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hollywoodgirl
01-07-2013, 08:32 PM
There have been sporadic lazy flushes in the past which resolved themselves. Not tonight.

We have hard water but the Soiree doesn't have holes in the rim, there are two powerful nozzles.

I tried a dishpan full of hot water and that went down slowly. So.

What do you think?

wjcandee
01-07-2013, 08:40 PM
There have been sporadic lazy flushes in the past which resolved themselves. Not tonight.

I tried a dishpan full of hot water and that went down slowly. So.

What do you think?

I'm assuming I understand what a lazy flush is...it swirls around and instead of siphoning right down, it kind of wallows its way to the bottom of the bowl (but it does go). Is that it?

Assuming that your fixtures downstream of this toilet are draining properly and thus there isn't some kind of systemic backup, I would try flushing it a few times by holding the handle down to drain the whole tank and see how it performs. Sometimes, the lazy flush occurs because it isn't starting with enough water. If that doesn't work, I would hit it with a plunger. Good rapid vigorous strokes. Could be there's a partial clog somewhere in there. If the plunger doesn't work, then a closet auger. If the problem doesn't resolve itself with one of these methods, report that back and see what The Gang thinks.

What I'm recommending isn't necessarily the optimal solution, it's just basic Chicken Soup...can't hurt.

One other thought is: does the toilet seem to be dropping as much water as usual through the flush valve? I get a lazy flush occasionally off what I call a "misfire". This occurs when for whatever reason the flapper doesn't cycle all the way open and shuts faster than usual. Usually occurs if I don't push the handle all the way down before releasing. The bowl gets a little water in it, the tank starts refilling, but there isn't enough water through the valve to do a regular flush, just a slow siphon to the bottom.

hollywoodgirl
01-07-2013, 09:01 PM
Originally Posted by wjcandee
I'm assuming I understand what a lazy flush is...it swirls around and instead of siphoning right down, it kind of wallows its way to the bottom of the bowl (but it does go). Is that it? Yes

Assuming that your fixtures downstream of this toilet are draining properly and thus there isn't some kind of systemic backup, I would try flushing it a few times by holding the handle down to drain the whole tank and see how it performs. Sometimes, the lazy flush occurs because it isn't starting with enough water. If that doesn't work, I would hit it with a plunger. Good rapid vigorous strokes. Could be there's a partial clog somewhere in there. If the plunger doesn't work, then a closet auger. If the problem doesn't resolve itself with one of these methods, report that back and see what The Gang thinks. The tank drains completely but the water enters the bowl and s l o w l y drains and then it bubbles

What I'm recommending isn't necessarily the optimal solution, it's just basic Chicken Soup...can't hurt.

One other thought is: does the toilet seem to be dropping as much water as usual through the flush valve? I get a lazy flush occasionally off what I call a "misfire". This occurs when for whatever reason the flapper doesn't cycle all the way open and shuts faster than usual. Usually occurs if I don't push the handle all the way down before releasing. The bowl gets a little water in it, the tank starts refilling, but there isn't enough water through the valve to do a regular flush, just a slow siphon to the bottom. It's not doing this. Thank you for your time.

hollywoodgirl
01-07-2013, 09:02 PM
Originally Posted by wjcandee
I'm assuming I understand what a lazy flush is...it swirls around and instead of siphoning right down, it kind of wallows its way to the bottom of the bowl (but it does go). Is that it? Yes

Assuming that your fixtures downstream of this toilet are draining properly and thus there isn't some kind of systemic backup, I would try flushing it a few times by holding the handle down to drain the whole tank and see how it performs. Sometimes, the lazy flush occurs because it isn't starting with enough water. If that doesn't work, I would hit it with a plunger. Good rapid vigorous strokes. Could be there's a partial clog somewhere in there. If the plunger doesn't work, then a closet auger. If the problem doesn't resolve itself with one of these methods, report that back and see what The Gang thinks. The tank drains completely but the water enters the bowl and s l o w l y drains and then it bubbles

What I'm recommending isn't necessarily the optimal solution, it's just basic Chicken Soup...can't hurt.

One other thought is: does the toilet seem to be dropping as much water as usual through the flush valve? I get a lazy flush occasionally off what I call a "misfire". This occurs when for whatever reason the flapper doesn't cycle all the way open and shuts faster than usual. Usually occurs if I don't push the handle all the way down before releasing. The bowl gets a little water in it, the tank starts refilling, but there isn't enough water through the valve to do a regular flush, just a slow siphon to the bottom. It's not doing this. Thank you for your time.

