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Chris_G
03-22-2006, 08:34 AM
OK, this is my first post here. I want to state right up front that I'm not a plumber or a contractor...

I prefer manual flushometers over tank toilets. I have two issues I need to resolve before making a final purchase decision:

1.) How to determine which flushometer hardware is compatible with which toilet bowl.

2.) Finding a flushometer that I'm satisfied with, from a design perspective.

Regarding the second issue- So far, I'm most inclined to either the Sloan Crown II, or the Sloan GEM... however, I've seen flushometers in some upscale hotel/restaurant bathrooms that have even cleaner lines/less detail than these two models. Though I'm detail oriented enough that I noticed, and took note of them, I wasn't in the market for one at the time, so I didn't get the brand. Now that I'm in the market, I'm not finding these, shall I call them "designer flushometers".

My suspicion is that they are European manufactured, and probably have some other name rather than "flushometer". Does anyone know what "flushometer" is in Italian?

Thank you for any assistance.

hj
03-22-2006, 09:48 AM
You may have been looking at a Toto valve. For ease and service, longevity, and parts availability, you cannot beat the Sloan/Zurn valves. Zurn being a Sloan knockoff.

Chris_G
03-22-2006, 11:29 AM
I've looked at Toto on their website at:
http://www.totousa.com

They do have a selection of flushometers under their commercial products, but they're not really what I'm looking for.

Once I stopped searching under "flushometer" and changed my search string to "flush valve", I've found some other manufacturers. Right now I'm limiting my advanced google search to seach by a specific domain sufix (".it") to seach only in Italy. That yielded the Italian plumbing manufacturer named Bocchi:
http://www.bocchi.it

I have not found what I'm looking for there yet, but I think I'm on the right track. If Bocchi doesn't offer what I want, then I'll also look for German companies.

Thank you for your help, and I'll report back on whether I've had success.

cheers,
Chris

Chris_G
03-22-2006, 11:32 AM
Here are a couple of simple ones-

TEMPO® 300 Push button flush valve (http://www.bocchi.it/php/catalog/product_info_ebocchi.php?category_id=01&index_id=9&subcategory_id=1&products_id=520&)

TEMPO® 370 Lever operated flush valve (http://www.bocchi.it/php/catalog/product_info_ebocchi.php?category_id=01&index_id=9&subcategory_id=1&products_id=570&)

That 370 model with the lever sticking straight up is really great (my wife may accuse it of looking too phallic... but hey, it is a toilet, after all)

Question fcor you, HJ (or anybody who would know)-

Can you tell if these would work with standard US plumbing?

thanks for any help

Chris_G
03-22-2006, 10:44 PM
I would like to know if I understand the usage of this hardware correctly.

If a 1.6 GPF Toto toilet model CT705L...

http://www.deleteimage.com/noimage.jpg

were used with a Bocchi Tempo 370 Lever operated surface flush valve...

http://www.deleteimage.com/noimage.jpg

Would it work this way?

http://www.deleteimage.com/noimage.jpg

Here are the specs (only available for the push button version):

http://www.deleteimage.com/noimage.jpg





Thanks for any feedback.





.

Terry
03-22-2006, 11:04 PM
For that bowl to flush, it needs 1.6 gallons.

Most domestic flush valves for use in the US, would have a 1" supply from the wall to the valve and an 1-1/2" tailpiece going into the bowl.

What you have is a 3/4" something, and I can't tell how much water that would put out.
It looks more like something a Urinal might have used maybe 50 years ago.

Chris_G
03-24-2006, 03:14 PM
.





I've seen flushometers in some upscale hotel/restaurant bathrooms that have even cleaner lines/less detail than these two models. Though I'm detail oriented enough that I noticed, and took note of them, I wasn't in the market for one at the time, so I didn't get the brand. Now that I'm in the market, I'm not finding these, shall I call them "designer flushometers".





Leave it to German engineering.

