How Remove 3" Drop Pipe From Well?

[Qwertyjjj]

This is an old disused well but I have no idea whether there is still a pump at the bottom or not.
I was thinking about using it for irrigation.
Whenever it was abandoned, someone seems to have put a 3" white PVC pipe inside it (it is a 6" metal well).

Any ideas how I can remove this pipe and then check with a threaded pipe grabber?
I can move the white pvc pipe a bit side to side but it does not lift up.

 

[Craigpump]

I would take a piece of 1/2" rebar, put a 100 degree bend in one end, a closed loop on the other then heat up the tip of the bend so it would melt through the pvc. Wait for everything to cool, then hook my hoist truck to it and start pulling.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Qwertyjjj]

I would take a piece of 1/2" rebar, put a 100 degree bend in one end, a closed loop on the other then heat up the tip of the bend so it would melt through the pvc. Wait for everything to cool, then hook my hoist truck to it and start pulling.

and if you don't have a hoist truck?

 

[Reach4]

and you don't have an engine hoist, and you don't have some blocks and a big pry bar, and you don't have a ladder and a ratchet strap and you don't have a high-lift jack and you don't have some strong friends to lift? Guess you have to use your hydraulic excavator.

 

[Boycedrilling]

Sound the depth inside the PVC and then in-between the pvc and steel casing. Tape a piece of 1/2" rebar or rod to a 100 ft+ tape and lower it till it tags bottom. Water to the top of the pvc has me concerned.

How deep are the wells around you? It can be common in some areas to install a PVC liner in the well after drilling it, although usually the liner will be 4" or 4 1/2' PVC.

Craig pumps suggestion for grabbing and pulling the PVC is an excellent one. I hadn't thought of that before. You would need to get rid of a foot or two of water inside the PVC first, so the steel rod wouldn't cool off too much, before melting a hole in the PVC.

 

[Qwertyjjj]

Sound the depth inside the PVC and then in-between the pvc and steel casing. Tape a piece of 1/2" rebar or rod to a 100 ft+ tape and lower it till it tags bottom. Water to the top of the pvc has me concerned.

How deep are the wells around you? It can be common in some areas to install a PVC liner in the well after drilling it, although usually the liner will be 4" or 4 1/2' PVC.

Craig pumps suggestion for grabbing and pulling the PVC is an excellent one. I hadn't thought of that before. You would need to get rid of a foot or two of water inside the PVC first, so the steel rod wouldn't cool off too much, before melting a hole in the PVC.

Ladder and ratchet strap could work but guess I have to drill a hole in the PVC and thread the strap through that?
The normal metal wells around here are around 100ft deep.
The other one we have has no PVC liner at all, most don't nowadays as it isn't necessary but this one is over 25 years old so maybe an older technique?
I thought it might be rainwater but it never evaporates even in August.

 

[Reach4]

Ladder and ratchet strap could work but guess I have to drill a hole in the PVC and thread the strap through that?

I was thinking of hooking the strap through the 1/2 inch rebar tool that Boycedrilling described making. But your idea of cutting a hole or slot in the PVC sounds interesting. You would want the hole deep enough to not tear out. I don't know what tool that would take to make the cut. Maybe a very hot galvanized nipple on an ell could melt a hole. Boycedrilling has experience. I don't.

 

[Qwertyjjj]

I was thinking of hooking the strap through the 1/2 inch rebar tool that Boycedrilling described making. But your idea of cutting a hole or slot in the PVC sounds interesting. You would want the hole deep enough to not tear out. I don't know what tool that would take to make the cut. Maybe a very hot galvanized nipple on an ell could melt a hole. Boycedrilling has experience. I don't.

Can't just use a drillbit in multiple places? Or a multitool to cut something squareish?

 

[Craigpump]

The problem with a drill is, you have very limited room to work.

I've retrieved liner may different ways depending on how it was installed.

With a nice clean cut, I've used deep pattern couplings glued on to a short piece and onto the liner then pulled.

I've run an old pump in on steel pipe then dumped a coffee can can of crushed stone in to create a "bite", then pulled.

On liner that was set with threaded coupling, I have a short piece with a threaded adapter.

I also used a tool that had fingers that would grab inside the liner at the joints...

You can always dig down around the steel, cut it off, cut the liner nice n square then glue on a coupling...

Or, use a hook.

All of the above methods are going to require skill, confidence, proper materials and tools that may be beyond your abilities.

You may find its bound in and won't pull at all....

 

[Reach4]

With a nice clean cut, I've used deep pattern couplings glued on to a short piece and onto the liner then pulled.

I was going to suggest gluing a coupler on, after drying and cleaning the top few inches. I don't know what a deep pattern coupling is, but I can guess. Do you think a schedule 4o coupling primed and glued quickly, and then allowed to sit for an extended period would be adequate?

 

[Texas Wellman]

Rent a ~185 CFM air compressor and several hundred feet of hose. Put the hose down in the well inside the pvc (weight the bottom) as far as it will go. Gently crack the air supply. If water geysers out of the casing (and hopefully the hose stays put) proceed. If no water comes out it's probably not worth fooling with. If you do get water find a 3" grundfos pump (SQ version) and see if it will pump.

 

[Qwertyjjj]

What's the benefit of having a pump at the bottom of the well vs one of those pumps that sits on top of the pressure tank and you just feed a polypipe down to the bottom of the well?

 

[Reach4]

Submersible is more efficient. Quieter. No priming problem. No problem pumping up from more than 30 ft deep.

