View Full Version : Toto Ultramax product review, comments & pictures

Reader Review
02-07-2006, 02:31 PM
Toto Ultramax, Made in USA

Just a short followup to my April 2005 review. I’ve had the Toto Ultramax a year now. I have no regrets that I selected this toilet over others. It gets the job done on the first flush and has never clogged. I’m always amazed how little water it uses. In addition, it’s a beautiful addition to the bathroom. I can honestly say it was worth the extra money to move up to a TOTO!


How a Toto toilet flushes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OWMcFuI1gg)

Reader Review
03-03-2006, 11:41 AM
Terry, Purchased both one month ago and installed at he same time. No sweat for either though the one piece Toto was quicker. After a couple years of plunging some old '93 model Kohler Wellworths something had to be done. Both work very well and we have had not even a suggestion of a plunger need. These toilets are deadly with solid waste, no "victory lap" around the bowl. You simply say "brown buddy you're going down" and that's that. Thanks for the helpful site. JH

Reader Review
03-03-2006, 11:42 AM
I just had a Toto Ultramax round installed last night attar reading all of these reviews and doing research on what made the best sense for me. Thanks for taking all the confusion out of this process. Seems like a great toilet so far!


J Segal

Reader Review
03-03-2006, 11:43 AM
After doing extensive toilet research (by far the best of which is on your web site!), we installed our Toto Ultramax Round toilet yesterday. Wow! What an impressive flush! I also love how quickly the tank refills (doesn't hurt that this changes things from a 3.5 gal to 1.6 gal fill up!). I only wish we had purchased an elongated bowl instead of the round. The soft close seat on the round seems to have a smaller opening that "regular" toilet seats. For our next toilet, I think we'll get the elongated ADA height either Ultramax or Drake. That MAP report really made for interesting reading! Thanks so much for having this informative site and forum! K from Poughkeepsie, NY

Reader Review
03-03-2006, 11:45 AM
I suffered the nightmare of two American Standard low water toilets. They simply didn’t work. Horrible in every way – nightmares. Probably stopped up every 8 uses or so and once clogged, impossible to clear without a plumber’s snake. Three years ago I bought an Ultramax. Not a problem since. Strong flushing action. Good water level. Clean – no odors. No problems and that’s way it’s supposed to be. I will need to replace another toilet soon - in the downstairs half bath. I’ll be buying another Ultramax.
B. Gauthier


Reader Review
03-19-2006, 08:35 AM
Since I've had my Toto Ultramax ADA (model MS854114SL) toilet for about five months now, I think that it is time give back to your very helpful web site and offer my review of this model. You may post this to your web site this if you wish.

Installation was no trouble in my fairly new condo. Since it is a one piece model, there was nothing more to do then remove the (worthless) unnamed model, replace the wax ring, tighten the floor bolts and connect the water supply. Single-handedly carrying it up a flight of stairs was a pretty good workout.

Use has been flawless. No double flushes required. Never a clog.
Stays very clean. I was surprised by the speed and quietness of the flush. Flush, boom and everything is gone. Anyone need my old, now lonely, plunger?

I've received a couple of comments that my toilet looks good. I never had that experience before...

Summary (AKA the bottom line): I consider this one of the best consumer product investments that I ever made. Depending on your favored scale of contentment, I'd rate this Toto a 10, five stars, excellent, thumbs up, etc. It has been a very worthwhile purchase.

Beaverton, OR

Reader Review
04-12-2006, 02:31 PM
Good Morning:

We just got our toilets yesterday, they are great, we do not have to flush three times any more.
Your worker Ben was polite, efficient, pleasant, great attitude plus represents your company well.
Thank you.
K. and M. White

Reader Review
06-01-2006, 05:05 PM

I am a civil engineer (water, sewer, flooding, paving). At my office the landlord recently installed a Toto toilet, and I am effusive about it! I don't know which model it is, but it is amazing, and in inspecting it, I can see it has a double siphon below the bowl. The only thing I can't understand is why there aren't more double siphon toilets around, unless Toto has a patent on the double-siphon concept.

Let me explain briefly why the Toto is so simply amazing. Most toilets have a single siphon below the bowl that gets started when you dump water into the bowl (by flushing it the normal way or with a bucket) and then stops when the siphon gets broken either 1) by running out of water in the bowl and letting some air in the top (making that end-of-flush gurgle) or (and this is the catch) 2) by slowing down to the point that water dribbles away and lets air enter from the sewer and break the siphon. But Toto toilets have a second siphon near the floor that doesn't let the first siphon break until the flush is done and water runs out in the bowl. This forms what Toto calls a Power Gravity Flush. You get the vacuum effect of the entire height from the bowl down to the floor pulling the water and solids out of the bowl. Very ingenious. I've sketched it below.

Tom Haws, P.E.
Civil Engineers and Land Surveyors

06-02-2006, 06:25 PM
Thanks for that post, Mr. Haws. You have just enabled me to comprehend something about toilet technology that I have been pondering. Without quite understanding what I was talking about, I commented on the efficiency of different trapway designs not too long ago.

For most of my life, I never had any interest in the fine points of toilet design, but after a little research and working with them while remodeling a couple of bathrooms, I realized how interesting their engineering is, especially in those that most fully utilize the potential of fluid dynamics.

Thanks again for your diagram and explanation on the efficiency of the Toto trapway.

Reader Review
11-14-2006, 09:10 AM
My house was built in 1978 as an energy efficient model and the main
bathroom had a French made low-volume toilet. (It used more water than the
Toto, but was low volume in the 70's.) My 1/2 bath had a full volume unit
that would plug occasionally... and this got worse when I replaced it with a
medium range American Standard. That unit does have features going for it...
it's comfortable, attractive and can be double flushed... but a double flush
was necessary for solids... which used as much water as the unit it

I began remodeling the 1/2 bath, decided to do some research, and came
across your website. I was doubtful of the claims for the Toto Ultramax. I
bought it because it fit the new decor and moved the AS to the main
bathroom. Was I shocked!

The AS does well in this bath, but the real winner is the Toto in the
problem bathroom! When my dogs spill water, I'll walk to the back of the
house and use the new toilet... because it can handle 6 paper towels in a
single flush, as if it were nothing!

I was originally concerned because the tank on the Ultramax is so tiny. What
was not mentioned is how fast this unit flushes and fills. Previously I had
the water valve partially closed due to the noise of the previous toilets
when filling. I replaced the faucet valve with a lever type. It's quiet
enough that the valve can be wide open and the unit cycles (flush to full)
in a mere 15-16 seconds! So, even if a double flush were needed, it's faster
than the average toilet.

BTW, this has also made a difference in removing clutter in my bathrooms.
With the new arrangements, the plunger has been relegated to the garage,
where it belongs, instead of being a necessary accessory.

Thank you so much for posting this information. Not only did I find the
perfect toilet, but your low prices saved me $223 over the cost of the same
toilet purchased locally.

02-06-2007, 03:13 PM
After reading Terry's review and other customer comments and talking to my plumber friend about the Ultramax, I decided to purchase and install one a couple of weeks ago. Like the Toto Drake model, but much more stylish, the Ultramax works great. I did not get the Sani-gloss option with it, but I think that it would be worth considering.

02-10-2007, 10:51 AM
I bought a new house and the generic toilets they installed were terrible (you kept a plunger on call). After several months, I'd had enough and did some online research. I ended up buying 2 non-ADA, elongated, Sanagloss Ultramax toilets (MS854114SG) last summer based on the glowing reviews here (and after a local plumber's suggestion). My thoughts:

Pros: 1) They flush like champs! Between both toilets, I've had two clogs total, one of which was on the day I installed it, pushing the limits of what it could flush with some crazy food/beans/TP tests. (It does have a limit, and when it finally clogs the bowl fills in a HURRY, so watch out... :)). Based on this point alone, these were a good buy. 2) Low water usage. It doesn't appear to use much water. 3) Fairly quiet flush and quick tank fill. From pushing the lever to the tank shutting off it is about 20-25 seconds (we have average water pressure here). Note on flushing noise levels: I have found that the drain in your floor makes a difference on how loud (and well) the toilet flushes, so saying this toilet will flush really quietly everywhere isn't 100% true to say. One toilet flushes really quietly (and notably has never clogged) while the other one flushes more like an average toilet (somewhat louder - clogged once). 4) Mostly easy to clean (see below for cleaning flaw under the lid base). 5) The install was fast and easy. It was a little heavy, but it's no heavier than a whole, regular toilet (the combined bowl and tank). It's nothing an average guy can't handle. (Note to all ceramic tile installers - be really careful how level your tile is where your toilet will be installed. If you don't, you may have to use door frame shims to level your toilet properly.) 6) Looks nice - they're sleek. When I opened the box, I thought, "Man - these are small!"

Cons: 1) Very expensive. 2) the tank's lid is smaller and slightly sloped towards the bowl. Don't plan on putting too much on the lid (i.e. magazines, larger toilet paper holders, etc.) - it won't stay on. 3) The bowl wash (especially in the back) is lacking. Residue will collect in the bowl and it will have to be cleaned more periodically than you'd hoped with the Sanagloss surface. In other words, don't buy the Sanagloss thinking you'll never have to clean your toilet again (as my wife had hoped :)). 4) The soft close lid you sit on is a little different in shape. It's not as flat as you might be used to - you feel kind of feel like you need to be a smaller person to fit properly (I'm not huge - 6', 200 lbs). It took a while for me to get used to (admittedly, I don't think about it now). 5) The soft close lid does its job (you can't slam it easily), but it feels a little like cheap plastic. It's hard to quantify, but I guess I expected more. 6) Urine can collect between the soft close lid's and the bowl where the soft lid attaches to the bowl (the base). It is almost impossible to clean out w/o a spray bottle of some kind. A seat that has a gap between the seat base and the bowl would've been a better design for cleaning.

Bottom line: Despite a couple of flaws, the two Ultramaxes work great overall, and I'm glad that I bought them. They out-perform any other base-line toilet I've used, and I don't worry it'll clog when I flush. I'd give them a 8.5 out of 10. Don't let the length of the list of my Cons dissuade you - I'm being really picky in order to answer any questions I might have had when reading reviews. Also, you'll see that 3 of the 6 cons were related to the soft close lid, which was disappointing overall. Yes, it doesn't slam, so it does its job in that respect, but again I just expected something different/better/not-so-plasticky. (I can't speak for the Ultramax's "regular lid" for quality comparison).

If you put a better lid/seat combo on it and put a little more bowl wash in there and you'd just about have perfection.

Would I buy the Sanagloss coating next time? I'm not sure. With the so-so bowl flush the residue issue could be worse without the Sanagloss, but I don't think it was worth it because I see only a little difference between these Ultramaxes and my old toilets.

