Deleting Tub/Shower for New Shower

I am going to have the fiberglas tub/shower removed completely. I then plan to have the area tiled and only a large shower. I will use the Moen shower head and 4 jets.

My plumber has told me that the existing drain is smaller and I will need to cut into the concrete slab and put a larger shower drain in the center of the new shower.

Has anyone done what I am doing??

yes, this is normal

hi GraceJoan,

for many years now the building codes have required a larger drain pipe for showers than for tubs and tub-showers. If you don't do it, you are not building according to the current code.

While you are still discussing with the plumber, ask him what waterproof membrane he recommends, and secondly, whether he expects it to be placed on the slab first so that the tile-layer can build a sloped floor for the tiles inside it, or whether he requires a sloped floor first so that the tile base is already sloped. This may sound silly, but just wait till he answers.

David

Thanks for responding.

I have a person coming who does re-modeling. He did some sign work for us. He was very concientious etc. He told me that he had recently done what I am asking to be done. At this point, I do not know about "sub" that he uses etc. He mentioned something about pouring a slab, rubber material etc. I don't have the exact details.

I called the plumber who I have used for many things and trust his advice. He is the one who told me about the different size drains and needing to cut into the slab and put the new drain in the center of the new shower. We did not get into the base. He did say that the tile person would definitely require certain things for the base before his tiling. This plumber would/could buy the Moen items and do the necessary plumbing that would be needed for the jets etc.

I feel I have the right questions to ask my re-modeling man when he comes. I will add your question.

Drain size considerations aside, if you're going shower-only, why don't you do the kits that come with the base and walls?

I love the fiberglass deals that just nail right to the studs. No drywall needed!

Even Silestone would probably be easier than tile to both install AND maintain. (I think the solid surface ones need drywall or cement board under).

Terrence

I don't want fiberglas at all. The shower will be enlarged from the space where the tub/shower insert is.

I have Silestone in my kitchen. Great stuff.

I do think I want tile. I have looked at marble and everything else out there. I come back to tile.

I did find out about the new StarQuartz grout. This is certainly an improved product. Waterproof, no sealing, no staining..goes on as easy as regular..no mixing, ready to use. Costs a bit more but worth it.

Thanks for your input........

Beware of any grout that does not require mixing...

You might want to go over to www.johnbridge.com. It is VERY important to make the pan properly, and you'd be surprised at how many people don't do it! You'll get people rant that they've done it that way for decades, and it works. It might not leak, but that doesn't mean it will perform properly...

The industry standard REQUIRES that the waterproof membrane or surface MUST be sloped. The tile on the top is NOT waterproof, so it doesn't count, although it also must be sloped as well.

There are a fair number of epoxy grouts out there, but they all require mixing of the components. Anything else, is basically a fancy caulk - stay away from them for grout. Epoxy grouts are often used in hospitals, food prep areas, and are making inroads into domestic applications. They are significantly more expensive than cement based grouts. Unless you use something like Dilex from www.schluter.com, you need to caulk the changes of plane in the shower...unless you make a mudded shower and walls, your transitions will almost certainly crack and should be caulked.

There are several acceptable ways to construct a shower...you should read up on those a little to ask you contractor some key questions to make sure yours will be done to current national standards to ensure a long-term satisfaction.

Go over to www.johnbridge.com and read up some in the Liberry (sic). You'll find articles there on the proper construction of a shower, and they can answer pretty much any tile questions you may have.

Rhe ezinearticles.com are great about all the necessary things for the shower pan etc. They go into great detailabout the pre-sloping of the floor prior to the membrane, then the membrane secured to the frame.Then the cementitious backerboard with a 1/4" gap from shower base..fill it with 100% silicone or Pro-Mastic. Even install 15 lb. roofing felt over wood studs prior to backerboard. Sheetrock screws for backerboard, fibra tape and pro-flex/promastic to patch all the 1/8" gaps between sheets of backerboard. A final coat of mortar to be applied on top pf shower pan mambrane to protect it and to provide a solid base for the tile floor.

Re the quartz grout. We have a very large tile company here. They are the ones who recommended the quartz grout. You might not be familiar with it. Here is their website www.starquartzgrout.com. The tile company told me to forget epoxy as it is very difficult to work with and tile people really dislike it. The quartz grout is as easy as regular to work with. It is waterproof and the way to go for the shower area. More expensive but worth it. Evidently something newer and much better, especially for a shower area with the waterproofing etc.

I have done the research, I think. It is not just a simple job!!

I looked at the Schluter Kerdi site. Our tile company is listed, along with Home Depot, as carrying the product. It sounds like a good way to do it. I will ceertainly ask about using it.

Thanks for the info.........

I read more on the Schluter Kerdi site. They now have an offset "pan" drain design which is ideal for the shower replacing the tub/shower. Saves tearing up concrete slab to get to center!!

I am going to suggest we use this...

To those who have been so helpful in providing me with sources of information!

I contacted local distributors for the Schluter products. They spoke very higly of the product and told me that it is widely used in the area.

