Cisterns in a Creek

[AlaskaJohn]

hello all,

i have been dealing with this water problem for 16 years.

i have 2 cisterns in a small creek as a water supply. the first acts as a kind of settling tank to feed the second tank. both are concrete about 4 feet deep and 4 feet across. water is drawn from the second tank. the water quality can go from clear in the winter to a lot of particulate matter most of the time to muddy-ish in a storm.

cisterns-->1" line to house-->140 mesh rusco spindown-->jet pump-->50 micron house filter-->pressure tank-->5 micron filter-->UV-->house water

other than wintertime, the water has a lot "stuff" in it. the rusco does catch a lot but gets clogged easily as the silt tends to stick to the filter screen. flushing the rusco does remove some of the matter. but, i have to manually clean the rusco screen almost every day in the crawlspace during the summer. i also have to change the 50 micron filter very often. the 5 micron, not so much.

i've spent a lot of time searching for pre-filters like the rusco that would flush all the debris easily to no avail. i see that there are spindown filters with a kind of scraper in them to allow better flushing without removing the filter screen. obviously, i can get a 100 or 60 mesh screen for the rusco but that would mean that the 50 micron would get dirty even faster.

with the quality of my water supply, i'm sure that my water system will always be a bit "hands on". but, i need a better solution. putting a pump in the cistern is not an option. i would completely redesign my water system if i had a real solution. i've been researching a ton for a long time. that's why i'm here.

suggestions would be greatly appreciated. thanks so much.

john

 

[Reach4]

You could use a backwashing filter, with a media like sand, but lighter. Then each day (if needed) you backwash the filter with a timer. Filter-Ag is one such media.

This filter will look like a water softener, but the backwash rate will be a lot higher than a water softener.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Bannerman]

 

[Bannerman]

The Atlas Filtri Hydra filter shown in the video above. offers an optional Auto Purge kit that is battery operated, to automatically flush the valve on a regular schedule such as daily.

 

[AlaskaJohn]

thanks so much for the info. i'll look into both of these suggestions.

i would love to replace both the rusco 140 mesh pre-filter (before the jet pump) and the 50 micron (between the jet pump and the pressure tank) with a see-thru filter that is truly self-cleaning filter.

when the water has a lot of stuff in it like it does now, i have to stop the pump and purge the rusco filter a few times during each pumping cycle. i don't have to go into the crawlspace to do the purge. as i'm getting older, this is starting to get very old!

obviously, when i purge or "backwash" the pressure comes from the pressure tank that is in front of the filters. from my very limited plumbing knowledge, most backwash filters seem to need the pressure to come from behind.

thanks again.

john

 

[Reach4]

It is not normal to have a filter before the pressure switch. The concern is that the filter could clog, so the pump never shuts off.

obviously, when i purge or "backwash" the pressure comes from the pressure tank that is in front of the filters. from my very limited plumbing knowledge, most backwash filters seem to need the pressure to come from behind.

Neither of the suggestions expect the water to come from behind.

What is the nature of what clogs your spin-down filter? Organic material?

I would presume largely organic material rather than sand etc. Organic material will burn/char in a flame, and sand will not.

 

[AlaskaJohn]

hey reach4. thanks.

i understand what you are saying about the pressure switch. but, without filtration (2 of them!) the pressure switch gets clogged. you're right, though, if either the rusco pre-filter or the 50 micron filter between the pump and the pressure tank get clogged, the pump runs for a long time. we're very aware of this...always keep an eye on it.

the material in the rucso is almost all organic. some of it gets flushed out during a purge but a lot sticks to the filter screen. the creek is tiny. lots of organic stuff in it.

thanks.

john

 

[Reach4]

Add a pressure relief before the first filter.

I think the spin action is not going to help as much as it would with something heavier like sand. The screen still functions.