Reader Review
07-04-2007, 10:51 AM
A "heads-up" for potential UltraMax buyers...
Toto offers another model called the Ultimate with identical appearance and nearly identical model number as the UltraMax. It's MaP rating is less than half of the UltraMax MaP number.
The Toto model numbers might easily be confused:
MS854114S UltraMax elongated bowl
MS854114 Ultimate elongated bowl
If not buying from Terry, be careful. A less experienced salesperson might accidentally order (or substitute) the wrong model. It almost happened to me.
The two specification sheets from totousa.com have identical photos, drawings, dimensions and specs. Both models apparently use the same porcelain. The only apparent difference between the 2 specification sheets is the flush controller. The UltraMax sheet uses the "G-Max System" for "commercial grade flushing performance". The Ultimate has "Power-Gravity", apparently targeted for less demanding, residential use.
I looked up MaP (maximum performance) from the latest edition of the toilet fixture tests and found these comparative MaP ratings...
MS854114S UltraMax ("G-Max System" ) has MaP rating = 700 g
MS854114 Ultimate ("Power-Gravity") has MaP rating = 325 g
Less than 250 g doesn't meet plumbing codes or minimum standards.
The top performance bracket is "500 g and more".
Within the 250-475 g "acceptable" MaP category, the Ultimate doesn't even hit mid-range!
Make sure your supplier provides the UltraMax, not the Ultimate. The UltraMax has slightly higher price, but not by much.

I don't know why the Ultimate was only rated at 325 Before they rated it, it was their top seller.
I had one in my home for over a year, never plugged it, and we had parties with over 200 people over.
I used some in my church too. No problems.
They were better than the five gallon American Standards we took out.
I've also used MaP rated toilets that were in the 500 to 600 range that were not nearly as good as the 325 Ultimate.
I'm based my report more on actual use, then their lab reporting.
Personal experience by many home owners and church use, is more useful then their one time trial, assuming that they even reported on the right toilet on their spreadsheet.

Inside the tank, you will see
CST854 for the Ultramax, it comes with the Red flapper
CST854 for the Ultimate, it comes with the Blue flapper
Terry Love


Reader Review
07-04-2007, 10:54 AM
I recently visited my parents in Palm Desert California. They needed a new toilet and their plumber recommended the Toto Ultramax, which he installed. It is amazing, flushes like a commercial toilet, really.
I came home and one of the first things I told my husband about was this fabulous new toilet that my parents had. We will be replacing our 2 toilets right away!
If you have ever had a flushing issue, go out right away and by a Toto toilet.

Thank you,
Linda Walker

Reader Review
07-04-2007, 10:55 AM
UPDATE, 5/1/07: After using this toilet for almost two years, I just purchased and installed two more just like it. This is simply a great toilet as far as I'm concerned.

Fred Klintworth

08-06-2007, 12:16 PM
Just throwing in my two cents if it helps. Bought an Ultramax, now I begin house tours by showing guests the toilet. Looks great, works great, installation was a snap.

As a tip for the budget minded, the Toto Drake works equally as well for much less. Its a two piece instead of a one piece but that will onyl add about 10 minutes to the installation. We have two Drakes and an Ultramax.

08-06-2007, 03:49 PM
Well, I bought my elongated ADA Ultramax last Friday. I havn't installed it yet, still remodeling. Tile guy coming Aug.21, so shortly after that I'll see what all the fuss is about.

I did unbox it and install the seat/lid (softclose). I have my reservations about the seat, but will wait until after install for final judgement.

This toilet is very cool looking, I must say. But it sure looks small compared to the 5 gal model it's replacing.

08-06-2007, 07:14 PM
The tank size is smaller...the seat will fit many toilets, and that's the important part!

10-29-2007, 10:20 AM
Thanks, Terry, you were right again! I just had two Toto Ultramax's installed on Sat and they work much better than the Mansfield Altos they replaced. The Altos required plunging every few weeks and were the worst. They also had a poorly glazed trap that required a closet auger as a plunger would not unplug them. Thanks again for this website and your data on the Totos!

11-03-2007, 06:57 AM

Just remodelled my downstairs and put in an Ultramax. Works like a champ.

Upstairs has a Kohler one-piece. San Rameo, Rialto or something like that. This one constantly clogs. Can not explain why.

12-09-2007, 03:13 PM
Terry: As an out-of-towner, I just wanted to log in and express my thanks for the detailed information which you provide on this web site. I purchased a TOTO elongated ADA Ultramax and I am very pleased. I, too, am astonished at how efficiently and powerfully the double trap G-Max flush works. As wheelchair user, I wanted a unit that could withstand the rigors of physical transfers, and the one-piece Ultramax is solid. I have some issues with the contours of the seat when it comes to "taking care of business:o," but the slightly broader seat base on the Ultramax should accommodate the TOTO bidet seat nicely, should I decide to replace the stock seat one day. All in all, it's thumbs up -- thanks! __Dave

12-15-2007, 01:42 AM
I left a review of the Toto Ultramax 1-piece toilet that I had installed in my condo in the spring of 2005. It will soon be three years and I'm still extremely happy with my Toto Ultramax and wouldn't even consider any other brand or model if I were in the market again. My condo was damaged last year by a fire in a neighboring unit and went through major remodeling. My bath was completely gutted and remodeled...the only thing I retained from the old bathroom was my Toto Ultramax! It was a beauty before (yes, toilets can be beautiful!) but really shines in its new surroundings!

Regarding my experience with this model, I guess you can tell that I love it. I've had one experience where it blocked and that was entirely my fault for putting in too much paper without flushing (I'd cleaned up a spill from something with toilet tissue). Normal use, there's been no problems at all. Rarely does the bowl require a second flush for proper cleaning. The GMax system works just like Terry has said and was worth the few extra dollars. I still highly recommend the Toto Ultramax for anyone that wants a beautiful, highly efficient low-flush toilet! :D

12-22-2007, 07:42 AM
My 10 year old son has the ability to produce pop can size movements
which daily caused me to run for my life with a plunger in hand before it overflowed.

After reading all about the Ultra max it sounded like an answer to a prayor.

We purchaced our first one this spring and it was a family event with high fives. I never thought I would be so excited about watching a toilet flush.
It gobbles up everything in a split second! Its is so comfortable to sit on
and we love the soft close lid.

We quickly purchaced a second for another bathroom.

My son has only caused one clog in five months but that plunged out easily.

My only major complaint is with the first Ultramax, apparently the Porcelain in the bottom of the bowel was not done completly at the factory.
It gets stained way down in there and looks like a nasty toilet you find in a gas station. My wife hates this and says she has tried everything to get it clean. It is embarassing as this toilet in in our hall bath which all our guests use.

The second Ultra Max does not have this problem and always looks sparkly
clean and shiney.

ron in sc
01-24-2008, 02:45 PM
I did just buy and install an ADA compliant Toto Ultramax in the toliet room in our new master bedroom suite.

02-25-2008, 10:26 AM
I had two of these highly-regarded toilets installed about 6 weeks ago and have managed to stop them up -- with nothing more than human feces and toilet paper -- three times. This last time, even my trusty bellows-type plunger could not blast through the clog. Nor did the dishwashing liquid trick work. It took a closet auger to get the flow back.

I am very sorry to have spent $500 ea (including shipping) for these.

Reader Review
02-29-2008, 09:47 AM
The toilet has performed FLAWLESSLY so far and we're really happy with it. Once we pay some other bills, we'll no doubt be upgrading others in the house.



03-30-2008, 05:22 PM
Installed the Drake first a couple of weeks ago to see how it would "perform". Passed everything my family could put in it. With that, I went with the Ultramax for our main bathroom.

What a fine toilet, never thought a toilet would give such satisfaction (when not using it).
Toto has this toilet thing down to a science, I would never consider going with another brand.
Seriously, if anyone can clog one of this toilets, they should see a doctor, its not the toilets fault!

I will always recommend Toto and this site.
Thank you Terry!

Reader Review
03-31-2008, 08:41 AM
Thanks for your great and informative website--we too, have installed the Toto Ultramax ADA height toilets, and they are amazing. After years of a constantly clogging American Standard, the Ultramax is a welcome change of pace. Never clogs, low water consumption, all at a decent price
S. Brown

Reader Review
05-29-2008, 12:47 PM
Let me say that the two Toto toilets that you put in for us are fantastic! We couldn't be more pleased with them.
John H

Reader Review
05-29-2008, 12:48 PM
Bought a Toto UltraMax (I think that's what it was called) toilet from you last year and love it -- although my 6-year-old son has been able to clog it on occasion. :-) David Z

Reader Review
06-19-2008, 09:07 AM
By the way, I LOVE IT! Press that lever and WOOSH it is GONE!

This toilet lived up to everything you said on your website and every good comment people said. I thought I was getting the round version but the elongated version came and I am very thankful.
Linda B
Mount Vernon WA

08-04-2008, 08:43 AM
Ah, thank heaven for the internet; it saved us from buying a poor-performing toilet! All the reviews on this site and others convinced us to find and purchase the Toto Ultramax (we had been looking at the Kohler Santa Rosa (http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28056)at our local home depot). Boy, are we glad we did! We have very low water pressure, and plunging used to be routine for us, but the Ultramax seems to be uncloggable! We will definitely be replacing the other toilets in the house. Our only complaint is we don't find the curved seat to be very comfortable, though maybe it just takes getting used to. Also I notice that inside the ring there is an edge which I find to be somewhat uncomfortable. I do love the soft-close feature, though. I notice no one else on this site seems to mind the seat so maybe it's just us. At any rate, the seat does not dissuade us at all from replacing the other toilets, because the seat is easily and inexpensively replaceable. The unbelievably fast, powerful flushing far outweighs any concern over the seat. We bought the elongated, and we think we may try the round in another bathroom.

In short, LOVE this toilet!

08-21-2008, 07:00 AM
The Toto one piece toilets come complete with soft close seats the two piece toilets do not come with seat.

MS854114S-01 Ultramax 1pc toilet
MS=1pc toilet & soft close seat combo
854= toilet number
114= seat number
S= G-max Flush
01= Cotton White

CST= Bowl & Tank
416= Toilet number
M=Dual Flush
01= Cotton White

08-21-2008, 01:45 PM
Thank you Peanut, and I apologize--I noticed that fact after I'd posted. I will check out the seat at a showroom; I hope I like it b/c I like the slow drop-down feature. Have not ordered anything yet but am leaning toward the Aquia after reading the reviews here. Thanks again!

Reader Review
11-10-2008, 05:43 PM
Thanks, Terry.