Schell GmbH + Co. KG: Schellomat Edition WC flush valve

http://en.red-dot.org/rd/img/360/2004-07-1414-a.jpg

Professional sanitary-ware installers, specifiers and building managers have long been aware of the advantages of wall-mounted WC flush valves... However, architects and customers were put off by these units’ outdated visual design and excessive noise. Schell Armaturentechnologie in Olpe, Germany, took this to heart and brought this tried and tested product back into the limelight at the ISH in the form of the newly designed Schellomat Edition WC flush valve...

The international juries of both the "reddot design award 2004" and "Design Plus 2005" were of the opinion that the clean-line elegance which the sieger design company lent to the Schellomat Edition was worth an award...

These new Schell flush valves have been designed with the important theme of saving water in mind – with a substantial flush capacity and a wide adjusting range from 4.5 to 12 litres. The Schellomat Edition Eco version also has an economy button allowing the flush volume to be halved.

READ THE FULL ARTICLE HERE:
Schell´s new wall-mounted WC flush valves have already won two design prizes (http://ish.messefrankfurt.com/frankfurt/en/presse-center_1164.html?guid=mf_ddsp1432_7549&language=en&show_date_detail=no)





.

hj
03-24-2006, 03:49 PM
They might work on U.S. toilets once you got past the problem of adapting to the metric connecions.

Bob NH
03-24-2006, 05:03 PM
The issue is not how many gallons per flush the valve provides. The issue is the RATE at which it delivers the required 1.6 gallons. That is why toilet flush tanks have 2 to 3 inch flush valves and often dump only the first half of the tank.

My 1.6 gallon toilet dumps 1.6 gallons in about 2 seconds as near as I can tell without instrumentation. That is 48 Gallons Per Minute! Besides the valve, you need a big pipe.

Low flow toilet desingers work hard to match the tank discharge to the toilet. My guess is that a non-standard flusjh valve would probably not work.

SteveW
03-24-2006, 05:15 PM
That 370 model with the lever sticking straight up is really great (my wife may accuse it of looking too phallic... but hey, it is a toilet, after all)




Ummm...not sure how to say this, but if your wife thinks the Model 370 looks phallic, you may want to see a urologist...

Chris_G
03-24-2006, 08:53 PM
.



My guess is that a non-standard flusjh valve would probably not work.

Well it must be standard to some toilet. They obviously designed it to work with something.


.

Cass
03-25-2006, 03:55 AM
Chris_G, what is it about toilets you don't like, just wondering.

Have you looked at The Caroma Caravel 270?

Chris_G
03-25-2006, 10:22 AM
.



I have nothing against toilets, I have a whole thread here dedicated to finding the right one. You seem to be saying, why don't I like "tank" toilets? Don't like them. I have my reasons. I'm not interested in a debate over tank toilets vs flushometer toilets. You can debate that on some other thread... my bet is, that thread probably already exists.

I'm looking for a flushometer that has had as much thought put into its design as hardware manufacturers are willing to put into faucets, shower heads, and other bathroom hardware. The flushometer, has been neglected.

Hansgrohe 38030 Axor Faucet
http://www.deleteimage.com/noimage.jpg

WS Bath Collection Sink Trap
http://www.deleteimage.com/noimage.jpg

Kohler stacked thermostatic valve trim
http://www.deleteimage.com/noimage.jpg

Why not put that much aesthetic throught into a flushometer design?

Schell GmbH + Co. KG of Germany has taken the time to address the issue. Why do you want to Poo-poo it? (couldn't resist the pun)


.

hj
03-25-2006, 12:23 PM
Because in this country, flushometer valves are almost universally used in commercial and some rental units where perfomrance, and not aesthetics, is the main consideration. When aesthetics becomes an issue they usually opt for a conventional tank type. You also have to consider who is going to repair these things, and the common "plant" service person is going to know how to fix a Sloan, but will have no clue, or parts, for an aesthetically pleasing one.

Cass
03-25-2006, 01:03 PM
Sorry for asking....I didn't want to debate anything, I was just curious why you don't like tanks.

Chris_G
03-25-2006, 04:00 PM
Because in this country, flushometer valves are almost universally used in commercial and some rental units where perfomrance, and not aesthetics, is the main consideration. When aesthetics becomes an issue they usually opt for a conventional tank type. You also have to consider who is going to repair these things, and the common "plant" service person is going to know how to fix a Sloan, but will have no clue, or parts, for an aesthetically pleasing one.

