Did I get ripped off with new water heater?

[mdhouseowner]

Did I get ripped off?

OK, I’m not sure why I approached this without my usually carefulness. Anyway, it was time for a new electric water heater (52 gallons) in my house. The old one still worked, but was showing signs of age.

So, I called a reputable plumbing company and scheduled an appointment. When they arrived they said it would cost $1299 to replace the water heater and that they could do it right now. Without thinking too much about it, I said OK. They went to work and less than two hours later the new heater was installed.

But then I thought that the price was a little high and called some other plumbing companies who quoted me $600-$900 for a similar sized and quality heater.

Now I have this sinking feeling that I was ripped off. So my questions are:

1. Did it totally mess up by paying $1299 for a new electric water heater with installation in suburban Maryland?
2. Is there anything I can do about it now?

Lessons learned: Do your research…. :mad:

[finnegan]

It is hard to say without seeing the installation and knowing the type of heater installed, but yes that sounds a little high.

[hj]

If everyone is quoting prices in the same range and this one is much higher, probably because you called one of the nationally advertised franchises, then you probably did pay too much. But at this point there is nothing you can do about it. There is no rule that says they have to match someone else's prices so they can charge whatever the customer will agree to pay. There is not much, if any, difference between heaters, unless they used one with an extended, more than 6 years, warranty, or some other "special" model. Self-cleaning not being a feature that warrants an extra charge. Personally, I would love to be able to install water heaters for $1,200 apiece, and do several a day.

[mdhouseowner]

Well, it was just a local plumber and they installed a 52gallon A.O. Smith heater with 6years warranty. Nothing fancy.

[Cass]

Sounds like you did pay a little more than you might have.

But I can say with almost 100% surety that I doubt it will happen again.

[master plumber mark]

I wish I could charge that all day long......

but for some reason because my business name begins
with a W instead of an A , I get the smarter shoppers
that start looking from the BACK OF the YELLOW PAGES

Now if I had the brass kahonneys--or gall ---or greed
to even quote 1299 to my loyal customers they
would probably throw me out
of the house...

I dont know where you are inthe USA but in the mid-west
the average price range is from 550 through 900..

I usually try to get 650....

maybe 800 with a thermal expansion tank and a pan

you can always call them back and raise cain about it....
and ask for a price break down ect....

or call the BBB


but then again they didnt twist your arm and force you
to do this so basically a deal is a deal..

[Cass]

$600-$900 is the going rate around here also.

[lithnights]

$600-$900 is the going rate around here also.

Is that install or heater plus install?

[master plumber mark]

650 means with the water heater, labor, install, and
6 year warranty tank, 6 [parts, 2 labor...warranty


I am sure if you call them they will probably claim

--if you push them -- that they gave you some sort of

"life time warranty" or "delux" unit.....


if it is a SMITH unit its probably only a 6 year water heater

if it is a Conservationist Smith uniit its a 10 year unit


the 10 year unit from us usually costs INSTALLED around $850


I have heard all this before......from customers on the phone

with buyers remorse.....

just call them and question them about the bill

they will probably hem -haw on the phone with you..

and if pushed --or threatend with a complaint to the BBB

they will probably drop it down to someting lower...


its more up to you--- how angry you are ---- that will determine
the outcome....

[hj]

But if they are like some of the companies around here, they just want to get into every house one time, they are not concerned about repeat business, unless the customer is a masochist, or believes that because they charge a lot more, they are a better company.

[lithnights]

So what of that cost is actual labor? My gas water heater is going on 12 years and I'm planning on replacing it soon.

Wondering whether I should pay or just do it myself one afternoon. I'll get local quotes but just wondering what install is for you all?

Thanks,

[Cass]

That is hard to say because you will pay more than a plumber for a heater because you buy 1 and we buy 100s.

[master plumber mark]

I usually leave the job when the customer gets out

a stop watch and starts to time me ......


Once I even asked a guy if he timed himself in the shower too...LOL
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Lowes and HOME DEPOT usually charge about 200 bucks

for their dummies to come out and installl their water heaters...


usually when you buy one from a plumber you are getting
someone more competent,
and you are probably getting a better service warranty
on the water heater......2+ years service for free....
and your small town plumber will honor that warranty too...



genereally you get what you pay for....

if you dont want anything more from someone than just an install

and not someone that will take care of other emergency problems in your

home on a cold and snowey night, when those needs arise, call LOWES


If you arent willing to let your local small business man

make a living too, by getting out the stop watch and

whineing and haggleing with him over 50- 100 bucks...


