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price914
05-23-2006, 12:55 PM
We own a small bar in Seattle and over the last 4 billing cycles have seen very high water bills - the last one was $1,300, double last year at this time. We've been advised by the City to replace the 2 toilets, which are 1.6 but were installed in 1994 and thus are not the latest version. The City will give us a rebate if we install pressure-assisted toilets (1.1-gpf), but a plumber I talked to said they would not be durable in our situation, and parts may be hard to come by as the technology changes so fast. He recommended a Kohler Cimarron (perhaps the Eco-Smart, I'm not sure). Long story short - I need two toilets that will reduce my water bill AND last for the long haul. Recommendations?

Thanks
Chris

jadnashua
05-23-2006, 04:31 PM
Did your business increase significantly? If not, then a more likely culprit is a bad flapper valve or filler valve that is not always turning off and creating a constant flow at the toilet...it doesn't need much to really add up.

price914
05-23-2006, 08:41 PM
No, it has increased during slow and busy periods. Today we had someone out to look at it, who basically just lifted the tank and pronounced it fine, when we know it's not. Did a dye test a few days ago and saw color leak out, plus we sometimes hear both of them running. Perhaps we just need to repair and not replace?

chris

constantc
05-24-2006, 12:44 AM
I just installed a dual flush and my neighbor told me the local car wash (a big place) installed 4 dual flush toilets several years ago.

I don't know what the "commercial use" durability of the dual flush is but it seems just as solid if not more so than a regular toilet.

.9gal/1.6gal flush so maybe your city will help you out. I got mine for free w/ the city rebate.

plumber1
05-24-2006, 05:58 AM
If you already know two toilets need repair why not go that way?

Mike50
05-24-2006, 07:19 AM
I just installed a dual flush and my neighbor told me the local car wash (a big place) installed 4 dual flush toilets several years ago.

I don't know what the "commercial use" durability of the dual flush is but it seems just as solid if not more so than a regular toilet.

.9gal/1.6gal flush so maybe your city will help you out. I got mine for free w/ the city rebate.

IMO you need to do some serious thinking and have plan a about whether you want to educate customers and what's involved. This will happen eventually-I've never seen evidence as exactly how to accomplish that thus avoiding someone filling up that bowl...and pushing the .9 button and having a disaster.

I also love Toto's softclose seat that comes with the Aquia...but again imo it's not ready for primetime in some cases for several reasons.*
Plenty of businesses will hopefully try the commercial application of dual flush.
Your average Car Wash would be at the bottom of my list especially if workers would use the bathrooms.

*I do not think a really big guy would like the seat "fit". So you would need to switch that out.
Dont forget until 10 months ago these units were in Thailand (successsfully for 6 years) before breaking in the US market. I mention this because the average Thai man is about 5' 7 and weighs maybe 145 lbs. soaking wet.

You aren't just talking about trying out new technology here...you are talking about changing behavior.

M.

jimbo
05-24-2006, 08:14 AM
IMOyou want to educate customers
M.

You want to educate customers in a BAR about how to use the restroom?? I wish you a lot of luck with that one!

price914
05-24-2006, 08:39 AM
If you already know two toilets need repair why not go that way?

That's part of the problem - we are not plumbers and have no idea if we need to replace them or just repair them, a fact made more problematic when the plumber we were recommended says there's nothing wrong with them!

As for the dual-star, yeah right. Our customers can't even jiggle the handle if it's running.

Terry
05-24-2006, 09:06 AM
Seattle?

Call us up, we have toilets for Seattle bars.

Most of the time, we are installing the Toto Drake for that purpose.
Sometimes the Gerber Ultraflush (http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28088).
They come in standard height and ADA.
You will want open front seats for those.

And when it comes to seats, there are two types,
Regular (round front)
Elongated

For a bar, you want elongated.

That's it.
For a home, most use the closed front, but for a bar, it would be open front.

As far as the dual flush goes, it's not hard to figure out.
The small part of the button is for small flush
and the bigger part is for a standard flush.

50% of the time, someone will use the small flush even if they aren't thinking.
You can only save even more water that way.

There is no handle to jiggle with them.
The Toto dual flush comes in elongated bowl.

plumber1
05-24-2006, 09:09 AM
Maybe your plumber is just a construction plumber and doesn't really do repair work. Find out....

price914
05-24-2006, 09:17 AM
He does repair work; that's how we got his name, from someone he worked for. Doesn't matter now - we'll use someone else, maybe even Mr. Love himself!

jadnashua
05-24-2006, 09:30 AM
If the toilets are leaking...it is usually just a flapper valve - less than $10 and about 2-minutes to replace. Try that. If the toilets are already 1.6gallon a new one may not save water (although it might work better). Once the bowl fills after a flush, it SHOULD NOT RUN AGAIN until you flush it. If water is leaking out, the fix is usually easy.

Buy a quality flapper valve, replace it and see what happens. Don't use any in-tank cleaners - they'll turn the rubber/plastic parts to junk in quick order. If the seat where the rubber flapper valve sits is dirty, wipe it off. If it is not smooth, then consider replacing the toilet - the repair seats sometimes work, but can be a pain.

Mike50
05-24-2006, 10:20 AM
You want to educate customers in a BAR about how to use the restroom?? I wish you a lot of luck with that one!

Uh yea. I forgot who posted about the bar or the carwash. That eliminates many restaurants as well. Both are bad ideas. You'd have to be nuts.

How many commercial venues exist where people actually care about your plumbing? very few...

In fact I question what toilets that carwash really has. A lot of people who work at carwashes are unfortunately "on the Skids". wrong venue...

price914
05-24-2006, 11:12 AM
So we just got another opinion, and I'd be curious what you pros think. The water heater (which we knew needed to be replaced but didn't know was leaking) needs to be replaced - $1,075. Two Toto Drake toilets, installed, for $558 each. Does that sound reasonable? I think we actually lease the water heater from the gas company, so would assume they will replace that. But the toilets?

Thanks so much!

Chris

Terry
05-24-2006, 11:50 AM
We work in Seattle and can replace a Toto Drake toilet for less.


We also do water heater replacements,
Terry Love
206-949-5683

price914
05-24-2006, 02:25 PM
Sounds good - I'll be giving you a call tomorrow most likely.

Chris