7 month old 600' well has silt and sand still?????

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jon chilpigian

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I have a well that was drilled 7 months ago down to 600'. We have ran several 24 hour test straight off the well and have filled our 2500 gallon tank numerous times to try to clear the water in the 7 months. I have cleaned out of the bottom of my tank almost 12" of sand and silt 6 times. Just did it yesterday and as soon as I turned the well on to refill the tank it started filling with brown water and I could see the sand forming on the bottom. I only filled it half way and the water was so murky I couldn't see the pipe more than 3 inches going down. I have had the well company that drilled come out and they have told me it is what it is and there is nothing wrong. But they have their money so I wouldn't expect anything else from them. Could this be the way is and should I just filter the well to the tank or should I get a second opinion. This my first time writing in a forum so take it easy on me please.... Ha Ha
Thank you in advance
Jon
Oh and I forgot to add the water line is at about 300' and the pump is set at 450'.
 

Craigpump

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Gotta have a completion report.....

There could be insufficient casing
Broken casing
Casing not driven into the bedrock
Well could be drilled into sandstone
Could be dirty fractures
Faulty screen/wrong gravel pack

We have had very good luck using Lakos Sub K sand seperators, they do a great job of promoting pump life by keeping the sand out of the pump.
 

jon chilpigian

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I do have a well report but I'm not sure what that will tell me what is causing the sediment and the silt coming up? I'm just not sure I believe what they're telling me that there is not a problem. I just want to fix the problem one way or another. Not sure if this will help but here's a picture of the report if you can tell me anything from it.
 

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Valveman

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Can't see the rest of the log. Does it say anything about gravel pack? With a 10.6" and 8.75" bore using 5" casing and screen there should be plenty of room for a gravel pack. Also need to see what size slots or perfs in the screen?
 

jon chilpigian

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sorry. here's a pic of those specs. hopefully you can see it. I can try another pic if not. It would take me forever to type all the info. ha ha. Thanks again for the help
 

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Craigpump

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Not an expert on screened / gravel packed wells, but it seems the well might need more development
 

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I don't know if you can ever get a well like that developed and cleaned up. 1/4" pea gravel doesn't make a good filter pack. We use silica sand for gravel. The gravel is the filter for a well like this. So the gravel needs to be small enough to hold back the sand. Usually a sample of the formation sand is inspected and the screen size and gravel are sized to filter the formation sand. With .032 slots and 1/4" pea gravel I doubt that this well will ever stop making sand.

Since you have a lot of hole below the pump a Lakos Sub K filter on the pump may keep the sand from being pumped to the surface. But the Lakos just flushes the sand to the bottom of the well and if it makes that much sand the well will probably fill up to the bottom of the pump is a matter of time.

That was a very deep and I am sure expensive well not to have sized the screen and gravel correctly.
 

jon chilpigian

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It makes sense what you are saying. I just installed a sand filter for my pool and it's basically the same concept. So now the big question is would you get a second opinion from another well/pump company or would you just install a sediment/silt filter between the well and storage tank? And will that work on clearing the water up? It's just nasty taking a shower in brownish water. lol
 

Craigpump

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I agree with Cary, doesn't sound as though they did a proper sieve analysis on the returns and the wrong material was used to pack the well.

You don't want a filter between the pump and tank. Ever.

If you can't get the well cleaned up, pull the pump and put a Sub K over the pump, sure it will eventually fill the well with sand, but it will prevent that abrasive material from eating up your pump.
 

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Jon

I've been following your story and have looked at your well log you posted. A couple of questions and some comments.

First, I assume that your in Cali, and good chance in the Central Valley. As everyone knows California is under a severe multi-year drought. I have never drilled in California, but I have visited twice in the past two years after having requests to drill there. I decided I wasn't interested in sending a rig there, for a number of reasons. However there have been many people jump on the drilling band wagon there. There are people that may not have the experience that they should have, and there are people that aren't concerned with the quality of their work. However there are still a great number of qualified drillers that know the local conditions and will do quality work.

There are parts of the Central Valley being pumped so hard that the ground is subsiding over one inch per month!

You had a 10" hole drilled with 5" PVC casing installed. The bottom portion of the hole was 8 3/4" diameter. The annular space was then backfilled with 1/4" gravel as a filter pack. Am I right so far?

Now some questions. Is the driller you used a local driller that has been in business in the same location for a number of years? Or is he a Johnny-come-lately, with little or no local knowledge, but he was available now?

I assume the well was drilled direct mud rotary. Is this correct? How much time did the driller spend developing the well after placing the gravel pack? Did the driller save any sand samples and run any sieve analysis on the samples? How long did your driller take to drill your well, start to finish?

At this point I don't have enough information to tell you if you have a well, or if you have a really deep post hole.
 

Boycedrilling

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It is possible that not all the drilling mud was been removed from the well and additional developement is needed.

I will be surprised if the sand problem goes away on its own. I have also successfully used the Lakos sub-k on existing wells that continually produce sand.

