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View Full Version : Toto Drake Smearing Observation



Looloo
02-04-2006, 07:32 AM
I still don't have a solution to the Drake smearing but I now have a better undersatnding of the problem.

Sometimes post flush fecal smears are left on the throat of the Drake and sometimes not. I've determined that they are left when the pile of preflush excrement is large enough to stick up a few inches above the water line (think ice berg).

I believe it is the weight of the above-water-line portion of the pile that presses the below-water-line portion of the pile against the sides of the below-water-line throat of the Drake.

Smaller volume bms that stay below-water-line or float do not leave fecal smears.

This observation may explain why some Drake owners have the problem and others don't.

Does this match the experience of you who are having the below-water-line smearing/staining problem with the Drake?

This observation does not apply to above-water-line splatter that remains after flushing. I believe that is simply a result of not having a full bowl wash toilet.

jimbo
02-04-2006, 07:42 AM
Remind me not to visit this forum before breakfast!

Dunbar Plumbing
02-04-2006, 08:21 AM
Eat 6 bowls of total for supper every night and I promise this problem will go away.

http://img56.photobucket.com/albums/v170/meeesh/cereal.jpg

Or use that Teflon bowl cleaner that Terry has information on in this toilet forum.

http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4966

Dunbar Plumbing
02-05-2006, 11:43 AM
Six bowls of total would add to the problem because it would increase the size of the dump and further squish the below-water-line portion against the throat of the Drake.



Okay, the visual on this is quite disturbing and my lunch appointment has been delayed.

I believe, and Terry can correct me that on the Drake model that you can hold the trip lever down to delay the short closing of the flapper like say a Kohler Cimmarron offers. This offers a longer flush cycle and more volume of water to cleanse the bowl after use.

This topic comes and goes in numerous forums but it usually pins back to certain users and doesn't speak for the majority. Otherwise the issue would flood the internet with a common complaint, just like the AS Champion is suffering from. Mansfield toilets have the same luxury of the hold flush; uses more water but the toilet will double flush for those excessive bean paste pileups in the bowl.

Terry
02-06-2006, 10:06 AM
I bought a Ford Taurus onetime.

It worked pretty well, but didn't get many looks from women.
I was thinking how nice it would be if the dealer took it back and let me get the Mustang instead.
What was I thinking?

If your old toilet was so good? Why did you replace it?

jdkimes
02-06-2006, 02:36 PM
I guess it's just like Seinfeld, maybe one of the writers had a Toto...

"Gotta love The Drake!" (everyone except George said this)
"I hate The Drake" (after Drake gave the big screen TV gift from the gang to his fiance who subsequently gave it to Goodwill)

I say: Love the Drake!! Cripes, doesn't every toilet get a few skidmarks, smears, battle scars, poop stains, fecal remains, whatever. It flushes perfectly, quickly and in my opinion quietly. Also, by the way, I don't care if the tank wobbles!!
GOTTA LOVE THE DRAKE!!!!!!!!!!!

(don't care for Taurus's though, that's just the way it is)

cattledog
02-07-2006, 07:56 AM
I too have had some smearing issues with a Tota ultramax which I recently installed. This is my first 1.6g toilet with a large, low in the bowl, siphon injection and while I am pleased with the flushing performance, bowl cleanliness, both above and below the water line, is an occaisional problem.

My question is whether the washdown design toilets (Caroma, Acquia) have better performance in regards to bowl cleanliness. I was concerned about the small water spot, but is this a factor? Test results show equivalent flush performance (bowl clearing as opposed to cleaning) but is this true in practice?

I'd like to hear from any people with experience with both types of toilets (siphon jet vs washdown) as to the overall performance.

Mike50
02-07-2006, 12:16 PM
This observation does not apply to above-water-line splatter that remains after flushing. I believe that is simply a result of not having a full bowl wash toilet.

We are ALL unique LooLoo So, a more accurate statement might be that *Your*
personal needs require as much water volume that as is available.
The Solution may be: Do not shop for brand. Shop for these needs.
No doubt, ToTo tested this toilet and the vast majority of people only encounter the smearing rarely
Some folks are simply more prone to smearing due to your individual
body chemistry and personal habits;of which we are all unique.

example: I cannot wear shirts that contain any polyester at all. Why?
Because it causes excessive body odor on ME. That's My particular body chemistry. It doesn't mean that Calvin Klein makes a bad product. To the contrary-100% cotton works great.

Unfortunately you found this out too late-which is actually *no ones fault including the manufacturer*
We all know what smearing is-it happens to some much more than others
and they need to understand that-as uncomfortable and weird as it may be
to contemplate.

If you do a clever google search you just may find reviews that address this awkward issue.
Manufacturers cannot advertise this feature for obvious reasons.

I am sure one of these pros on Terrys board can address the issue with suggestions
that will hopefully give you are variety of choices. These fellows are smart cookies.

Personally speaking....I would donate the toilet to a half way house or something like that if your budget allows you to do that, and replace it.

