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gholmes1936
03-23-2006, 02:59 PM
I have a Toto and the flapper drops immediaetely after tripping the lever, and I mean immediately. The chain has the right amount of slack in it and is at the end of the long arm. It has the regular 3 inch flapper with the openings in it. I don't see anything else that could be adjusted. HELP!!!!!! :confused:

ho333ard
03-23-2006, 05:03 PM
Um . . . that's how it's supposed to be, no?
You hold the lever for a few seconds to empty the tank before releasing.

Terry
03-23-2006, 05:47 PM
http://www.terrylove.com/wc/toto/inside_tank_cst744s.jpg
Looking inside the ST743S Toto Drake tank

It's not a problem.
If it were a 2" flapper, it would need to stay up longer to let the same amount of water out.

Since it's a 3", it happens much quicker.
Modern toilets don't use all of the water in the tank.
The tanks hold more than 1.6 gallon though.
Not matter how water the tanks hold, it's still designed to just release a small portion.
By having more water in the tank, it raises the water level and that adds force to the flush.
The flappers on these work just as you described.
The "are" very quck.

dc_homeplumber
03-23-2006, 07:12 PM
I have a Toto and the flapper drops immediaetely after tripping the lever, and I mean immediately. The chain has the right amount of slack in it and is at the end of the long arm. It has the regular 3 inch flapper with the openings in it. I don't see anything else that could be adjusted. HELP!!!!!! :confused:

It should be allowing a gallon and a half of water through to adequately flush. When you say "immediately," it sounds as though the flapper drops too soon to allow even a gallon and a half to pass. I would replace the flapper. The flappers for G-Max and Power Gravity Toto toilets are available on this site and elsewhere. If this is not the problem, at least you won't be out a fortune.

gholmes1936
03-23-2006, 09:41 PM
Um . . . that's how it's supposed to be, no?
You hold the lever for a few seconds to empty the tank before releasing.

Normally, like on my other toto toilet I trip the lever and let go and the flapper goes down slowly. At least slow enough so that the minimum amount of water flows. When I said that it goes down immedeately I meant in a split second the flapper goes down. There is still almo0st half of the water left in the tank. And it's only 1.5 gpf.

Cass
03-24-2006, 03:50 AM
#1 does it flush right even though the flapper shuts fast?

#2 Did this just start or has it always been like this.

#3 Sounds like it could be a handle problem if the chain is adjusted right, not lifting the flapper quite high enough.

Be sure the handle arm is not contacting the fill valve.

SteveW
03-24-2006, 09:29 AM
Just to re-state what others have already said, in modern low-flow toilets, the 1.6 gal. figure doesn't mean the tank holds only 1.6 gal -- it means 1.6 gal. go from the tank into the bowl.

The tanks are deliberately designed to hold more water than is actually "flushed" -- the water that stays in the tank serves to provide more "oomph" to that which DOES leave the tank by increasing the "head pressure" (I think it's called).

gholmes1936
03-27-2006, 10:02 AM
#1 does it flush right even though the flapper shuts fast?

#2 Did this just start or has it always been like this.

#3 Sounds like it could be a handle problem if the chain is adjusted right, not lifting the flapper quite high enough.

Be sure the handle arm is not contacting the fill valve.


To answer:
#1. I don't believe it does as it stops up very easily. No evidence of water flowing from the front of the bowl at all! My other toto allows the flap to stay up just long enough so that the correct amount of water empties, as in a slight hesitation before the flapper actually closes.

#2. It started awhile after the main valve (and flapper) were replaced by a licensed plumber.

#3. Isn't the handle just a trip lever without any type of delay thing built in? Having watched it many times I can tell you that flapper rod lifts the flapper all the way to the tube.

I don't understand "Be sure the handle arm is not contacting the fill valve."

This tank is shorter than our other Toto. It isn't one of those 90's low flow toilet types but it is lower than the other which looks more like a regular toilet. Oh, yeah it is a one piece commode also. :confused:

Terry
03-27-2006, 11:51 AM
http://terrylove.com/images/toto_cst854_inside_tank.jpg
Looking inside the MS854114 or CST854 tank.
The MS854114S has the red flapper.
Did the tank parts look like this before the repair?

