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Reader Review
01-02-2006, 03:15 PM
http://terrylove.com/wc/kohler/cimarron.jpg
Kohler Cimarron, Made in Mexico

I bought and installed a Kohler Cimarron toilet about a month ago. The spec sheet calls for the tank to be 3/4" off the wall with a 12 inch offset. My tank is about 2 1/4" offthe wall with the 12 inch offset. I guess we ill live with it. Walls are plumb so that is not an issue. Toilet flushs good but does not clean well at all. This seems to be a complaint of other buyers as well. As Karen H states in her comment, we now keep the toilet brush handy.
Mon, 19 Dec 2005
Frank

Video of the Kohler Class Five Flush (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd6oWtzGapA)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd6oWtzGapA
Grading the best toilets, the ones that work! (http://www.terrylove.com/crtoilet.htm)

Reader Review
01-02-2006, 03:16 PM
http://www.terrylove.com/wc/kohler/cimarron_inside_tank.jpg

I am on my third Kohler Cimarron Comfort Height toilet. We decided to replace an old American Standard that was in my son's bathroom and was clogging every week. My plumber recommended the Kohler Cimarron. The first one he put in was the round seat. 2 hrs after it was installed it clogged! My son was able to plunge it. We called the plumber who was shocked. The next day my husband tried the toilet, not only did it clog it flooded the bathroom! We were not able to un clog it.The next morning we saw that the flood had caused our kitchen ceiling to buckle! The plumber had to come and snake the toilet.We decided that we had a dud. The plumber could not replace it until the Kohler rep got back to him which took a week. Well we then got toilet # 2( same toilet).
We decided not to fix the ceiling until we were sure that the toilet worked. Well it was good for a week and then yup another un-plungable clog! Plummer came back snaked again and this time we got an upgrade - the elongated bowl. Kohler decided that the whole batch at the plumbing supply store must have been bad. Still not fixing the ceiling yet. Well # 3 is going on a week and a half and tonight - yup you guessed it - clogs again! We were able to plunge it.
I am at wits end - I don't know what to do. This toilet was sold as one I would never have to plunge.
I am calling the plumber back tomorrow but I don't know what to do. Do I ask for a better model? If so which one? Have you ever heard of anything like this?

Thanks for your time.
Sun, 18 Dec 2005
Susan H

bmfc1
01-12-2006, 07:30 PM
http://www.terrylove.com/wc/kohler/cimarron_top.jpg

This toilet is a piece of crap! No pun intended! We bought this and ended up having it replaced 3 times! FInally said no more and put in a Toto.
I will never ever buy anything Kohler again.

Ol Fart
01-19-2006, 09:59 AM
http://www.terrylove.com/wc/kohler/cimiarron_tank_connects.jpg

...piece of crap?
I disagree.
I installed one (elongated version) in Nov. in the bathroom my 2 teenage boys share. So far, no plugs... and my younger son is famous for plugging the toilet with miles & miles of toilet paper.
I do agree that it doesn't rinse as well as others; but with it's flushing action, I guess that's the trade-off. the Cimarron's flush reminds me of an airplane toilet: Whoosh ! It's all gone in one "gulp". And it's ALL gone.
I like it.

Reader Review
02-07-2006, 02:28 PM
Believe what you read!

This toilet does NOT clean the bowl when it flushes. We bought 2, and are taking them back.

Kohler, take a hint! Redesign this thing to work better.
George & Mary

Reader Review
03-03-2006, 09:06 AM
We replaced an old toilet with a Kohler Cimarron. The Cimarron does not cleanse the bowl because the water flow is insufficient. Yes, we hold the handle down to get the “full” flush.

Somebody somewhere has made a kit that will let the tank fill up so that there is enough water to cleanse the bowl. Do you make – or know where I can get – such a kit?

In frustration.