PS No plunger or auger in the house, I'll call Rapid Rooter in the morning.

wjcandee
01-07-2013, 09:31 PM
We generally recommend against anything with the name "rooter" in it. You're better off with a plain ol' experienced, trusted plumber. Unfortunately, Terry isn't in your area.

hollywoodgirl
01-07-2013, 09:37 PM
We generally recommend against anything with the name "rooter" in it. You're better off with a plain ol' experienced, trusted plumber. Unfortunately, Terry isn't in your area.

I'll call the plumber who installed the toilet. Thank you.

Terry
01-07-2013, 09:51 PM
I would take a bucket or large cooking pot of water and pour it directly into the bowl. Sometimes that's all it takes.
Not hot water. You don't want to melt the wax.

You bowl is an easy fix. You can lift the bowl up, and the trapway is divided into two parts. Upper and lower.

http://www.terrylove.com/wc/toto/flange_03.jpg

hollywoodgirl
01-07-2013, 09:58 PM
I would take a bucket or large cooking pot of water and pour it directly into the bowl. Sometimes that's all it takes.

I just tried half a dozen times with a dish basin full of hottest water. It's not making a difference. Still slowly drains away
and then burbles :). Thank you.

wjcandee
01-07-2013, 10:32 PM
I would take a bucket or large cooking pot of water and pour it directly into the bowl. Sometimes that's all it takes.

So true, but her first post said that she tried that already, to no avail...

Gary Swart
01-07-2013, 11:13 PM
There is probably a foreign object wedged in the trap. Small children often try flushing toys, other items like toothbrushes, combs, makeup cases, and the list goes on are often found. The won't wash out. A closet auger may work, but sometimes one has to pull the toilet and go from the bottom.

hollywoodgirl
01-07-2013, 11:37 PM
There is probably a foreign object wedged in the trap. Small children often try flushing toys, other items like toothbrushes, combs, makeup cases, and the list goes on are often found. The won't wash out. A closet auger may work, but sometimes one has to pull the toilet and go from the bottom.

I'll post the resolution. Hope it's quick and easy. Thank you.

wjcandee
01-08-2013, 12:32 AM
I'll post the resolution. Hope it's quick and easy. Thank you.

Fun working with you. I look forward to learning what your plumber determines to be the problem.

hollywoodgirl
01-08-2013, 05:43 AM
UPDATE: the plumber can't come until tomorrow, Wed Jan 9 between 10am and 1pm.

hollywoodgirl
01-08-2013, 12:32 PM
FINAL UPDATE: the plumber who installed the Toto Soiree came a day early, he owns the company. He and his assistant spent an hour augering the toilet and siphon jets. Success. He said there could be trouble further into the line, the house went up in '68 and then I'll need to call a drain cleaning service. He recommended someone. Sound about right, gentlemen?

jadnashua
01-08-2013, 02:12 PM
If you have a partial blockage on the main line, the toilet won't flush when there's no place for the waste to go. Overnight, it might drain down, and the first couple of flushes might work right. But, take a shower, or two, and if there's a blockage, it could back up enough to then prevent the toilet from flushing.

hollywoodgirl
01-08-2013, 03:19 PM
If you have a partial blockage on the main line, the toilet won't flush when there's no place for the waste to go. Overnight, it might drain down, and the first couple of flushes might work right. But, take a shower, or two, and if there's a blockage, it could back up enough to then prevent the toilet from flushing.

I'll keep this in mind and if it happens, I'll call the drain cleaning company referred to me by the plumber. Thank you.

wjcandee
01-08-2013, 04:46 PM
Glad to see you are back in business.

Hopefully, the auger did the job. I'm a little suprised that he didn't just unbolt the toilet, pull it up and check the trap manually.

Terry has some great photos on here of things like the GI Joe he found wedged in the outflow hole at the bottom of the toilet on one job, so pulling the toilet is an easy (for him) and useful thing to do if the clog source isn't obvious.

If you end up needing a drain cleaner and if you strike out with or don't like the drain cleaning company your plumber recommends, our member MacPlumb often has good recommendations of drain cleaning pros in different areas, as he is a master plumber with expertise in that business. With regard to our own thoroughly-clogged driveway drain and rainwater drainage system, I reached out to him for a recommendation in New York after the first two "drain cleaning" companies told me that they couldn't open the drain and that I should have a contractor come in with a backhoe and repipe the system at a cost north of $5000. MacPlumb's guy used a water jet system to clear the pipes from the driveway drain some fifty feet to a cistern that nobody believed was connected to that drain (1900s house). He did this at a cost of about $450, and then, for good measure, cleaned the overflow pipe from that cistern to a french drain some distance away. I couldn't have been happier, particularly because I much prefer to maintain/repair the robust old system rather than replace it. Needless to say, I have recommended him to anyone that even hints that they need a service like this, and they have been universally-happy. Sorry I haven't seen anyone mentioned in Massachusetts, but I'm sure we can hook that up if it comes to it. Which hopefully it won't.

hollywoodgirl
01-08-2013, 06:19 PM
Glad to see you are back in business.

