turned power back to pump.
Also pulled the pump pipe and there's water on top of the pipe. So, it's not check valve issue, correct?

Is it a leak or is it pressure tank? Should it be jumping from 0psi to 40psi the moment power to the pump is connected?

Edit: Just bought this house a year ago and recently noticed this issue. Not sure the history or when it started. But the pressure tank has some sticker with December 2018 date. Not sure if it's helpful, I also found paperwork showing pump replacement about 10 years ago ... 1hp pump on a 190' well.

Thank you.

 

[Reach4]

Is it a leak or is it pressure tank? Should it be jumping from 0psi to 40psi the moment power to the pump is connected?

It should be jumping to 38 with a 38 precharge, but the calibration of the water pressure gauge and the air pressure gauge may differ a bit.

While the water pressure is between 42 and 50, and the pump is not running, how does the air pressure compare to the water pressure? They should be close.

Also pulled the pump pipe and there's water on top of the pipe. So, it's not check valve issue, correct?

Pitless adapter? Could be a leak at the pitless o-ring, or could be a leak anywhere down to the pump. You said you pulled the pump. How deep is the pump (170?) , and how far down is the static water level? When you pull a pump with a pitless, it is often a good idea to replace the o-ring inside the casing for the pitless. When you put an o-ring into service, new or used, it is a good idea to apply a little silicone grease.

Could also be an underground leak outside of the casing.


Could be a small check valve leak, but when the water pressure is reduced for pump pulling, the leak could become very slow.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[noob2021]

Thanks Reach4

So from 0 psi, should jump to just 38 psi, correct?

When pressure gauge shows 50, the tank pressure is at 45.

I'm not sure what parts was pulled up. We thought the check valve was bad, and since we had to pull the pump, we'll just change the whole pump since we have to shock the well after anyway. Plus, planned to use the old pump to experiment with solar in another well to irrigate garden.
So it was pulled by well pump company. They screw a pump in, pulled up about 10 ft, told me the hole should not have water if check valve is bad especially since I turned off power for 4 hours prior to their arrival and the gauge is at 0. Said I don't need to replace pump or check valve, drops whatever they pulled back in and left without charging me anything. So, I tend to believe the company that check valve is not bad.

As for the static water line, I'm not sure either. The paperwork I found didn't specify,, just the depth of the pump, at 190 ft.

The drop remains at about the same rate before and after the pull.

Edit: Sorry, wish I can provide better answers. But, I'm new and just learning all these. I'm new to this home and well water systems. Lived in city my whole adult life.

 

[Sarg]

So from what you say your system cycles on about every two hours. That's a very slow leak somewhere.
What I don't know is if the check valve is leaking down would the pressure drop while the water is slowly "sinking" back into the well .... and how far the well actually is from the house system.
If it is a long distance could the level be reducing..... and when they pulled the pipe from the pitless .... it just had not retracted to that level yet ?

 

[Reach4]

When pressure gauge shows 50, the tank pressure is at 45.

One of your gauges is off. Maybe take your air pressure gauge to a tire shop and ask them to check your gauge.

 

[noob2021]

Thanks Sarg.
The pressure was dropping at the same rate before the guys came out to pull. That was the reason I called them out - from reading, I thought the check valve was the source of leak.
The well is about 100ft +- from the garage, where pressure tank, filters and acid neutralizer are in. I will get the exact distance in the morning. It's too dark to see anything now.

Reach4
I will check with my wife's tire gauge on the air valve on the tank in the morning and update the post.

Thank you both for viewing and trying to help. To be continue ...

 

[noob2021]

Checked the water pressure at 44.5psi (between 44psi and 45psi). Used my tire pressure gauge and the air pressure was at 40psi. Used my wife's tire gauge and it's between 44 psi mark and 46 psi mark.

 

[Reach4]

Checked the water pressure at 44.5psi (between 44psi and 45psi). Used my tire pressure gauge and the air pressure was at 40psi. Used my wife's tire gauge and it's between 44 psi mark and 46 psi mark.

I infer you will re-adjust your air precharge using your wife's gauge. Since you will be lowering the precharge, you should not have to pull out the compressor.

The main symptom of a little too much air precharge will be a brief stutter in water pressure each time the pump turns on.

This does not help find your leak, however. Did you identify the pitless as you pulled by chance?

See https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/leaky-pitless-adapter.90975/ including #11.

Leaks can also develop just outside of the casing.

 

[noob2021]

I will readjust the precharge levels.

No, wasn't aware there are different pitless.
No problems at all, at least we can rule out problems with pressure tank.
Appreciate your suggestions.

 

[Valveman]

As was said you have a leak somewhere. Could still be the check valve, but since it is new I would look elsewhere for a leak.

 

[LLigetfa]

Depending on the style of pitless, you might be able to use a second pitless to run a series of tests.

Pull the pump up just enough to expose half of the pitless. Fit the other half of the borrowed pitless to the drop pipe. Put a Tee on the pitless to fit a pressure gauge and air valve. Pressurize the drop pipe. If it does not hold, the leak is between the pitless and the pump.

Place the other half of the borrowed pitless down the hole onto the pitless going to the house. Pressurize it. If it does not hold, the leak is between the pitless and the house. This second test is only possible on larger casing since you cannot do it with the pump still in the well. However, if the first test does not reveal a leak, then the leak is likely either the pitless itself or the line to the house in which case test #2 can be skipped.

 

[noob2021]

Thank you valveman & Lligetfa for viewing and your suggestions.

Sounds like I really need to familiarize myself with style of pitless.

 

[WorthFlorida]

You should be using a dial type pressure gauge. I find these to me the more accurate instead of stick type.

 

[noob2021]

Sarg: Diagonally from the well, it's 71ft 9in.
Else, straight is 69ft and a few inches and turn right 11 ft and 6 inches. Not sure how the pipes were laid.

WorthFlorida: Thanks. I'll pick one up next time I go into town.