The install went smoothly and this thing flushes like a champ.



Reader Review
11-26-2008, 05:52 PM
I really liked my Toto Drake toilet installed last year.
This year I'm installing the Toto Ultramax one-piece toilet in the main bathroom.

What I'm replacing is a Gerber Ultraflush (http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28088)that a plumbing contractor sold me. The grandkids didn't like the Gerber, they will be happy I have another Toto.

Old toilet to be removed
Send this Gerber Ultraflush to the dump please.
The TOTO box makes a nice container to haul the old toilet away,

A new Toto Ultramax with Sanagloss

Reader Review
12-26-2008, 11:56 AM
Hi there,
Here's my 2 cents on Toto's.

I've been stationed in Japan for 17 years of my Navy life and well accustomed to Toto products. Needless to say I was disgusted the first time I used a non Toto toilet when I came back here in the U.S. Those 3-4 seconds of swirling action just annoys me and sometimes I have to flush twice. You guessed it, I went hunting for Toto the second day to replace my toilets. No more long SWIIIIIIIIISH … Just a short "Chu-chug".

Northern California

busymom in California
01-05-2009, 01:22 PM
Was wondering if anyone has had experience with the new Eco Ultramax toilet? We are remodeling a guest bath and living in So. California where the water prices are going through the roof we are looking to conserve water and money. Any information at all would sure be appreciated. Thank you.

The Eco will work very much like the G-Max. I've been using an Eco Drake for some time now, works fine, Terry

01-05-2009, 07:21 PM
I recently replaced 3 old toilets w/ EcoUltramax's and have been very happy w/ them.


01-07-2009, 05:08 PM
We decided against a Kohler after reading how hard it is to get replacement parts and how expensive they were. Before investing in the Ultramax we are curious if anyone knows what parts tend to go first, how difficult they are to get and how expensive they are to replace.


01-07-2009, 07:55 PM
There are two things in a typical toilet that wear out: the rubber flapper (around $10 if I remember - depending on your water and how much clorine there is anywhere from a few years to many), and, on the Toto's that use the Korky valve, a rubber seal (about $2.50 - could last many years; maybe less if you have a well and get grit in your water). Both are readily available at Lowes and most any plumbing supply house, or on-line.

01-08-2009, 09:29 PM
Thanks! I'm not sure if the Ultramax uses a "Korky" but I'm hoping this means no major issues getting one if I need it!

One more - do you know if I can replace the chrome trip lever handle with one I pick up to match my Kohler faucets? Or is there something proprietary about it? Thanks again! This is the last piece I need before my bathroom remodel cna get started and I'm getting jazzed!

01-09-2009, 09:19 AM
Many trip levers will work on the Ultramax.
From Toto, you can order Brushed Nickel, White, Sedonia Beige (Biscut), Bone (Almond) Chrome, Polished Brass.

And any Generic handle that works on the side of the tank too.

Lowes carries fill valves and flappers that work for the Toto.

01-09-2009, 02:30 PM
Thank you again!

01-16-2009, 02:54 AM
Well, my Ultramax is about 6-7 years old.

I just had to replace the red flapper, that was about $9 at Lowes.

Then I found out the Korky fill valve they used to use in the Ultramax was leaking, and I ended up having to replace the fill valve, the $2.50 cap didn't work to fix the fill valve.

The Korky style fill valve was $16.09 + Shipping. Can be as much as $30 in some places.

Having just been through it, the only things that went in 6-7 years was the flapper and the fill valve. I recommend checking your tank periodically to make sure the valve is shutting off below the overflow tube. I didn't hear the fill valve leaking, and a lot of people have said the same thing.

Korky says to clean the fill valve every so often, maybe once a year? I'd be curious what others think about that. From what I've seen, it might be better not to disturb the plastic and rubber parts unless you are having a problem. It took a long time for me to have a problem...


02-11-2009, 10:26 AM
how does the eco version compare and is there any that really work. thanks in advance

02-11-2009, 01:17 PM
The Eco Ultramax uses the same porcelain.
They add a weight to the flapper to make it close quicker.

If you need more water, a person can always hold the handle down just a bit longer.

I've been using the Eco Gwyneth and the Eco Drake, they seem to work fine.

02-11-2009, 04:43 PM
so you would recommend the Eco Gwyneth and the Eco Drake over the Eco Ultramax

02-11-2009, 04:59 PM
so you would recommend the Eco Gwyneth and the Eco Drake over the Eco Ultramax

I didn't know I was being asked that.
All of the Toto toilets are pretty similar.

I prefer one-piece toilets.
I try different toilets so I can answer questions from customers.
The next one I'm putting in is the Toto Soiree.
I've installed quite a few for others, and they like them so much, I want one too.

By all means, get the Ultramax. I have one of those downstairs at the moment. I got mine with the Sanagloss.

02-11-2009, 09:36 PM
First of all - thanks for such a great forum. I had no idea how little I knew until I started reading your site.

I need to buy 2 toilets and am completely torn between the Aquia II (CST416M) and the ecoUltramax (MS854114E). All of the reviews of the standard Ultramax make it seem like the best option overall......but I have not heard much about the ecoUltramax in comparison....and the few responses you gave to other questions about the ecoUltramax seemed to pale in comparison to your raves of the normal Ultramax.

Leaving cost out of the equation, if you were to select one for your home, would you pick the Aquia II or the ecoUltramax? And for what reasons?

Some of my concerns are:
Which is easier to install? (sounds like the ultramax due to the unifit adapter of the Aquia which seems to make it a bit more tricky)
Which has the better flushing capacity?
Which has a better flushing mechanism (dual max vs emax)?
Is the eMax flushing system about as good as the gmax system (as i assume the gmax is their top end system)

Also, I have seen MAP ratings on this site for the Aquia II of 800 grams (I'm assuming tied to the 1.6gpf button), but nothing for the ecoUltramax. Do you know what the MAP rating is for the ecoUltramax?

And does the 3" flush valve of the ecoUltramax make a big difference over the flush valve of the Aquia II?

I may be renting my house out too, so want something that is rock solid and reliable since tenants aren't typically very careful about these things.

Ok, I have already written far more than I should have.....but any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

02-12-2009, 05:09 AM
Also, I have seen MAP ratings on this site for the Aquia II of 800 grams (I'm assuming tied to the 1.6gpf button), but nothing for the ecoUltramax. Do you know what the MAP rating is for the ecoUltramax?
Actually the CST416M has a Map test of 500 the old CST414 has a Map test of 800.

I would put in the Ultramax over the Aquia.
I like a One piece toilet over a two piece for cleaning purposes, plus One piece just seems more upscale compared to a two piece.
Some people have proplems with the water surface of the Aquia.
Aquia can be harder to install especially if you have tile floors and you have to drill and anchor the mounting blocks.
The Aquia flush valve assembly is more complicated than the regular flush valve.

The Ultramax (G-Max) has a Map test of 800 and the Eco-Ultramax (E-max) has a Map test of 500.

There is no difference in price so unless your are concerned about the 1.6 compared to the 1.28 water use, i would put in the Ultramax.

02-12-2009, 10:14 PM
Thanks so much for the feedback and advice. I really liked the comment about the eMax flushing system being less complicated than the dual flush.....I had not thought about that and seems like a really good point. As much as I admire the look of the Aquia (love the skirted and contemporary look) there seem to be several concessions to go that route (unconventional install, unconvential flush mechanism, etc). But they both seem great in their own ways.

Thanks again everyone. I'll be sure to post some pics once I pull the trigger and get them installed!

02-13-2009, 02:03 AM
my toilet drain is 12" centre to the wall. so the ultrax should just set in where the old one was?

02-13-2009, 04:49 AM
If you have 12" then yes it will fit no problem.
That is a standard toilet rough-in.


02-14-2009, 07:46 PM
I installed it a week ago and so far we are loving it. The installation was very easy. The one piece comes fully assembled so all you do is put it on the wax seal, tighten down the nuts on the closet bolts, connect the water supply, then put on the supplied seat and it is ready for action. The biggest challenge was the ca. 1948 closet drain, not the toilet itself. The 1-piece Ultramax looks great in our Eichler (modern style).

So far the toilet has performed flawlessly. The flush is quiet by our standards. We have not had any issues with flushing...haven't needed a second one yet. I am happy with the water spot (which is why I steered away from the Aquia) and the Sanagloss has kept things clean. The only thing I am not 100% satisfied with is the comfort of the seat. Other than that it has been a great buy.

Lastly, I want to thank everyone for all the posts as this site was instrumental in the background research I did which led to the selection. Keep up the good work!

03-21-2009, 06:09 PM
I am from Canada and I am interested in the non eco ultramax or drake models. The website that lists the Map ratings only covers the eco models from what I can tell.
Here is the website.

03-21-2009, 06:16 PM
The MaP for the 1.6 Drake is 900 grams and the Ultramax being 700 grams.
I used the 325 gram rated Ultimate for two years and it worked very well.
In the same bathroom, I tried the Kohler Cimarron, and it plugged constantly.

The guy that wrote the MaP testing finally bought himself a low flow toilet, the Carama with the 550 gram rating.
I was never a fan of the Caroma and I told him so. He had to find out the hard way, that the Caroma bowls don't stay clean.
Video here of the splashy Caroma
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-1855798188535347905 (http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-1855798188535347905)

Reader Review
03-26-2009, 10:15 AM
We love our TOTO and recommend you to everyone. Excellent customer service.

Carol G
Arlington WA

Purchased in 2003
A few years ago we bought a MS854114S G-Max Toto toilet from you.

Reader Review
03-26-2009, 10:16 AM
I would like to buy another Toto Ultramax, elongated, in cotton,

Bart V
Wenatchee WA

Cotton White

Reader Review
03-26-2009, 10:20 AM
Hi Terry,
This is a follow-up to our phone discussion at noon today. I am interested in purchasing another Toto Ultramax, elongated, cotton/white. I'll pick it up either this Thursday or Friday, and will call you first. Thanks.
Gil H
Bothell WA

Reader Review
03-29-2009, 10:56 AM
Hi Terry,
Thanks for taking the time to create such an informative web site.

