Interesting Sunday Morning- electrical question for everybody

Master Plumber Mark

Master Plumber Mark

Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls
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Got a call this morning from one of my customers....

their sump pump had failed and they fiddled with it trying to get
itto run.....

They woke up to 8 inches of water in the basement
it was an unfinished basement, but their was work out equipment
a television set, sterio--- computor on a strip cord--
and various items still plugged into
power when I arrived.....

in fact their are hot plugs that were still laying in water
strewn all about the basement floor.....


Now my question about electricity......

The lady homeowner was walking around in this basement all
morning long trying to salvage thiings in her BARE FEET

I toldher to get the hell up the stairs...

So basically, what kept her from getting killed?????

I would think that is a pretty good ground,


a guardian Angel???


I am no tfooling around about this, I really want to
understand how she did not get lit up.....
 
Good question mark

Basically, it would have to come down to this. One, pure water is actualy an insulator, but I doubt the water in her basement was void of any mineral content. A high content would have made the water conductive and slide down the conductivity scale as the mineral content moves toward zero. Two, human skin is less conductive when we are colder and more when we are warmer. The skin's resistance to current flow varies from person to person and is inflenced by many factors connected with the bodies physical condition. Third, elctricity will seek the least resistive path to ground. I would say that your conclusion that her power distribution system "had a good ground" was spot on. Apparently, the combination of the water's conductivity level and her skin's restistance to current flow was greater than the path to ground through the equipment ground system. Stay safe brother.

Chris
 
a live wire

what you are saying is that the electricty already had a
ground and did not need anything from her....
to make a good ground into the water...

I am under the assumption that the water
might and could "bite you in the ass" just for kicks....
I will always assume that this is possible
its just safer that way----- to wear rubber boots-----



now if she would have picked up a live wire
out of the water , then she and her bare feet
would have made a good ground for that wire
if it were to short while in her wet hand.......


Either way,
this lady has spent at least half of her 9 lives today....

yes she should probably buy some lotery tickest.....
 
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hot foot!

I would think that the power strip that everything was plugged into would have had a over load protection on it that would / should have blow when the water got to it. The mian breaker in the electric box should also have blown. Do you know if the power strip was still working?
 
A power strip will have both the hot wire and the ground wire within 1/2" of each other, effectively shorting out the potential field. Also, any electrical potential in the water would be grounded to the floor.

Since the water is in contact with the ground at all places, there is no potential voltage between the water and the soles of her feet.

You get electrocuted with electricity going through you from a high voltage to ground. Birds sit on 50,000 Volt wires without getting electrocuted.

This is different than the circumstances in a bathtub which is probably insulated by the enamel or plastic. If you drop a hair dryer into the water, it is possible (though not certain) that the water can become electrified, so if you contact the supply pipe, which is grounded, you can complete the circuit through your body.
 
thank you bob NH

that all sounds pretty convinceing,..
wether all the wires in the water were shorted out or not
I do not know.......I did not care to test them

I just changed out the sump pump
and tomorrow I got to change the burner assembly on
the flooded water heater...

and maybe you are right and everything gets all grounded directly into the concrete....


but I am still wearing my rubber boots...
 
Go Back Tomorrow

ask her to get in a tub full of water, then throw her hair dryer in.

we need to know more about this situation! :rolleyes:
 
water

When she was in the water she was at the same potential, (similar to high line workers who have their bucket clipped the line they are working on). Either the water was "hot" and not grounded, so she would be safe until she touched something at ground potential, or she was at ground potential and was safe until she actually touched a hot wire that was not in the water, (where it would have grounded out and tripped the breaker).
 
hj

to respectfullly correct what you said,


in theory ,------ the hot line would have grounded out and the breaker ""should"" trip.....



I dont think you or me would run around bare foot in a
basement full of wires and accessories

she was just plain lucky
 
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Dear Hot Stuff

You should have got a photo of yourself after the lightning strike. You should write that one into, “believe it or notâ€! I bet you really give your husband a charge….LOL

Mike
 
Mater plumber Mark.

Just a suggestion….you might want to suggest to her in having a licensed electrician to install a GFI main breaker in the main electric panel, (if you don’t feel comfortable doing it yourself). I hate GFI breakers because they trip a lot sometime, but there is a reason they trip. This might save her butt, next time she isn’t so lucky!
(It might take more then one breaker if there is more then one circuit down in the basement). She can also install just GFI receptacles in the basement, and in most cases, one GFI receptacle, can protect all of the rest of the receptacles down line from it, if it’s wired correctly….again, maybe by a licensed electrician.

Mike
 
Mark,

I'm with you . That women had an Angel on her shoulder . I can see,hear and feel water , can smell and hear gas,,,,electricity---NO THANKS !

Will you share those power ball numbers ???
 
leak

I was called to repair a leaking copper line next to a water meter one night while it was raining. I knelt down to put a temporary clamp on it, and a spark jumped from the copper to my finger, then from my steel to to the ground. The man asked, "Did you see that?" I thought he was talking about the spark and said, "Yes, and I felt it, so I will shut the water off and see you in the morning." He said, "No, lightning just stuck that utility pole across the street."

Another time a copper service was leaking and everytime I put my hand in the water to try to find the leak it was like putting it into mild acid. I took my voltmeter and tested the water and it was "live". So I called the electric utility company to check their wires. The wire to the meter was damaged and charging the water, and also caused the deterioration of the copper line.
 
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Better safe than sorry

Hey Mark, It's never a bad idea to wear your "rubbers" just be certain they don't have any holes in them :rolleyes: !! Seriously, any pinholes in your boots would negate your assumed protection. I still say that bottom line she had a higher resistance to ground than the equipment ground. Whether she was at the same potential or not is debateable. Breakers do not always trip when a short occurs. The short must generate enough fault current to trip the breaker. I have seen breakers stay intact after after accidentally cutting across hot/neutral while energized with my strippers. Without checking, I do believe it is NEC code to have GFCI protected outlets in the basement for just this reason. GFCI's work differently than a standard breaker. They constantly monitor the current flow and sense any sharp variance which will cause it to trip. If I am not mistaken the current trip time is 10 milliseconds. Stay safe.


Chris
 
cat

Actually, when I reached about number 8, I took a few years Sabbatical leave from plumbing, to give them time to regenerate back to the full quota of nine.
 
, It's never a bad idea to wear your "rubbers" just be certain they don't have any holes in them :rolleyes:

The minister of a small congretaion's wife became pregnant and so he went to the church board to ask for a raise because of the added expense of the child. The church board, feeling maganimous, agreed and added the provision that the salary would increase with any future children also. When the family had grown to 5 children, there was some disgruntlement about adding to his income. He went before the board and said, "Children are a gift from God'. A little old lady in the back of the church said, "Rain is also a gift from God, but when we get too much of it, we put on rubbers".
 
about 20 yrs ago my nephew got lucky , he lived

doing underground const back east. there was a very old orangeburg pipe
in the underground. wasen't on plans ! standby utility co. [can't say name or city] insisted it wasen't elec. asked twice,was yelled at. he was told by his boss to open it up. he hit it with a 5ft digging bar. 18,000 volts jumped through from the bar arcing to the metal sewer ladder . was given last rites
he received around 1 mill. utility addmitted fault. he's working again,ok
went through hell. inside was a huge old unshielded copper line!
 
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