Shutting off street water main question?

[jk60]

Is there a trick to shutting off the street water main. I bought a special tool and the tip of the tool broke when I tried to turn the valve. Looks like the tool is made out of aluminum. I tried using a big wrench with a huge screw driver through it for leverage and simply could not budge it. I am afraid that I'll break the pipe if I try any harder. HELP!!!

Thank you,

Jerry

[Gary Swart]

Jerry, I can't speak for every meter, but I had the same experience with mine a few years ago when the main shut off valve in my basement broke off. I couldn't budge the meter turn off with anything I could lay my hands on at the time. As soon as possible, I had a welder friend make a turn off key from steel pipe. The handle is about 20" across and it still takes some effort to turn the meter rod. It seems to me that since meters are rarely turned off, they tend to be quite stiff. I'd point out that some cities "frown" on private citizens having a key to the meters, but so long as you use it for legitiment reasons, I doubt if you would ever have a problem. One flooded basement while waiting for a lone emergency city man to come from across town for me to get my own key!

[jk60]

Garry - Thank you for the information. I thought I would include a picture of my shut off valve. Just in case someone asks I was trying to turn it in a clockwise direction so the holes would line up. Off course when that didn't work I tried the other way with no luck either.

[Cass]

Try a curb / street key. It will work or it will break the line. :)

[jk60]

Cass, At the risk of sounding uninformed (well now that I think about it, I am), what is a curb/street key?

Just for reference here is a tool that I bought and could do nothing with.

[hj]

Since that is basically a toy, it is no wonder it would not turn the valve. If you had a real smooth turning valve it would have worked, but then so would a pair of pliers.

[master plumber mark]

anyone mention a basin wrench yet.....??


they sell common 4 foot street keys at LOWES and HOME DEPOT

[Gary Swart]

I'm not all that knowledgable about the various types of keys for water meters, but it does seem than there are various designs. The one in the photo is very different from mine. Point I would make is to get one that is well made to turn little used valves that are difficult to move. However, I would not resort to totally brute force because if you break it, it might be difficult to explain the the city water department. If you can't move it with reasonable effort, call the city. If they break it, it's their problem.

[jk60]

Breaking the valve or pipe is my biggest fear. I am thinking of maybe making some kind of a wooden brace to add additional support to the pipe while trying to turn the valve. Unfortunately I still don't know what a street key looks like. Couldn't find anything on the web. Any additional information or a website with a picture will be helpful. I hate to go to HD or Lowe's uninformed. Nobody there knows much. I was asking a "plumbing expert" at HD recently where they have their pipe vises, and he had no clue what I was talking about.

Thanks for the help!!!

Jerry

[jimbo]

The tool you show is an emergency wrench, and is intended to function as a curb key, But as you found out, it is a lightweight tool. A good curb key will be made of steel, and have longer stronger handles for leverage.

[jk60]

Finally found a website that shows a picture of a curb key. Now I know what to look for. Thanks everyone for your input. If there are any other tricks you can think off please let me know.

Jerry

[toolaholic]

#1 get a larger T wrench . If it is still difficult ,call the water dept. and ask them to replace the valve. i've done this several times for my customers in ca. NO CHARGE. yesterday PACIFIC GAS installed a new gas meter and shut off valve [free] for one of my customers. this was next day service ! the valve was VERY difficult to shut off. here in ca we want to be able to shut off the gas in an e-quake ,fast an easy. On my gas meter, I installed an auto shut off for quakes . hope this helps someone! Tool

[jk60]

Toolaholic, Thanks for the heads up. That is certainly an option that I am going to explore if I can't budge the valve myself.

Jerry

[Oldrem]

Have you contacted your local water dept ? Where I live, it is a free service to have it turned on or off whenever I need it done. If I do it myself and anything breaks I am financially responsible.

[jk60]

I haven't as yet but certainly will give them a call before I do anything.

Thanks,

Jerry

[Yersmay]

I had similar trouble and I called the water department and asked if they could replace the valve. They were very cooperative about it... a guy came out, put a new valve on I can turn with my hand. It might be worth a try to call and ask.

[dubldare]

A little trick up here in the northland (where our curbstops are 6'+ deep) is to pour some coca-cola down the riser. If that doesn't work, get the 'hoe.

