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Don Zorn
01-10-2005, 06:22 PM
I have been told that it is required to caulk the toilet to the floor after setting it in order to prevent sewer gas from getting into the home if the toilet seal fails. Is this true?

I have also been told to leave a couple inches "uncaulked" at the back so that if the toilet seal starts leaking, it will become evident before the floor rots out? If this is true, doesn't it defeat the purpose of a secondary seal to guard against sewer gas?

My house was built in 1987 and the plumber did not caulk any of the toilets to the floor - is this something new?

Thanks in advance for your response! :)

Don

Terry
01-10-2005, 06:48 PM
http://www.terrylove.com/wc/toto/drake_angle2.jpg


Most plumbers caulk the front of the bowl and leave the back uncaulked.
The caulking in the front is for water (urine) on the floor that you don't want under the toilet.
The back is left uncaulked, if the seal leaks, you will want to know.

Washington State

http://www.terrylove.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=12846&d=1303193132

Don Zorn
01-11-2005, 05:39 PM
Hi Terry,

Thank you for your response and photo. With three young boys in the house -I understand the urine explanation. :)

With young boys in the house, I also understand the need to remove the toilet occasionally to remove toys and entire rolls of toilet paper.

I guess it is a tradeoff.

Don

DaveT
01-16-2005, 12:55 PM
What caulk is recommended for toilet to floor? Silicone? Polyseamseal Bathroom? Other?

Thanks.

Dave T

Terry
01-16-2005, 01:18 PM
Polyseam seal works. It's easy to use and removes easily too.

Silicone is almost impossible to remove from the flooring.
If you ever change toilets you will be regreting the use of it.

http://www.terrylove.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=12846&d=1303193132

Don Zorn
01-16-2005, 03:28 PM
I was reluctant to caulk the toilet for that very reason - silicone caulking is very difficult to remove.

Never heard of Polyseamseal. I am wondering if that is similar to DAP Kwik Seal which is readily available locally? Or is it a siliconized acrylic latex caulk? Can you get it in colors other than just white?

Don

jadnashua
01-16-2005, 03:49 PM
One thing I read on another forum (I don't know if it works) is to use some car wax on the toilet prior to caulking. It still allows a seal, but makes it come off easier. I'm going to try it on my toilet, but hope to not have to remove it for a long time!

DaveT
01-18-2005, 08:01 PM
Don Zorn,

Go to www.polyseamseal.com for info on the product. The Tub & Tile version is available in white, clear and almond.

My Home Center "expert" says the big advantages are its multi-use (adhesive, caulk, countertops, fixtures, etc) and its easy working; it is easy to make it look good (unlike silicone). I've had limited personal experience, but so far, so good.

Good luck finding it. There is a store locator on the web site.

jdkimes
01-19-2005, 12:13 PM
It looks like there are 10 different types of Polyseamseal caulk and some are 100% silicon so I think the key is to just use a caulk that is not silicon if you think you'll ever be in need of removing the toilet. I use the DAP Dynaflex 230 which is non-silicon for most caulking around the house unless its a very wet area like in/around the tub and shower. I use a 100% silicone in those instances, but have also started using a new GE product called XST which is silicone but much, much, easier to use than the typical silicone, and is also paintable but is more expensive.

Don Zorn
01-19-2005, 04:36 PM
I can get DAP products up here in Canada - so I will go with the Dynaflex 230. :) Checked their website and it is available in clear. I don' think Polyseamseal is available locally. Their website locator doesn't allow Canadian postal codes. :(

Thank you for your responses. Much appreciated! :)

Don

Plumber2000
01-19-2005, 07:34 PM
Caulking of the toilet base is required by code here.

Don Zorn
01-19-2005, 08:05 PM
Plumber2000 - Does code in your area require caulking 360 degrees around the toilet? Any idea why it is code - just curious? :)

Don

Plumber2000
01-20-2005, 02:24 PM
Don,

We do not caulk the very back edge of the toilets, reason is if the wax fails later in future, it's best to known well before it's too late and the floor is damaged.

