How close to bottom of well can place a sub?

[Jfharper]

Model 2143084116
Ph 1
Volts 230
Hz 60
Date code L81
CVA code LSF 1.4
3450 rpm
Max amps 9.6
Continuous duty 3 wire submersible pump...it has a control box, with only 3 wires, black, yellow and red...there is no fourth green/ ground wire.

 

[Jfharper]

I decided to redo the clean out yesterday with much better success. I revised my rig for faster and more controlled work...I added an electric hoist with remote to control the lifting, holding and lowering of everything...this worked much better. In one day I pulled the 60' sub out, added the clean out pipe and was able to dig/clean out for 3 hours to 100' before my clean out rig stopped working again...probably because I turned the water line off after I reached 100'...this water line was pulling from my tank, and I didn't want to run out of water so I turned it off after having it on the entire time I ran the clean out...for some reason it stopped pushing water out the top...don't really know why...I could have kept going but I thought 100' was enough...I then pulled all the clean out stuff out, put my sub back down with an added 20' of pipe making the sub level at 80' instead of 60' as before...my water level s still at 50' and now my well bottom I'm assuming s still at 100'...when I first put my clean out rig in, it went down to 80'...the depth I accomplished on the first try...so assuming it stayed, my guess is 100' well depth giving me 30' of water level above the sub and 20' below...I also spliced in 20' of wire and once again shock treated overnight...in the morning I flushed for 2 hours at full flow and never heard any air being sucked in...I then filled my tank at full flow and never heard any air...it was a long day of work yesterday...I'm exhausted, but there s a very good sense of accomplishment I feel and am very appreciative of all the assistance you all gave me...thanks again.

Reach, I ran the compressor wide open this time...it never turned off while I was cleaning out...only turned off to add/change the pipe...the pressure maxed at 40-55 psi...so my specs above on the compressor should give you an idea of the CFM required...this was still at 100' at that psi...I'm sure I could have kept going. I used the hoist to raise and lower the clean out rig periodically and this seemed to shoot more dirt out when I did this...I would get dirty water for a couple shots, then it would clear up until moving it up or down. Periodically I would hit something hard the would keep the rig from lowering...but by the wiggle that would occur at the top when the water shot out would break though this hard level, then the rig would drop very easy and quickly for a couple feet until it hit the next hard layer...the hard layer was a grey, very fine and muddy substance...the stuff it went through quick was sand...hope this helps.

Here's a another picture with me holding the host remote and clean out rig. The hoist is at my feet because the remote power cable is short...the hoist cable attaches to a rope which goes through a pulley at the top of the windmill then down to hold the pipe..it worked well. I got the hoist from harbor freight...just the cheapest one...220 lb rating which was enough for my application. I had a power outlet next to my sub control box/ breaker box/ sub bypass switch which is behind me mounted on that old wood.

 

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[Jfharper]

Hi again,

It's been 4 years since going through the job outlined in this thread and everything has been working fine...except for yesterday...my sub would not turn on.

Testing at the control box shows 122 volts going to each leg, 244 volts between the two legs.

3 Ohms Black to Yellow (Run/Main)
11.4 Ohms Red to Yellow (Start)
...did not do amp test

Tried a new control box, my old one was very old, and still sub would not pump...no noise, I have a spigot at top of well...no flow.

I decided to pull the sub, as I had all my old gear, only took a couple hours...

So I have the sub on my workbench, and I'm wondering if I should just put a new sub in, instead of trying to diagnose a sub that someone mentioned in this thread having a manufacture date of 1981. House was built in 1984, could be the original sub.

So this is a 1 HP pump with a Franklin motor (model # two posts above), there are no markings except DURO on the wire cover on the pump side...I can find no other numbers or names or anything.

I think I remember the GPM being measured at 35 when we bought the place in 1999., according to whoever measured it. I cannot find my escrow papers with this info and I've already tried the local drill companies...nobody has my records for drilling the well or installing the sub. I'm trying to figure out what size sub to replace it with and it is a little daunting to figure out. Could someone help me with figuring out the sizing/matching of a replacement, as well as product name to go with/avoid? My well sits 80 feet below ground, water level is at 50 feet. Sub pumps into a 3750 or 4200 gallon holding tank sitting ~25 feet above ground level on a steel raised platform (good for gravity feeding a line of low pressure irrigation). So figure an extra 5 above this for the holding tank inlet tube...goes in upper area of holding tank.

