Educating the Higher End Client of what to look for in High End Linear Drains

[JohnfrWhipple]

Roberto I'm going to cut that Kerdi Line drain for you now. Sorry but no slow mo like promised. You will have to settle on a regular speed video. I have the cheaper IPhone that does not have the slow mo option.

 

[ShowerDude]

speaking of drains check this out...new noble thinbed drain? interesting ...

http://noblecompany.com/storage/docs/resources/Thin_Bed_Drain_Product_Decription_0113.pdf

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Jadnashua]

The clamping ring is thin, but it will produce a slight ridge that the water must get over. Since not much gets to the membrane, it may not be an issue. It will be interesting if used with a moisture sensitive stone to see if there is any evidence of moisture at that lip and backed up about an inch or so over time.

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

Have you seen one Counter? The Thin Bed Drain. I have not seen on yet or installed one. Looks pretty straight forward.

 

[DonL]

Is the "Please Note: I do not read nor do I see Jim's (Jadnashua) posts." Really Necessary ?

You need to kiss and make up.

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

.....You need to kiss and make up.

Nope. Happier without reading his Schluter Propoganda Posts thank You.

 

[Eurob]

Another example of a linear drain with some gizmos to it

Profilitec linear drain

Here is how the inside of the drain looks once installed

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

Set a 1400mm 55.16" #93816 ACO Shower Drain Today.

Before installing the drain I gave it a light coat of Laticrete Hydro Ban to better bond the drain to the fortified mortar bed (Laticrete 3701). This step allows the thin-set (used 253 for slurry coat) to bite better to the Electropolished Finish. Then the Slurry Coat sets with the Mortar Bed.

 

[Eurob]

Roberto I'm going to cut that Kerdi Line drain for you now. Sorry but no slow mo like promised. You will have to settle on a regular speed video. I have the cheaper IPhone that does not have the slow mo option.

Well , to my surprise I did receive the package you've sent me John , but the Kerdi line drain is not cut . Instead you cut the ACO one . I could've sell it .

Alright , jokes aside , I've opened the package -- not damaged --

and to my surprise both of the drains showed some signs of oxidation -- dirty looking -- .

It made me jump right into the cleaning mode , but before , I've put them side to side -- like in a debate mode -- , to make it more relevant .

Applying the product on both of them -- PEEK cleaner , protector and polisher in one --

and after cleaning them the test can show clearly that the electropolish finished SS have an advantage over the brushed SS . I would say the cleaning towel from the brushed SS had about 30% more oxidation present on it than the electropolish finish .

and the result after the first pass is pretty relevant and with very good results .

You can clearly see how the cleaning product -- PEEK -- is really making them shine and clean looking . The second towel was used to '' buff'' the SS and remove all of the cleaning product -- no drying on the channel body allowed -- . You can notice how much less of the black residue is present , but the proportions are in favor of the electropolish SS finish .

At this stage the electropolish SS finish have a good lead ahead of the brushed SS finish .

To be continued.......

 

[Jadnashua]

As I've said, the rougher the original metal surface, the more material you'll get off when polishing it, so it should be absolutely no surprise that one got more metal residue on it than the other. It has nothing to do with the end functionality.

 

[Eurob]

I guess I wanted to try so much the other product -- Gel Gloss -- that I just couldn't wait few more days , so I've applied a small amount of it on both finishes

And the black residue -- oxidation but no metal particles -- is still present on the cleaning towels . As a precautionary side note , avoidance of the grout -- touching it with the cleaning towels -- is recommended.

The Schluter brushed SS still has it present quite good amount vs. the ACO electropolish SS . As you can see the ration of residue is much higher on the brushed SS , I would say 70% vs. 30% on the electropolish SS .

Both were cleaned with the PEEK prior to the Gel Gloss . I would say the Gel Gloss is a '' cleaner '' method , but did not try it yet from a uncleaned stage . Will do it after few more tests are done -- water or soap staining , etc. --

Brushed SS from Schluter

ACO electropolish SS

Those are based on hands on cleaning and are done with the support of the cleaning products manufacturers -- at least from their custom service department -- .

To conclude for now , the electropolish surface is super reflective now -- mirror finish -- and it did not take a lot of rubbing -- as some will claim -- or effort , it was quite an easy step . The brushed SS is also shinny and it did benefit from the cleaning process .

Regular maintenance of the channel body should be done , I would say every 3 to 4 weeks . Removal of the hair can be accomplish in the same time especially if a strainer is used . In the long run the benefits of cleaning the channel body with a protective cleaner will make it much easier in removing the deposits from it . Trust me , I've seen what can get on them after 6 months of use and it is not pretty . Did I mention the rinsing of the linear drain after each shower use ?

Other tests will be performed later on , after exposing the channel bodies to regular contaminants , for future references .

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

Glad you got my care package Roberto.