Just call Lowes and they will send out the "A" team...

hell--you might even get someone that can speak english..

they might look like extras in the movie "Deliverance "
but you got a cheap price.....and thats what counts...
-------------------------------------------------------------------

In a few years from now when all the small guys are out of buseinss
and you cant find any small plumbers in the yellow pages willing to fix a faucet
or do any small jobs.....for a fair price......

or basically not even walk in your house .for under $300 or so....


you will know why...



enough pontificateing for now...

[Mikey]

I bought a 50 gallon Whirlpool "Energy Smart" water heater from Lowe's just about 4 years ago for $298. (God knows who really made it. The data plate says "US/Craftmaster", the warranty says "Whirlpool", and the copyright on the Installation Guide says "American Water Heater Company".) It has a "Limited lifetime" warranty, which basically covers everything one might reasonably expect to be covered for my lifetime in the original installed location. Schlepped it home in my truck and had it installed in about an hour. Total time spent shopping, schlepping, and installing was about 3 hours. But, I enjoy doing things like that. If you don't, and have a lot more idle cash than I do, you might considered it a bargain. Even considering overhead and other pro-type issues, though, and based on what others have said, I think it was a poor deal at best.

[hj]

That is hard to say because you will pay more than a plumber for a heater because you buy 1 and we buy 100s.

But that does not mean he will sell it to you for less than HD or Lowes, however. He will mark it up to make a profit, which will also cover his implied warranty to you in case there is a problem with the heater. I really do not break a water heater installation down into labor and materials.

[malder]

$600 for a new W/H? Are you insane? Who can make money on that? Are you a charity? Materials alone are close to that much on a new w/h install.

It's odd to me that so many plumbers are so eager to tell homeowners how they got ripped off. Then some of you go on to say you wish you could charge that much. Have you ever tried? Maybe you can't because you don't back that price up with value.

Charging higher prices does not make you a better company. Charging higher prices enables you to be a better company. Big difference. Are you driving a broken down truck? Are you working 50-60 hrs/wk and still bringing home $50k/yr? Still charging $80/hr? Are your skills not worth more than a menial living? I know mine are. As long as you don't value YOUR expertise and ability to serve your customer, then you will never be bold enough to DEMAND a decent wage. When you are ready, then I suggest you double your rates, double your customer service and join a contractors group to get yourself off the bottom. Service Roundtable (http://serviceroundtable.com) is a great start.

Don't tell me that if I charge $XXX for a job that I will have no repeat customers and everyone I serve will be getting ripped off. I have plenty of repeat customers and the vast majority are thrilled at paying substantially more than $1299 for a new W/H. I know because we ask them. Then again we offer an awesome value for that, so that's what really matters.

Sorry for the rant. The sooner we all value our expertise and stop worrying about the 'going rate', the better for everyone.

Feel free to tell me how greedy I am. Tell me what a bad person I am, etc...

Malder

[Cass]

Tell me,
What is a low price, what is a high price, and what is the median price for you (Malder)to install a 50 gallon electric Rheem water heater with no obstructions in the way and no upgrades in a walkin basement?

Lets say a 5-6 hour job from first contact to finish.

[jk60]

Don't tell me that if I charge $XXX for a job that I will have no repeat customers and everyone I serve will be getting ripped off. I have plenty of repeat customers and the vast majority are thrilled at paying substantially more than $1299 for a new W/H. I know because we ask them. Then again we offer an awesome value for that, so that's what really matters. Malder

Two years ago I paid $279 for a Rheem 50 gallon gas water heater. Plumber came in and charged me $125 to install plus he took the old heater with him. So the grand total was $404. Today I would do this job myself, but that's another story. So what is it that you offer exactly that would lead me to not only consider paying you more then $1299 for a new W/H but on top of that to be thrilled with this prospect?

[hj]

5 to 6 hours to install a 50 gallon water heater? If I cannot install the new one in about the same time the old one finishes draining, I usually consider it a "tough" job.

[Mikey]

My (30 year?) old WH took over a day to drain. I wanted to see how bad it was inside, so I cut it open. Damn good thing my wife didn't see what was in there.

