Removing sand from 32' dug well

[SmdCarpenter]

I've just failed to find a good photo set or plan for one everything Google found for me was more industrial in nature. Certainly open to the idea.


One of my rain barrels has kind of a window mesh covered opening might try shooting some water in there and seeing how it filters.

 

[Reach4]

I've just failed to find a good photo set or plan for one everything Google found for me was more industrial in nature. Certainly open to the idea.


One of my rain barrels has kind of a window mesh covered opening might try shooting some water in there and seeing how it filters.

I am thinking more like having the pipe elbow down to maybe a 2 inch dip tube pipe down to a foot or so from the bottom. Gravity retains the sand at the bottom. The water exit would be at/near the top draining water back into the well.

http://www.drillyourownwell.com/mud-pump-with-portable-mud-pit.htm

The pit could be a box similar to this (remove the z)
Youtube sm9WJGMWz3U
see time about 3:30. But instead of the suction hose, have a chute that dumps the overflow water back into the well. So you are pumping into one end of the box. Maybe have baffles/riffles to help keep the heavy stuff at one end, and let water with less solids to flow back into the well.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[SmdCarpenter]

Thanks for the link, I might try to knock something together with scrap plywood I have in the barn. A bucket with holes drilled in it set in the middle of the box might work for my el-cheapo ace hardware sump pump to sit in and then I can use it to pump the water back down the well via a garden hose.

I wonder how long it would take the sand to settle if I let the zoeller pump into a few extra Rubbermaid trash cans I have. Might give that a try as well.

 

[Reach4]

Sand settles pretty fast. Try some, with water, in an empty mayonnaise jar with a lid. Shake it up, and watch it settle.

 

[SmdCarpenter]

Update #3

Pumped sand and water from 9:30 to 4:00 today, used my two 40 pound rain barrels and a 35 gallon trash can as settlement containers. Pumped with the zoeller 152 pump moving it occasionally and plopping it down into the barrels, let sit for 20 to 30 minutes. Used a small 1/6hp sump pump to pump it back in making sure not to send sand back in. Probably repeated the cycle 7 times over the course of the day.

Between the three I pulled out enough sand to likely fill the trash can once (filled the trash can 1/4 of the way, emptied and filled the barrels to halfway twice). If I had the time I would probably do this three more days and really empty the thing but as is the wife is just getting back from out of town and I need to get water back on to the house so will give it one more day and then get the house hooked back up again using a new shallow jet pump I have(water depth is at 25 1/2' and I am at sea level so it should work with one pipe sucking...otherwise can use two pipes and use as a true jet pump).

 

[Reach4]

Thanks for the update. It sounds productive.

It is good that you are calling it sand rather than mud.

 

[SmdCarpenter]

Update 4:
Powered through pumping another 40 gallons of sand out today in four hours. Well seems to be refilling faster now so sand must have been partially blocking weep holes.

Working nights next week so going to pump again during the day on Tuesday and Wednesday md then have to call it quits for now.

I decided to order a Zoeller submersible utility pump with screen with 33' head lift to use instead of the jet pump I have. Looks like it can be placed closer to the bottom and disturb the sand less. Going to wire it into my existing pressure switch hooked to my pressure tank. Doesn't need as much clearance from the bottom as the deep well submersible I had before is the reason for using it rather than a standard well pump. Putting a check valve in right before the pump so I don't lose the pipe volume of water back into the well.

 

[Valveman]

33' of head is only 14 PSI. That pump will not be able to build enough pressure to work with a pressure switch. You are still going to need the jet pump.

 

[SmdCarpenter]

Guess I will give the jet pump a shot then and cancel the order on the other pump , did some reading and you are correct on psi. Really wanted to avoid the jet noise and lost placement depth

I see there are some methods of letting a submersible deep well pump run horizontal with an elbow...might check that out if the old goulds submersible I have still works.

Edit: Had an idea, seems like it might work. I wanted the better than 25' head of the submersible sump style pump(it can go to 33' ) , I have a shallow well jet pumps here that are new in the box that came free to me. Couldn't I connect them the sump and jet to my existing tank pressure switch and just use the jet pump as a booster by having my Inlet pipe from the sump in the well pump into the jet (located inside right next to the pressure tank) and then the jet into the pressure tank?

 

[Valveman]

You can feed the jet pump with the sump pump and tie them to the same pressure switch so they run at the same time. But the jet pump shouldn't need the boost from the sump pump.

You could also use the sump pump to fill a cistern. Let the sediment settle in the cistern, and use the jet pump to boost from the cistern to the house.

 

[SmdCarpenter]

Had the day off today so I played with this some more.

I tested my old submersible Goulds deep well pump in a bucket and it seemed to work fine, I set it up with PVC zip tied to the bottom and an elbow at the outlet as I saw in an old post on this forum and lowered it to the bottom of the well setup horizontally.

It seems to work fine for the first 10 to 15 gallons or so run out of hose and then starts to slow down and eventually trickles to nothing. What is it odd is when I check the tank pressure gauge it was still reading at 45 and not dropping at all to cut the pump on again(I had the switch cover off and could see the contacts were not engaged so pump was not on).

