Not a toilet scientist

Hi ,

Terry Love's website is highly recommended, read about great reviews and information regarding toilets on gardenweb ! I am grateful for your website, know you guys can help.

I have a small powder room, time to update floor and wallpaper ...so the floor guy took out the old original toilet ( from when the house was built , 30 years ago ), I thought I'd simply go to the local box store and replace it, how hard could that be?

First, I've discovered my options are narrowed because there is a 10 inch ( not the standard 12 inch ) clearance. The old toilet never flushed that good and I always held my breath when guests used it. ( It did work better than a newer one upstairs which turned out to be some type of toilet that conserves water). We have a well, so actually water consumption is not a big personal issue ( outside of the environment). We have hard water which makes white toilet bowls look yucky, even with water softener . The powder room is in the middle of the hallway, so noise reduction would be a nice touch.

Too many considerations , haven't purchased a toilet in years and I don't have time or energy to study up on toilet science , so I would appreciate some bottom line recommendations with these considerations ... a 10" clearance, powerful flush, quiet flush, skirted design and/or one piece, smaller size model for a small room with a pedestal sink, installation without a plumber, CEFIONTECT or other finish ( if it will help guard against hard water deposits).

Appreciate your input in advance.

Look at the Toto line. Toto is the only manufacturer that makes an adapter that allows some of their toilets to be installed on a 10" rough-in. A couple of important facts. These adapter work only on certain models of Toto toilets, they will not work on other brands or even other models of Toto. Second, Toto toilets are not sold in box stores or discount houses. Most plumbing stores can order them if they do not stock them. They are available on line, however you need to be aware that on line toilets are sometimes broken in shipment. The seller will make good on them, but it will take some time. The main point I would stress is this. Toto is the largest manufacturer of toilets in the entire world. They are that good. The models that use the Unifit adapter are skirted models and are very stylish. On yeah, they're good, but they aint cheap.

To build on what Gary said, one of the great workhorse Toto toilets is the Original Drake. It is also a good value. They make a version that goes on a 10" rough-in (10" from finished wall to centerline of the waste hole, called the "closet flange"). It is not skirted however. It sells for $230-ish in white and is an elongated bowl at universal height. It is part number CST744SF.10 or CST744EF.10. The first one is 1.6gpf, the second is 1.28gpf. Both work very well.

If you want skirted, it will cost you a little more, but it then allows you to install the toilet using the Unifit adapter, which will fit the toilet perfectly on a 10", 12" or 14" rough-in. The thing comes with a 12" Unifit. You toss that and buy the 10" Unifit. The toilets that work with a 10" Unifit adapter are:

Aimes
Carlyle II
Carolina II
Eco Guinevere
Eco Lloyd
Eco Soiree
Legato
Pacifica
Vespin II

Also, the dual-flush Aquia comes in a 10" rough-in version CST412MF.10

You can Google each one to see a picture of it, or go to the totousa.com web site and type the name in the search box on the upper right to see the info. Don't be scared by the list prices. All are available for about 30-40% off that price. Do research elsewhere to see what they really sell for. Let us know if you need more info.

streamliner said:

We have hard water which makes white toilet bowls look yucky, even with water softener . The powder room is in the middle of the hallway, so noise reduction would be a nice touch.

Click to expand...

I have hard water, too. Every single two piece toilet I peek at has the two mounting bolts rusting or calcium encrusted. The idea of replacing the gasket between the tank and the bowl doesn't appeal to me either. So I'm thinking of a one piece with the highest MaP Score available. You, like me, would probably like the Double Cyclone bowls because my hard water tends to clog the small bowl drain holes. Unfortunately Toto doesn't make a 10" rough in with CEFIONTECT. Well they do, but the problem is the centre line distance.

For example, if you get the MS614114CEF the water line has to be 8" from the centre line of the toilet. Mine is 5.5" so it's no go for me. https://terrylove.com/pdf/ms614114cefg_spec.pdf If you look at the second page on the bottom you'll see what I mean.

Since it's on the first floor (it's not in your master bedroom where no small children are likely to use it) you can probably get away with a non-ADA toilet.

That's where you start - select the 10" rough in, http://www.totousa.com/Products/Toilets/Search/tabid/447/Default.aspx?rough_in=10"
then by meauring the distance between the centre of the water supply valve and the centre line of the toilet.

6" centre line:
https://terrylove.com/pdf/cst744ef.10.pdf

7+3/4" centre line:
https://terrylove.com/pdf/cst412mf.10.pdf

8+1/2" centre line:
https://terrylove.com/pdf/cst474cefg-specs.pdf

The water supply has to be 6" up otherwise it will hit the base.

If you look at the schematic again, you'll see that the base is 11+13/16". If you make it an even 12", half of that is 6". So you may be able to install it up to about 6" from the centre line but you will probably need to replace the shut off valve with one that takes 1/4" of a turn to fully open/close. Just angle it so that you can get to it easily, maybe even buying, or modifying, one with a long handle. That's cheaper than breaking into the wall and re-positioning the water line.

No, those numbers aren't absolutes because some toilets have more available room in the back than the front.

As far as noise goes, if you buy a Toto with the China made valve you'll want to change it to a Korky valve. Do a search for that thread.

Actually, most of the skirted Totos will work on less than the 8" in the Spec Sheet. There are a few exceptions, though, but Terry recently posted which needed what. Generally, if it's coming out of the wall, you can get it in on 6" center to center on the II series, and maybe even 5.5, but check to see what Terry says, because he has installed them all. Also, there's usually a little room behind the skirt, so if the shutoff is mounted close to the wall, it works as well. I installed a new shutoff close to the wall before installing the toilet and it probably wasn't, strictly-speaking, necessary.

One very helpful product is the Dahl Toto Skirted Toilet shutoff valve, which is a highest-quality Dahl 1/4-turn ball valve that can be had in various flavors (compression, sweat, straight, angle, etc.) for your specific need, even making a nice-looking chromed 90 right out of the wall. See this piece for more info: http://www.dahlvalve.com/PDF/Skirted_Toilet_Brchre_US.pdf (Dahl used to market this specifically as helpful for skirted Totos, now they broadened it to say it's useful for all skirted toilets.)

If you can't find it locally, google dahl and the model number; there are a few places that sell it online, seems to be about 17-24 dollars from those suppliers for the compression one.