Could I simply put a 1 HP, 22-25 GPM 3450 RPM 4" sub in and be done with it? Water usage is for a 1600 sq ft home, I have some trees irrigated with drip line running from a 3/4 PVC line, about 6500 sq ft of grass around house gets watered nightly, and some misc plant irrigated on timers for about 10-15 minutes nightly.

Thanks.

 

[Reach4]

Could I simply put a 1 HP, 22-25 GPM 3450 RPM 4" sub in and be done with it? Water usage is for a 1600 sq ft home, I have some trees irrigated with drip line running from a 3/4 PVC line, about 6500 sq ft of grass around house gets watered nightly, and some misc plant irrigated on timers for about 10-15 minutes nightly.

I think you are saying that the submersible pump only fills the elevated tank, under control of a float switch, and does not generate pressure for house use. I presume you have a separate pressure tank for the house.

If that is your use, then I don't see a reason to use a pump bigger than 1/2 HP for that. Here is a representative table of GPM for a 13 GPM 1/2 HP pump. You can use a 2-wire pump or 3-wire with a new controller.

 

[Jfharper]

Thanks.
Yep, that is correct. I have a separate booster pump with 2 pressure tanks after the elevated tank run with a float switch.

 

[Jfharper]

If I'm understanding that chart, depth to water is 30 feet, plus another 30 feet lift to tank, so 60. Does it matter the psi...it is only filling tank?

I'm guessing, more psi, faster fill, pump on less time. Also, with increased depth to water surface, psi drops. In my area, the water table does fluctuate a bit.

Depth to water is from ground to water surface, not ground to pump...right? Just trying to wrap my mind around this. Thanks.

 

[Reach4]

Depth to water is from ground to water surface, not ground to pump...right?

Yes. On a pump, a 13 gpm pump, for example, is most power-efficient at about 13 gpm. Yet you want the pump to be able to deliver maybe 5 gpm or so at the pump-set depth in case the water drops. So you would mainly use the 0 psi row on the tables. Yes, there will be a little backpressure, but maybe add 10 ft to your lift head prediction to compensate.

In the pump documentation, they have graphs and tables. Since you are needing to produce just a tad above zero psi, you could easily just use the graphs.

Now why not use a 1 HP 30 gpm pump? It is going to run less time each time it runs, but it will need more current. If you ever have to power the pump from a generator, it will take more generator. You will lose more power driving the water through the pipes on the way. 30 or 40 gpm needs bigger pipe to be efficient.

Why not use a 1/4 HP pump? Not usually available. There are 1/3 HP pumps, but they are possibly more expensive than 1/2 hp.

On the tables, some squares are blank. You can operate a little into the blank areas, but you don't want to operate frequently into the far blank areas. For example, a 1 hp 13 gpm pump would not be a good choice for you.

Also read up on flow inducer sleeves. If your well is bigger than 4 inch, they are good for the pump. At higher HPs, they are more important. At bigger well diameters, they are more important. 1/2 hp motors don't usually have overheating problems.

Some makers may sell a 15 gpm 1/2 pump. That would probably be even a little better. You go with what is available at a reasonable price.

 

[Jfharper]

Great...thanks for the explanation. I wanted to understand a bit more before relying on my local drill guy, although he has been credible in the past. I told him the recommendation you wrote of going with a 1/2 HP/ 13 GPM pump, and he agreed, in fact he recommended bumping up to 16 gpm to help with flow, so that matches what you said above re: the 15 gpm. He is at his warehouse today, said he will meet me with it in our town when he gets back (we live in the same town). Hopefully, I'll be putting it in, in the morning and having water again.

Oh, I put a flow inducer/shroud on my old sub when I did the procedure outlined in this thread 4 years ago, so I'll be sure to put that on the new one, since my well is 6".