OK, that is a very reasonable explanation.

I'll try to make sense of this.

People that don't live in New York, Tokyo, or one of a handful of other major metropolises just don't grasp how rare and valued space is- My only bathroom is 6' x 6.5'. There is a reason why most Manhattan apartments (NOT rentals, but owner occupied Coop, and Condo apartments) have flushometers. Take 32" off one side of my bath for the bathtub, and I have 6' x 46" left to have a toilet across from a sink, with only a few square feet of floor space in between. With a top mounted flushometer I can place the toilet 3 inches closer to the wall (maybe more), and re-gain several square feet of usable wall space behind the toilet (where I will hang two towel bars, one over the other).

There are something like 2.5MM people in Manhattan (not all of New York, I'm only talking about Manhattan Island, where the density is highest). Add in the high density areas of central London, Berlin, Paris, Hong Kong, Tokyo, etc. and there is a large market for cosmetically pleasing flushometers. If you read that article about the design awards that Schell GmbH + Co. KG won for their flushometer, with that market in mind, you see who they are targeting.



.

jadnashua
03-25-2006, 04:25 PM
Well, I just looked at a couple popular Toto models, a round front Drake is about 1/4" deeper than one of their flushometer toilets (26-3/8" verses 26-1/8"), and an elongated toilet was about 1.75" deeper. Varies by model, a little more/a little less.

Older, 5-gallon flush toilets needed a much larger tank. The mandated 1.6 gallon tanks are typically much smaller. So, your theory about saving huge space is not convincing me...

Chris_G
03-25-2006, 07:33 PM
edit......

Cass
03-25-2006, 07:34 PM
Jadnashua, he is gaining the space where the tank would be, not so much the floor space.

Chris_G
03-25-2006, 07:42 PM
I came here genuinely thinking there were experts on plumbing hardware and all things toilets that would be happy to speak up and point me in the direction of cool/sleek plumbing hardware that a novice like me wouldn't know where to find. Sorry if I offended anyone.

jadnashua
03-25-2006, 08:49 PM
Based on your concerns, the Toto Neorest is shorter front to back than most flushometer tanks. Most one-piece new toilets are no where near as long front to back,and the tank doesn't go very high at all, some are barely 6" above the seat height. In fact the Neorest doesn't have a tank. There are alternatives to a flushometer.

If the flushometer valve will flow the proper volume of water at the needed rate, then it will work. As noted, those typically used in the USA use big supplies and a huge shot of water for a short time. It is not known if the valves designed for a European toilet would work with one of ours. So, even if you put a nice valve on a US toilet, and it used the right amount of water, it may not flush properly. You might have to buy a toilet from Europe, and who knows if it will fit on one of our rough-ins. No guarantee it will work well. As you will find out if you check, some of the "new" low-flow toilets available here by old names don't work for a d***. Some work quite well, and will be quieter than a flushometer. Less of an impact on your shower, too, depending on how well-designed your plumbing is, too. So, take the responses in that light, and do what you wish. Good luck.

You haven't offended anyone, but I think it is just that people aren't sympathetic to your perceived problem and have been trying to point out some useful info, if you care to listen.

hj
03-26-2006, 06:34 AM
No offense, you can do anything you wish to, but your math is suspect. The toilet by code has to have a space 30" wide with the toilet in the center of it, so that space can be occupied by the tank, or nothing, but it still has to be there, using up your money. Few toilet tanks hang 3" behind the toilet so you are also not gaining that much space, either. You would be lucky to find one with 1 1/2" between the bowl and the wall with a true 12" dimenstion. The other thing to consider is that the majority of flush valve toilets are designed for a 10" rough dimension, (the oldr Mansfield's would fit a 7" rough dimension), so if yours is 12" you have already lost 2" more. Nex, because of piping issues, you probably cannot move the toilet so it sets completely against the wall. A more practical consideration is that many NYC bathrooms were equipped with flushometer valves, so using another one is simpler. If you do not have piping for a flushometer, converting to one is not simply a case of increasing the pipe connection to it.

