Can the toilet be used as a cleanout for waste line in concrete?

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & ' started by ACiPhone, Jun 30, 2009.

  1. ACiPhone

    ACiPhone New Member

    Messages:
    3
    I am adding a bathroom to my house where the garage (storage) used to be.. Concrete floor... had to cut it and run the waste line for the bathroom.
    The toilet is the starting point for the waste line, and goes about 2' then has a 22 angle in it then straight for about 40'-50', before it has a 45 bend in it, and then it has a double angle cleanout.
    The waste line will be buried in concrete for first 20' then it will be in the drawl space....

    My question is... Do I need to add a cleanout near the toilet, or can the toilet be used as a cleanout? Will the inspector accept it? This is in King County (un-incorporated Bellevue) area in WA.

    Thank you!
  2. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,992
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    In King County, you need a cleanout within five feet.
    The toilet is not considered a cleanout.

    You can run the vent with the same size pipe, and put the cleanout on the vent. As long as it's within five feet too.
  3. MACPLUMB 777

    MACPLUMB 777 TROJAN WORLDWIDE SALES RP

    Messages:
    679
    Location:
    Houston, Texas, United States
    Toilet as cleanout

    Vent what vent ? ?
    The op never said he was going to vent everybody knows all you have to do
    is be able to glue two pieces of pipe together and you are a plumber
  4. ACiPhone

    ACiPhone New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Thanks Terry... Someone told me the same thing to put a cleanout thru the vent..., but had a incensed plumber tell me that the toilet can also be considered as cleanout.

    I have a vent in the line (about 2') from the toilet flange. It's a 4" waste line, so I'll have to go with a 4"x"4"x3" Wye as a vent and cleanout....

    So the cleanout will be in the wall? I was trying to avoid that, that's why I was asking the question...
    So there is no way around it?
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2009
  5. ACiPhone

    ACiPhone New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Haha.. I'm laughing.... Believe me... I don't want to be a plumber... Anyways, I had plumbers tell me different things, and I wanted to see if Terry or other people on here can tell me if the toilet can be used as a cleanout if need be, to avoid adding a cleanout in the wall..... but thanks for your input......

    About the vent... do you mean the Fan in the ceiling? lol joking...
    I do have a vent already in there, but I was trying to avoid having a vent in the wall... doesn't look pretty... and since a licensed plumber told me the toilet could be used as a cleanout... sometimes inspectors are ok with it.....
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2009
  6. shacko

    shacko Master Plumber-Gas Fitter

    Messages:
    561
    Location:
    Rosedale, Md
    Vent In Wall

    Depending on how wide your wall is, you may be able to use a test tee for your c.o. and put a chrome c.o. cover on it, should look fine. :)
  7. Doherty Plumbing

    Doherty Plumbing Journeyman & Gas Fitter

    Messages:
    810
    Location:
    Penticton, BC
    I don't know what code is where you're at but if you're just concerned with having something that's close to code and works well then using the toilet flange as a cleanout isn't a bad idea.

    I can't tell you how many houses I've been into where I need to pull toilets to auger out the sewer main. It's a bit of a pain in the ass but it works well.
  8. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,605
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    co

    ANY plumber who says the toilet can be the cleanout has NEVER actually tried to snake a line like that, himself.
  9. kingsotall

    kingsotall Plunger/TurdPuncher

    The toilet¿ Or the flange¿ 'Cuz yeah, a toilet would not be an advisable cleanout. Last one done, my buddy did look like he was working hard at it... :p
  10. Doherty Plumbing

    Doherty Plumbing Journeyman & Gas Fitter

    Messages:
    810
    Location:
    Penticton, BC
    I hope you realize that when most people talk about the toilet being a cleanout they mean the flange after they remove the toilet.

    And if you're saying that the flange isn't a good cleanout then I'd say you've never actually tried it. Because I've done it probably 400 times (literally). It's not always the best solution but it does work well.
  11. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,450
    Location:
    Connecticut
    I would agree that pulling a toilet can be done to snake a line and I have done it quite a few times myself when there was no other access. However, The work may not be performed as well as if it was done through a full size cleanout and pulling the toilet adds extra cost to the job...

    If you want to pay extra I have no problem with that...:eek:
  12. kingsotall

    kingsotall Plunger/TurdPuncher

    Closed drum machine please! :)
  13. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,605
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    toilet

    I obviously mean using the pipe after removing the toilet. But unless you have a snake with a very "wimpy" cable, it is not going to make the "S" turn into the bend and then down into the stack without some real work and luck. Most strong cables are going to try to make a "U" turn and go up the stack, unless there is a lot more distance than the common 12" between the two.
  14. kingsotall

    kingsotall Plunger/TurdPuncher

    The one I was mentioning was in a church and it was on level ground. A stack could pose some problems for sure.
  15. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,450
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Yes, it would be a closed drum machine with a lined 11/16" cable using a whip leader ahead of the blades to find direction. Hardly a wimpy cable. I really have done it quite a few times and never had the problems you speak of...:cool:

    [​IMG]
  16. Doherty Plumbing

    Doherty Plumbing Journeyman & Gas Fitter

    Messages:
    810
    Location:
    Penticton, BC
    Have you ever actually tried to do this? Because you couldn't be more wrong. I can get a 1/2" steel cable down most toilet flanges....

    The size of head you're using is really what determines how well it goes.

    Like I said I have done this literally probably 400 times so I'm not just talking about my rear-end here. I have plenty of experience to speak from.
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2009
  17. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,605
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    cable

    I use a 1/2" cable for 2" sink drains, NOT a 3" or 4" main line. That is a job for a 3/4" inner core cable, which does not like to make a short "S" turn, but LOVES to cut difficult roots.
  18. SewerRatz

    SewerRatz Illinois Licensed Plumber

    Messages:
    1,705
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Well I have pulled many water closets to snake a main line, due to hidden cleanouts, that the home owners do not want me looking for. But Illinois plumbing code also states a water closet is not to be pulled and used as a clean out. Below is right from the Illinois Plumbing code book.

    Section 890.430 Cleanout Equivalent

    Fixture Trap. A fixture trap, readily removable and without disturbing concealed plumbing or requiring fixture removal, is acceptable as a cleanout equivalent, if there is no more than one (1) 90 degree bend on the line to be rodded. A water closet is not considered a cleanout equivalent​
  19. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,605
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    code

    That just proves that we knew how to write a good code in Chicago. Any plumber who does not know how, and where, to install a cleanout is an "construction plumber" who has absolutely no concept of the problems he is creating by leaving them out.
  20. kingsotall

    kingsotall Plunger/TurdPuncher

    Truth hurts and that one is painful HJ.
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