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View Full Version : Whatís your opinion of the build quality of this Mansfield Summit 3? -PICS-



stephenk
11-20-2012, 10:08 PM
I know some people here don’t say a lot of nice things about Mansfield, but most of the complaints I’ve read are about the builder-grade Alto toilets. I’m moving into a new home in a couple weeks and I will be replacing two toilets. One of the models I’ve been considering is the Mansfield Summit 3 (http://www.mansfieldplumbing.com/Product-Catalog/Toilets/Two-Piece-Toilets/Summit-3-%281%29.aspx). This model is a 1.6 gpf unit that's made in the USA. A local big box store was running a sale on the ADA elongated bowl for $149 + tax (regularly $179). It includes a seat and hardware. I picked it up since the sale ends tomorrow. I’ll have a couple weeks to decide if I want to keep it and install it or box it back up and return it.

I don’t have access to any other toilets like the Toto Eco Drake (one of my other top choices) to compare the build quality to this Mansfield unit.

So, how does the build quality on this look, considering the price? Does anyone have pics of other brands to compare?

Because of forum rules on the number of linked images in a post, I'll have to break this into multiple posts.

Bowl
You can see one small pock mark in the glaze on the back and a small nub, but I don’t know if the nub is supposed to be there or not. It may be normal and leftover form manufacturing.
http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z394/stephen9666/Forum%20Pics/Toilet%20Mansfield%20Summit%203%20pics/a.jpg
http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z394/stephen9666/Forum%20Pics/Toilet%20Mansfield%20Summit%203%20pics/b.jpg
http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z394/stephen9666/Forum%20Pics/Toilet%20Mansfield%20Summit%203%20pics/e.jpg
http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z394/stephen9666/Forum%20Pics/Toilet%20Mansfield%20Summit%203%20pics/i.jpg

stephenk
11-20-2012, 10:09 PM
This is a closeup of the passage that carries the water from the tank to the bowl. I donít know the correct term for it.
http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z394/stephen9666/Forum%20Pics/Toilet%20Mansfield%20Summit%203%20pics/f.jpg

Closeup of the transition from the bowl to the trapway.
http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z394/stephen9666/Forum%20Pics/Toilet%20Mansfield%20Summit%203%20pics/g.jpg

stephenk
11-20-2012, 10:10 PM
Here are some closeups of the outlet on the bottom of the bowl and inside the trapway.
http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z394/stephen9666/Forum%20Pics/Toilet%20Mansfield%20Summit%203%20pics/j.jpg
http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z394/stephen9666/Forum%20Pics/Toilet%20Mansfield%20Summit%203%20pics/k.jpg
http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z394/stephen9666/Forum%20Pics/Toilet%20Mansfield%20Summit%203%20pics/l.jpg

stephenk
11-20-2012, 10:12 PM
Tank
The back of the tank isnít glazed very well, but Iíve read thatís pretty normal on toilets, since that part isnít seen once itís installed.
http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z394/stephen9666/Forum%20Pics/Toilet%20Mansfield%20Summit%203%20pics/n.jpg
http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z394/stephen9666/Forum%20Pics/Toilet%20Mansfield%20Summit%203%20pics/o.jpg
http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z394/stephen9666/Forum%20Pics/Toilet%20Mansfield%20Summit%203%20pics/p.jpg
http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z394/stephen9666/Forum%20Pics/Toilet%20Mansfield%20Summit%203%20pics/q.jpg

jadnashua
11-21-2012, 08:11 AM
The thing I look at is the shape and path of the drain in the toilet...see how yours tries to make the waste make a sharp right-angle bend to go down the drain? That does two things...slows things down, and if you happen to deposit long or hard logs, they can get caught there.

The back of the toilet tank is somewhat irrelevant for most installs. You can tell it is a builder's grade toilet as they didn't take much time to finish it nicely. Now, will you notice it while in use, maybe not unless it clogs.

Terry
11-21-2012, 09:09 AM
In that price range, a Kohler Wellworth would have looked better.

And TOTO would definitely look better! But then you didn't pay much, and that's a factor.

stephenk
11-21-2012, 10:52 AM
The thing I look at is the shape and path of the drain in the toilet...see how yours tries to make the waste make a sharp right-angle bend to go down the drain? That does two things...slows things down, and if you happen to deposit long or hard logs, they can get caught there.

I did notice that. It seems like the actual bends inside the trapway may be smoother curves than it looks like from the outside. They don't seem to be sharp turns when I look inside. But that's just based on the small amount I can see/feel.

I was also a little surprised to see those sharp turns on the outside of the trapway, because the schematic on the box and on the Mansfield website shows the trapway appearing differently.
http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z394/stephen9666/Forum%20Pics/Toilet%20Mansfield%20Summit%203%20pics/d.jpg
http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z394/stephen9666/Forum%20Pics/Toilet%20Mansfield%20Summit%203%20pics/c.jpg



In that price range, a Kohler would have looked better.

