View Full Version : Are there two versions of the Toto Soiree?
11-13-2012, 07:19 PM
I'm looking at two Toto Soiree toilets that appear identical except one has the red flapper with a black weight and inside the tank is a stamp that says 1.28gpf. The other has a pink flapper with no weight and doesn't have the 1.28gpf stamp.
Is there a difference between the two toilets? Is one older than the other? Is one flapper system better than the other? I'm guessing that the more likely answer is that these things are put together like a Dell computer, with whichever parts are available at the time.
(Our first Toto Soiree was delivered last week with a big chunk of the skirt broken off. While we were waiting for the replacement, I decided to glue the piece back on and install the toilet. I just want to make sure that the replacement toilet isn't an older/inferior model or something. It looks like we're going to end up with an extra toilet.)
11-13-2012, 07:39 PM
The toilet comes (came?) in 1.6g and 1.28g versions. Performance is about the same. A bunch of the difference is in the refill calibration, the 1.28g version is more precise so less gets dumped down the drain (most toilets overfill the bowl some). Don't know if the prices are different, but if the two are different, when it comes time to replace say the flapper, if you don't use the right one, performance may suffer or you'll end up using more water than it was designed for.
11-13-2012, 10:04 PM
The toilet only comes in a 1.28 version now. MS964214CEFG. It used to come in a 1.6: MS964214CFG. The "E" is for "Eco" or 1.28.
Do both have a green-colored fill valve? If so, they're both 1.28gpf and both the current version.
They took the float off the flapper that they're using now. The one without the float might be the newer one. Normally, I would say that they might just have come from a different factory, but I think the Soirees sold here are all made here.
The function of the flapper is to open, let the tank water fall to a certain level, and close...and not leak. If it does that, regardless of what it looks like, one isn't probably better than the other.
That said, one design might be more susceptible to chlorine and might last longer than the other. When the flapper wears out in a few years, get the appropriate Korky replacement flapper, and you'll be all set.
With a top-ish-of-the-line Soiree, it isn't put together with whatever parts are available; Toto is constantly refining its parts and sourcing, the Japanese concept of Kaizen. That said, some of the "improvements" at various times in these parts were less-successful than others, but they then corrected that. No fiascos like the exploding Flushmates or leaky American Standard tower flush valves.
11-13-2012, 11:27 PM
Thanks for the replies. Both of the toilets are CEFG models and they both have green fill valves. I'm not too concerned about getting the latest rubber flapper but I was concerned that there might be some other differences in the body of an older model.
After crudely repairing the skirt of the cracked toilet and installing it, I was surprised to hear groans coming from our expensive new toilet and even more surprised that I could fix it by merely limiting the horizontal movement of the flapper. I guess I was expecting our expensive new toilet to have some elaborate high-tech valve and flapper assembly. But, my brother reminded me that these things always do wear out eventually and that I really didn't want to be limited to some rare proprietary replacement parts.
Now, we just have to decide whether to keep the repaired toilet (the crack isn't visible in our tight bathroom) or replace it with the new one. In any case, after 25 years of living with a 50 year old toilet, we're pretty excited to have a decent toilet.
Edit: I just found a post on Gardenweb that says the only difference between the 1.28 and 1.6 toilets is the time it takes the flapper to close; the flapper with the holes closing faster than a solid flapper would. That seems to confirm the idea that the body of both of our toilets are essentially the same.
11-14-2012, 10:04 AM
TOTO has several different 1.28 flapper designs.
If the toilet is marked CEFG, the E means 1.28
It has been years since I've had a 1.6 Soiree.
11-14-2012, 10:32 AM
Thanks Terry. My first inclination was to try to convert my 1.28 to a 1.6 by altering the flapper. But, the toilet seems to work perfectly as a 1.28gpf so I'm not going to change it.
I have a choice of either of the two flapper assemblies. Is one better than the other? With our cracked and then repaired toilet working fine (only the skirt was cracked). We're still trying to decide whether to sell the new toilet or give away the repaired toilet, or junk the repaired toilet and save the parts for later. I repaired the broken toilet with construction foam and JB Weld and it seems to be okay. But, if the hairline cracks are just going to get worse in a year or two, I'd rather bite the bullet now and avoid having our wood floors flooded. Any advice you can give me?