head? Which pump for me?

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Tim Van

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I have a well that's 175' deep and a pump setting at about 165'
I need to replace the pump but am confused about a spec called "head."
Both pumps in the specs say they go down to 300'. However one also says it's designed for 60-100', pumps at 20gpm and 1580 gph, and has a "head pressure ft" spec of 150'. The other says it's designed for 175-250', pumps 10gpm and 600 gph and has a "head pressure ft" spec of 40'

The water in my well is sometimes at 35' and sometimes seems to be all the way down to the pump since I lose water after watering with hose full open for 20 minutes and then need to allow it to recover for about 20 minutes.

Which pump is recommended?

Here are the pump links which show the specs:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt...ll-Potable-Water-Pump-EFSUB10-123HD/205617978
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt...ll-Potable-Water-Pump-EFSUB10-253HD/205617972
Please help if you can.

Thanks,
Tim

p.s. Since noticing the "head pressure" spec I wonder if when the water runs out, if the water level is actually down to the pump, or if it's just down at a level that the pump can no longer pump - related to the "head pressure ft'" spec. I currently have the pump at the second link above. I replaced one with that one about a year ago when the previous pump failed completely and am now wondering if I should use that same pump again or get the other.
 
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Reach4

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Here is a table of Goulds 10 GPM pumps. You are not saying you want to use this pump to provide water to your house with occasional watering, or if you are doing primarily irrigation. If for a house, decide how much pressure you want. You could use a 3/4 HP 10 GPM pump. When the water level dropped, the pump would pump less GPM. Is that bad? The 3/4 HP 10 GPM pump would pump 7.5 GPM at 50 PSI if the water is 160 ft down.

The 1 HP 10 GPM pump would be out of the sweet area when the water was down only 40 ft, but that would be acceptable.

Of the 2 pumps you listed, the 20 GPM pump would not do the job. I did not look at the 10 GPM pump in detail, but it would probably do the job.


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Tim Van

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Here is a table of Goulds 10 GPM pumps. You are not saying you want to use this pump to provide water to your house with occasional watering, or if you are doing primarily irrigation. If for a house, decide how much pressure you want. You could use a 3/4 HP 10 GPM pump. When the water level dropped, the pump would pump less GPM. Is that bad? The 3/4 HP 10 GPM pump would pump 7.5 GPM at 50 PSI if the water is 160 ft down.

The 1 HP 10 GPM pump would be out of the sweet area when the water was down only 40 ft, but that would be acceptable.

Of the 2 pumps you listed, the 20 GPM pump would not do the job. I did not look at the 10 GPM pump in detail, but it would probably do the job.


View attachment 35142

Thanks for the quick response!
I have a lot of gardens around the house so I do use it a lot for "sort of" irrigating, but not like on a farm. Concerning the "head pressure" could I actually be pumping the well all the way down to the pump with that 20gpm pump, or is it just related to the "head pressure" spec and being beyond the actual recommended depth of 60-100' even though it says it's good for 300' while the water level isn't actually all the way down to the pump when it runs dry?
 

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even though it says it's good for 300' while the water level isn't actually all the way down to the pump when it runs dry?
There specs seem odd. Read through them and see what you think. I just glanced.

Maybe they are saying that it can raise water from 300 ft at a tiny trickle. Maybe they are saying their pump can pump ... wait... let them say what they are saying. You need a pump that can produce GPM into a pressure of 50 or 60 PSI from your water level of 60 ft but still make some flow at 160 ft into 60 PSI. Pump makers provide that data. Keep looking, and maybe you can find that data for the pumps you are considering.

For sizing a pump for a house, you have to take into account the pump needs to pressurize the system, and not just get water into an atmospheric tank.
 
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Tim Van

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There specs seem odd. Read through them and see what you think. I just glanced.

Maybe they are saying that it can raise water from 300 ft at a tiny trickle. Maybe they are saying their pump can pump ... wait... let them say what they are saying. You need a pump that can produce GPM into a pressure of 50 or 60 PSI from your water level of 60 ft but still make some flow at 160 ft into 60 PSI. Pump makers provide that data. Keep looking, and maybe you can find that data for the pumps you are considering.

For sizing a pump for a house, you have to take into account the pump needs to pressurize the system, and not just get water into an atmospheric tank.

The table shows 1200 "GPH" which is 20 "GPM" x 60min.

I'm wondering if both pumps are actually putting out about 10gpm at 175'. The 20gpm, which is rated at 60-100' but specs say it will go down to 300' and setting at 165' (so may only pump 10gpm at 175') and the 10gpm rated at 175-250' but says it will go down to 250 and actually pump 10gpm at that level.