And TOTO would definitely look better! But then you didn't pay much, and that's a factor.

Thanks for the response. The problem is I can't really see a Toto in person. I can see the Kohlers in person, but without opening a box I can't see things like the inside of the trapway.

It doesn't seem people post too many close-up pics of inside the trapway or other areas to compare, they often just post an overall picture from a medium distance.

Gary Swart
11-21-2012, 11:09 AM
I find it impossible to believe that in the entire area of KC you can't find a Toto.

stephenk
11-21-2012, 11:19 AM
I find it impossible to believe that in the entire area of KC you can't find a Toto.

I'm not in Kansas City, I'm in a town about an hour outside of KC that doesn't have a Toto dealer. There are some Toto dealers in towns that aren't too far away, but they're plumbing supply stores that don't seem to have showrooms. I could ask them to bring one out to look at, I suppose. But I don't know how keen they would be on letting me rip open a box and look at one up close.




The back of the toilet tank is somewhat irrelevant for most installs. You can tell it is a builder's grade toilet as they didn't take much time to finish it nicely. Now, will you notice it while in use, maybe not unless it clogs.

Here's thread showing an unglazed rear of an Eco Drake. People posting there indicate it's normal. You can tell the glaze on this Mansfield appears to be applied a little more sloppily.

http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?27833-Toto-Eco-Drake-finish-quality-not-as-expected

Terry
11-21-2012, 05:32 PM
I think you should stick with the Mansfield.

I'm normally throwing them away. Swing by and I can load your van up.
That would save me a bunch on dump fees.

wjcandee
11-21-2012, 06:05 PM
Meeeow!

Actually, the guy did say that he knew you were pulling out a lot of the Altos, but wondered if this allegedly-higher-grade Mansfield was any good. I think he got the answer.

SK: I think some of these photos sort of answer your own question. The Toto castings do have some non-functional, non-visible areas that aren't perfectly-glazed or perfectly-smooth sometimes (i.e. right at the outflow horn), but mine definitely looked a lot better than this. And certainly so on the visible and functional areas.

I also think that the trapway design and functionality is going to be better on the Toto, for not a lot much more money if you were to get say a regular Drake on sale. Oddly, the actual toilet they gave you really doesn't match the drawing, not that it's that important. What's in the box is what's important.

Gary Swart
11-21-2012, 06:15 PM
FWIW, I live 140 miles and one mountain range from my Toto dealer, and I wouldn't consider anything but a Toto. I have 2 and they are awesome.

stephenk
11-21-2012, 10:03 PM
I'm normally throwing them away. Swing by and I can load your van up.
That would save me a bunch on dump fees.

I definitely appreciate hearing your opinion, but to be fair, are any of those you're throwing away the Summit 3 models or are they the cheaper Alto models? I've read some of the things you and others have posted about the Altos, and they don't sound too good.

Gary Swart
11-21-2012, 11:52 PM
You seem to be looking for some one to endorse the Mansfield Summit 3. Well, it isn't likely to happen on this forum at least. Most of us are pretty well sold on the Toto line. But, it's your money and your choice. Perhaps you'll be happy with the Summit 3. And yes, Terry does haul a lot of Mansfield as well as other brands to the dump.

stephenk
11-22-2012, 01:05 AM
You seem to be looking for some one to endorse the Mansfield Summit 3. Well, it isn't likely to happen on this forum at least.

Well, I was more looking for someone to either endorse it or condemn it based on actual experience with this model, but it seems more that people here have no experience with this specific model, good or bad. I guess that in itself could be an anti-endorsement. And, a couple members did raise good points in this thread about it.

Here's one thread I found where a member here likes this specific model, but it's really the only thread I could find about the Summit 3:
http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?38671-Mansfield-Summit-3

I guess I'll just think about it some more before I decide whether to return it or install it. We take possession of our new house next week, so that's when the work will really start.

Anyway, happy Thanksgiving to anyone reading this thread. I'll be contemplating toilet purchases while sitting at the dinner table tonight.

Terry
11-22-2012, 10:55 AM
The Summit 3 is an offshoot of the Maverick and owes its utility to the flattery it gives the Drake employing the 3" flapper and the 2-1/8" glazed trapway.

The pictures posted here don't look "anything" like the Maverick trapway. The Maverick would be a much better choice then the Summit.

http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z394/stephen9666/Forum%20Pics/Toilet%20Mansfield%20Summit%203%20pics/a.jpg
Summit bowl

The Maverick bowl has a trapway similar to the Drake, but not the Summit.

Below is the Maverick bowl which uses the low dip in the trapway to create more siphon, and points the waste down the drain at the last bend.

These two bowls are totally different.

wjcandee
11-22-2012, 01:04 PM
But since the Maverick's street price is actually equal to or higher than the price of a Drake that it copied, why would anybody buy a Maverick?

It looks like they used a drawing of the Maverick on the Summit box, whereas, like I said in an earlier post, it doesn't look like the thing IN the box looks anything like what's drawn on the outside of the box.