The new one started to produce stinky water after a year or so. Tried to drain, but it drained very slowly -- looked like another 1-day affair -- but little balls of white solids came out. I figured they were clogging the drain so I just squirted some compressed air up the drain hose (yes, the WH was disconnected) to keep the stuff suspended, and it drained OK in about half an hour. (The drain valve is a plastic thing I didn't want to try to remove.) The white stuff, of course, turned out to be what was left of the anode rod. Replaced it with an aluminum rod on the recommendation of Whirlpool, but I think there are better ones for my problem. In any event, it doesn't make stinky water any more, and drains readily.

[master plumber mark]

thank you for that site...address...


gosh all this great information, for only 50 bucks a month....


I dont know how to thank you...


I think I will take some of the advice I read and
send my employees birthday cards like it says I should...

[Mike50]

Spend a few minutes looking over Matt Michel's Service Roundtable organization and you'll be amazed. It is truly unbelievable and I'm thinking this may be a real entertainment value I should consider. OMG

AFAIAC if the 50 dollars includes a daily wakeup call...count me in dammit.

[Cass]

5 to 6 hours to install a 50 gallon water heater? If I cannot install the new one in about the same time the old one finishes draining, I usually consider it a "tough" job.

Agree with you hj,

I just wanted to give him time to do the job right :) and see what the charge would be for that much time.

I have a feeling we won't hear from him on this issue, but maybe he'll prove me wrong.

I'm guessing for that price he is waxing the WH, and having the floors professionaly cleaned and sealed. Maybe painting the walls also.

[Cal]

Fellas,

I live in the North East / Northern Virginia / Maryland /Wash.D.C. area as does the original poster on this issue. Yeah,,I do think $1299 is HIGH for a 50 gal /elec......

BUT, let me say this ,,IF you don't live here and have to pay the taxes and other EXUBERANT prices we do then , no one has a real bases to speak to the price.

I think $ 950 to $1050 would be the right price, NOT $ 600-$650. Believe me this plumber would be out of buisness in 3 months.You CANNOT survive here on that little for jobs.

Hell my house assesment went up $ 90K from last year. So everybody says," That's great ! Your house is worth alot more " Yeah, but I still gotta live here AND pay the xtra taxes . It is NOt easy for any of us plumbers , but priceing cannot be the same nation wide.

My service rate ,1st 1/2 hour = $105 and I'm considered CHEAP ! I charge that and still think I'm high,,,,, The system is out of whack !

Cal

[Cass]

Yes there may be places that the rates are very high, but that is not the general rule.

Malder must be very buisy installing, the $1,299.00 and HIGHER he said, water heaters as he hasn't responded to any one yet.

He mentioned he had repete customers.

I do beleive him.

I wonder if he would honestly tell us what the ratio of repete customers to 1 time customers was.

Mr. Malder here is another interesting question for you IF you can answer it.

What would you consider a extremely high price for installing a water heater?

I bet you can't answer this one.

[master plumber mark]

I think you will find he just blew
through here to promote a web site ho owns
that basically costs $50 per month to
be a member of...


I went their an d looked some of it over......the free stuff...
not too bad, but nothing I hve not heard before........
wether any of the information is worth a nickle or not
remains to be seen....

no will he get $50 bucks out of me to tell me how
to sell water heaters for $1500 ,

well .........maybe for one month.... just to satisify my
curousity.

[Mike50]

I think you will find he just blew
through here to promote a web site ho owns
that basically costs $50 per month to
be a member of...


I went their an d looked some of it over......the free stuff...
not too bad, but nothing I hve not heard before........
wether any of the information is worth a nickle or not
remains to be seen....

no will he get $50 bucks out of me to tell me how
to sell water heaters for $1500 ,

well .........maybe for one month.... just to satisify my
curousity.


I'm not a plumber but I got more and more curious with each page of that website I read...then I googled the guy. I haven't seen that much bullshit in one place in a long time.

He makes some outrageous claims. I read for about 20 minutes and I could not find what they give you for 50 bucks.
I know some of you guys make some good money-and you earn every cent imo.
Mr. Michel claims he has an enormous membership base (cant recall the figure) and goes on to say that the average individual member (not company) grosses 1.8 million per year in income. That's a pretty interesting figure because I know some do. average?

As in my profession I'm sure there are some guys out there struggling as well.