If you put in a filter in a screen, I would upsize it. In the Rusco line, I would consider the RUSCO Sediment Trapper 2"

Spin-down and Sediment Trapper Filters

Rusco Spin-Down Filters, Sediment Trapper Filters, and Accessories for your potable water filtration needs. Proudly made in the USA.

www.rusco.com

...even tho your pipes are not that big.

I think the spin-down aspect helps with sand, but I think not much with lighter material.

https://www.twistiiclean.com/ They may not be rated for as much pressure. Also, not available with timer flushing.

Atlas Filtri Hydra comes in up to 1.5 inch. https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/156 https://83498217-c360-4279-a995-14f...d/a3c37f_9f88186d39884311879c495819511bda.pdf

 

[AlaskaJohn]

thanks for all that information.

here's where i am confused about the backwashing/cleaning/purging...

in all the videos i've seen, it looks like this:
pump-->filter-->clean water (during regular use)
pump-->filter-->to waste (during purge)

but my system is:
cistern-->filter-->jet pump-->pressure tank-->clean water (during regular use)
to waste<--filter<--jet pump (off)<--pressure tank (during purge)

the atlas filtri hydras looks interesting. but, my backwashing would be backwards according to the videos. will it flush properly that way? i'm sorry if i have made this confusing.

btw, i have a new star systems ES07S jet pump waiting to be installed. the current one is more than a decade old. i want to do the whole job at once rather than piecemeal.

i appreciate all your time and expertise.

john

 

[Reach4]

Very good point. I was missing that. Backwashing filters expect pressure, rather than suction, at their inputs.

Perhaps you could work around this with cistern--> check valve -->filter-->jet pump. Then when manually backwashing, make the pump run to fill the pressure tank. Turn off the pump. Then do the backwashing, with the pressure tank water running backwards thru the pump. I am not sure if that would work or not. What I am envisioning would not be automatic.

So there could be a check valve at the cistern, and another check valve bringing water from the pressure tank to the input to the filter.

How about a big screen on the intake at the cistern and not needing a further filter between the intake and the pump. If you used a submersible pump in the cistern, rather than a jet pump, that would put all of your filters after the pump.

 

[Fitter30]

There are many types of bag filters with different micron ratings. Bag filters can be washed out with two or more bags they can be changed in minutes.

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Why trust any other company beyond Filter Sciences for industrial water filtration solutions? Get durability and convenience with us, along with 35 years of experience! Shop today!

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[AlaskaJohn]

thanks.

"Perhaps you could work around this with cistern--> check valve -->filter-->jet pump. Then when manually backwashing, make the pump run to fill the pressure tank. Turn off the pump. Then do the backwashing, with the pressure tank water running backwards thru the pump. I am not sure if that would work or not. What I am envisioning would not be automatic."

that's exactly what i have now. and, that does remove some of the stuff in the rusco but not all of it as the organic matter sticks a bit to the filter screen. it builds up quickly. also, this is "backwards backwashing" - it seems that most filters don't backwash that way. sounds funny. and, putting a pump in the cistern is not an option.

i'll look into the "bag filters", thanks.

it's starting to look like a problem without a great solution. i've considered removing the rusco pre-filter but that would mean more filtering between the jet pump and the pressure tank and a lot more gunk going through the pump.

thanks for all your time.

john

 

[Bannerman]

Not fully understanding the cisterns in the creek concept.
As I understand it, both cisterns are physically located within the creek, and water only enters the 1st cistern, which then is transferred to the 2nd cistern which is supplying a jet pump.

In what manner is water entering the 1st cistern?

Does it have an open top so the creek surface water is simply overflowing over the cistern's side walls, or does it have a closed top so water is entering through an inlet of some type, somewhere below the surface?

The best method to prevent the filters from removing so much debris, will be to reduce the amount of debris that is entering.

Suggest posting drawings and/or photos of the current configuration including the inlet position in relation to the creek layout and depth. Perhaps we may be able to offer suggestions on modifications to substantially reduce the quantity of debris that is entering

 

[AlaskaJohn]

thanks for all the information and for your time. i really appreciate it.

i'd like to end this discussion

thanks again.

john