Can you use modified thin set with Kerdi and Ditra?: Yes if you use Ardex

[JohnfrWhipple]

Love your passion Roberto. When we meet first three rounds on me!

Cheers Mate. So fun to watch from the other side...

 

[Eurob]

Thanks , John . If we meet , I am gone get drunk -- for the first time -- .

The next rounds will be on me !

Cheers Mate !

 

[Sponsor]

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

How close are you to Toronto? I'm flying out in a couple months to wrap up a three year steamer build for a buddy.

 

[Eurob]

5 to 6 hours drive . We can go together sightseeing . LOL

 

[Eurob]

After 15 hours of curing time , none of them are cured .

To my surprise the one which was supposed to be almost cured -- GraniRapid -- is the worst .

I am stunned . Second time around .

I will try to evaluate them a little more specifically . Later .

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

As much as I would like to throw back a few beers with ya. 5-6 hours is a deal breaker! Even 2.5-3 is not going to work. Easy to forget how huge Canada really is!

 

[ShowerDude]

this is a great front row view.....

 

[Eurob]

As much as I would like to throw back a few beers with ya. 5-6 hours is a deal breaker! Even 2.5-3 is not going to work. Easy to forget how huge Canada really is!

If I have time and you are available , I wouldn't mind . Flying is easier , but we have to rent a car to go around .

Maybe it will work out . You are covering a great distance , the rest is on me -- shaking hands -- .

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

After 15 hours of curing time , none of them are cured .

To my surprise the one which was supposed to be almost cured -- GraniRapid -- is the worst .

I am stunned . Second time around .

I will try to evaluate them a little more specifically . Later .

Roberto I started noticing this with some old KErdi DS installs. By my test results cure time starts at about hour 48. That is when you will see it kicking off....

But what do I know? I'm just a "garage Style tester" - You should have done this in a lab.... lol that is where you went wrong.....

I love these tests of yours - thanks again for your dedication to our trade. We are like the Consumer Reports Mag.... Independent testing. That is my favourite. Do you have a paypal account? I would love to help cover some of your costs for your purchased materials.

This is the best schooling ever. Real world testing by a tile master. Freaken love it!

 

[Eurob]

this is a great front row view.....

I will try to make it as much as possible to the point , RSCB .

Temperature -- 19 degrees Celsius .

Humidity -- 82 % .

Maybe my reader is off , I will go and buy one , to make sure .

I will not change the conditions , after all , it needs to work and evaluate in less then ideal conditions . Let's see how long it takes if there is no air movement present . Or should I ?

Recommendations are not to use any '' accelerating '' device for proper cure .

It is curing on it's own or with help from .... depending on the situation .

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

.....Recommendations are not to use any '' accelerating '' device for proper cure ......

That is a huge tip. This one time in Band Camp I used a portable heater with blower to speed things up. Talk about a $%^&ing disaster. Kerdi DS Membrane crinkled like no ones business. Had to do a do over!

When I set my NobleDeck outside on my exterior deck (in Decemeber !!! lol) I had the top side covered with poly (kinda of like making the deck space a green house) and the bottom side heated with space heaters (my rads). I used some plywood, extra NobleSeal TS and some rigid foam to help isolate the membrane from the cold. That time I used 254 for setting and it took a good 3-4 days to kick in the cold. Temps right done low near 10-14 degrees for the curing....

For me gentle air movement is key. And hoarding the room to keep some heat in is nice. No heat blowing across the membranes!

 

[Eurob]

Don't worry John , the cost of the materials is the last thing on my mind .

It is -- with some regret -- disappointing at this time to not do a random check -- every year -- of the curing time of the usual used mortars . See what changed and how reliable and consistent they are .

 

[Eurob]

That is a huge tip. This one time in Band Camp I used a portable heater with blower to speed things up. Talk about a $%^&ing disaster. Kerdi DS Membrane crinkled like no ones business. Had to do a do over!

For me gentle air movement is key. And hoarding the room to keep some heat in is nice. No heat across the membranes!

Yeah , now that it has 15 hours under stable conditions , I can't throw an '' extreme '' in the mix .

I could add a small fan -- pointing to the ceiling , not a direct flow -- , but I will give it few days to see how the cure progresses . After all the mortar is trapped .

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

Roberto - this is exactly why I have worked out the on site test rigs. We can check our products on a regular basis. Compare data and see how things are working.

Hats off again. Looking forward to your findings. I will trust these more than any "Paid For" Study and the like.

 

[Eurob]

GraniRapid data sheet -- you can walk on after 3 to 4 hours.


I can easily dent the surface with a pencil , the deeper layer is soft . After 15 hours . Forget walking on it . The reading is at the perimeter . The chemical reaction in GraniRapid cannot be stopped . I've seen melted plastic bucket -- full mixed bucket -- from the heat it produces .

Here are the dents

 

[Eurob]

Hey guys , if you want to talk without the ignored one , we can start a conversation .

We don't need an S man or his angle on this .

It seems that he doesn't understand more than the KA at the S . To make it worse , he is going to seminars for more . Wonder why -- a retiree -- they will give him access to internal data .

Who knows ? All you need is a connection , the rest he will tell you all about , no hands on experience .

Stay out of it -- we don't care about the S angle or yours .

Start your own threads and preach the methods you learn , but never use . Good luck .

 

[Eurob]

Alright , I will pend for now some of the findings , but .........


This is the condition of the GR from the installed moment to after 24 hours.

It is like I said stunning -- worst way possible -- .

Last one is after 24 hours and under the skin on top , the mortar is soft . Closer to the glass and under it , it is soft as I would just mix it .

 

[Eurob]

I will get to more findings with an update tomorrow .

For now , I am really impressed by the Ardex mortars -- curing signs under glass -- .

They both -- X5 and X77 -- show signs of cure , more the X5 than the X77 .

The X77 on the other hand has no efflorescence present on it vs. the X5 which has plenty . The samples on top of the blobs show it .

Those are after a 30 hours mark .

None of the other mortars used -- Nanolight , Ultralight , 255, 254 , K&K and GR -- show signs of cure under the glass at the 30h mark . Not even at the edges .

 

[Eurob]

Alright , I will try to break it down a little more .....

Scratch coat -- bond to glass -- is as follows -- I will use a best (1) to worst (8) list --

1) Granirapid Mapei
2) X77 Ardex
3)Nanolight BASF
4)x5 Ardex
5)254Platinum Laticrete
6)Kerabond & Keralastic Mapei
7)255 Multimax Laticrete
8) Ultralite Mapei

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

Alright , I will try to break it down a little more .....

Scratch coat -- bond to glass -- is as follows -- I will use a best (1) to worst (8) list --

1) Granirapid Mapei
2) X77 Ardex
3)Nanolight BASF
4)x5 Ardex
5)254Platinum Laticrete
6)Kerabond & Keralastic Mapei
7)255 Multimax Laticrete
8) Ultralite Mapei

How are these ranked now. Was this your judgement at the start. Or the most expensive first.

Interesting observation about the Ardex outperforming the others. I once walked into Fontile where a Schluter rep was debating outside tile jobs with Anne the counter lady. Later I joined the conversation and I was told by the Schluter rep that the Germany's have better technology and he mentioned Ardex and Kinssel I think as premium products.

Fontile sells Mapei. No Ardex No Kinssel.

A year later Josef from Quick Drain USA asked me if I tried Ardex X32.

These where the first trickles of info alerting me to the German thin-set taking root here in Canada and US.