In any event, the whole thing walks like a duck. I will say one thing for the guy-he knows how to feed search engines. It's all over... :D

[Cass]

Had a call from a customer today. Her sister had just been quoted $1350.00 to have a 40 gal. gas water heater installed and would I go look at the job and give a estimate.

I went and customer stated that he had used the hose and watered the lawn for 1/2 hour came in and 2 hrs later noticed that the rug was wet. Called this plumber and when he got there explained to the plumber what happened.

The plumber said it couldn't be the hose bib as the wall would be soaked and he had seen that a 100 times that the water heater just expelled gallons of water but he couldn't tell from where but that it definately was the water heater and it needed to be replaced.

I said to him you stand here ( inside the house by the hose bib) I turned on the hose bib for about 2 seconds and you could hear the water running, so could he.

Needsless to say I gained a new customer.

[dave007]

i knew i should have listened to my daddy and become a plumber.
I'd be retired at 45.

$1200 for a water heater install........
you can buy all tha parts at home depot for less than $300.

[dubldare]

(Not to make light of your predicament, but I have to vent a bit.)

Yeah, but for $1200 you probably get some guy who has been a plumber for 3 weeks to do the job for ya. He's watched all the videotapes, so he's qualified. Plus, he has a photo id/nametag, AND he wears nice booties over his tennis shoes. Yeah, he spends a long time on the phone while he's there (asking questions) but you percieve that as him being 'a man in demand'. When he got done you probably got a buttload of coupons for future use, a nice magnet for your fridge, a bunch of tags on the valves in your house along with a mint on your pillow. Heck, it wouldn't surprise me if they put a sign in your front yard.

Unless you had this heater replaced on a weekend, you should've also gotten a nice, soothing suppository and ointment for your bum.

But you were probably just blown away by "the water heater is a major appliance in your home" shpiel, or the "we can juggle some jobs around and get there right away", as well as the upfront pricing you were provided.

A simple 40 gal gas replacement should run 3 hours, slightly more if the call did not come in as a wh changeout. The very top, difficult changeout, would run 5 hours, but that is very rare. Where I work, if the heater isn't drained by the time we're done with the install, we'll send a couple of runners out later to get it.

BTW, was the installation inspected?



I know how upfront pricing for the most part screws the customer. I've made the mistake of taking some vehicles in for service. While it's very rare to pay more than what you're quoted, if you break it down, you're getting hosed sometimes. But, that's the price you pay for a quote. Espescially when you factor in that in many cases there is a commission involved. Some plumbers are paid a base wage (very low) plus a commission on sales. They only make money on $$$ sales, not on repairs.

Too many times when I've verbally ballparked a job for, let's say, $400 to $600, and the price comes out to $500, all the customer can remember is $400, so they're now pissed, even though they were billed t&m.

It's a total psychological game. I guess you look like the good guy if you play off someone's fear (of paying too much) by giving them an astronomical, up front number, to ease their mind of paying what it actually takes to do the job. That is unless you have a smart customer who is capable of simple division.

[master plumber mark]

that was a very good oratory...

with the big comission companies, its all smoke and morrors....

that is what the customer wants these days.....
Their EGO STROKED---they would rather pay a ton of money
and get some sweet smelling guy waling in their house
like a butler to serve them.....

price is no object to some and that is
who they are trying to cater to.

their are people in our town that actually call the
most expensive plumbers because they want to show
all the other neighbors around them that they can actually afford them....



I usually give my estimates to people with a

"not to exceed price" If I ballpark it at 400, I usually mnetion
if for unforseen reasons the price wont exceed this much..

it seems to make them happy.

[Cass]

The company that quoted the $1350.00 works on a split commission. The labor charge above the material costs is split with the owner of the company.

[canton]

I charge $250 for a water heater install, plus the cost of the w.h and a 20% markup on the supplies. It usually takes me about 3 hrs, everyone's happy.

[Dunbar Plumbing]

I quit doing water heater replacements all together. Tired of the price shopping.

You win price shoppers, you happy now?

My answer now is "We're not available." I then give a number to someone who has the patience to deal with it. Some actually sound disappointed that I won't do it. Only for the reason that I was referred to them or someone has told them about my professionalism.

That is when I throw the evil grin as I say goodbye on the phone. Feels good that I can toss those calls that never seems to be worth the trouble. My back thanks me as well for no more torture pulling those up and down steps or putting them in the truck.




FREEDOM!

[Cass]

Send me your Cinci calls and I'll be glad to do them.

