Options for dealing with lead riser in slab?

[ryanwj]

I am helping a friend with a bathroom remodel. The remodel involves laying new ceramic tile on the floor as well as replacing the (pink) toilet. We removed the old toilet w/o a problem but after we removed it, we noticed the flange was somewhat loose. We pulled on the flange and it came up with almost no resistance. Turns out it was a brass flange that had been soldered to the lead. Now we have a 4" diameter lead riser soil pipe that seems to be fit inside a sleeve (maybe what I have seen referred to as a ferrule - perhaps brass) and the sleeve fits inside the hub of the presumably (looks like iron from the inside) cast iron closet flange.

We need to install a new flange on top of the tile we plan to install. All I've found that might even come close to addressing this situation is the Oatey closet flange replacement with the 3 socket head cap screws that is designed to install inside a 4" diameter riser. The lead riser is out of round and has some bad deformation, thus the Oatey product doesn't look as if is deep enough to seal. Unfortunately, this house is on a slab which I'm afraid might severly limit our options for dealing with the situation. The top of the lead riser is about 1" below the existing floor level thus I'm not sure soldering a new brass flange would work - I'm over my head here so any advice or suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks.

[Cass]

If you feel in over your head call around and find a plumber who can handel a situation like this and let him do it. That way you won't be wondering if it's going to leak sometime in the future. Is this on a basement?

[ryanwj]

This is on the main floor of the house - the whole house is a slab foundation.

I have read on these forums how to go about repairing this when you have access to the pipes underneath the floor. The obvious answer here would be to tear out the concrete and fix the riser down to the cast iron. I don't need a plumber to do the work - I just need to know what my options are here. Not being a professional plumber, I am not sure I know every possible fitting or contraption on the market. I operate under the motto that almost every bad thing that can happen has happened and sometimes someone somewhere used some ingenuity and figured out a clever way to deal with the situation and sells their solution in the form of a product. After visiting a local plumbing supply house today, they didn't seem to have such a product for this situation.

I have an idea that I'm working on that involves making an extension for a PlumBest C47-43P 4"x3" PVC Two Finger Toilet Flange out of 3" PVC. I plan to cut off the flange and toss it and glue the bottom part with the seal onto a 12" long stub of 3" PVC. I will then insert the seal end into the soil pipe until it seals inside the brass sleeve. This will leave me a 3" stub out of the floor and after we install the new tile I will put a normal PVC flange on the 3" stub. Any thoughts on this approach?

I have attached pic of the flange I plan to extend.

[master plumber mark]

that one might do the trick for you...

pick them up and see what happens...


I suppose you could try to rig something up

like you are talking about but those are "expandable gaskets "

and usually have allen wrench sockets built into the flange that

need to be tightend down...


so cutting them off like you are talking about is probably not

feasable....
----------------------------

Even when you install them correctly...

they work pretty well but I feel that they should still be

anchored to the floor with some plastic concrete anchors if you can

get some into the concrete.... tap cons ---whatever works


without the anchors they have always seemed to be a little "wobbley"

on the floor but they still work fine... and will get you out of some

real troubles

------------------------------------------------------------------

I doubt this is going to work..so

when this fails, you are probably going to have to bite the bullett and

dig up that concrete to get down to something tangable to tie

into with a fernco fitting and all new plastic comming up through the floor


if youi gamble on it and tile that floor to a rigged up flange
and then the flange pulls up through
all your new pretty tile work


then its ----"the crying game"----

















have FUN.

[ryanwj]

Turns out that the PlumBest ones do not have the screws inside like the Oatey ones do...it seems to rely more on a tight fit between the PVC and the ID of the soil pipe with a "2 finger" O-ring doing the sealing. I cut the flange and installed the 3" stub with no problem. The true test will be this weekend when I try to insert the stub/seal into the soil pipe. If I can get it well into the sleeve above the cast iron hub I will be good to go.

I definitely will anchor the new flange to the floor with Tapcons or some other means.

I realize this fix might not last forever, but not much of anything does last forever. In fact, I've learned its better to build things and not plan on them lasting forever b/c sooner or later something will have to be changed and/or fixed - hence why I will never own a house with a slab foundation (basement floor is acceptable).

Anyway, thanks for the feedback.

[master plumber mark]

another option that I KNOW will work.....


install your fittings as you see fit, then go out and buy some

hydrolic cement to pour down into the open area around that

joiint you are rigging up...... if their are any edjes or couplings

down in the hole glued to the pipes,

this stuff willl grip firm to them and it simply wont move


I have used it before to install cast iron flanges into basement

rough inns , once you pour the stuff into the hole and it fills up to

around the cast flange it literally "heats up " then sets up in about

5 minutes and wont ever move again.....