Question about hot water delivery system?

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JK60

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I would like to install a Laing hot water delivery system. It would be geared towards one sink in particular. This sink is frequently used and it takes a very long time before hot water arrives. A return line is not an option, so I have to choose between two Laing models the ACT-303-BTW or the ACT-202-BTW. With the former everything is installed next to the sink, whereas with the latter the valve is installed at the sink and the pump at the water heater. Has anyone had any experience with these systems or for that matter with similar systems from a different manufacturer? How well do they work? Any advantages/disadvantages of one type over the other? Is Laing a reliable brand?

Thank you,

Jerry
 

Gary Swart

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I use a Laing recirculating system, but mine has a return line. Laing is a very reliable company. I believe they supply the pumps for Hot Springs Spas.
 

Jadnashua

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I've been using a redi-temp unit for about a year...so far, so good. I don't have a return line. It has one unique feature I've not seen on other units, it has an easily adjustable thermostat to turn the pump off and an easily integrated timer. Now, because the pump turns on and off, it may wear out sooner, but it is quiet in operation, self-contained, and a snap to install (assuming you have power nearby).
 

JK60

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I did a search on this topic and ran into a thread discussing a "point of use heater" such as the Ariston GL2.5 or GL4 which basically is just a water heater that will adequately supply a single sink with hot water - exactly my situation. It is cheaper then the Laing Hot Water System and just as easy to install. Any drawbacks to this approach relative to the Laing? Any recommendations?

Thank you,

Jerry
 

Gary Swart

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Try the well know internet auction site for the Laing. They often are list there and they sell for much less than retail. They are new, in the box units.
 

hj

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hot water

The point of use heaters give you 2 gallons of hot water at that faucet, and no more. Then you are back where you started. The Laing and Grudfos systems also produce hot water at any faucets between the pump and the water heater.
 

Bob NH

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Point of Use +

The point of use heaters such as the Ariston immediately give you what they store, BUT, if you supply them with hot water from your main water heater, they will be resupplied before they run out. Fifty feet of 1/2" copper contains about 0.65 gallon of water, so the water directly from your main heater will arrive by the time you have used 1/4 of the water in GL2.5.

The cooler water in the line will mix with the hot water in the heater, and the outlet water will be hot enough for use.

The advantage of a point of use heater is that you will have less heat loss than a circulating system, and by feeding it with your main hot water heater the supply is limited only by your main water heater. One point of use heater in a bathroom will do a shower and sink if it is supplied by the main heater. If the shower doesn't have a temperature controlled valve you might want to use the GL4 to minimize temperature variations; otherwise use the GL2.5.

If your main hot water heater is gas-fired, you will get hot makeup water at the more economical gas heating cost.

The small point of use heaters operate on 15 amp 115 Volt circuits so are much easier to install than the instant electric types.
 

Gary Swart

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Bob's reply is correct, but you must remember that the point of use heater is exactly that...point of use. It will do nothing for the rest of the house. :)
 

hj

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pou heater

The point of use heater is going to refill with the cold water in the pipe and that will cool down the water in the heater. So if you are depending on it for a shower, and it would take some piping revisions if it could be done at all in that particular house, for a period your temperature will still drop until the hot water arrives and fills the tank and then continues to the shower valve.
 

Bob NH

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Temperature will drop, but not much.

If you use a 4 gallon POU heater as I suggested for a shower without temperature control, set at 130 degrees, with water in the pipe at about 70 degrees, the effect is as follows:

The first 0.65 gallon of water is replaced by the 70 degree water in the pipe. The resultant mixed water temperature will be a bit more than 120 degrees. After that, the temperature will approach the temperature of your main hot water supply.

If you want hotter water in the first 30 seconds, you can increase the setting on the heater.
 

JK60

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Thanks to all of you for the valuable information provided. I just have two more question. There are two types of auto circ systems available. One where everything is installed next to the sink, (Laing, Redytemp) and a different one where the valve is installed at the sink and the pump at the water heater (Laing, Grundfos). Is one approach as effective as the other? Any recommendations as to which one is better? I realize that the second system requires more installation work but on the plus side I would think that if there are any noise issues involved, such as possible water hammering, at least with this system the noise will be restricted to the basement. There are also possibly better price breaks on the second system which makes it attractive.
 

Jadnashua

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The Redi-temp is quiet enough such that I don't notice it running unless maybe while contemplating my navel on the throne...it is not audible in either bedroom or the hallway. Those units that are installed say under the vanity need a/c power, I placed an outlet inside the vanity to accomodate it when I remodeled. I looked at the Taco system and a couple of others...this one probably was more expensive, but it was literally installed in about 5-minutes. The front panel thermostat lets me adjust the turn-off point so that there is not much hot wat at all in the cold water supply line (I don't have a dedicated return line, if I did, this would not be a major factor). By getting the water just warm at the vanity, it takes about 10-seconds to get it hot at the shower, and the stuff downstairs is hot while the timer has the thing turned on. So far (about 2-years) I'm happy with the unit. I'm sure others work well, too. By having separate pieces, you can more easily replace that component when it eventually dies, which should be a consideration, too.
 

JK60

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In looking at two of the recirculation systems where the pump mounts next to the water heater (Laing, Grundfos), I've noticed that the Grundfos valve is made out of plastic, whereas the Laing valve appears to be made out of metal. The Grundfos system can be purchased cheaper then the Laing but the use of a plastic valve concerns me. Is my concern realistic or is a plastic valve in this application as good as a metal one?


Thank you,
 

Gary Swart

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I have no knowledge of the Grundfos other than it is a fairly well known brand. I have a Laing however, and I can assure you it is very well made and works quite well.
 

JK60

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jadnashua said:
I've been using a redi-temp unit for about a year...

Jim - Just thought you'd be interested in this. Looks like you bought the Redytemp unit at a good time. I checked it out a few days ago and it looked good but at $339 + shipping and tax in CA the price was $380 which I thought was pretty high. Imagine my surprise when I went back to their website yesterday and saw that the price all of a sudden went up to $425 (free shipping) + tax for a total of $457. That's more then twice the price of Grundfos and Laing systems.
 
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JK60

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I ended up ordering the Grundfos comfort system. It was a hard choice between Grundfos and Laing. Both have good reputations, but I was able to get the Grundfos for a much better price then the Laing. Probably will install it this week.

I would like to thank everyone again for the valuable information you've provided me!!!

Jerry
 
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