Chris_G
03-26-2006, 11:28 AM
It's as if I stumbled onto a bulletin board for "G scale" model train buffs and made the social blunder of mentioning that I own "HO scale" trains.

I've asked for advice on Flushometers. All I've gotten is a smack-down by "tank toilet loyalist".

Several have chimed in with almost reverential defenses of tank toilets vs flushometers. Sorry, I'm not buying a tank toilet, I'm simply not. If you cannot deal with that, don't bother to post. If you have something to contribute about flushometers on the market, I'm eager to hear from you.

The space issue is real. Size of a flushometer- a few inches wide, by about 12" to 18" tall... even smaller (much smaller) with the German designer model by Schell. Tank toilet- a few cubic feet. It is precious VOLUME in my room, not square feet on my floor, as I have reiterated again and again. Cass seems to get it. If you want another analogy, think about packing a suitcase. Now, think about packing a toilet-tank in your suitcase, and think about packing a flushometer in your suitcase... literally. The tank probably won't even fit in your suitcase, where, with the flushometer, well you'd have to leave out a couple of T-Shirts, and a roll of socks. Get it? A tank takes up space. Also, esthetically speaking, I happen to prefer the look of a piece of chrome hardware over a big porcelain box.

My inquiry is simple- Are there hardware manufactures that produce flushometer hardware with as much design consideration as other bathroom hardware? I've found a few myself, and posted them. I would have thought that a group of professional plumbers would have known of more. It was a simple question.

Either you have something to contribute, ie.: I know a product made by a Swiss company called Geberit, who are distributed by Chicago Faucets. They have a model that is simpler in design that most of the Sloan and Zurn models on the US market. Their products work with American plumbing. Maybe you should check them out.

Something like that is a credible reply. Posting back that you have measured a bunch of toilets and decided that my desire to save space isn't an adequate reason to implement a flushometer, and therefore you still prefer tank toilets, contributes nothing.

Chris_G
03-26-2006, 11:36 AM
If you do not have piping for a flushometer, converting to one is not simply a case of increasing the pipe connection to it...

As to existing plumbing, I'm doing a gut renovation- so it doesn't matter.

Terry
03-26-2006, 11:58 AM
It's all good information you are bringing out.

In Manhatten, there are many toilets without tanks.
Having some nice looking valves would be nice.

Chris_G
03-26-2006, 12:46 PM
Thank you. All I really want is a point in the direction of a flushometer that has design consideration, like anyone would expect out of a faucet set, or other bathroom hardware. I know somebody already makes them. I've seen them in nice hotels and the bathrooms in up-scale restaurants. Obviously there are some that work with American plumbing hardware- I seem to recall the ones I've used have worked just fine, but I don't know who manufactures them.

I've used Google to search in specific countries by ending the search string with site: and putting the country specific suffix, .it to search only in Italy, .de to search only in Germany, etc. I begin the string with search terms like "flush valve" and flushometer, and began adding wc when I found that many label the toilet hardware with the abbreviation for "Water Closet". Are there any other commonly used words for this type of hardware?

Thanks for any advice.

dc_homeplumber
03-26-2006, 02:24 PM
It's as if I stumbled onto a bulletin board for "G scale" model train buffs and made the social blunder of mentioning that I own "HO scale" trains.

I've asked for advice on Flushometers. All I've gotten is a smack-down by "tank toilet loyalist".

Several have chimed in with almost reverential defenses of tank toilets vs flushometers. Sorry, I'm not buying a tank toilet, I'm simply not. If you cannot deal with that, don't bother to post. If you have something to contribute about flushometers on the market, I'm eager to hear from you.

The space issue is real. Size of a flushometer- a few inches wide, by about 12" to 18" tall... even smaller (much smaller) with the German designer model by Schell. Tank toilet- a few cubic feet. It is precious VOLUME in my room, not square feet on my floor, as I have reiterated again and again. Cass seems to get it. If you want another analogy, think about packing a suitcase. Now, think about packing a toilet-tank in your suitcase, and think about packing a flushometer in your suitcase... literally. The tank probably won't even fit in your suitcase, where, with the flushometer, well you'd have to leave out a couple of T-Shirts, and a roll of socks. Get it? A tank takes up space. Also, esthetically speaking, I happen to prefer the look of a piece of chrome hardware over a big porcelain box.