[andyprius]

Is there a trick to shutting off the street water main. I bought a special tool and the tip of the tool broke when I tried to turn the valve. Looks like the tool is made out of aluminum. I tried using a big wrench with a huge screw driver through it for leverage and simply could not budge it. I am afraid that I'll break the pipe if I try any harder. HELP!!!

Thank you,

Jerry
The procedure for any frozen nut is to clean with steel brush at joint, soak a little penetrating oil on joint, let set for a while, tap gently with hammer on top to loosen frozen condition, use large wrench 6-12 inches. Never use a wrench extremely large as pipe can break. Then H2O everywhere OR worse yet gas. This particular valve should be bi-directional, BUT don't count on it. Always try CCW first, sometimes it helps to pressure the joint a bit CW to break the frozen joint. Heat (propane torch is another but drastic solution. Last and the best...Call the Utility Company.

[jk60]

soak a little penetrating oil on joint... Always try CCW first, sometimes it helps to pressure the joint a bit CW to break the frozen joint.

With regard to penetrating oil, is there no concern of contaminating the water?

A picture of the valve is above in post #3. I assumed that I need to move it in a CW direction to line up the two holes. Is that a false assumption?

Thanks,

Jerry

[Dunbar Plumbing]

Moving backwards then forwards helps loosen up the motion of the valve. There is a packing gland separating the water in the valve. Oil will not affect it. You will need to get under the tab to make the oil effective.

Using the right tool for the job eliminates the use of oil, let alone the concern about turning off a valve. :confused:

[Gary Swart]

There won't be any oil reach the water, and even if it did, the relatively small amount wouldn't be so diluted it wouldn't be noticable. I wouldn't suggest you use it as a condiment, but it's not deadly poison. All of that aside, since there is concern about this valve being frozen, I would join others and suggest you have the city come and turn this off. If they break it, it's there problem to fix it. If you break it, you very possibly would be held responsible not just for the valve, but for the labor. Once the valve is known to operate, then have your own key to turn it on/off when you need to.

[andyprius]

With regard to penetrating oil, is there no concern of contaminating the water?

A picture of the valve is above in post #3. I assumed that I need to move it in a CW direction to line up the two holes. Is that a false assumption?

Thanks,

Jerry
On alignment of holes,I can't say, I have never seen a valve like that. The penetrating oil stays on the exterior portions of the piping and valve. There is no way the oil can reach the inner portion where the water is. The main thing is to leave it for awhile after the oil (overnight) and some good tapping, but not excessive.

[andyprius]

There won't be any oil reach the water, and even if it did, the relatively small amount wouldn't be so diluted it wouldn't be noticable. I wouldn't suggest you use it as a condiment, but it's not deadly poison. All of that aside, since there is concern about this valve being frozen, I would join others and suggest you have the city come and turn this off. If they break it, it's there problem to fix it. If you break it, you very possibly would be held responsible not just for the valve, but for the labor. Once the valve is known to operate, then have your own key to turn it on/off when you need to.
I agree with Gary absolutely call the City, then you are not liable and they will show you, (or your wife).

[jk60]

Seems like the overwhelming consensus is for me to first call the water department and see if I can get them involved. This is what I am going to do. Thank you everybody for your very helpful replies!!!

Jerry

[jk60]

I decided to give this a minimal effort myself before calling the city. I started out by following the recommendations in this thread. Cleaned the valve, tapped it lightly with a hammer, and over a period of two days I've squirted some penetrating oil on the valve. Then to finalize this effort I built my own curb key (below) using some remnants of 3/4" pipe and a couple of tees that I had in the house. Cut a slot in the bottom tee to fit over the valve, and there you have the final product. Worked like a charm. The valve opens and closes without any problems.

Thank you everybody again for your help with this problem!!!

Jerry

[Gary Swart]

Very clever! You may want to have a couple of spot welds on the tees so they won't unscrew, but other than that, it looks great. :)

[jk60]

Thank you Garry. I don't have a welder, but what I did is use Loctite high strength thread locker (red) on the threads. That hopefully will keep it from unscrewing. The other option would be just to put a 1/4-20 bolt through the tee and pipe thread. So far however it works without any problems.

[SteveW]

Looks great -- thanks for sharing!

How did you cut the slot? A series of holes drilled with a drill press?

Steve

[jk60]

Steve - Exactly as you said, a series of holes drilled on the drill press and then a little work with a file.

Jerry