We are working on a home addition which when complete will replace our 1949 bathroom with 2 bathrooms. We had already decided we wanted an ADA toilet in the master bath. When my toilet with the tank bolted on the wall continued leaking (into bowl recently even after replacement of the ball, I decide to go ahead & purchase one of the new toilets for the addition & get it installed in the old bath & then just move it into addition later. After research including your site & the MAP tests, I narrowed my choices down to Drake (http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5241) or Ultra-Max. My wife wanted the one piece UM instead of the 2 piece Drake so I shelled out the extra $ for it. When I went to order from the wholesaler, they informed me that Toto was in the midst of switching from 1.6 to 1.28 gal flush models so I decided to go ahead & purchase both toilets while I could still get the 1.6g model. The old cast iron toilet flange is well over ” above the floor, not allowing the toilet to sit on the floor when on the flange so I had a friend who makes Corion countertops cut out a piece of ” Corion from a template for the toilet to sit on. Got the ADA model on & all hooked up. Works great. Now I just have to fix up the wall where the tank was bolted & get the addition finished. This thing flushes really fast & is a little noisy at the end of the flush (when it sucks the air down) for middle of the night flushes, but we have yet to have to flush twice. My wife is VERY happy, & the water bill should be back down next month as a result of the replacement.

I was also wondering if you have any idea on any uses for the antique that I removed or who may want it? Round bowl with a huge wall mounted tank & chrome pipe in between. Flush valve needs replacing but I knew I couldn’t use one of the plastic ones since the threads don’t go to the end of the flush valve on those to be able to affix the nut to hold the chrome pipe.

Anyways, I just wanted to drop you a line to say thank you for the advice & the web site.

Best wishes,
E Hobbs,
Corapeake, NC

04-12-2009, 10:52 AM
A cutaway of the Toto Ultramax showing the sweeping trapway,
and how it points the waste down the drain.
That little dip will hold water between flushes too.
It helps to fool it into thinking the trapway is smaller, which creates more suction.
When the solids are sucked though, it finds a round 2-1/8" trapway.

How a Toto toilet flushes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OWMcFuI1gg)

Jetta Whirlpool Baths
04-22-2009, 04:31 PM
I believe this is the thread for this, but if not someone can create a new thread with this info. Now with that being said....

Now introducing the Ultramax II: (http://www.totousa.com/ProductDetail.aspx?productid=393)

AKA the one piece Eco-Gwyneth. I dont understand why Toto is renaming it, but still a great value.

Not to be confused with the Eco-Ultramax 1.28 flush ADA Sanagloss toilet. No Cyclone flush, only available in white and $135 MORE!

Or the Eco Ultramax 1.28 flush ADA toilet. No Sanagloss or Cyclone, also only available in White and $66 MORE!

I am all for Toto giving such a great deal on the Gwyneths but at the same time they seem to be pricing other models out like the Drake and the Ultramax. Any one know if anything else changes with the MS604 other than the name?

05-22-2009, 11:47 AM
Terry, you say on your site that the Ultramax is your first choice - but the Drake and the Gwyneth are both cheaper, with higher map scores than the Ultramax. What is it about the Ultramax that makes it your first choice?


05-22-2009, 12:03 PM
Any MaP score "over" 500 grams is overkill.

I have a 305 V-8 engine in a rear wheel drive Chevy Nova with drum brakes and an AM radio.
Goes fast, doesn't stop worth a darn. Crummy bench seat in front, no leg room in back.

Which is better, that or a Toyota Highlander with ABS four wheel disc brakes, four wheel drive, overhead cam engine with electronic fuel injection and satelite radio.

I drive the Highlander. Much better for skiing.

I like one-piece toilets.
For looks and cleaning.
And they come with the softclose seat.

And My next one will be the Toto Soiree.
Love the skirted base, sanagloss and the style.

If I were buying the Drake, I would get that in Sanagloss too.


05-22-2009, 12:09 PM
Terry, you say on your site that the Ultramax is your first choice - but the Drake and the Gwyneth are both cheaper, with higher map scores than the Ultramax. What is it about the Ultramax that makes it your first choice?


The Drake is a 2pc toilet and the Ultramax is a 1pc toilet.
Ultramax has a Map test of 700 and the Gwyenth (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn9_zctMge0) is 500.
If your looking at the Eco-Ultramax it is 500.

06-23-2009, 06:35 AM
I just installed the Ultramax model MS854114SL. I seem to have a flushing problem and was hoping that someone in this forum could help me. Here's the situation. When the tank in full, there is 7 inches of water in it. When I flush it, the water quickly drops down to 4 inches. Less than 1/2 the water is flushed. It appears as thought the flapper doesn't stay up long enough to allow more water to come out. The toilet supposed to flush 1.6 gallons per flush. So this is what I did. As I said the tank when full has 7 inches of water in it, so I scooped out enough water to bring it down to 4 inches of water and then measured the amount of water I removed from the tank. That came out to just a little more than a gallon. So I'm clearly thinking something must be wrong. I was hoping someone out there with the same toilet could let me know if their toilet has the same measured drop in water in the tank ( i.e. from 7 inches of water when tank is full to 4 inches of water after the flush )
Is my toilet flawed ?? Help

06-23-2009, 09:28 AM
There is water that drops from the tank,
And there is water that comes from the fill valve tube that refills the bowl.

Add the water in the tank, to the water in the bowl, and then a little more for the overfill.

Most of the old five gallon toilets used a little over 2 gallons on the actual flush, and ran another 2 gallons down the drain while "overfilling" the bowl.

That's one reason the old toilets that used so much water worked as poorly as they did, most of the water would leave the bowl, long after the flush. Sometimes water would run down the drain for two minutes after a flush.

New toilets use their water much more efficiently.

06-23-2009, 11:24 AM
Thanks for the reply about the water amount, but I'M STILL NOT SURE
AND IT'S STILL NOT CLEAR TO ME if having 4 inches remaining in the bowl after the flush would be normal or not. 7inches when filled ...4 inches when flushed??????
Do you have one you could look into and flush and see if the results are the same as mine? I'm not getting a great flush and that's why I think that 4 inches remaining might be not normal. Any chance of checking one you have??
Thanks very much for your time....Simagic

06-23-2009, 12:23 PM
Only some of the water leaves the tank.
That's true for every new toilet since 1992.

The flapper is designed to drop quickly.

How a Toto toilet flushes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OWMcFuI1gg)

06-23-2009, 03:38 PM
They use the height of the tank like a water tower to generate more pressure during the flush. What you have is entirely normal. Coming from an old toilet that took forever (in comparison) to flush, it just doesn't seem like it could work, but at least with Toto designs, it does. After a week or so, you'll wonder when you flush an old toilet what's wrong and think why is it still running!

That water going down the overflow tube will be the 'rest' of the water of a 1.6g flush. It's needed to fill the bowl back up again.

Reader Review
09-01-2009, 07:04 PM
Mr. Love,
I am writing to express my thanks for the great service you did by posting your "Consumer Report on Low-flow Toilets" on your website. In the process of remodeling my two bathrooms, I did a lot of toilet shopping and web searching, which turned out to be very time consuming and quite worthless until I stumbled onto your report. Trips to the big home improvement stores only provide about 1% of the information you need to make an informed purchase, and trips to plumbing supply showrooms and company websites were useless for comparative or real-world performance information. I had never even heard of Toto, but after reading you report I immediately bought a Soiree and an Ultramax, installed them myself, and am totally satisfied with their performance.
Incidentally, I had never remodeled a bathroom or replaced a toilet before, and your website is the best resource I have found for a novice seeking useful information. Now I even plan to replace the other two toilets in my house because the Toto's are so superior.
I used to live in Lake City and have recommended you to all my old Seattle friends. I've also sent your website to more than a dozen folks whenever the subject of bathroom remodeling comes up. Attached are few photos of my bathroom project.
Thanks again, R Ferek
Arlington VA

Reader Review
09-01-2009, 07:06 PM
I am so happy with the Toto UltraMax toilet that I purchased from you that I want to post my experience.
P Chatard
Camano Island WA

09-05-2009, 01:20 PM
The lid for the Ultramax

Looking inside the EcoUltramax tank


09-05-2009, 05:18 PM
We installed six of these bad boys in Redmond yesterday.
They qualify for the $100 rebate in Cascade Water District.


Reader Review
01-23-2010, 09:44 AM
Jamie came out and installed a new toilet at my house several weeks ago. I love it
TOTO Ultramax MS854114S
Eric D
Kirkland WA

Reader Review
01-23-2010, 11:25 AM

I just want thank you for your website. I am in the process of major remodeling of my condo. I did a lot of research on toilets and plumbing and your website with comments on specific products helped me make the right choices. I purchased a Toto Ultramax toilet and installed it in my 1st floor bathroom. This one piece low flow and very quiet toilet is great! The amount of flush power is amazing. It works like a charm. I have yet to do a courtesy flush and doubt that I ever will. I can usually do a half flush by pushing the handle quickly. It only uses half of the water in the tank. It refills in about 7 seconds and is very quiet compared to most toilets. I like it so much that I installed 2 more in the upstairs bathrooms. I intend to build a full bath in my basement and you can guess which toilet I have already decided on. I am even looking at the Toto Bathtub as a possibility for my tub and shower.
Thanks again! Keep up the great work!!!

Daniel S
Columbus, Ohio

Reader Review
01-23-2010, 11:52 AM
P.S. Toilet is installed and working great!

D Miller
Los Angeles, CA

01-29-2010, 08:07 AM
On the basis of the recommendation of this web site I installed an Ultra Max with a T wash seat (http://www.easycarts.net/ecarts/terrylove/Bidet_Seats.html). Without getting too graphic, I will simply say that my very high fiber diet puts great demands on a toilet's flushing ability. While this Toto is a great improvement on the toilet I had before, it is no panacea. It *does* have to be plunged now and then. Moreover, while the expensive T wash seat is certainly better than nothing, it does not begin to equal a directed spray from a shower. "Residue" is still visible on the paper even after a lengthy high pressure wash. The dryer is useless unless you want to sit on a toilet forever. The warmed seat is nice. The anti-odor fan works. It is not necessary to spend for the most expensive model as I did for its fore and aft adjustment of the wash nozzle. One can simply shift one's position a little on the seat.

I'm assuming the post is about bidet seats or washlets (http://www.easycarts.net/ecarts/terrylove/Bidet_Seats.html).
I find that the Toto C110 washlet does a good job rinsing

Headless Gal
02-22-2010, 02:36 PM
Dying to order the Ultramax but have a newbie question..........so please excuse me. My home was built in 1974 and the rough in measurements are approx 13 1/2" instead of the industry standard of 12". Instead of moving the sewer pipe I'm assuming (I know what they say) this just means the toilet would sit 1 1/2" farther out from the wall. Correct???
Since I'm wanting to purchase 2 of these babies and have them shipped to the L.A. area do you foresee any problems?. Guess I should also tell you I'm a woman who thinks she'll be able to do this with just a little help from her friends (for muscle). Go ahead, have a good laugh but I'm addicted to all of those DIY/HGTV shows.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
TIA, Sydney.

02-22-2010, 03:29 PM
I sell tons of the Ultramax toilets in the LA area.
They will set out a bit farther, but then you old toilets were too.