I then talked with a contractor who is a certified installer for the systems. He has done many and has assured me that he is very familiar with the product. He will be able to take care of the complete project for me..beginning to end. I just have to hear the damage to my bank account!!

If you are interested, I will update you on my project as time goes on.

Don't use sheetrock screws for the backerboard, they'll rust and leave stains.

Ff the starquartz stuff is like a caulk...it comes premixed, I think you'll be dissatisfied in the long run. Epoxy grouts require good cleanup, since once cured, they are essentially permanent. If the cleanup is done properly, they are no harder to use than a conventional grout.

I will certainly discuss the grout..are you familiar with the starquartz? The tile company spoke highly ofit, for whatever that is worth!

Alos, read an article that by using the Schluter system you did not need to use the backer board..it was not necessary...what does everyone think about that?

Galvanized wood screws...correct??

Take a look at the www.starquartzgrout.com site if you have time.

All I know is what they told me at the tile company about it. They also said that tile people do not like to work with epoxy..guess it is difficult.

I'm so loaded with questions for this poor contractor who will be coming out! Maybe he will be impressed with this "woman"!!

No to premixed; yes to Kerdi on sheetrock

grace joan

you are making a lot of progress, fast.

1. slope first. (Let's hope your installer says that he will do this, and that he has done this, and that he only does this. Best way to be sure is to see the slope done, before the membrane goes on top.)
2. The Schluter Kerdi membrane, on walls, goes on top of regular old plasterboard. You can buy extra heavy sheetrock (5/8" thick, and denser than the regular stuff too) if you wish to, but there is no requirement to do so.
3. Grout has to be the kind that cures after mixing. Epoxy or cement based. No premixed grout will do this. Notice that the product you named above claims that you can leave unused portions in the bucket to be available for use again for some future project. Fishy, not good. It supposedly dries and hardens and cures when it is out of bucket, but not when it is left in the bucket with air in there too.... Do you think it might not re-emulsify when subjected to daily showers? Although grout is not the waterproofing layer, it still has to hold up over time, not turn to mush. The product claims to become semi-elastic over time. Not a good claim. Best place to get a detailed discussion on this in the Professionals' Forum at johnbridge.com; just ask one question and provide the link.

david

This is really a great site!!

I am going the Schluter-Kerdi route. I think I will feel more comfortable with it than any other way.

The building contractor that I talked with..also said he was a certified Schluter installer...has used the product many times said he has had problems with county building inspectors becauses they do not know the product. It is rather a gray area for needing or not needing a permit. I live in the city..have to decide wheter to go the permit route or not.

I certainly have all the right questions to ask when he comes by tomorrow or Friday. I think I will then be ready to go ahead with it whever he has the time. I am going to Paris in early Feb., so if he can finish before then, fine..I don't want it hanging.....

I haven't asked if anyone has the Moen Moentrol Vertical Spa set. It has 4 body jets. That is what I am going to put in. A plumber who has done things for me said he thought it was great when I bounced it off him. He said their valves were really good.

Thanks again to all............

gracejoan5 said:

I am going to have the fiberglas tub/shower removed completely. I then plan to have the area tiled and only a large shower. I will use the Moen shower head and 4 jets.

My plumber has told me that the existing drain is smaller and I will need to cut into the concrete slab and put a larger shower drain in the center of the new shower.

Click to expand...

With the shower head and 4 jets you can be putting 10 or 12 GPM into that shower pan, so you will want the larger drain.

There really is not a chice of drains, is there? I will get the Kerdi drain.

Have many of you used this system?? It sure sounds like the easy way to go. You just pick it up in a package and have everything that you need. Sounds like great planning on Schluter's part, to me...that is, if it all works out that way......

two big advantages to Kerdi

i did two last year. Easy to install. Easy to explain to partners and stakeholders. Very comforting to all.

Bob is right that your larger drain is a good thing in your case. Many people have been known to make use of an existing drain 1.5" in diameter.

2nd remark, about your plumbing: ask the plumber how big the supply pipe will be to the shower heads (sprays too). Sounds like a simple question, but sometimes produces surprising answers.

david

Glad to hear that they were easy to work with.

Yes, my plumber had told me of the difference in a shower drain and a tub drain. I intend to use the Kerdi. I can't help but ask: does it really make a great deal of difference for the surface drain to be larger when the water has to go into the same pipe just below the surface?

I will ask about the supply to the jets. Is there a recommended size? Also where have most of you located the 4 jets? Two in front and 2 on the side? How high and how low for most of you? Glad they are adjustable...you could have some rather funny positioning if you had one 5'2" person and one 6'4" person using the same shower..different times, of course!

I forgot..another question...size and type of tile for the floor? A glazed tile would be slippery, wouldn't it?? I will have to go someplace with many displays to see what they have done on the floors. I don't want to say what size tile I want. I need to look at some before thinking about that..guess I better do that tomorrow...who knows, I may have a new shower next week!!