I am installing one on a local city well. It is a 50 year old well. It has a 125 hp 500 gpm submersible pump. The city has elected not to to what would be necessary to fix the sand problem. The Lakos will be a stop-gap that hopefully will get them at least a few years until they replace this well.

Last week I went on a service call to an existing domestic well that is producing sand. The well was drilled by another driller 8 years ago, and is completed open bottom in a gravel formation. We are going to install a sediment filter above ground so we can monitor and quantify the sand production. Then we will determine a long term solution for this well.
 

Reach4

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In the picture below, the Lakos SandMaster is before the pressure tank. It looks like they are showing the pressure switch separated from the pressure tank, which could cause rapid cycling. I understand that Jon does not have a pressure switch or pressure tank on the fill for his cistern.

Is there maybe an over-pressure pressure switch that latches off that could shut things down if the sand filter clogged?
homesandsolutions.jpg
 

Reach4

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I wonder if somebody could make an air lift pump system that could go around a 4-inch pump to lift the sand that the SUB-K drops.
 

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I don't think an air lift system would have enough velocity to lift sand from that depth.

I also worry about all those drillers showing up in California because of the drought. Getting rich quick and drilling good wells don't go together well.

If he were in Texas, one call to the licensing board and the driller would have a renewed interest in fixing that well.
 

jon chilpigian

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Wow thank you everyone for your answers and concern about my problem. let me answer a couple of questions. The driller we used has been in business for along time. And they are local. I was told by several people that they were not the best but they were not the worst. We went with them because at the time we were not needing a well, but we knew we were getting close. And the company we went with was the only one that would put us on a 8-12 month waiting list Without a downpayment. We didn't want to put any money down because we did not know if we were going to need a well or not. Long story short 7 months later they called us and asked if we need a well drilled still and we did not at the time. Two weeks later our well collapsed. So they drilled. It took them a total of about 4 to 5 days to drill the hole. But I could not tell you if they did any analyzing on the soil or the contents that were in the hole. It did not seem like they did. It took them awhile to finish up the well a total of almost 4 weeks after I had to make several phone calls and ask when it was going to be finished. My biggest concern is they are so busy that they're just trying to whip this out as fast as they can. And not doing it the correct way. I know the company has the experience but the problem is do they have the patience with as busy as they are to do it correctly? They definitely did not keep us informed of what was happening in the process. I was pretty pissed that I'm spending $25,000 and I have to ask every other day what is going on and what the process is. I finally shut up figuring they are the experts and they should know what they are doing. At least I thought so?
 
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jon chilpigian

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Jon

I've been following your story and have looked at your well log you posted. A couple of questions and some comments.

First, I assume that your in Cali, and good chance in the Central Valley. As everyone knows California is under a severe multi-year drought. I have never drilled in California, but I have visited twice in the past two years after having requests to drill there. I decided I wasn't interested in sending a rig there, for a number of reasons. However there have been many people jump on the drilling band wagon there. There are people that may not have the experience that they should have, and there are people that aren't concerned with the quality of their work. However there are still a great number of qualified drillers that know the local conditions and will do quality work.

There are parts of the Central Valley being pumped so hard that the ground is subsiding over one inch per month!

You had a 10" hole drilled with 5" PVC casing installed. The bottom portion of the hole was 8 3/4" diameter. The annular space was then backfilled with 1/4" gravel as a filter pack. Am I right so far?

Now some questions. Is the driller you used a local driller that has been in business in the same location for a number of years? Or is he a Johnny-come-lately, with little or no local knowledge, but he was available now?

I assume the well was drilled direct mud rotary. Is this correct? How much time did the driller spend developing the well after placing the gravel pack? Did the driller save any sand samples and run any sieve analysis on the samples? How long did your driller take to drill your well, start to finish?

At this point I don't have enough information to tell you if you have a well, or if you have a really deep post hole.

Thanks Boyce for the comment. It sounds to me that I need to have a second opinion on the the structure and development of the well. I just couldn't believe that this is normal and the way it is. The whole process was not a very good experience.
I was telling my wife last night that I hate this. I know how to do a lot of things. I was a carpenter for years and a auto mechanic for 25+ years. And I can usually call BS when someone is trying to tell me BS. But unfortunately I know nothing about drilling a well and it kills me not knowing if I'm being BS'd from them or if they are telling me the truth.
 

jon chilpigian

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Can I ask a simple question that I guess I should have asked in the first place? What is considered a normal amount of sand and silt that you should be getting from a well after it's been running for several months.
Also I would like to add that the reason I don't know much about this subject is we have only been at this property for 2 years and I have never owned property with a well until now. When we bought the property we were hoping to get about 5 years out of the well but it only made it a little over 1 year.
And yes Boyce we are in the Central Valley and it definitely is a drilling frenzy here! And you were dead on everything else.

They say we went from about a 5' drop a year to they are seeing 15' a year drop. But we are getting some nice rain this year so far.
 
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