[master plumber mark]

do whatever floats your boat....

though I agree with you to a point ,
I turn down some that are trying to haggel
with me about price and brand...

thats why I set up my web site ----they see all the complaints
for themselves on line then its real to them....
then they know I am not just leiing to them...
------------------------------------------------------------

I would rather put in three heaters a day than crawl around in
crap, or clean out sewers ankle deep in fun..

....or wrench my neck out of socket trying
to repalce a kitchen faucet in a cock roach ridden kitchen sink....

or get screwed over for 12k by some dis-honest builder woh wont
pay for the plumbing system I installed for him...

-------------------------------------------------------------------

their are far , far worse jobs....
and actually if someone wants me to come out
and install some piece of junk they bought at LOWEs,

its no big deal because I will still get about 250 if they want to
pay it.. its just another customer to me...

Its just another place I can plaster my name all over all their
appliances for the future repairs.....I have about 175,000 stickers out
their on furnaces , water heaters, disposals ect
just waiting for troubles to start.



today I am putitng in two gas for about 745 each....


I average 2 a day--- and thats more than many peopel make in a
full week of work....


I know sometimes its hard to do
but try to be grateful

[Dunbar Plumbing]

I wrote a long-winded response earlier today to this topic and the server this site is on froze up again. :mad: :mad:


Long story short. I don't do the nasty calls anymore, I have a large call volume that allows me to pick and choose my battles. I'm not going to risk a body injury over a water heater install anymore. Customers know that it is more grunt work than it is knowledge on how to replace (4 connections most times) a water heater. I worked for an outfit where we installed 2 to 5 water heaters a day. I did that for a year and I'm sure I didn't do myself any favors cranking dielectrics down all the time. I know a guy who did it every day for 6 years and now he's disabled. I can't ruin a good thing right now.

I paid my dues and now it's okay to let the competition win the hemorrhoid award.

[rdtompki]

I'm a typical consumer with some DIY skill, but a lot of DIY experience. A water heater installation is not the sort of thing I would get multiple quotes for. It's easy enough to research the cost of the unit. You're going to pay a markup on top of that . When you call the plumber to get an estimate ask the cost and how long it will take. If the labor sounds high, then try someone else. You need to take into account that you're paying for the tradesmans transit time. A water heater install may only be 3 hours, but time to/from the site might have been a total of an hour. If you're in a high cost of living area, then you're going to pay more. BTW, I did install a gas water heater myself, but I would have paid $300 in a heartbeat to have someone else do it.

[Dunbar Plumbing]

abikerboy,


Your purchase/installation of a water heater for that price with the commitment of coming back twice a year for the next 5 years @ no charge is not financial common sense for the one offering it. Now if he lives down the street from you that is one thing, but I can never offer anything like that without considering myself either desperate or willing to work for a reduced rate so low that I might as well be working @ Lowe's for 7 bucks an hour. When you figure in the costs incurred for his time over the next 5 years including the initial install, he's not making profit, he's just turning numbers. It's good you found someone like this. You can benefit from his work practices.

If I put in a water heater and had just one callback, my time is just the same as a 1 trip service call which equates to around $100. If I put the heater in for a set price below the hourly average I make, then of course I've slashed my throat on the profit margin.

I offer my customers a follow-up letter after the 1st year anniversary of WH replacement for instructions how-to drain the water heater or the charge of $49 to come out and drain it. The ratio is 1 out of 10 that call me to do the drain-down but it pays for the expense of those 10 letters. And most times it's "while you're here would you take care of this" situation that unfolds and combines the charges to make it a worthwhile visit.

Giving plumbing services away sets you up to be taken advantage of your kindness towards others. I don't expect those who pay me for my time to go to work and not get paid for what they earn, they shouldn't expect it from me as well.

[Dunbar Plumbing]

He charged $454 for labor which includes the extended warranty

He charged $275 for the heater, he might of had some profit hidden in that number, maybe

You mentioned he gave materials away, pan, pipe/fittings > Figure $30

Including the initial install, he committed to coming out 10 more times which gives a total of 11 visits to your home.