Headless Gal
02-23-2010, 03:17 PM
So does this puppy use a wax ring?

02-23-2010, 05:55 PM
Does it use wax?
It installs like any other toilet.
Depending on your situation, you may wind up using a single or two wax rings.
Or you can also use a Waxless seal.

02-27-2010, 10:04 AM
Picked up my TOTO MS604114CEF Ultramax after reading user reports and reviews on this and other web sites and watching the videos on YOUTUBE. Just in the nick of time as I had already picked up a Koehler Class 5 Cimarron at the Home Depot as the salesman told me it was their "best". Pardon the pun. Crap.

The Ultramax I picked up is called an Ultramax II actually; is ADA height, slow close seat included, SaniGloss, ultra water conservation (I get a whack of money back from the government against my Canadian $575 investment. It will net me about $500 total.) I also forked out for a new wax ring... but not just a regular one. Based on the reviews and suggestions I got one with a "cone" on it to center everything, bought new mounting bolts as well. One piece toilet. 1.28GPF flush but if you hold the handle down a little longer it appears that the water continues to flow for a larger water volume (?).

Brought the beast home. It fit in the back of the Ford Flex with room to spare and was not all that heavy (we took two to carry it to be safe). Up the stairs, out of the box, onto the drain pipe and bolted down in ten minutes. Attach seat, water line, etc. another 10 minutes. No assembly. RED flapper guys.

Now to test it. Hmmmm. Already did MY business this morning and showered... nobody else in the house willing to be the guinea pig so I figured Kleenex would be sufficient for an initial test. Bad idea. I get carried away. I tossed a 1/4 box of Kleenex tissue into the toilet and flipped the lever. Gonzo! Wow! This would never happen with my old American Standard! So I tossed the entire rest of the LARGE box of Kleenex in and pulled the handle. Gonzo! But wait. Doesn't look quite right.... the water level is not going right down and out. IT IS PLUGGED. IT IS PLUGGED. (No overflow though). Out comes the plunger and with the instructions received on this website on its proper use I gave it one shove. Nothing. Two shoves. All gone and we are back in business. I have been trying all sorts of other stuff including one of the family's "dump of the century" and it all goes down and leaves a clean as a whistle bowl.

I am sorely disappointed by the Kleenex failure but not really surprised... after all, it was 3/4 of a LARGE box and it was not pulled apart... just plopped into the bowl like it sits in the box. All things being considered I cannot believe that there is a better toilet out there excepting perhaps the American Standard Champion 4 according to the videos on YOUTUBE. But they apparently have problems galore with 'run-on' and leakage (have lots of spare parts on hand I think is what the review said).

We have two bathrooms to go and I am going to install TOTO and only TOTO from now on. Might give the Drake a try as it is actually rated as flushing a greater volume of poop than the Ultramax II.

Anyone know the difference between the Ultramax and Ultramax II? We love it so far. The guy at the plumbing supply said to remove the weight from the flapper but we could not find a weight so I guess we are good to go (no pun intended).

02-27-2010, 10:17 AM
I've had the same experience with the Ultramax II. It can really handle a lot of waste without any fuss. Like any toilet, though, it can clog under extreme conditions (like trying to flush 3/4 box of Kleenex).

RE: the wax seal you used - the pros on this site are not too fond of the type you used, with the plastic "funnel" or horn - it sometimes will get caught on the flange during installation and end up occluding part of the hole and cause clogs later on. Better to use plain wax rings, or as Terry mentioned, a waxless seal like Fernco or Fluidmaster.

02-27-2010, 01:22 PM
I've had the same experience with the Ultramax II. It can really handle a lot of waste without any fuss. Like any toilet, though, it can clog under extreme conditions (like trying to flush 3/4 box of Kleenex)..

Agreed.... but I just had to know before testing it with the REAL McCoy. I consider its performance under the circumstances a pass and we are renting a boat to head out into Lake Ontario later this afternoon to look for that wad of Kleenex hoping it made it downtown.

RE: the wax seal you used - the pros on this site are not too fond of the type you used, with the plastic "funnel" or horn - it sometimes will get caught on the flange during installation and end up occluding part of the hole and cause clogs later on. Better to use plain wax rings, or as Terry mentioned, a waxless seal like Fernco or Fluidmaster.

Should have looked up the Fluidmaster part and description/installation information before heading off. Asked for the Fluidmaster and got the wax ring with the plastic 'funnel' ... funny thing is that the Koehler had the same thing inside the box and the kit that we purchased at another supplier also had the same thing. I thought it was the latest thing in wax seals to keep them from expanding under pressure and occluding part of the drain pipe and to ensure a solidly lined up poop hole (not being a commode techie). Seems to have done its job but now that we know how the whole thing works and how easy it is, should we have any future issues we will not hesitate to lift the toilet and investigate.

The Kleenex test was, as I said to my wife, the 'acid test' for me to ensure that (a) this commode is going to take a load of paper clumped up and keep on working; and (b) that this commode is not going to overflow should it get sorta plugged. Like I said to the better half I would rather be mopping up water and Kleenex than anything else, right?

And our bottom line?
(a) The Ultramax II, ADA height, elongated seat, SaniGlaze (?), slow close lid, ECO friendly, is awesome. As one fellow said, 'no more watching the victory laps around the bowl and praying that it completes successfully.' Flush. Gone. Wow.
(b) TOTO deserves the reputation based on what I have seen personally and what I have been reading and we will be putting TOTO's in our other two washrooms and in the basement when we get around to finishing it.

Thanks for a great website and much assistance. Now we are off to tackle the sinks; all American Standard with those stinking rivets running down from the overflow where the ceramic pops off looking like something has been dropped on the sink. Defective design - wonder if they will replace them based on grossly negligent design flaw. Might be interesting to subpoena some AS execs into the courtroom to find out if there was any knowledge of the flaw while it was happening and the sinks were being sold. In Kanada, we have Small Claims Court and for very few dollars one can file a claim for up to $10K per occurance; and for around $50 more per person have them served with subpoenas to come and bring all their pertinent records.

Or.. in the alternative for $60 a shot I can just replace the sinks with properly built ones. Wonder if TOTO makes sinks?

02-27-2010, 01:51 PM
Or.. in the alternative for $60 a shot I can just replace the sinks with properly built ones. Wonder if TOTO makes sinks?

Yes, I have several in my home...with Sanagloss, too.

03-04-2010, 07:29 PM
Have had our TOTO Ultramax installed for a week now and I am impressed to say the least. It has taken our best and sent it to places unknown without so much as a victory lap. Flush. Gone. My early impression is that I would not purchase anything else but a TOTO product henceforth. Period. I gave American Standard some careful consideration, especially their Champion 4 line, but then noticed that our sinks in all the washrooms are American Standard and the porcelain is popping off where they have rivetted them. I have sent a request to AS for them to replace the sinks, although they may be out of 'written warranty' under common law which suggests that a product purchased shall be fit for its intended use. Not only were these products grossly defective, the fellow in the plumbing supply tells me that American Standard knew of the fault while they were being sold! Comments? Pix attached.

03-04-2010, 08:56 PM
The lav must be over thirty years old.
In fact, that faucet looks closer to 40 years old.
Just pop in some new replacement porcelain lavs.

All brands of metal lavs rust like that after twenty years.
It's called, Wear and Tear.

Reader Review
03-07-2010, 10:21 AM
Terry, I bought the Ultramax and it is working out fine.

S. Charnoviz

03-07-2010, 06:33 PM
The lav must be over thirty years old.
In fact, that faucet looks closer to 40 years old.
Just pop in some new replacement porcelain lavs.

All brands of metal lavs rust like that after twenty years.
It's called, Wear and Tear.

Hi Terry:
Yes, agreed. The new pots are about $60 each; no biggie. However, as a matter of principle, anyone remember the Firenza automobile that used to burst into flames? In law, there is something called manufacturer warranty, there may be pertinent statutarory warranty and in common law at least there is something called 'implied warranty' which means that a product is fit for duty, regardless of time, for the purpose for which it was intended and purchased. THAT is the warranty that applies here. The product was not only defective at the time of manufacture due to the spot welding of the underlying metal, but American Standard may have knowingly been selling the product with the full understanding and knowledge that it was defective when it went out the door or at least while it was sitting on dealer shelves. So, I thought I would bring that to their attention and run it up the pole, as it were.

Needless to say, their customer service folks did not see it that way nor did their "Office of the President" who I am sure undertook legal counsel before speaking to me.

The long and short of it is that I have a choice at this point. Either just drop in some new lavs, as you suggest (and a very good suggestion at that) or give them a possible rap across the knuckles to not do this again to unsuspecting consumers.

I was advised by two seperate plumbing supply shops that this was a common problem with circa 1990's American Standard sinks and a known problem at that but everyone kept quiet. Fact is that the ceramic started coming off years ago (the sinks are 20 years old) and in some cases came off with such noise that they sounded like the report of a .22 pistol.

Anyway, think I am going to just do as you suggest and drop in some TOTO sinks. May as well replace the plumbing at the same time.

God bless TOTO. That Ultramax II is nothing short of amazing. It may not pass golf balls (a publicity stunt of course) but it did pass an entire box of interfolded Kleenex. The super finish is nothing short of amazing. We actually have taken the Ajax cleanser out of the bathrooms and I am thinking of putting up wee signs that say "No abrasive cleansers" on the bottom of the seats. We put some dishwashing detergent ON the surface and it was a bugger to flush off. In fact it was tough to wash off with a plastic brush. It stuck like glue and took several unassisted flushes to rid completely; but boy was that one clean toilet!

In my almost 60 years I have used and flushed MANY a toilet all over this world of ours and on every continent. The TOTO Ultramax II is without a doubt the best of the best. I am wondering now how the Drake is for our powder room and master bathroom; or I may just go right to the Ultramax for those as well.

We think we will only be in the house for another few years before selling and moving to something small (one of a sixplex plus one of a sixplex stateside); those for sure will all have Ultramax II's in them and TOTO throughout.

Terry, thank you for providing an invaluable service with this site and I only wish that you were closer to Toronto/Buffalo/Orlando.

03-13-2010, 05:42 PM
Terry, I ordered the Ultramax -- will it come with the CT 854 or do I need to order that too?

03-13-2010, 06:35 PM
That part number is close to the body of the toilet
Normally, the boxes I'm selling are MS854114S and come with the SS114 softclose seat.

I don't know from your part number if they are selling you the seat with the toilet or not.

03-13-2010, 06:57 PM
I meant the intake valve and flapper/overflow tube -- does that come with the toilet?