My inquiry is simple- Are there hardware manufactures that produce flushometer hardware with as much design consideration as other bathroom hardware? I've found a few myself, and posted them. I would have thought that a group of professional plumbers would have known of more. It was a simple question.

Either you have something to contribute, ie.: I know a product made by a Swiss company called Geberit, who are distributed by Chicago Faucets. They have a model that is simpler in design that most of the Sloan and Zurn models on the US market. Their products work with American plumbing. Maybe you should check them out.

Something like that is a credible reply. Posting back that you have measured a bunch of toilets and decided that my desire to save space isn't an adequate reason to implement a flushometer, and therefore you still prefer tank toilets, contributes nothing.
You will be much more likely to receive helpful contributions on this site if you cut your condescending narrative. It's simply lovely that you have the money to pay a fortune for what is, to the non-Manhattan dweller, a relatively small space and then, to be able to gut it and design it exactly as you wish. Bravo! The point you are missing is, that unless a commercial-type flush valve toilet is already in your space, you will be up against much more than retrofitting metric and/or other foreign materials. If the fresh water supply line is not of a large enough diameter, the commercial-type flush valve will not work properly. Since you are in Manhattan, I am going to assume that your condo is not ground level. Therefore, running the proper diameter pipe from the source of supply, into the building and through the walls and floors of other units to accommodate your need for a flush-o-meter might strain even your budget. For someone who doesn't want to sacrifice $1,500 worth of space, it could get quite expensive. As noted before, there are tankless toilets available that use "standard" plumbing. Two that come to mind are the Kohler Purist Hatbox and the Toto Neorest, although they have elongated seating areas and I don't have the time nor patience now to figure out what that works out to in square feet or dollars or euros. Both are also quite pricey. The Neorest even has a built-in bidet, a sensor that detects your approach and automatically raises the seat and a handy remote control.

I wish you the best in finding exactly what you want. A commercial plumbing supplier that deals primarily in high-end will probably be your best source.

jk60
03-26-2006, 04:29 PM
You will be much more likely to receive helpful contributions on this site if you cut your condescending narrative.

dc_homeplumber - Bravo!!! You've expressed what I was thinking while reading this thread. As a matter of fact I am shocked that people here are still willing to contribute their time and expertise to this issue while getting bad attitude and criticism in return.

Chris_G
03-28-2006, 08:43 PM
I hope that you will accept my apologies for my bad behavior. Not of your concern and probably too much information, but several things disrupting my life directly related to this renovation, but nothing to do with my flushometer, have turned my life upside down and that all came to a head over the last several days. I think the pursuit of the perfect flushometer somehow became the preposterous outlet for my angst. I felt like everyone here was trying to argue with me about tank toilets over flushometers and I escalated with snarky responses. After re-reading this thread, I realize I was the one being an ass.

I was genuinely enthusiastic when I found this forum. My expectation was that I would get a few replies with several great manufactures and models, by people who really knew this market, and instead, I just found that plumbers prefer using tanks. That's my problem, not yours.

dc_homeplumber
03-29-2006, 03:27 AM
I think it's a shame that (for some of us anyway) the path to owning our ideal home has to be so treacherous. I don't know your particular situation Chris, but I had a house built in 1994 and everything from financing approval to resolution of the final punchlist items was a NIGHTMARE. My contractor argued just about every possible point with me -- including the toilets. He provided round white Mansfields; I wanted elongated American Standards in grey and forest green. I wanted ceramic on the bathroom floors; he insisted vinyl was fine. I wanted the range hood vented to the outside; he said it was an unnecessary expense. He made me feel crazy for requesting things that I was willing to pay for.

In hindsight, I would have been better served to have accepted the cheap Mansfields. 1.6 gallon toilets were new that year and mine absolutely sucked (and not in a good way). If I still owned that house, I'm sure I would have by now replaced those original toilets and, because of the color, been out a fortune again. Anyway....