Still puzzled by how the 150' and 40' "head pressure ft" figures into all of this, and if my 20gpm pump with suggested depth of 60-100' is unable to pump when the water is down "near" the 165' but not "at" the 165' level - maybe only down 100' for example. I could drop a string and float down to find out the highest level (35') but couldn't do the same when the pump wasn't pumping anymore since the water activity coming into the sides would just tangle it around the pipe going down to the pump.

Next time I pull it, I could connect some sensors at different levels, but until then the actual water level when the pump quits pumping is kind of a mystery, but the specs., including the "head pressure ft" spec might give some clues about it which is the reason for my questions about it.
 

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When running a 40/60 pressure switch the 60 PSI is like adding 138' to the 165' depth to the pump. That would be a total of 303', and a 1HP, 20 GPM pump cannot build that much head or pressure. You will need to use the 10 GPM series in a 1HP to work at that depth and pressure.

You should still be concerned about shortening the life of the pump by letting it cycle on and off while using hose irrigation. A Cycle Stop Valve will keep the pump from cycling even when only using one hose or sprinkler.
 

Tim Van

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When running a 40/60 pressure switch the 60 PSI is like adding 138' to the 165' depth to the pump. That would be a total of 303', and a 1HP, 20 GPM pump cannot build that much head or pressure. You will need to use the 10 GPM series in a 1HP to work at that depth and pressure.

You should still be concerned about shortening the life of the pump by letting it cycle on and off while using hose irrigation. A Cycle Stop Valve will keep the pump from cycling even when only using one hose or sprinkler.

Perfect! That's the kind of information I was hoping for - Thanks. And I've heard about the Cycle Stop Valve, so will look into that. The 10GPM pump is the one I ordered, but then began wondering if I made the right decision.

Would you also be able to explain the "head pressure ft" spec to me - in "layman's terms?"
 

Reach4

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The water in my well is sometimes at 35' and sometimes seems to be all the way down to the pump since I lose water after watering with hose full open for 20 minutes and then need to allow it to recover for about 20 minutes.
That is your current pump. If your well runs out of water, a new pump would not help that. So I suspect you suspect that the current pump is in the water, but it does not have enough oomph. If if was short of oomph, the water pressure would drop gradually as the water level fell. If the pressure drops off suddenly, that would typically indicate out of water, I think. It could be a thermal cutoff, but out of water seems more likely.

I would consider a smaller sprinkler head.

Pumps are often set about 20 ft off of the bottom so as to not pick up sediment. Yours is 10 ft, so probably running out of water was considered, and the lower level was selected for your pump.
 

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2.31 feet is the same as 1 PSI of pressure. So for your pump to lift water from 165' and get to 60 PSI for the pressure switch shut off, it needs to be able to make 165' + 138' or 303' of head.

A 1HP, 20 GPM pump is maxed out at 250' of head. So it can pump water from 165', but will only deliver 1 GPM at about 36 PSI.
 

Tim Van

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Thanks to both of you - great replies.

Am getting a lot of sediment even after cutting 10' off the pipe last time when I found it stuck in sediment when trying to pull it. Was also considering "fracking" (deepening the well to 250' would also be required to frack I was told) which would keep the pump out of sediment, while still allowing enough water on top of it. So maybe that, along with the 10GPM pump rated at 175-250 feet, might solve all my problems?
 

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Sediment is a well problem, the pump not lasting and not shutting off is a pump problem. Some wells cannot be deepened. You need to fix the sediment problem then put in a pump that can deliver from that depth.
 

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You could consider cleaning the crud off of the bottom of the well. The two main ways are to use a big compressor to blow a large volume of air to the bottom via pipe. The water and crud erupt like a geyser.

The slower way, but using a much smaller compressor, is to use an air lift pump. Searches including Youtube will show examples and designs.
 

Tim Van

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You could consider cleaning the crud off of the bottom of the well. The two main ways are to use a big compressor to blow a large volume of air to the bottom via pipe. The water and crud erupt like a geyser.

The slower way, but using a much smaller compressor, is to use an air lift pump. Searches including Youtube will show examples and designs.

Thanks. Was told the well (over 60 years old) was drilled 180'. Have a well guy coming out this week to advise me on all of this. I had ordered the new 10 GPM pump last week in anticipation of possible future failure since I've run it dry several times (accidentally of course).

Thanks again for all the replies.
 
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