03-13-2010, 08:49 PM
It wouldn't do you much good if they were selling toilets without the tank parts.

Toilets are sold as complete working units.

03-30-2010, 12:23 AM
Well, we've had the Ultramax top of the line in for several weeks now and WOWEE! are they incredible. Two more toilets in the house and they are both going to be replaced by either the Ultramax or the Drake (Ultramax is a known performer here now). We have not had anything even remotely resembling an issue with out Ultramax and the Sanigloss finish keeps it nice and clean although we do toss in some disinfectant dishwashing liquid and brush it every now and again when we are mopping the floor; and we use a few disinfectant wipes on the surfaces and toss them down the toilet as well. What a difference from the American Standard stuff we had! We are also going to be replacing the American Standard sinks with new Toto's as well....... frankly, they suck and so does their customer service. The sinks are defective due to rivetting popping the ceramics over the years. Called AS and they said jump in a lake. Guess I can understand that. You've got a bazillion defective sinks out there and you sure don't want to replace them all under implied warranty right? Cheap enough...... we'll toss in Toto's simply cuz we love their stuff. After checking out the salt and pepper test videos on utube where the pepper did not get flushed down the first try we are now staying clear of Koehler as well.... it may look bold but we'd prefer it flushed boldly, where no man has gone before, etc.

Toto... you've got us hooked.

Thanks for making the website available; it has been invaluable.

04-01-2010, 07:55 PM
Well I certainly did some research on these toilets and the TOTO looked the way to go. I purchased an Ultramax with soft closing seat and installed it into our main bathroom.
We are pretty happy with it's "takeaway" power although it still ocassionally leaves small "floaters" when refilling. My 5 year old Crane never did that. I actually took the Crane and installed it in a basement bathroom to replace a terrible unit by Gerber. The Crane works very well down there as well.
My biggest gripe with the TOTO is the seat. It is sooo uncomfortable and unfortunately I didn't get a comfort height unit so I miss that added reach for my 6'2" frame. I don't mind getting a little further down though, it's just the seat is really contoured and I can't imagine it fitting everybody the same.
I'm on the skinny side of skinny and I may have to look for a different seat if that is possible.
All in all I'm not so sure a $600cdn toilet is the way to go however it's in now and of course a keeper. I would have liked to have tried a Cadet from American Standard, or even the Drake model which would have saved me some scratch. My Crane was $180.00!!!!

04-03-2010, 05:00 AM
I am flabbergasted by your Ultramax experience considering the other reviews it has received and our own experience with it. It is utterly amazing here. Never do we find ANYTHING left over after a low volume flush. If you hold the handle down for a second you will get more water flowing for the flush I believe... might want to try that, but we have never had to do that. To test out mine, in a brave and bold moment, I took a whole box of Kleenex (a large box at that) pulled out the block of tissue, tossed it in the toilet and flushed it down. Not a problem. We occasionally have some stickage with an unusually large teenage 'dump' but a second or third flush leaves the toilet pristine. Always. And we put some mild dishwashing liquid into the toilet and use a plastic brush to clean it every week and use antiseptic wipes on the exterior and seat at the same time or when needed. It is by far the best 'crapper' that we have ever had so I am thinking that your issues may be more with venting or line constriction?

Well I certainly did some research on these toilets and the TOTO looked the way to go. I purchased an Ultramax with soft closing seat and installed it into our main bathroom.
We are pretty happy with it's "takeaway" power although it still ocassionally leaves small "floaters" when refilling. My 5 year old Crane never did that. I actually took the Crane and installed it in a basement bathroom to replace a terrible unit by Gerber. The Crane works very well down there as well.
My biggest gripe with the TOTO is the seat. It is sooo uncomfortable and unfortunately I didn't get a comfort height unit so I miss that added reach for my 6'2" frame. I don't mind getting a little further down though, it's just the seat is really contoured and I can't imagine it fitting everybody the same.
I'm on the skinny side of skinny and I may have to look for a different seat if that is possible.
All in all I'm not so sure a $600cdn toilet is the way to go however it's in now and of course a keeper. I would have liked to have tried a Cadet from American Standard, or even the Drake model which would have saved me some scratch. My Crane was $180.00!!!!

Reader Review
04-20-2010, 01:54 PM
just purchased an Ultramax from you. It looks good, it works good and was a breeze to install. Thanks a lot.
I'll be getting another one this summer.

S. Newkirk
Auburn WA

04-21-2010, 10:04 AM
just purchased an Ultramax from you. It looks good, it works good and was a breeze to install. Thanks a lot.
I'll be getting another one this summer.

S. Newkirk
Auburn WA

Now, THAT is a 100% correct and appropriate review in a nutshell. We are working up the energy to replace our other two toilets in the house with the same. They are awesome.

05-11-2010, 07:37 AM
Hi Terry,

I just installed a Toto MS854114SG-01 Ultramax Elongated One Piece Toilet with Sanagloss. Installation seemed fine but I noticed something odd when I flushed. The toilet flushes quite well but I noticed that water is streaming out of the top of the g-max fill valve (underneath the cap.) Is this normal?

Thanks for your help!

It's part of the normal operation of the anti-siphon.
It prevents an illegal cross connection.
Terry Love

06-03-2010, 06:54 PM
Can the Ultramax be installed on tile with the standard 2 bolt or will I have to have additional holes drilled into the tile?

06-04-2010, 10:34 AM
The Ultramax is a quick and simple install using the standard flange and two closet bolts.
Everthing is pre adjusted from the factory.


07-05-2010, 01:10 PM
Installed my Ultramax ten years ago, thanks to advice from Terry's website. Overall it has been good, not great. I should mention we are a family of three, we do not abuse the fixtures, I am under 190 lbs, another family member is 120 lbs, third is about 75 lbs.
The good:
--"Does the job" as Terry says. That is the most important feature. Reasonably quiet. Attractive appearance with the low-profile one-piece styling.
The bad:
--Just about all the moving parts have failed and required replacement:
--Soft-close seat: bumpers broke within a couple years. Rather than buy the expensive Toto replacement that was just as cheaply made, I bought a Kohler soft-close seat that fit pretty well and has had no problems.
--Fill valve failed after about two years. Purchased the correct Toto replacement part, expensive, it failed after about two more years. Worst of all--when they failed, they leaked water onto the floor, just enough not to notice until we saw water dripping into the basement. Replaced with generic hardware store valve, no problems since.
--Yesterday the trip lever failed. During a party with many guests. "Hey, the toilet won't flush." Inspection revealed that a concealed piece of the pot metal casting had worn completely through, so it would no longer engage the brass lift bar. Fortunately I was able to jury rig a fix with a wire tie, which will hold until a new trip lever arrives from the Internet plumbing supply. Had noticed the trip lever action had been sloppy in recent months.
--I also ordered a new flapper. The flapper on this toilet has long been too quick to close, requiring user to hold down lever for 5 seconds or so to ensure a complete flush. It's possible that behavior was an early symptom of the trip lever wear.

This is a product with good fundamental design and disappointing quality. The parts that failed were cheaply executed--inadequate materials. The main one-piece casting has held up well and still looks good.

I have been around long enough, lived with enough toilets, to say I've never seen so many problems like this. On the other hand, with many of those others, a plunger was a permanent accessory stored next to the toilet. I have needed to plunge this one maybe half-a-dozen times in ten years. And it just about always needs only one flush.

If I were going to spend $500 today on a new toilet, I would look at the current alternatives before buying another Toto, although would still consider Toto.

With that said, I am grateful to Terry for his site, I learned a lot here. Without Terry's site I probably would have bought a low-flow system with poor performance, which cannot be fixed no matter how good the ancillary hardware might be.

08-03-2010, 08:26 PM
I was considering the Carolina, but the Ultramax seems like a better toilet. From my understanding, and forgive me for not reading all 7 pages of posts, the difference between the Ultimate and the Ultramax is the flushing system where the Ultramax contains 9 litres of water but uses 6 on the flush and the Ultimate fills with 6 litres and uses all 6 for the flush. This is what the guy at the store told me. He said that he didn't have any of the Ultramax in but could convert an Ultimate to an Utramax by switching out the guts in the tank. Is this correct or should I totall steer clear of this reseller?

08-03-2010, 10:02 PM
As far as I know, none of the low-flow toilets use all the water in the tank...they all have more in there which helps give it a bit more oomph (sort of like a water tower). The only way to get a toilet to use all the water in the tank these days is to either hold the handle down, or substitute incorrect parts, and then, at least with a good toilet, you're wasting water. G-Max has been Toto's best flushing system. Their newest one is the dual-cyclone flush used on some of the newest low-flow HET toilets. Any of them that use the 3" flush valve have the ability to dump all of the water quickly, which is what pushes things out of the bowl.

08-03-2010, 11:22 PM
The Ultimate and the Ultramax use the same porcelain.
The Ultramax was supposed to be their "HOTEL" version of the Ultimate. Toto figured the Ultimate worked plenty well enough for home use. I personally had one installed for two years, and it got heavy use with big crowds on weekends. It went two years before I needed a plunger, and then I didn't even know where to fine one.
The Ultramax maintains a higher water level in the bowl, with the fill valve set higher and the higher overflow tube.
Since the water leaves the tank quicker, TOTO used the red flapper with the hole in the lower portion to speed up the drop. It's rated at 1.6 gallons.
The Ultimate, with the lower water level, needed the slower closing blue flapper that was plugged on the bottom, and because the water was slower to leave the tank, it still uses 1.6 gallons.
If they only have the Ultimate, I wouldn't worry about it, they work fine. And if you think you really need more water, just hold the handle down a pause more.
The Ultimate is a little quieter, since the water flows through slower. If the Ultramax had never come out, I would be selling plenty of Ultimates. But like anything in marketing, you can never be too quick, too large, or too new. Even if the old dog has been herding the sheep just fine the whole time.

08-04-2010, 07:26 AM
Thanks for the info. I would think, then, if I get the Ultimate and I'm not happy with the flush or whatever, I can change out the fill valve, overflow tube and flapper myself and it becomes an Ultramax. I was thinking more about condensation on the tank. If the cold water mixes with room temp water in the tank -- less likely to sweat. And the more water left over in the tank after the flush, the less likely it will happen.

08-04-2010, 08:57 AM
Both tanks have water left over in the tank.
I don't think condensation has ever been an issue.

All toilets since 1992 use only a portion of the water in the tank.

08-04-2010, 09:15 AM
OK, that's great, thank you.