Code says there must be a smooth transition between any fixture that sits on or near a floor or wall, one reason to caulk toilet at base is when water gets on the floor from say a shower it wont get under the base, caulk should prevent this from occurring.

Don Zorn
01-20-2005, 07:46 PM
Thanks for your response!

kstuart
01-18-2006, 11:53 AM
Just to point out some other aspects:

- I have well water, so the toilet sometimes sweats and that means more water on the floor in the back of the toilet than the front.

- One of the bathrooms is quite small, and so the toilet is right next to the shower/bath, which has a shower curtain instead of a sliding door. So, when a family member forgets to the get the shower curtain set/sealed right on the side next to the toilet, water can collect at the back of the toilet.

So, if you have either of these conditions, it might be better to caulk the back edge of the toilet.

jch
01-18-2006, 04:56 PM
I can get DAP products up here in Canada - so I will go with the Dynaflex 230. :) Checked their website and it is available in clear. I don' think Polyseamseal is available locally. Their website locator doesn't allow Canadian postal codes. :(
I'm in Canada too.

I just checked a tube of DAP Dynaflex 230 and, although the label says "cured caulk is mildew resistant", I wonder if it is truly "bathroom grade" so to speak. DAP's website (http://www.dap.com/docs/catalogs/ca/CanGuide.pdf) lists it under "window and door" as opposed to "kitchen and bath" :eek:

From their site, it looks like DAP's equivalent to PolySeamSeal is "DAP Kwik Seal Tub & Tile Adhesive Caulk". I haven't gone looking for it yet...

Hope this helps,
.../j

jm10701
10-31-2008, 09:12 PM
I'm having to reseat two identical toilets that I'm pretty sure have never been taken up since the house was built in 1952. I bought it five years ago from an old couple who were very easy on it; many things about the house look practically unused even though they're clearly old. I'm doing it because in both cases a very small amount of water started seeping out from under the toilets. One of them—the one I'm doing first—was rocking a little; the other is as solid as a rock but clearly has rotated slightly, evidently enough to break the wax seal.

I've learned from reading here about shimming to correct the rocking, and caulking to keep water from getting under the toilet. But what I haven't seen mentioned here is caulking to keep the toilet from rotating on the floor. Is that also a legitimate reason for caulking, and is caulking the best way to eliminate that problem?

I'm a complete novice at this, but I can't think of any other way to do it. (By the way, neither of these had any caulking or grout.) I don't see how just the flange bolts can completely prevent the bowl from rotating.

These toilets have four mounting holes, but I discovered that the bolts in the front holes are just dummies—they don't go into the floor—and evidently that's not unusual. I assume they would help prevent rotation if they did, but I'm not going to drill through the ceramic tiles just for that. I was amazed at how nearly perfect everything under the toilet looked, better than any pictures of old installations I've ever seen online, and I don't want to risk messing it up.

One thing I noticed is that the horn and the area around it are glazed, so that wax doesn't stick to it very well. When I lifted it, practically all the wax stayed on the flange, and although the wax was still fairly pliable, the surface of the wax was smooth and glossy and molded in the shape of the bottom of the toilet. I don't know if that's normal or not, but the pictures I've seen online always show a lot of wax stuck on the bottom of the toilet. So if the wax doesn't stick well to the toilet, rotating it just a little bit could break the seal. That's why I'm concerned about it.