To the original poster: I am here to tell you that the Drake, CST744S, if you get it in the $225-ish range, is going to seem to you to be a much, much better toilet than the one you bought, and well worth the extra money. I can say this without knowing anything about you other than that you really seem to analyze and pay attention to things. A person with that characteristic alone is likely to appreciate the Drake even more than the guy who just puts it in and is pleased with the flush.

stephenk
11-22-2012, 01:24 PM
Well, you've all won. If the trap design on the Summit 3 was the same as it's shown on the box and on their website, I'd keep it and install it. That's actually one of the things that made me choose this model. The schematic on the website showed it having a similar trapway design to some of the popular Toto toilets. I was surprised when I opened the box that it wasn't the same as pictured. I'll probably box it back up and return it.

I wanted to like this toilet because it's made in the USA, and buying USA made products and employing US workers is very important to me. I know Toto also makes toilets in the US, but as far as I can tell the Drake and Eco Drake (my two top choices) come from various different countries, so it will be a crap shoot as to whether I'd get USA made, Vietnam, Mexico, China, etc. :(


But since the Maverick's street price is actually equal to or higher than the price of a Drake that it copied, why would anybody buy a Maverick?

The local big box store I bought this Summit from has a maverick on display for $139, which is cheaper than a Drake, at least from the research I've done. That's just one example of a street price, though. But, the Maverick isn't on my list at the moment, I just took a look at it when I was in the store.

wjcandee
11-22-2012, 01:39 PM
Are you sure that's not just the Maverick bowl? I've seen where they sell the bowl separately, and you use whatever spec Mansfield tank (i.e. 3" flush valve) fits on it. Could be wrong, though.

Shop around and don't be afraid to hondle about the price. There's a lot of flexibility and variation in price, as your research should show.

If you do want the USA version, and you visit or contact a stocking plumbing supply, ask them if they have any of those USA-made tanks and bowls. They can take the five minutes to look. If not, don't worry if the tank and bowl come from different places; mine did and fit perfectly (e.g. USA-made tank, Thailand bowl, or whatever).

stephenk
11-22-2012, 01:50 PM
Are you sure that's not just the Maverick bowl? I've seen where they sell the bowl separately, and you use whatever spec Mansfield tank (i.e. 3" flush valve) fits on it. Could be wrong, though.

That price was for a complete toilet. I looked at it up close, as it was set up on display. But, I'm probably not interested in that model. I just looked at it while I was there.

Gary Swart
11-22-2012, 01:52 PM
Why didn't you get their $99 Toilet-In-A-Box? You seem to be shopping for cheap instead of quality.

stephenk
11-22-2012, 02:05 PM
Why didn't you get their $99 Toilet-In-A-Box? You seem to be shopping for cheap instead of quality.

:confused:

If you look a couple posts up you'll see my other two top choices are a Drake and Eco Drake. I think you may have misread some of the posts in this thread.

As I said, I wanted to try this Summit because it was USA made, but you all have convinced me to return it. I'm not looking for cheap, as the Summit actually wasn't that cheap. As you point out, I could have bought a $99 special and I didn't.

wjcandee
11-22-2012, 02:36 PM
SK: I think the other cult members will stop heckling you now that you have officially pledged allegiance and come Into The Fold. Having once been the victim of Good Marketing Of Bad Toilets, I can follow your logic. "Hey, on the box this looks like the same trapway as the other more expensive toilet, and it's made in the US!" Totally logical. Like my logic in buying a beautiful-but-horrible Kohler that matched the beautiful bathroom sink we installed. I subsequently hit it with a sledge and installed a Drake, but it took years because I figured if Kohler couldn't make a good 1.6gpf toilet, nobody could. The boys here set me straight.

We do have your best interests at heart. It's just a little Tough Love. I appreciate your dignified responses.

And I know you will love your purchase. Let us know the unvarnished truth of what you think. It's always helpful.

stephenk
11-22-2012, 02:49 PM
Thanks for the kind words. I assumed people here would be interested in seeing close-up pics and sharing their opinion on models they may not have seen first hand, but the responses have been harsher than I expected.

I'm leaning towards the Eco Drake, as my girlfriend likes the idea of saving a little more water.

I guess the next step will be choosing a retailer. I don't know if I would get in trouble for posting links to online sellers, but there are several I've been looking at. I'll have to call the plumbing shops in nearby towns and see what they want for them, too.

Terry
11-22-2012, 03:03 PM
I assumed people here would be interested in seeing close up pics and sharing their opinion on models they may not have seen first hand

I liked the pictures. I was surprised to see the bowl being different then the pictures on the box.
When I worked for a large plumbing company, we installed a lot of Norris and Mansfield. It wasn't until I discovered something better that I thought much about it. It was what everybody installed. I found plenty of plumbers that had been installing the brand for 30 years, mainly out of habit.
Thanks for the pictures!