 

[Qwertyjjj]

I was going to suggest gluing a coupler on, after drying and cleaning the top few inches. I don't know what a deep pattern coupling is, but I can guess. Do you think a schedule 4o coupling primed and glued quickly, and then allowed to sit for an extended period would be adequate?

The top of the pipe is all broken and jagged so would be difficult to cut cleanly or glue on.

This is a 4" PVC white pipe by the way not 3 as I earlier thought.
I just put a hose down it and it stopped going down easily around 50ft. Didn't hit anything along the way.

Why are these pipes inserted at all?

 

[Reach4]

A PVC liner can keep rust, sand, and other sediment out of the pump and pumped water. It could be that the steel pipe only goes down part way. So in that case, the PVC liner/casing could protect against the walls of the well collapsing into the well bore.

If you wanted, there would be a way to square off and extend the PVC pipe. There are ways to clean out a 50 ft PVC pipe.

 

[Qwertyjjj]

I'm starting to think maybe I could use the well for irrigation as I have an old pressure tank I could use. Problem is that deep well pumps are pretty expensive - do they even fit down a 4" pipe?

If rust and sand fall in, can't this end up in the liner anyway as it falls to the bottom and the pump would stir up the water near the bottom anyway?
Just asking as the other well we use (100ft) has no liner but no rust/sediment either.

 

[Reach4]

Yes. Even the standard "4 inch" (about 3.9 inches) should down 4 inch PVC and come back up, from what I understand.

I use one of the slightly smaller 3.75 inch "4 inch" pumps down my 4 ID inch steel casing to allow for some rust.

Expensive? Depends on perspective. What is the freezing situation where you are? You may nee a pitless, or maybe there is already one installed down there. I don't know how a pitless would be installed in a situation like this. Is this hobby irrigation for your flower bed, or will water make you some money?

If rust and sand fall in, can't this end up in the liner anyway as it falls to the bottom and the pump would stir up the water near the bottom anyway?

How far above ground level is the top of the steel casing?

Can much dirt get into the PVC? That depends on what is down there. If you are going to get this thing going right, you should cap up this system to keep new dirt and rodents from going in.

If you have an air compressor that can do a few cuft/min, you could make an air lift pump and let that suck up whatever is down there. That would let you sample the sediment and remove sediment usually.

If you have access to a really big compressor, you can stick a pipe down to the bottom and blow. Make a geyser of water and possible debris.

 

[Qwertyjjj]

Yes. Even the standard "4 inch" (about 3.9 inches) should down 4 inch PVC and come back up, from what I understand.

I use one of the slightly smaller 3.75 inch "4 inch" pumps down my 4 ID inch steel casing to allow for some rust.

I did read in a few places that the well pumps, although they would fit in 4" pipes, should not be installed in 4" pipes as it wouldn;t allow enough water around for cooling quickly enough.

A PVC liner can keep rust, sand, and other sediment out of the pump and pumped water. It could be that the steel pipe only goes down part way. So in that case, the PVC liner/casing could protect against the walls of the well collapsing into the well bore.

If you wanted, there would be a way to square off and extend the PVC pipe. There are ways to clean out a 50 ft PVC pipe.

If the steel only goes some of the way down and the rest is PVC to stop the bore caving in then why not just put PVC pipe all the way down and forget the steel?

Expensive? Depends on perspective. What is the freezing situation where you are? You may nee a pitless, or maybe there is already one installed down there. I don't know how a pitless would be installed in a situation like this. Is this hobby irrigation for your flower bed, or will water make you some money?

Yeah I can't see how either. I would have thought when I put the hose down that within 6-10 ft it would have hit something along the way if an adapter was already there? Plus how do you install pitless in PVC pipe?
It gets to minus 22 fahrenheit in the winter here so anything above 6ft is above the frost line. I'm pretty sure that's why the in use well has a pitless or the pipe is way below the ground (I can't see it).
It's just for a vegetable garden - so looking to get as cheap a pump as possible but it has to pup water up 25-50ft and then across the ground for 50ft.

How far above ground level is the top of the steel casing?

Maybe 12-16"

Can much dirt get into the PVC? That depends on what is down there. If you are going to get this thing going right, you should cap up this system to keep new dirt and rodents from going in.

and that's enough to stop cross contamination with the other well? Throw some bleach in also?

If you have an air compressor that can do a few cuft/min, you could make an air lift pump and let that suck up whatever is down there. That would let you sample the sediment and remove sediment usually.

If you have access to a really big compressor, you can stick a pipe down to the bottom and blow. Make a geyser of water and possible debris.

What's the aim of that though? Just to clear out the debris water? For drinking? or for creating more depth?

 

[Valveman]

I did read in a few places that the well pumps, although they would fit in 4" pipes, should not be installed in 4" pipes as it wouldn;t allow enough water around for cooling quickly enough.

Actually just the opposite is true. As long as the pump is installed above the well screen, the smaller the casing the better cooling the motor will get.

If you want to install a pitless in 4" casing, I would cut the 4" about 7' down and change over to 5" casing up top. That way the pitless doesn't take up so much room in the 4" casing that you can't get the pump in there.

 

[Reach4]

What's the aim of that though? Just to clear out the debris water? For drinking? or for creating more depth?

Either or both. If in the particular well the PVC filled with sand over time, removing the sand every xx years could keep the depth. May not be needed. I have not got my well cleaned. I don't know if it would be useful. I was sure surprised at what I flushed out of the bottom of the water heater. I cannot get rocks or sand added to the WH now because of the filtering I added.