Lowes sells the right fill valve and the flapper for the Toto Power-Gravity series.
The Korky quietfill valve is $7.99 and the Korky Toto blue flapper is $9.87

gholmes1936
03-27-2006, 03:56 PM
http://terrylove.com/images/toto_cst854_inside_tank.jpg
Did the tank parts look like this before the repair?

Lowes sells the right fill valve and the flapper for the Toto Power-Gravity series.
The Korky quietfill valve is $7.99 and the Korky Toto blue flapper is $9.87

As I remember they did look like those you pictured. I wondered if color was a key to the correct parts or not at the time. There is a number inside the tank, would/could that be the model number? :confused:

Terry
03-27-2006, 05:30 PM
On the Toto, that would be the toilet number.

It may be something like CST854, or CST764, something like that.
The Blue flapper lets out more water than the red one.

gholmes1936
03-27-2006, 07:08 PM
On the Toto, that would be the toilet number.

It may be something like CST854, or CST764, something like that.
The Blue flapper lets out more water than the red one.

The model number in the tank is C854 and has a red flapper with a yellow valve assembly. Is this correct or what? I sure appreciate all your time and help Terry. :)

Terry
03-27-2006, 08:48 PM
http://www.terrylove.com/images/hunter/quietfill.jpg
The Korky is the exact replacement fill valve.

The 854 is either an Ultimate with blue flapper or the Ultramax with red flapper.

gholmes1936
03-28-2006, 06:33 AM
http://www.terrylove.com/images/hunter/quietfill.jpg
The Korky is the exact replacement fill valve.

The 854 is either an Ultimate with blue flapper or the Ultramax with red flapper.

Thank you so much for all the info Terry. It would seem that since the flapper in the 854 tank is red, that maybe it needs a blue one? Since the blue one lets out more water. Where can I find out for sure. Possibly if I could find the original installation documents it would help a lot.

Oh, my other Toto is an ST743S and has two different colors in it's insides. :)

gholmes1936
04-04-2006, 10:29 AM
Thank you so much for all the info Terry. It would seem that since the flapper in the 854 tank is red, that maybe it needs a blue one? Since the blue one lets out more water. Where can I find out for sure. Possibly if I could find the original installation documents it would help a lot.

Oh, my other Toto is an ST743S and has two different colors in it's insides. :)


I purchased the blue KORKY flapper at Lowes and installed it and so far everything is right with the world. :D Thank you so very much Terry.
George in Austin, Texas

SteveW
04-04-2006, 01:49 PM
I just had my first Toto experience -- stayed at a hotel in Kansas City with Totos in the rooms. I think it might have been a Drake but not sure. I now understand the sense that folks get when they first use one. Seems like the flapper does come down almost immediately, and in fact when I lifted the tank lid and watched, only a little more than half the tank emptied into the bowl.

Worked perfectly, every time. Just takes getting used to.

Terry
04-09-2006, 09:01 AM
The tabs of the flush valve allow either the red or the blue.
Most places seem to carry both colors now.

Spokaneman
04-10-2006, 08:31 AM
I just had my first Toto experience -- stayed at a hotel in Kansas City with Totos in the rooms. I think it might have been a Drake but not sure. I now understand the sense that folks get when they first use one. Seems like the flapper does come down almost immediately, and in fact when I lifted the tank lid and watched, only a little more than half the tank emptied into the bowl.

Worked perfectly, every time. Just takes getting used to.


Curiosity got the better of me so I took the top off of my Vespin an flushed, sure enough only about 2/3 of the volume in the tank was used in the flush. Apparently the additional head (no pun intended) pressure is used to push the flush down. I suppose if you needed more water for a bigger flush, you could hold the handle for a couple of seconds.