Reader Review
09-05-2010, 10:23 AM
Hi Terry,
I bought a Toto UltraMax at your suggestion. Love it.
Now about to put in another toilet. The current toilet has a handle on the front. The Toto UltraMax wont work because the toilet must fit into a not wide space. The Toto UltraMax has the handle on the side and it would be hard to reach.
I would like to stick with Toto and I saw the Toto Clayton on your website which has a handle on the front. It should fit and the handle would be easy to reach. Have you had any experience with the Toto Clayton? Hopefully, it behaves the same as the Toto UltraMax.
Thanks in advance.
Donald S

Performance in the Clayton is also good

Wish I lived in Seattle so I could come and see you guys. Thanks again.

09-05-2010, 01:32 PM
Sounds like you don't have the minimum mandated space for the toilet (15" from the centerline). This could give you grief with the building inspectors. Some places require a permit to install a new toilet, some don't, and many ignore that fact. Some of the Totos can be ordered with the tank guts reversed...i.e., the handle on the right. This is true for at least some of them sold as ADA complient toilets where the handle is required to be on the door side of the stall (i.e., not stuck next to the wall).

09-07-2010, 12:08 PM
I am in the market for a new, water-saving toilet. From this site it seems like the UltraMax is the way to go. I see on Toto's website that they have an UltraMax II with double cyclone flushing and 1.28 gpf. Does anyone have experience with this new system and the 1.28 gpf capacity? Does it clean the bowl and resist clogging? We have septic and three young kids so I am trying to use the least amount of water possible for savings and wear and tear while minimizing clogging, as kids can do.

Thank you.

09-07-2010, 12:58 PM
Use the search function...you'll get lots of hits. While I can't comment on other brands, the Totos at 1.28g work as well as their 1.6g, older versions. The double cyclone makes eventual cleaning easier since there's no rim to hide crud, and it does wash the bowl. Just keep in mind that no low-flow toilet washes as well as the old ones that could use as much as 8g. Sanagloss also helps, as it is much smoother and things don't stick as well, which makes them wash off easier.

09-16-2010, 07:20 PM
I'm ready to buy the Ultramax to replace my current toilet, but after looking at the spec sheet, I'm worried it might not fit. My current toilet has a 12'' rough in, but it also sits four inches from the wall. According to the spec sheet for the Ultramax, it is supposed to sit less than an inch from the wall, which I can't do because I have cut-off valves on the floor between the wall and the toilet--see picture below. Will the Ultramax still fit? If not, can someone recommend a comparable toilet that will fit? Thank you!

09-17-2010, 01:43 PM
The rough-in is determined by measuring from the finished wall (not th ebaseboard unless it is very high) to the center of the toilet flange, which is normally also the bolts that hold the toilet to it. The important thing about the shutoff is how far offset from the centerline of the toilet is it. The space at the back of the toilet to the wall on the drawings is related to a standard rough-in. If the rough-in is not standard, then you either get a different toilet to match it, it won't fit, or you have a bigger space behind it than designed. Some (not all) toilets are available with 10, 12, or 14" rough-ins.

09-17-2010, 01:50 PM
Neither the Drake or the Ultramax will work if you have the shutoff behind the bowl and the wall like that.
You will need to look at some small footprint bowls.
The TOTO Aquia may work for that.


09-18-2010, 01:01 PM
Hi - What great information! Thank you Terry. Terry's information over the years convinced us to purchase the Toto Ultramax. They are two years old now and one has developed a squeak on refilling. The annoying squeak lasts from a second to about 10 seconds. It doesn't appear to leak from the seal. I see the new fill valve is TSU18A. Do you think I need to replace it? Thanks in advance.

09-18-2010, 01:32 PM
I would first make sure that the shutoff at the wall is open all the way.
If that is open, and it squeaks for that long, you may need replacement.

09-20-2010, 08:58 AM
Thank you very much for the advice; you saved me from buying toilet I'd have to return. The Aquia looks great (does it matter which version?), but the spec sheet for it doesn't seem to list the space between the wall and the back of toilet. Would it leave me with 3-4'' of open floor space? The valve above appears to be on the centerline of the toilet, so I'd need some open space there in the back of the Aquia. From the wall to the bolts on my current toilet is 12''.

Reader Review
10-18-2010, 10:30 AM
bought a Toto Ultramax ADA height from you a few weekends ago (well not you exactly, one of your workers). The toilet is amazing - thanks!
C. Honcoop
Bothell WA

12-20-2010, 07:57 AM
Just received Ultramax to install 1.6g. If I put a brick in the tank, would it work like an EcoMax?

12-20-2010, 11:39 AM
No. The tank never empties, so placing the brick there does nothing.
The Eco version has a weighted flapper.

12-29-2010, 04:21 PM
Has anyone had experience with the Utramax II ADA? I have read many good things about the UltraMax but the only place I have seen anything about the UltraMax II is in Consumer Report and they did not like it. Thanks.

12-29-2010, 04:55 PM
I have a couple of those (Ultramax II) in my home. Great toilets! If I had to buy another toilet right now, that's exactly what I would get (unless I win the lottery and decide to get the $3000 Toto!)

The Ultramax II has the "double cyclone" bowl wash, and a great flush. It is actually kind of amazing to watch it effortlessly remove just about anything you can send its way.

i got the one-piece model and like the look of it and the lack of a gap between tank and bowl. The "MaP" figures show a better capacity for the two-piece, but I haven't had any trouble with the one-piece units getting clogged.

12-29-2010, 05:47 PM
I sell a lot of the Ultramax II toilets, and they work great. I have one in my main bath.
CR put a plug in the toilet they shot video of. Any plumber that sees the CR video will tell you, they plugged the toilet, and then shot the video.
My question is why? Their lawyers have already sent me letters asking me to quit reviewing plumbing products, but guess what, I think a plumber should review plumbing products. I've been in the plumbing business since 1974, it only makes sense.

Here is a video of how my Ultramax II works.


12-30-2010, 06:31 AM
Thank you for your feedback and the information you supply to everyone. I wish i was in Washington state so I could get my toilet from you.

01-24-2011, 12:31 AM
Do you think an Ultramax toilet and a Blooming Bidet Model NB-R1060 (http://www.easycarts.net/ecarts/terrylove/Bidet_Seats.html#NB-R160)(both elongated), would be a
good combination?

01-24-2011, 07:27 AM
Yes, that combination would work out well.

Blooming Bidet (http://terrylove.biz/home/80-blooming-bidet.html)

01-24-2011, 10:09 PM
Thanks Terry, I'll let you know how it works out.

02-21-2011, 06:39 PM
Renovation complete, installed Ultramax Saturday.. not impressed. Plunger was out day #2 .
(couple extra flushes, bowl filled to the rim..)
Someone earlier commented the flush was pathetic, I'd have to agree. Does not last long enough to flush the "waste".
The stoppage was not the result of anything extra ordinary at all....

02-21-2011, 06:49 PM
Renovation complete, installed Ultramax Saturday.. not impressed. Plunger was out day #2 .
(couple extra flushes, bowl filled to the rim..)
Someone earlier commented the flush was pathetic, I'd have to agree. Does not last long enough to flush the "waste".
The stoppage was not the result of anything extra ordinary at all....

You probably have a partial blockage somewhere downstream from the toilet - perhaps even the wax ring intruding on the toilet flange.

These toilets are very well engineered - the flush volume is designed to only allow part of the water in the tank to enter the bowl, and it comes in quickly, so it can seem like the amount of time and water is not enough - but it certainly is.

The toilet needs be pulled and the cause of the blockage found out. It's not the toilet's fault.

02-21-2011, 07:09 PM
Good, Bad, indifferent?


02-27-2011, 10:53 AM
It can depend on the paper used. Charmin has issues I know.

Toilet paper Poll (http://terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1661&highlight=paper)

03-13-2011, 01:20 PM
A bit too much,
courtesy of a 6yo..


03-13-2011, 05:14 PM
The way that clogged it looks like it stopped at the end of the trapway. If you used a wax ring with a plastic horn it could have been pushed off center when the toilet was set, that would cause it to clog like that. Even if it were installed centered properly, those wax rings with the plastic horn seem to make the toilet more clog prone anyway. That's my guess.

03-14-2011, 03:17 PM
I used a thin wax ring, no plastic horn on it. Was kind of strange how it waited a few seconds.

04-26-2011, 07:27 PM
Hi Terry,
First off, this site is a lifesaver when planning a modular home!

My architect has specified the Eco Ultramax because we decided we wanted the larger 3" valve. However, it doesn't have the double cyclone flushing.

Do you have any insight as to whether the Ultramax II would be a better bet? Would the MaP rating make a difference here?

Thanks so much!

04-26-2011, 08:24 PM
I have the MS6041414CEFG Ultramax II upstairs. It cleans the bowl well.
Tall bowl, Sanagloss, double cyclone rinse.
I've been selling a lot of them.

The MaP rating is no help with bowl rinse. The guy that runs that test put in a Caroma and then complained that the bowl is dirty. Everyone knows that the Caroma is harder to keep clean.
It does have it's good points, but bowl rinse is not one of them.

The TOTO Ultramax II with 1.28 has been working fine.

04-26-2011, 09:00 PM
Thanks, Terry. But does the Ultramax II also have a 3" flush valve? Does the Eco version really not clean well due to the lack of the cyclone flushing?

04-26-2011, 10:00 PM
Most all Toto have the 3" flush valve in the tank.
Only the Aquia and the Carusoe don't.

The Eco works fine too, you can order the MS854114EG or MS854114ELG with Sanagloss.
Or get the Eco without Sanagloss. It's just that the CEFG is so well priced, at least if you like the taller bowls. But I have the non-cyclone downstairs and it works fine too. You can't really go wrong with these.

07-08-2011, 10:38 PM
I'm a TOTO fan! :D
I agonized on this decision (what toilet brand and model) for a long while and made the decision to go with TOTO with all the great feedback I hear about them. Then I had to decide which model...TOTO makes so many toilets you kind of get overwhelmed with information overload when you do your homework. I wasn't sure about the rough in size either but Terry helped me out with that in another post...THANKS TERRY!;) The 12" rough in worked perfectly.

Well I went with the Ultramax ADA height 1.6/GPF G-Max flush system.
This thing is awesome. I haven't double flushed yet. It's stayed clean with no skid marks or anything gross like that. Unlike my old Sterling toilet that didn't always rinse good enough or get rid of everything all the way.

My parents just bought a new toilet from Home Depot (can't remember the brand name). I'm sure it was a cheap toilet...my dad won't spend money for higher quality.
That toilet sucks...it doesn't get rid of all solid waste all the time and you have to double flush. He saved a buck on the toilet but will spend more money on water and sewer taxes.