I don't think it's so much the plumbers' preference for tank toilets. I believe it was assumed by your post that your prerequisite rough plumbing might not be adequate to support what you want to do and the options that would work within your limitations to get you as close as possible to the desired end result (i.e., functional use of limited space) were being pointed out.

Again, I hope everything works out to your liking. As "crappy" as they were, my grey and green American Standards on a tile floor were what I wanted and I would have NEVER been happy with white Mansfields on vinyl.

hj
03-29-2006, 05:19 AM
As to existing plumbing, I'm doing a gut renovation- so it doesn't matter.

It does matter because if you do not have the proper water supply to the toilet area, or into the building, you can repipe to your heart's content and the flushometer will still not work.

Chris_G
03-30-2006, 08:52 PM
Very well. There are many conditions that must be met. I'm not a plumber, and my contractor will ultimately deal with the technical issues. It is true that our apartment currently has a tank, however that was installed as part of work done as a half arse renovation when the place was put on the market before we bought. I've been in other units in this building that do indeed have flushometers, which, in any case, is the norm, not the exception, in Manhattan apartments.

Understanding that you have expertise, and only wish to offer sound advice- going forward, can we operate on the assumption that my apartment and plumbing can indeed support a flushometer?

If we make that assumption, then the next step would be... (?)

If the next step would be following dc_homeplumber's advice:


A commercial plumbing supplier that deals primarily in high-end will probably be your best source.

So, does anyone have a high-end commercial plumber that they recommend? I've trolled about on as many plumbing sites as I can find, but I'm just not finding what I'm looking for.

I'll show you what I have found:

As mentioned before, there is the gorgeous Schell GmbH + Co. KG: Schellomat Edition WC flush valve. I'm apprehensive of the potential sticker shock, as I still haven't been able to communicate with anyone that can quote me a price. They have no distribution in the States, which means I would have to order it from overseas (with a weak American Dollar exchange rate), and pay to have it shipped. The additional unexplained fact that my wife is opposed to the push button design (I'm going to give some quick, but unnecessary back-story here: We had a flushometer in our last apartment {non-lowflow, unlimiting, and no longer produced model} and I, like many men, have the habit of flushing with my foot- i.e.: stepping on the low lever to flush. She frequently got on my case about this behavior. With a pushbutton, I pretty well be forced to flush with the button. I genuinely thought she'd love the button design, but it got the adamant 'thumbs down'). Hence, the Schell is no longer being considered, so I post this here only for educational purposes, as it were:


Will this flush valve work with a Toto CT705L tankless toilet?


(read with German accent)
I have no idea what for an toilet the TOTO CT705L is but it is not necessary. The only things that are of interest are:

You must have a pressure of minimum 1,0 bar, better will be 1,3 bar.
Your pipes must have a diameter of 1 ".
You have to regulate the flow to 1,2 l/s.

http://en.red-dot.org/rd/img/100/2004-07-1414-a.jpg


-----------------------------

If I cannot find what exactly I'm looking for then the Sloan GEM is the leading candidate.

http://sweets.construction.com/mfg/2779/E55419.jpg


-----------------------------

I also found this work of art, made by a company in India called Jaquar & Company. Unfortunately, they don't even have a website and the importer/exporter that works with them only takes orders is the thousands, so I don't think I'll be buying one.

http://img.alibaba.com/photo/10857162/Flush_Valve.jpg


-----------------------------

A well engineered apparatus is a beautiful thing, even when it's a toilet flush valve.




-

jadnashua
03-30-2006, 09:01 PM
Do you have room in the wall for an automatic valve or considered one that attaches to the toilet directly? Like in some airports, and commercial buildings it senses the heat of a person sitting on the thing, then flushes when they get up. They usually have a manual flush, too. Some of these are quite sleek. Toto makes some at www.totousa.com and others. Those we have at work (I'm on travel right now so I can't look at the brand) are quite small and clean looking. Those have a small button on the side to manually flush it, if so desired.