No wonder my wife thinks I'm nuts, most folks just don't care.

jadnashua
04-10-2006, 01:42 PM
That's exactly right...the height of the water is part of the engineered means to an end...getting enough velocity to flush with the minimum water. That is also one reason why you need to be careful about the flapper valve you use to replace the original when it eventually goes bad...an incorrectly designed one might close early or late, either not generating a good flush, or wasting water.

rhutchin02@comcast.net
12-06-2009, 12:53 PM
The original flapper on my Toto toilet had a plastic "fin" on the other side of the fill pipe. This design delayed the drop of the flapper. With this configuration all was fine. I cannot find this type of replacement. I believe Toto had to have designed this type for a reason. I believe they should step up and solve the issues people are having with rhe early drop of the flapper.
Is there anyone familiar with the plastic fin I am speaking of?

Terry
12-06-2009, 01:00 PM
The original flapper on my Toto toilet had a plastic "fin" on the other side of the fill pipe. This design delayed the drop of the flapper.

The fin has been replaced with the blue power gravity flapper found at any Lowes Hardware.

http://terrylove.com/images/toto_cst854_inside_tank.jpg

rhutchin02@comcast.net
12-07-2009, 06:29 PM
Terry,

I understand that this replacement is available as I have already installed it. But the problem is this replacement does not function properly. Why did they have the fin in the first place? And why did they do away with it without offering one that works properly?

Runs with bison
12-07-2009, 11:09 PM
Terry,

I understand that this replacement is available as I have already installed it. But the problem is this replacement does not function properly. Why did they have the fin in the first place? And why did they do away with it without offering one that works properly?

Be more specific. What is happening? "Does not function properly" is a akin to saying "my car is broken, fix it."

rhutchin02@comcast.net
12-08-2009, 06:48 AM
The problem is the flapper has no hang time and closes too quickly. It would seem that toto designed that "fin" so this would not happen.

Peanut9199
12-08-2009, 06:55 AM
The replacement has been around for years and years and that is what has been installed in the newer toilets and there has not been any problems with them not working.

The flapper you get as a replacement has links that need to be adjusted to each toilet, did you check the link chart on the back of the package?

Terry
12-08-2009, 01:13 PM
http://www.terrylove.com/wc/toto/ms894_inside_tank.jpg
Are you looking at this old Prominence one-piece toilet?
It has the flapper for timing, and a top button on the lid.

http://www.terrylove.com/wc/toto/ms894_angle.jpg
TOTO Prominence MS894114 one piece toilet.

This model has been discontinued.
The last one I sold was eight years ago.

Parts for the MS894114 (http://www.guillens.com/Toto/1P_Toilet/Prominence_MS894114.htm)

Terry
12-12-2009, 10:25 AM
http://www.terrylove.com/images/cst454_old_inside_tank.jpg
Looking inside an old TOTO Ultimate.
The fill valve is made by Hunter, which was bought by Korky.
The Korky parts will work.

The flush valve uses a rubber disk under the plastic part that lifts up.
It can be replaced with the Blue 3" replacement flapper for Toto by Korky.

The fill tube in the picture should have been pointed into the overflow tube.
It's the fill tube that refills the bowl.

http://terrylove.com/images/toto_cst854_inside_tank.jpg
Here is a new Toto Ultimate

JoeHenryLR
12-12-2009, 06:56 PM
I have the Toto Drake ST743S, purchased/installed in 9/2009.

The problem I'm having intermittently is that filling continues after the tank is filled to top of overflow tube. So, filling continues and overflow goes down overflow tube.

Does this sound like a flapper/flush valve symptom?

I have tried wiggling and/or pushing down on fill valve...seems like this has worked to stop filling a few times but not every time. I have tried pressing down on flapper to ensure good seating; this has never worked. I have tried turning water off and back on; this seems to have worked a time or two but, again, not every time...and much less often than messing with fill valve assembly. I can't determine what is causing overfill to continue or to stop.

We are on a private well, which from time to time has "issues" which typically sends a good bit of grit/mud through the system. The inside of the toilet tank is a muddy brown (up to water line) and there's silt on the inside bottom of the tank.

Thanks. Joe

Terry
12-12-2009, 07:07 PM
The silt is not good.
If you have the Korky style fill valve, you may be able to clean it.

www.terrylove.com/korky (http://www.terrylove.com/korky)

Instructions on the lower third of the page.

JoeHenryLR
12-12-2009, 08:31 PM
Thank you very much for your prompt response/advice. I'll pursue it...probably on Monday.