I hooked up to the hose valve I had right after the pressure tank manifold and watched the contacts while filling two 5 gallon buckets and it seems to be working properly the first few cycles, only odd thing is pressure gauge cuts the pump back on at just under 40 psi and off at 50psi.

My tank is only 2 years old but it seems my problems may be tank related now, the pressure switch seems to work fine as far as cutting in and out and I checked all the contacts and power feed in and out are working properly. It seems as though the tank isn't dropping in pressure quickly enough for some reason.

When the outdoor hose was out of water but tank was still reading 45 or I turned off hose and turned off pump breaker, pressure on gauge was holding at 45. I opened hose valve below the pressure tank right after the manifold and got only about 3/4 of a gallon of water out as pressure then dropped to 0. Closed valve, turned pump breaker back on , pressure switch worked as it as supposed to and pressure went back to 50, I was able to fill two buckets of water then with normal pressure(didn't have more buckets handy otherwise would have kept going.

I removed pressure switch at one point and checked nipple and it was clear, it seems to operate as it should.

My tank was preset at 38 and I just noticed the sticker is still on valve so it has never been changed, definitely checking that first thing in the morning. Looks like I also need to change my cut off pressure from 50 to 60. No idea why it seems to get stuck at 45 though and not drop pressure to call the pump back on, I can visually see the pressure switch contact not engaging and checked the contacts with a multimeter so I know the pump was not getting power when the water was at a trickle. Tank felt empty when I drained it so I don't think it is waterlogged.

 

[VAWellDriller]

put pn a new gauge while you are at it...be sure of everything you are seeing

 

[SmdCarpenter]

I did as vawelldigger suggested and replaced the gauge, I also replaced the pressure switch which was indeed acting up. Most likely a victim of my very sandy well.

I set the prsssure tank pressure when drained to 38psi using a high quality tire pressure gauge , new pressure switch is set at 40/60.

When I turn on the pump breaker the pressure switch engages, well fills to 60 psi everything goes well. I have great pressure for the first 10 psi(maybe 5 to 8 gallons of water) or so and then the pressure quality drops. Water still comes out and is usable , I was able t take a 10 minute shower, hose has water coming out of it predictably just not very good pressure. Pump cuts in at 40psi when it finally gets there as it should, well had plenty of water. Seems like there is an issue with the tank not providing proper pressure unless the tank is full, the pump has provided the water just fine and filled the tank, everything works great from 60 psi down to 48 psi or so and then Pressure from faucet or hose drops (waters still coming out just less pressure !and it is slow to push the rest of the water out of the tank before the pump cuts back in again at 40 and brings the pressure back up to 60.

Tank is under warranty still as it is only two years old..would prefer to see if their is any other diagnostic stuff I can do before going through the hassle of disconnecting it and getting a replacement.

 

[Valveman]

40 PSI is almost half the pressure of 60 PSI. This is why constant pressure systems like with a Cycle Stop Valve gives so much better pressure. A CSV would hold the pressure at about 55 PSI constant for as long as you are in the shower, even if you took a month long shower. That is also why most people prefer a smaller tank with a CSV. With a little tank the pressure would only be at 40 for a few seconds and then up to 55 PSI steady for the rest of the time water is being used. You would have a constant 55 PSI before you even got the shower temp adjusted and get in.

 

[Reach4]

When I turn on the pump breaker the pressure switch engages, well fills to 60 psi everything goes well. I have great pressure for the first 10 psi(maybe 5 to 8 gallons of water) or so and then the pressure quality drops. Water still comes out and is usable , I was able t take a 10 minute shower, hose has water coming out of it predictably just not very good pressure. Pump cuts in at 40psi when it finally gets there as it should, well had plenty of water.

During the time when the water is just usable but not good, what does the pressure gauge do? Maybe record a pressure gauge video during a shower.

If you are going to be pumping sand for a while, you might look into the Lakos Sandmaster. Unlike most filters, that is designed to go before the pressure tank and pressure switch.

 

[SmdCarpenter]

Reach4 - I am definitely going to get a sand filter to put between my inlet and my pressure tank, the Lakos ones look nice just not sure on my budget accommodating it quite yet.

Valveman- I will definitely consider a CSV at some point, one the thing that concerns me about my tank potentially is that the pressure doesn't really come back up even after the pumps kicks back on. Water volume stays the same and I ran the hose for fifteen minutes straight without a problem of water supply.

If I turn the water off for a bit and then start it up again pressure will be back. when I first put the tank in i would notice the pressure drop between cycles but the pressure would return when the pump kicked back on. Now once the pressure goes it fails to return.

 

[Valveman]

Pumping a lot of sand will do that to a pump. The pump has to be able to supply the amount of volume and pressure needed. But a big tank is just an additional load for it to fill. If you are using say 5 GPM, the pump would have to produce at least 6 GPM to increase the pressure because it is having to refill the tank and supply the amount you are using. The larger the tank and the weaker the pump, the longer it takes for the pressure to increase.