Hopefully, the auger did the job. I'm a little suprised that he didn't just unbolt the toilet, pull it up and check the trap manually.
I'm not, it was easier not to :(
Terry has some great photos on here of things like the GI Joe he found wedged in the outflow hole at the bottom of the toilet on one job, so pulling the toilet is an easy (for him) and useful thing to do if the clog source isn't obvious.

If you end up needing a drain cleaner and if you strike out with or don't like the drain cleaning company your plumber recommends, our member MacPlumb often has good recommendations of drain cleaning pros in different areas, as he is a master plumber with expertise in that business. With regard to our own thoroughly-clogged driveway drain and rainwater drainage system, I reached out to him for a recommendation in New York after the first two "drain cleaning" companies told me that they couldn't open the drain and that I should have a contractor come in with a backhoe and repipe the system at a cost north of $5000. MacPlumb's guy used a water jet system to clear the pipes from the driveway drain some fifty feet to a cistern that nobody believed was connected to that drain (1900s house). He did this at a cost of about $450, and then, for good measure, cleaned the overflow pipe from that cistern to a french drain some distance away. I couldn't have been happier, particularly because I much prefer to maintain/repair the robust old system rather than replace it. Needless to say, I have recommended him to anyone that even hints that they need a service like this, and they have been universally-happy. Sorry I haven't seen anyone mentioned in Massachusetts, but I'm sure we can hook that up if it comes to it. Which hopefully it won't.I may just take you up on that, thank you.

lennym
09-06-2013, 08:31 AM
I'm also having a lazy flush on a three year old Soiree. Problem appeared about three months ago and is sporadic. After reading this thread I dumped 3.5 gallons of water in VERY quickly and it went down just as quickly as I could dump it in (and so quickly that it left the water level low in the bowl). So it doesn't look like a blockage problem. It has always appeared to be a problem of not enough water coming down.

Then I called Toto and was told to make certain that the tank water level was within 1/4" of the top of the overflow tube. I adjusted the fill valve for its maximum height and that is just about at 1/4" from the top of the tube. But the lazy flush still pops up now and then, though I try to press the lever the same every time.

Must be something wrong with the flapper, which is original. Any further suggestions?

If I were to replace the flapper with a 3rd party one, should I keep the floating plastic stuff above the flapper in place?

Thanks.

jadnashua
09-06-2013, 01:19 PM
If there's too much slack in the chain holding the flapper, it doesn't go up far enough, and will close early. There should be just enough slack in the chain so that the flapper can reseat itself, and very little before you start lifting it when using the flush handle. The float could have become waterlogged and is no longer doing its job. Many of the newer ones do not use a float.

lennym
09-07-2013, 07:21 AM
Thanks for the suggestion. I've had a look at the chain. While there's some slack, there's no question but the lever lifts the flapper to the max. It does not seem like there's water in the float. I have now changed the hole into which the chain attaches on the brass lever rod to the last one. Gives it a very slightly different angle and maybe lifts the flap a bit more. We'll see.

Does the current Soiree use a float? If not, what? I think I've read on this forum that there are some 3rd party flappers that permit adjustment of the amount of water drop. Time to replace? Any suggestions? Thanks.

wjcandee
09-07-2013, 07:32 AM
The Korky 3060BP is an adjustable 3" flapper that would fit your Soiree. Korky is who we recommend on here. It doesn't have or need a float. The new Toto flappers don't use a float.

lennym
09-23-2013, 08:50 AM
Yes, after all it was the flapper. So I had to buy a new one, and this will be my 3rd in about 3 years. IIRC Toto sent a new one for the first replacement, but not for this one. Following up on the suggestion in another thread, since putting in the second flapper I'm using two rubber washers to center it. I can't figure out why the little arms that hold the flappers are so obviously oversized.

Anyway I got an adjustable Korky, without the float, and find that it is best at the lowest number (1). The flush can be fine tuned to a small extent using the water level. So three flappers in 3 years, and the need for centering washers. Not a good record for an expensive toilet!

Just for the record, I also have an 8 year old Toto Carrollton with the original blue flapper that has never had to be changed. Go figure.