How is so much air getting into our water system?

[wgroux]

We are on a well and getting pretty strong bursts of air come thru our faucets and toilets.
(much like after a power failure or water shut off for service.)
It is consistently happening multiple times a day; somewhat cyclical?

2 of us in house for 12 years that once had family of five.
Pump in in well.
We have a radon airrader system for the water **which is bypassed for now. It's pump or electronics failed around same time this started.
I can see water in well, so don't think it is water supply issue.

Following suggestions so far and reading online numerous potential causes.

1 - shut off feed to house and apply air pressure thru a drain faucet near bladder tank (new when we bought house and installed radon system).
Only visible result was tiny bit of bubbling at stem of faucet, so I repaced it.
Pressure switch functions, but not looking healthy - also has a visible sign of rusty leakage, but dry as a bone.
I have purchased and will replace soon.

I tried this pressure testing with the water in the system, and also after draining the tank.

After draining, used a tire pressure gauge to read the bladder tank - got 32.5 pounds (makes sense)

2 - was told to shut off water to house, mark pressure gauge, and turn off well for 2-4 hours.
Looking for lost pressure. Was told loss would signal outside issue... like
- cracked pipe from house to well casing
- leaky pitless adapter
- cracked well pipe to pump
- cracked pump
- **BAD FOOT VALVE???

I understand the theory of a bad foot valve allowing water to drain back into well, letting air into system.
?? where is most likely place for air to get in??

No other sign of water leaking out in basement or yard.

Any tips of tests are much invited.

 

[Cacher_Chick]

If you have a single pipe going down the well to the submersible pump, there is no foot valve. The problem could very likely be a leak in that drop pipe. The system will still hold pressure in the house if there is an above-ground checkvalve installed.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Craigpump]

There is no foot valve used with a submersible pump, but there is a check valve on top of the pump that may not be holding. It's also possible that there is a split in the drop pipe.

The air is more than likely being drawn in past the O ring in the pitless adapter, when the water in the drop pipe drains, it pulls the air in.

It's really pretty simple to properly diagnose. We pull the pipe up out of the pitless, put a gauge on the pipe, turn the pump on against a closed valve then turn the pump off. If the pressure drops rapidly we know the problem is in the well.

Where in Ct?

 

[wgroux]

Thank you. I am in Voluntown. Today I was going to look into possibility of renting a well puller if push came to shove. (any tips?)
A friend said one guy did his with a tripod with wheels; but I saw a video online of a different unit made in Ct. Can't afford to buy it; but it looked awesome (not sure if I should mention brands on this site). 4 legged, 3 wheels, uses "any potable power" take off?

We are afraid of the potential expense for this situation.

Sounds like servicing the o ring on pitless would not necessarily fix problem?
BTW - this site is AWESOME. A coworker said he had "the tool" to pull the pitless. but what I saw was a piece of threaded pipe sticking up within reach in the well - not a hole to thread a tool. Googling pictures of pitless adapters led me to this site and pics from a guy who has the exact same one. Mine apparently pulls with threaded pipe, not rod.

Last thing I want to do is debate with a pro who is trying to help me out. This research has been a journey. I saw diagrams on another site showing a valve (check or foot) hanging below a submersible plump. Yes ours is single pipe. So, if the check valve is on top of pump - is it separate? Can it be replaced without buying a whole new pump?

After I replace the pressure switch (since I have it). Can you estimate that pressure testing you mentioned? Any other best & worst case estimates. best I can tell from notes I had when we bought house - our well may be 250-275 ft; but I remember owner saying something about not having to go down very far (for pump?) he had just replaced something back then. I can see water not that far down - might even try to measure that.

All advice welcome - and thank you again.

 

[Valveman]

If you are not losing pressure when no one is using water, then you don't have a leak or bad check valve. I think you have a micronizer or something adding air for the Radon system, and the air release for that Radon system is not working.

 

[Reach4]

After draining, used a tire pressure gauge to read the bladder tank - got 32.5 pounds (makes sense)

Normally that precharge air pressure is set to 2 PSI below the cut-on pressure. Thus, if your pressure switch is set to cut on at 35 and off at 55, then your precharge air pressure is about right. Precharge being off is not going to cause your air symptoms.

 

[Cacher_Chick]

If you are not losing pressure when no one is using water, then you don't have a leak or bad check valve. I think you have a micronizer or something adding air for the Radon system, and the air release for that Radon system is not working.

This is assuming there is only one check valve and no leak. A lot of places do have a check valve installed near the pressure tank, which would hold the pressure in the house even if there were a leak in the lateral or in the well.

 

[Valveman]

This is assuming there is only one check valve and no leak. A lot of places do have a check valve installed near the pressure tank, which would hold the pressure in the house even if there were a leak in the lateral or in the well.

True! But then he would probably notice a loud thump when the pump starts. The Radon system failed at the same time the air problem started, so I think the Radon system is letting in air and not letting out the excess.

 

[wgroux]

If you are not losing pressure when no one is using water, then you don't have a leak or bad check valve. I think you have a micronizer or something adding air for the Radon system, and the air release for that Radon system is not working.

The radon system is a tank that bubbles the water and a separate fan (from the normal air radon fan system) takes out the air in tank. Due to that obvious complete loss of pressure, the radon system has a separate kick-butt pump with a small built in bladder. You can be in a shower and someone can flush a toilet without bothering you.
HOWEVER, the whole radon system in on bypass for the time being. 3 valves all switched = water routes as if the system were not there.

?? There is another small cantelope sized expansion? tank on that side (I think) - would have to look again.

 

[Reach4]

HOWEVER, the whole radon system in on bypass for the time being. 3 valves all switched = water routes as if the system were not there.

Does that mean the bubble maker is off and the kick-butt pump is off and bypassed, or what? So the submersible pump is down in the well, and the submersible pump is the only device (except maybe a softener) that is powered currently?

 

[wgroux]

This is assuming there is only one check valve and no leak. A lot of places do have a check valve installed near the pressure tank, which would hold the pressure in the house even if there were a leak in the lateral or in the well.

Yes I DO see now I have a check valve between tank and well. Would it make sense to try testing by disconnecting, adding adapter that would let me pump air towards outside and see what goes from there?

 

[wgroux]

Does that mean the bubble maker is off and the kick-butt pump is off and bypassed, or what? So the submersible pump is down in the well, and the submersible pump is the only device (except maybe a softener) that is powered currently?

Yes - entire radon sytem (pump / air raider) is bypassed by way of handles on the pipes. No softener system in home.

 

[Valveman]

You don't need to pump air into it. Just remove the check valve, and if pressure decreases when no one is using water, then you most likely have a hole in the well pipe.

 

[wgroux]

This is assuming there is only one check valve and no leak. A lot of places do have a check valve installed near the pressure tank, which would hold the pressure in the house even if there were a leak in the lateral or in the well.

You don't need to pump air into it. Just remove the check valve, and if pressure decreases when no one is using water, then you most likely have a hole in the well pipe.

So I am guessing I would go get a short threaded pipe to fill the gap for that test. things look pretty tight there.

 

[Valveman]

Just pull the guts out of the check valve and put it back as a piece of pipe.

 

[wgroux]

Just pull the guts out of the check valve and put it back as a piece of pipe.

You guys are great - thank you! Will give that a try on my day off Friday.