Gary Swart
10-31-2008, 11:47 PM
Caulking is not used to prevent the toilet from rotating on the flange. You have pointed out that your ancient toilets have 4 bolt holes. Only 2 bolts are used on flanges now days, one on each side. It is these bolts that prevent the toilet from rotating, and they also hold the toilet down firmly against the flange to prevent rocking. Rocking will break the wax ring seal and cause a leak. Wax rings with plastic horns are no good. I know it would seem logical that they would help align the toilet on the flange, but they actually cause problems quite often. Use just a standard wax ring. Shimming is not necessary if the floor is level and the toilet base is not warped. To check that, clean the old wax off of the toilet horn and the flange. Set the toilet in place without a wax ring. It should set level and be in 100% contact with the floor. In other words, no rocking and no gaps. If that checks out OK, then set the toilet on the wax ring and press down and rock the toilet a bit until the base is in full contact with the floor. (Obviously you should not be able to rock the toilet very much and not at all when it is down) Make sure the toilet is square with the flange bolt and tighten the nuts down. These should not be torqued down like a cylinder head. Firm or snug are the operative words here. If shimming is necessary to level the toilet, this is done before tightening the flange bolts. Trim the shims even with the toilet base. Caulk around the toilet, leaving the back open.

kingsotall
11-01-2008, 06:01 AM
What else besides the obvious do you plan on doing on the toilet that would have you concerned that it would rotateż

If you are worried that the initial seal wasn't good and smelled sewer gas then either use a fatter wax ring or double-up two normal sized ones.

The two bolts hold the toilet down, they really do. They really, really do. They do, they do, they do. I swear they do!

hj
11-01-2008, 07:30 AM
Our inspectors specifically check the back of the toilet to make sure it WAS caulked competely around the whole base.



Arizona

jm10701
11-03-2008, 02:45 PM
Rant all you want. I believe my own eyes. I can see the little part of floor that used to be covered by the toilet but isn't any more, and when that appeared the water did too. The toilet was bolted securely to the floor, and the toilet rotated. Just a little bit, maybe an eighth of an inch at the front, but enough to break the wax seal. The first thing I did was check the nuts, and they were tight. How it happened I don't know, but that it happened I'm absolutely sure of because I can see it.

These are huge old toilets; the front edge at the floor is 16" from the flange, and the edge of the bowl itself is another five inches, so sideways pressure at the front puts a lot more torque on the bowl than in a newer toilet. There's enough of a gap in the holes around the bolts to allow that amount of rotation, and the porcelain can't stand enough pressure from the nuts to guarantee that it never moves. Maybe on a vinyl or wood floor, but not on ceramic tile. That just isn't possible, regardless of what they may have taught you in plumber school. That may be why they put the extra set of holes closer to the front on these old monsters.

Regardless of what anybody here says, I'm counting on the caulk to help keep the thing in place because I've seen with my own eyes that the two bolts aren't enough, and I can't think of anything better, and I need to caulk anyway, and nobody here is offering anything useful, just attitude.

Sometimes you guys seem more interested in playing expert than in actually helping anybody. I guess that shouldn't be surprising. I'd probably be the same way if I were you. We all like to show off.

Terry
11-03-2008, 04:16 PM
Nobody here is offering anything useful, just attitude.



Are you generalizing?
Or are you 100% sure of that

Joe the Plumber
11-03-2008, 04:34 PM
One thing I noticed is that the horn and the area around it are glazed, so that wax doesn't stick to it very well.

Most of the time, toilets are NOT glazed underneath, for just that reason. Wax won't stick to it. That maybe one thing I know. And that's not a rant.
Truely not a rant. You may want to caulk it to keep it from sliding arund on your tile floor. You know, the bowl.

99k
11-03-2008, 04:37 PM
Our inspectors specifically check the back of the toilet to make sure it WAS caulked competely around the whole base.

Dido. My inspector mandated caulk around the entire perimeter. I argued that I would like an opening in the back to let water out if the wax seal failed ... he didn't want to hear it...

Southern Man
11-03-2008, 05:08 PM
Dido. My inspector mandated caulk around the entire perimeter. I argued that I would like an opening in the back to let water out if the wax seal failed ... he didn't want to hear it...
I think he just want y'all to do that because its so hard to get a caulk gun back there. Personally I leave out the back for that specific reason, then tell people its to show a leak quickly if it does occur.... :)