The cut ACO drain was left over from a job where I needed to make a small Neo Angle Stall into a larger baller shower. I used a 55.12" ACO drain for a 32" shower.

You can see how I trimmed the sides and had the tile guy bring the wall tile and curb tile down into the drain body. This Quadro Grate works well for cutting smaller versions as does the linear grate.

When I was done cutting the drain I used the Off cut as a test in my lab.

When I say test I mean I left it outside for months in the sun and rain. When I say test you should know it was outside - not in a lab. When I say test I mean John style or Whipple style. You know how some manufactures worry over verbiage like this (ummm cough... Schlut-er).

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

Thanks for doing those test Roberto - that's awesome. Once you let me know how they hold up I will be able to pass on better recommendations to my clients. I will of course let them know your lab test was not done in a lab but on a plywood subfloor.

How did you make sure the environment was perfect for cleaning. Did you wear a lab coat and matching booties? LOL

This man is going to tile and grout a Kerdi Niche. In the lab. Then add less than an inch of water to it. He will wait for two days and determine if the niche is both vapour and waterproof. Me - I'm crazy. I just filled it with water! LOL

 

[Eurob]

John , I don't use any of the BUYING products in a lab environment . If they perform in real life conditions , it means they do the job intended for their use .

If a product survives a test lab and doesn't survive a real life test , then the product is not to be used -- at least in our books -- LOL .

I also didn't wash the plywood floor ....but the interior of the channel body only

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

Nice work Roberto. I was hoping for a real life test process and you have delivered. Secretly I was hoping the ACO drain would outperform the Kerdi drain even more than you showed.

Life happens outside of lab conditions. I think the style of testing we are doing is like consumer reports magazine. Real test on real products. Not selected products but rather random purchased products.

The tests show casing a day in the life.

I get so many positive emails from people thanking me for these tests and feedback. And only a couple of people whining about them. It's funny the man who whines the most about my methods promotes the inferior products......

Makes you think.

 

[Eurob]

When the need presents -- finding a product which work -- for a cleaning process ............and you don't have defined -- specific products but general recommendation -- help from a manufacturer customer service ........... you have to do the extra steps .

We are not afraid of doing them -- we also keep track of them -- and if sharing them helps , then we do our job and care about it-- claiming it , is not always enough --

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

I think it's easier to just say what you like.

"I use XYZ I like it because it works"

The internet is full of douche bags reading crap online and then re typing what they read. When some asks me how to clean up a drain . I'll say the ACO drains get a rag and water. Or you can pimp it out with what Roberto uses.

Then I can show them pictures.

I certainly would not goggle and answer and much prefer your testing method Roberto.

Just call it as you see it.

 

[Eurob]

Still need to do a long term follow up , John .......... without having a proper direction -- a specific product rather than use a SS recommended product -- from the so called S customer service .

You need to use the right product for your application -- specific type of finish SS channel body surrounded by a specific environment . You can't use a product recommended only for finger prints , just because it says use for cleaning the SS .


A quality control cleaning product is needed for a quality controlled shower build .

 

[Vegas_sparky]

Have you guys tried a good automotive car wax to protect the interior of these drains?

I've polished plenty of brushed 304 stainless with cutting compounds, and buffing wheels. Eventually they'll shine to a mirror finish. Wax works great to keep the parts looking good. Except for race car exhausts, which turn black in 10 minutes of running time. LOL

 

[Jadnashua]

You would not have any products to use if it were not for the lab tests. There are fundamental differences between a polish and a cleaner. A polish has an abrasive in it (often very fine) and does remove some of the surface, the finer it is, the less it removes under the same circumstances, the coarser it is, the less polish, and the more surface is removed. A cleaner essentially removes the crud from the surface, leaving the finish of the material the same, and it's a good idea to choose one that won't have any degrading effects on the item being cleaned.

The lab tests give you a baseline against which you can begin to evaluate whether they are suitable for your needs. For example, if you needed a thinset meeting the ANSI spec A118.11 to bond something to say plywood, you could eliminate all of them meeting A118.1 and A118.4. Now, not all of them meeting any one spec are identical, but they do all meet at least the minimum specifications for that designation. It's up to you to decide the best one for your situation. So, use them as you see fit, but to knock lab tests shows a lot of ignorance. If you have some special circumstance that wasn't addressed in the test as designed, then it should be obvious that it's not going to be the differentiator you may want to know. But, the standards industry makes a reasonable assessment of what is required, then writes a test and develops standards to test the various products. This is where you can get into big trouble...using a product in a manner in which it was neither designed nor tested. An example of this is the reasonable use of a shower niche...given that it is covered in thinset and tile once installed, there is no way it will have standing water in it for days on end as the vast majority will run off, and what may get into the grout will evaporate in the meantime. The standards industry knows this, a 'normal' person won't have a hard time conceptualizing that, but some have big trouble with that concept.