Mike

plumber1
02-07-2006, 12:35 PM
I admit it, I'm just out of the loop because I've never heard or seen more comments about a toilet than the "Toto".
Back where I'm from, I've only seen one.
Do they have more problems than the other brands?
I keep seeing some of the same comments.
Why arent other makes commented on as much?
May be my old fashioned view of things.
Spent a life time doing repairs some of this just seems too much.

jdkimes
02-07-2006, 12:41 PM
"Gotta love the Drake!"

Terry
02-07-2006, 02:21 PM
Plumber 1,

The Toto has less problems than most others,
but since they are mentioned on this board, I seem to collect every comment there is on them.

I have many more bad comments on American Standard (http://terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4833&highlight=champion)than all the other brands.

Other brands of toilets have the same "smearing" problem. It's not a brand thing.
Normally there is a choice between large flush valve and standard flush valve.
Some types will divert more water for the flush, and some have more for bowl rinse.
Some of the better bowl rinse models, I see a lot of when I haul them to the dump. They are not for everyone.
I get the same comments on all the brands.

I think that some buyers expect an impossible standard that can't be met, "period"!

Most of my Toto sales are repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat sales.
What does that tell you.
Over the last year, I have sold
90% Toto (http://www.terrylove.com/wwwboard/messages2/42891.html) toilets
4% Caroma (http://www.terrylove.com/wwwboard/messages2/50684.html)
2% American Standard (http://www.terrylove.com/wwwboard/messages2/42893.html)
2% Gerber
less than 1% Eljer
less than 1% Crane
less than 1% Kohler
less than 1% Western

I sell Toto to the same people over and over again, to their friends and to their work mates.
But, since I do have so much written about Toto here, I attract a few people that want everyone to know that their poop is hard to get rid of.
If they had bought one of the other brands that I sell, they would be complaining too about them too.

I have plenty of complaints on the Caroma for smearing, but most of those purchasers are "green" enough, that they live with it.

More of the Kohler (http://terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4834&highlight=cimarron+review) is sold in big box, and there are cleanliness issues with the large flush valve models too, and yes I get their complaints also.

Some of the toilets have other problems and you don't even get to all of the issues.

Or to put it this way, if the other brands had better PR from the homeowners, I'm sure I would be selling more of them.

I sell all brands.

http://terrylove.com/wc/toto/inside_tank_cst744s.jpg
Inside of a Drake tank. Fill valve and flapper are easy to find and replace.
Both are made by Korky (http://www.korky.com).

plumber1
02-07-2006, 03:45 PM
Terry, I'm sure you are right. I'm from a small town north of Ann Arbor, Michigan and most of my customers have not replaced with that brand. I saw Toto for the first time when I was in Tucson 3 years ago and that supplier was high on them.

I just have to service some to see what they are like.

I think more have been used on the west coast than here in Michigan. I don't do any new house plumbing work, only service and if I needed to replace a toilet I probably wouldn't go there till I at least serviced a few Totos

Are new houses out there using Toto?
If they do probably using a competitive model.

jdkimes
02-07-2006, 04:09 PM
The question that is really being ignored is this:
If you're paddling a canoe up a river and you give your cat some peanut butter how many pancakes does it take to shingle a doghouse?
The answer (and Terry you know this is true): None because ice cream doesn't bounce.
It just really doesn't!

chassis
02-07-2006, 07:05 PM
jd I'm with you. Not sure I've ever invited my neighbors or dinner guests to see and compare toilet smearing.

plumber1, we lived in AA for several years, also the wife and I went to school there (UM). Love the area north and west of town. Did lots of fishing on North Lake. Miss it alot.

Cass
02-08-2006, 04:09 AM
I have an answer to the staining problem. It will be more $$$ for us plumbers.

The answer to the problem is......

Toilet Bowl Liners

Yes my friends, It's the new Ronco Toilet Bowl Liners to the rescue.

You simply turn off the water to your toilet and remove all water from the bowl.

Dry the bowl out with a small towell.

Then apply the sticky tabs on the Bowl Liners to the Toilet bowl leaving the strip tab tuching the rim of the bowl.

After each use, and if required, you just pull the strip tab tab and flush the liner.

Stain is gone!!!!!!

The new Ronco Bowl Liners are good for 50 flushes/uses B4 a new application is required.

Think of the sales and they can only be applied by Licenced plumbers!!!!!!

Get yours today.

Mike50
02-08-2006, 05:37 AM
great...I can't wait for smarmy old Ron Popeil to have his daughter demonstrate the liners on TV in his test kitchen.

Cass
02-08-2006, 02:40 PM
Coming to a TV near you

chassis
02-08-2006, 08:04 PM
Yeah, awesome stuff. What company is making these so I can buy their stock!! :D

Snowman
02-09-2006, 08:06 PM
I too have had some smearing issues with a Tota ultramax which I recently installed. This is my first 1.6g toilet with a large, low in the bowl, siphon injection and while I am pleased with the flushing performance, bowl cleanliness, both above and below the water line, is an occaisional problem.
My question is whether the washdown design toilets (Caroma, Acquia) have better performance in regards to bowl cleanliness. I was concerned about the small water spot, but is this a factor? Test results show equivalent flush performance (bowl clearing as opposed to cleaning) but is this true in practice?
I'd like to hear from any people with experience with both types of toilets (siphon jet vs washdown) as to the overall performance.

Here's the solution. It does make a difference.
http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4966