If you divide $450 by 11 visits it will equate to $40.91 BEFORE TAXES, before accounting for hours involved driving to and from, the initial install, and time to do whatever might occur/required maintenance in those 5 years. And what happens if the tank busts???????? He eats the price of that install? Sheesh!!!!!!!! :eek: :eek: Only if he is an authorized rep for that product he installed will he be covered for his time.Otherwise, he's lost his gamble on the bet that the heater will last beyond that 5 years and I've put my hands on a few water heaters that were screwing up/leaking before their warranty expired. The materials for that install was at least $30 figuring a set of dielectrics, little bit of copper pipe and fittings, the pan along with PVC pipe and fittings to get to the drain. That I did not remove from the total price but if your numbers are tight, subtract another $2.72 from the $40.91 above.
Gimme this guy's number. He can do my plumbing cheaper than I can do even my own!:rolleyes:

The real truth is, he's working for around $20 an hour giving work away like that. Send him christmas cards and birthday cards to his children all the time for such charity. He deserves it.

[master plumber mark]

give this fellow some time and he will wise up on his own...

their are a million stories out there and
perhaps he is probably trying to
build up his business or he is simply a one man operation...


being a one man operation is ok and reallly you can charge whatever
you darn well feel like to each customer you run into...

I have a few customers that I despise and I charge them through the nose,
and others that I give it away to like some elderly old customers some time I dont charge them at all,,,..it all really depends more on their atitude


Being a one man operation can be highly lucurative all in all...
no matter what you charge it seems to workout pretty well
sprinkle a little charity work in there along the way dont hurt
the bottom line either.

like yesterday, 2 water heaters, 1 garbage disposal.......

its all good...

[Cass]

I think I have said this B4 but

Plumbing is one of the trades that has been under valued for years.

The reason is because come guy learns how to solder a fitting and cut and glue 2 peices of pipe and proclames him self a plumber. Can you hear this:

"Oh I can fix that It easy I know how to do plumbing"

I just went over to a friends resturant that he just bought in a near by county and another friend had installed a hand wash sink. What a joke.
The thing is the county Health Dept. didn't care that it wasn't installed with a permit pulled.

The good ole boy network I guess.

[Dunbar Plumbing]

Send me your Cinci calls and I'll be glad to do them.


They are few and far between; I only do work for Angie's List members in Ohio and rarely do I do water heaters across the river. I do get calls sometimes for rental properties up there if you want those. They never fully read my info sheet on what I will and will not do, including outside work.


MPM,

I am a one-man band myself and I couldn't afford to drop my rates/prices to the ground level this guy is. I as well give charity when the situation dictates the reason. Now if the guy is telling everyone about him, then maybe reverse psychology is the intent.

[lithnights]

Just wanted to chime in here...

I am not a plumber, nor claim to be, but I have learned a lot of plumbing by redoing my house over the past 3 years, as well as reading lots of books, articles and living on this site... ;)

Anyway, my gas water heater burst last week.. after sucking up a couple hundred gallons from my unfinished basement I got to work replacing the old unit. Here was my timeline...

Turning off main water shut off and cutting the hot and cold connections.......... 5 minutes
Turn off the gas shutoff and disconnect the gas line and vent stack......... 5 minutes
Opened the drain line to let it drain while I went off to buy a new one.......... 1 minute
Trip to Home Depot, buy heater, and return 30 minutes
Bringing it downstairs with a friend and set into place......... 10 minutes
Measure the new pipe and solder the fittings and even new cold shut off....... 30 minutes
Connect the gas line using flex.......... 10 minutes
Bring the old one upstairs and to the trash........... 5 minutes
Turn on the shutoff to fill the heater and light the pilot light........... 5 minutes

Now this added up to about 1 hour and 45 minutes. I guess my question is…and believe me when I say I don’t want to sound condescending, but why would it take an expert longer… especially if buy the water heater on the way to the job. I can see travel time would add on the time what else? Lowes was going to charge me $300 for labor.

I'm not trying to say people shouldn't pay a plumber but in my situation, by knowing a bit about gas lines, soldering, and a willingness to learn I managed to work for about 2 hours and save $300. So basically I earned $150 an hour doing it. Much better salary I get by going into the office.

Of course not everyone can replace their own heater but for those that do, I totally understand why they do it. And now I'll know how to do it 8-10 years from now as well.

[Dunbar Plumbing]

It's great that you can do your water heater replacements. I'm hoping all my customers will do the same so I don't have to keep saying no. You'd think I would be the first to push tankless since I would be able to carry it in without injury.