SteveW
03-30-2006, 09:46 PM
1. Note that dc_homeplumber said to seek out a "commercial plumbing supplier," not a plumber. Surely Manhattan must have a number of such places -- usually in the yellow pages under "plumbing fixtures, parts & supplies" -- both retail and wholesale. The wholesale ones may be a good bet; they may or may not sell directly to you, but at least they can tell you over the phone what lines they carry.

2. Go back to hj's post -- 2nd from the very beginning of this thread -- where he recommended Sloan/Zurn flushometers for servicability. I'm no expert on flushometers, but from everything I've read on this site about folks who bought expensive European faucets, they tend to regret it when looking for parts.

Sloan makes chrome, satin-finish, brass, and gold-plated flushometers...

dc_homeplumber
03-31-2006, 03:47 AM
An upscale interior designer might also be a good source to find suppliers for something other than the typical American commercial-type flush valve.

Don't get huffy, Chris, but I have to throw this out there as yet another alternative. You might even like it since you will gain even more space. Have you considered any of the toilet models where the "tank" is totally concealed inside the wall?

jimbo
03-31-2006, 07:35 AM
You have not offended anyone. But to almost all of us here on this forum, NYC is not actually on the same planet! What I mean is, it is a big city, and completely foreign to us. High rise buildings are a whole different animal in many ways, including plumbing. Many of us have never been above the 3rd floor!


Anyway, for the rest of suburban America, the realities of the construction business are that no one would pay what the kind of devices you are looking at would cost. If you hang around this forum, you will find many many homeowners posting complaining about having to spend $300 for a new toilet. They are looking for something under $150. My guess is that just that flushometer you are looking at would run much more than $300.

SO, we just don't have any experience in the area that you are looking for.

breplum
03-31-2006, 06:29 PM
Here in California, we have high-end plumbing showrooms, you might check out same in NYC. That way you might end up with something which will be code approved as well - if that matters.

Sadly, my experience with European-only products is that without repair parts and local customer support, the end user is in a very tough situation...I have no customers who ended up happy after the costs of metric adaptation and lack parts were understood.

If you haven't already, do check out the Toto Neorest toilets, they solve the volume issue you speak of.
http://www.totousa.com/productpage.asp?PID=804
and
http://www.totousa.com/productpage.asp?PID=692

Noone can argue that the European's don't have some incredibly advanced designs; totally different world of products.

Chris_G
04-21-2006, 10:01 PM
In the end, I went with the Toto flushometer, to accompany the Toto toilet. I had hoped for something with a more angular appearance (it is a little bulbous on top), but I know this will be compatible with the Toto bowl.

FYI- We're not in a highrise. It's a turn of the century, former tenament building, converted to owner-occupied co-op (with floor through conversion).

When the place is done I'll try to remember to post some photos.

Also, for the record, I'm not some rich guy. My wife and I have done well trading up. She had a studio. When we married, we traded up to a one bedroom, and now we're planning for a child, and recently traded up to this two bedroom. As with our previous apartment, we bought a fixer-upper in an up-n-coming neigborhood to buy cheep for sq. footage, and then renovate. About half or more of the last reno was a DIY job. This time we bought a real bombed out dump with lots of exposed brick. We're in the process of gutting the place, this time leaving all the work to professionals. Before we purchased it, it could have been a crack den, and the fresh coat of flat super-white couldn't hide it. Though I don't work in architecture, and I'm not licensed, it was my educational background, so this home has really been my passion. Our hope, should we be successful enough one day to pull it off, is that I will design a freestanding weekend house in the country for us. There is also another tangential motive- I'd like to take a stab at drumming up some interior design work on the side, and if so, this apartment will be my primary portfolio piece.

Thank you to everyone who provided feedback.

SteveW
04-22-2006, 04:22 AM
Best of luck to you, Chris! Sounds like a neat project. We'll look forward to those photos. FWIW sounds to me like you've made a great choice with the Toto unit -- even if you feel you've compromised a bit on the design end, you'll more than make up for it with easy of compatibility, future repairs, and reliability. I have a feeling it'll grow on you.

Good luck, too, on your most important project, planning your family!