Anyway...it is a great toilet and I made the right decision to go with TOTO.
It is a bit louder (than Sterling toilet)...more of a gurgle toward the end of the flush. Boy, it has great suction...it's that suction that makes the gurgle.
But it's quick and thorough. Refill is quick and has a bit of a kick when the water starts and stops. Love the no slam seat...though it shuts slowly.

Good thing I read on another site (that I bought it from) that the wax ring is NOT supplied. Everything else was pre-installed like the handle, chain, flapper, and fill valve.
I used small hack saw to cut off excess of the flange bolts.

Here's the end result...
Thanks again for the help guys.
I'm happily impressed.

07-09-2011, 07:45 AM
Congratulations! People that don't know about this site think it's a little weird to get excited about a toilet, but it is such a basic part of your home, that you use several times a day, and it's really nice just to have one that works well, every time.

I have a Gwyneth/Ultramax II (if memory serves) and it too has that fantastic suction effect followed by the gurgle. Toto engineers really did their homework and designed the flush system well.

07-09-2011, 04:59 PM
FWIW, today, you couldn't build a bathroom with the toilet located like that...current code (not sure when it applied) requires 15" either side of center (i.e., at least a 30" wide space) to install a toilet.

07-09-2011, 05:11 PM
FWIW, today, you couldn't build a bathroom with the toilet located like that...current code (not sure when it applied) requires 15" either side of center (i.e., at least a 30" wide space) to install a toilet.

Yep jadnashua...I hear ya. Obviously code was not followed when the bathroom was built. That's why I didn't go with the Drake. The Drake tank is wider and would have been even closer on each side and a way tighter fit.

07-09-2011, 05:48 PM
other than service, the width of the toilet is irrelevant (if it will fit)...it is the total width of the space, and any toilet made today should fit in there if the minimum of 30" is available.

07-13-2011, 11:42 AM
This is the toilet for those who are afraid to switch to low-flow models because they perceive them as inefficient. They don't have to be. They just have to be well designed. Yet, I, too, was skeptical about changing, until one of our 20-year old toilets started leaking and the other required constant babying of the pull chain mechanism.

I came across the TOTO Ultramax toilet. I loved the sleek look and the soft-close cover, so I took the plunge and bought two - had them installed - and was so thrilled at the efficiency of their G-Max flush performance with low water usage, that I immediately went out and bought two more (for installation at my father's house). He's thrilled, too. They are worth the money. They're quiet, efficient, attractive, and comfortable. And they're only one piece, so cleaning is easy. This toilet flushes so well that residue is not building up from tainted bowl water. The bowl empties on every flush. Hard to get excited about toilets, but they are probably the most important fixture in your house when you think about it. Model is: MS854114S Color: 01 (White)

Gary Swart
07-13-2011, 12:11 PM
Low flow toilets got off to a bad start years ago when many of the old, well known manufacturers tried to meet the low flow requirements by modifying the flush system on their old 3.5 gpf toilets. Some are still at it and some are still trying other gimmicks to make their old designs work. What it took to make low flow toilets work without clogging was a redesign of the basic toilet, and not so much the flushing mechanics. Toto understood this and the result was toilets that a nearly clog free. It appears to me that the toilet is one of the least understood appliances in our homes. Most of us do not realize there are real differences in toilets and just assume the old, well known brands are still the best there is. We are more likely to discuss pros and cons of various automobiles than we are to talk about toilets.

07-28-2011, 06:02 PM
Just finished (well, survived) a whole-house remodel, including installation of 3 Toto toilets, based largely on this site's recommendation (1-Ultramax, 2-Carlyle - 1.6 gpf, same flush mechanism). I am satisfied overall, but there is an annoying, screeching noise in all 3 of them during the flush cycle. After popping the lid to observe, I note that it happens as the tank starts to refill (the fill valve moves down and screeches) and then again when it's filled (the valve moves up and more screeches). We're talking LOUD - very audible outside the bathroom even with the fan turned on. Any suggestions for taming this noise would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

07-28-2011, 07:04 PM
First, make sure that the shutoff at the wall is fully opened. Then, check you're water pressure. If it exceeds 80psi, you need a pressure reduction valve, and that may resolve it.

07-29-2011, 08:31 PM
First, make sure that the shutoff at the wall is fully opened. Then, check you're water pressure. If it exceeds 80psi, you need a pressure reduction valve, and that may resolve it.

Thanks - I tried adjusting the shutoff - fully open, 3/4 open, etc. and it didn't make any difference in the noise. The pressure was below 80 psi when it was tested at the beginning of the renovation (everything from the main cutoff on back was replaced). Are there any adjustments on the fill valve itself, or is it totally "preset"?

07-30-2011, 12:46 PM
The only adjustment on the valve is the height (fill level) where it shuts off.

Toto uses a couple of different valves, if the one you have does NOT have a plastic screw on the top, then it is made for them by Korky. That one has one wear part in it. You might try replacing that cap for about $2.50 (available at Lowes and many hardware stores). While you've got it apart (it's easy, no tools required), you might clean the screen. Other than that, the things generally are pretty quiet.

01-18-2012, 06:17 PM
Just bought and installed this toilet (from Terry). I have to say I loved my 22 year old Eljer elongated bowl which had the same projection from the wall as all of the new round bowl toilets (it was 16 1/2"). As space is critical I had to go with the round bowl, and I wish I could have gone with the elongated bowl. Here is what is interesting, the actual opening with the seat up or removed is larger for the Toto, 13" front to back while the Eljer is 12". But the seat opening is more flush to the bowl with the Eljer while the Toto has a larger overlap. The Toto opening is 9 3/4" so it overhangs the bowl by 1 1/2" all around. Two questions, is there a toilet seat with a bigger opening? And much more important, I am about to remodel my other bathroom and I have in mind the Neorest 550, one reason is that it has less projection from the wall. But what is the seat opening size? I am having a little problem getting used to the new toilet seat opening (ouch!) but other than that I like it.

Thanks for any help, and looking forward to that Neorest.

01-18-2012, 07:40 PM
Are you using a Toto seat, or some other brand on the new toilet? At least on the Totos I've seen, the seat pretty much lines up with the porcelain of the bowl with no overlap. On an aftermarket one, all bets are off except that the attachment bolts will line up.

01-18-2012, 08:37 PM
Yes, it fits flush the the outside but the lip on the inside is 1" to 2"+ from the toilet bowl. The Eljer was almost flush to the bowl in the front and it wasn't a problem.

01-19-2012, 04:07 PM
I think they do make an open front one, but that may be only in the elongated bowl versions. That's designed more for commercial applications.

01-19-2012, 08:15 PM
Any regular seat will fit on the round bowl Ultramax.
I do sell mainly elongated bowl toilets though. I'm not a big fan of round bowls.

05-18-2012, 05:52 AM
I installed a TOTO Ultra Max a while back, and am havind a water hammer issue. It seems that the fill value is "slamming" shut rather than easing shut. Can this be adjusted?

05-18-2012, 08:55 AM
It depends on the fill valve that you have. Some of their fill valves shut off quicker.
You may want to look at the Korky MaxPerformance valve if you want a softer shutoff.

Sometimes they come with the Korky style, and sometimes not.

I've seen some customers where there toilets had been leaking so long, that when you replaced them and tightened up the system, they found out they had water hammer. A system with constant leaking; you never notice hammer.

10-06-2012, 06:14 AM
It depends on the fill valve that you have. Some of their fill valves shut off quicker.
You may want to look at the Korky MaxPerformance valve if you want a softer shutoff.

To Viking and Terry...

It's just been over a year since I installed my TOTO Ultramax (and love it), but the fill valve was always temperamental.
It always would make a squeak or chirp noise when water started or stopped. Though I never had water hammer.
I've cleaned and reseated the washer in the cap assembly which initially helped with a leak that allowed the water to trickle out of the fill valve after filling.

Recently I noticed that the original valve was letting water fill the tank ever so slowly after shut off.
You couldn't even hear it but noticed the water spot was higher than normal and when I opened the tank lid the water line was up to the overflow tube (even though the stopping point was a half inch below it). It usually took over 12 hours of non use for the water to over fill.

I was going to purchase the Korky 528T as a replacement.
Instead I tried the Max Performance by Korky purchased from Lowe's and it works perfectly.
You can adjust how much water flows into the overflow tube for bowl refilling for the perfect water spot depth.

It starts and stops water flow a bit slower (or softer) so I don't hear that squeak or chirp noise anymore (from sudden starting/stopping of water flow).

It does fill a tiny bit slower (by about five seconds) compared to the original fill valve which only took 20 seconds to fill.
So 25 seconds to refill is not a deal breaker.

I highly recommend the Korky MaxPerformance.

(Pictured is the original fill valve and the MaxPerformance fill valve as a comparison).

10-06-2012, 03:57 PM
GeorgeCT: The symptoms you experienced from the Voreto valve in your picture are exactly why I ripped it out and put in a Korky in my Drake. The 528MP is perfect for our Totos. As you may have read elsewhere on this forum, Toto is now selling basically the 528MP as its Universal Replacement fill valve. The packaging is different and the instructions are more precise, but it's basically the same thing. I'm glad it worked out for you.

04-06-2013, 11:18 AM

MS854114SL, ADA Ultramax

The previous bowl was the MS853113S, which they had for years, and now they've opted for the ADA version. They do like their TOTO!

04-06-2013, 11:32 AM
We purchased a Toto Ultramax elongated toiled in bone January of 2010 and we love it. Never had a problem with the toilet. However, the toilet seat that came with it is now wearing out as far as it's ability to close slowly. The bottom half still closes slowly but the top part slams shut. Not sure if there is an easy fix for this or if we need to purchase a new seat.

04-06-2013, 02:15 PM
We purchased a Toto Ultramax elongated toiled in bone January of 2010 and we love it. Never had a problem with the toilet. However, the toilet seat that came with it is now wearing out as far as it's ability to close slowly. The bottom half still closes slowly but the top part slams shut. Not sure if there is an easy fix for this or if we need to purchase a new seat. Toto's response will be buy a new seat. If you do a search on this website, and are willing to play with it, someone found a source for the hydraulic damping fluid used in the hinge and posted instructions on how to take it apart. You may also need a couple of O-rings. So, depends on your skill level and willingness to tinker. My oldest one is more than 10-years old, and still functions fine. I do think if (guests?) push it closed, especially fast, that it can force the fluid past the seals and once it is depleted, there's nothing to slow it down. Funny story...A friend mentioned to me he'd installed a new soft-close seat on the toilet while we were talking with his wife listening. This had been several months previously. His wife blurted out 'I've been pushing it closed...I thought it was just tight!' Then, she went in and tried just letting it go on its own to verify...sometimes, you have to let people know not to try to close it...just get it started.

01-11-2014, 11:15 AM
bump this thread