I mentioned on one of these threads that sometimes I can replace a water heater in 45 minutes but that is thumping. I really cannot do that anymore, especially if I'm charging hourly. You'd be furious if I charged you $300 for replacement and be gone in an hour......as opposed to 2.5 to 3 hours, the equation looks better.

My job as a licensed plumber is to correct any code violations, you mentioned one, flex supply to the gas thermostat. Not code in KY, it is in CA for earthquake reasons. The inspectors don't go for flex because someone could drop a broom handle down on that line or even worse, a kid playing around the heater rams his toy wagon or plastic wheeled toy into it and creases a hole into the line where it didn't budge at the valve. Believe me, it can happen. Running black iron isn't really bad if it is there to begin with but sometimes alignment can be fun. A little more time.

Plumbers sometimes charge permit fees(required in all states, some cannot get around this process, some do) and just the location in a home can be a real time killer. I did one last year that was a walkout basement, but had to park 3 blocks away because of its urban setting. That sucked! If I would of flat rated that call before I arrived to view it's surrounding, I guarantee you I would of raised my price, no doubt in my mind.

So I hope you can see the reasoning behind the numbers; you might do 1 out of 8 that are easy, and then end up doing the next two that you lose your tail on. Some are really difficult and for no reason other than the modifications to install them.

Here's a good one, switch from a A.O. Smith PowerVent to a GE PowerVent in a closet with no room in it. That, is fun.

[Cass]

Lithnights, Do you know how many people can't do that.

Lets say I'm 1 hr from my customer and they can't tell me what size heater it is(some can't tell me if it is gas or electric) and when I get there i'm 1hr. from my supply house and 1 hour back. I don't buy WHs from big box stores for specific reasons. 3 hours so far and all I have done is connect a hose to drain it down.

[hj]

One last thing. Being an installer for a particular brand does not mean you "recover your labor if it breaks". It means he will get a new heater for you, and YOU will pay the labor to install it. The manufacture, if anything, only gives a small labor allowance if the heater fails within the first 12 months, and you probably would not see that.

[lithnights]

Rugged/Cass,

I see your points. And I guess I am lucky that I have reached the point where I can do so much on my own.. to a point of course.

I guess what it comes down to is, even if it does take longer than my 1 hour 45 minutes, it seems to be pretty good income for that given job. I'm not saying it's not deserved, just saying it's really nice money. Let's say the average heater replacement even takes 4 hours and one gets $300. $75 an hour is some nice money. If one works 8 hours a day earning that every hour, that is my kind of money. In fact, paying that type of money while making my kind of money is what has pushed me to learn basic electricity, carpentry, plumbing etc. over the past 3 years.

Makes me want to quit my job, get licensed, and become a plumber.. ;)

[casman]

[QUOTE=Cass]I think I have said this B4 but

Plumbing is one of the trades that has been under valued for years.

The reason is because come guy learns how to solder a fitting and cut and glue 2 peices of pipe and proclames him self a plumber. Can you hear this:

"Oh I can fix that It easy I know how to do plumbing"


Being under valued in my opinion is caused by the profession itself, not necessarily by some guy figuring out how to do it. There are always lots of people that try to do all kinds of stuff themselves, can it be done, sure, done right?/ depends.

In my area you'd be lucky if they even show up, let alone put it in. All the ads say "We come out same day", then you call them all, one after another, and they all say we will give you an apt in like 5 days. I had a guy finally show up for my Sat apt., he looks at my old wh, then he says uh O, I gotta call my boss, he goes outside for this, comes back and tells me my vent piping also needs to be replaced, This opinion, after he placed his hand on it, and he'd do it for 400 more, then says how long you lived here? I told him 2 years, and the venting was put in 2 weeks ago, stuff was brand new, liner, along with 2 furnaces, 2 a/c units, 2 humids etc., I told him just put in the water heater, he goes out and says Oh man, it's not on the truck and he'd have to come back Monday. I'd of rather paid the 1299 and been done with it in 2 hours, same day, stead of waiting over a week, having cold water and a wife nagging for 10 days. And you know what, If I was overcharged a bit and they finished in 20 minutes so what, I'm an adult and free to say no. Instead I get nobody coming out, no shows, a show up but without the heater, put value on that? and finally I was forced to be "some Guy" that figured out how to do it, not that I wanted to, and yup, if I had to I could do it again.

[JULIE23]

50 gallon replaced A/O 650.00

Milwaukee Wis 9 year warranty I believe.