Bob in Amarillo

Reader Review
03-03-2006, 09:07 AM
Just went 15 day's without a toilet after waiting for a new bathroom floor. When my new Cimmaron finally got installed lastnight, I was thrilled. It is amazing, the power in that flush, the style (mine has the round bowl). I didn't notice any problems with the bowl wash, but it has only been 30 hours since my brother in law installed it. I am impressed so far.
Scott.A

Reader Review
03-03-2006, 09:08 AM
I installed this toilet in January 2006. It took me about two hours to install. I have not had an instance of it clogging up, but some of the comments were correct about it not cleansing the back portion, which really did not give me a problem. I noticed that with the tank lid off the valve would close before the entire tank was emptied, but so far has not been a problem with solid waste. If I feel it needs more water I just hold the handle down and count to three.

So far I not needed my plunger and I am well pleased with it, it was worth the money. It came with a seat (the cheapies do not) and the wax ring. I am planning on buying another one and rest assured, it wil be a Kohler Cimmarron.

Best regards

Robert Newton

Reader Review
03-03-2006, 09:08 AM
Believe what you read!

This toilet does NOT clean the bowl when it flushes. We bought 2, and are taking them back.

Kohler, take a hint! Redesign this thing to work better.
George & Mary

JEP
03-03-2006, 11:36 AM
I installed this toilet in my master bathroom a little over a year ago. I agree with the comments that it doesn't clean well when flushed. Other than that I have had no problems with it at all. It flushes great and never clogs.

Reader Review
03-03-2006, 11:40 AM
Terry, Purchased both one month ago and installed at he same time. No sweat for either though the one piece Toto was quicker. After a couple years of plunging some old '93 model Kohler Wellworths something had to be done. Both work very well and we have had not even a suggestion of a plunger need. These toilets are deadly with solid waste, no "victory lap" around the bowl. You simply say "brown buddy you're going down" and that's that. Thanks for the helpful site. JH

Reader Review
03-29-2006, 11:07 AM
purchased three (3) Cimarron Comfort Height toilets to replace the 1997 vintage Eljers that were constantly plugging and required several flushes even after removal of the 'water saver' in the tank. After some homework, I decided on the Cimarron or the Eljer Titan based on several websites and the Home Depot experts. I have installed the three Cimarrons and am very happy with the flush but the bowl wash function is very disappointing. I have talked with Kohler's technical people and they indicate that the poor bowl wash is inherent in their Class Five flush system. At this time there is not a fix but upon pushing a bit and asking about any bowl coatings, the technical help mentioned that waxing the bowl with an automotive paste wax might help keep the bowl clean for more than half a day.

todd

Reader Review
03-29-2006, 11:08 AM
Terry,
Please let your customers know what a great bargain this commode is. We have suffered for the last 11 years with one of the first high efficiency 1.6 gal. toilets on the market. At the time, little was known about them. Our bathrooms were a nightmare and any time we could find someone else's receptacle for a serious dump, we did. The most heavy duty plunger only worked after many tries. The whole situation was a nightmare. Last month, after researching the availability in our area and the reviews of many a commode, (I feel like an expert now), we purchased one Kohler Cimarron, as a test. No mistake this time. The whole family is pleased, from the littlest to the biggest. Needless to say, we have replaced the second commode as well. If anyone has the nightmare we lived through, they will be tickled with the performance of this product. It took lest than 2 hours to remove and replace. Any do-it-yourselfer can tackle this job, even a woman.
Complaints: Only sorry we didn't do it sooner,
We used your reviews extensively in our search for the right product and thank you for your effort in maintaining your web page,
One happy camper,
Malia Boaz

Reader Review
03-29-2006, 11:09 AM
Terry
yes we bought this toilet also and there isn't much water in the bowl
part of which I can see it won't clean itself very good just like that
someone said on the website here but Home Depot has a return policy of
which one pays for the restocking of whatever you bring back so is this
toilet going to cost us to much to return it? It is like we are
between a rock and a hard place and I don't like that at all. I told
the girl that waited on us it is hard to pick out a toilet and
especially when the toilets are above your head..
Linda in Tacoma, WA.

achutch
03-29-2006, 01:47 PM
I also installed a Kohler Cimarron back in August 2004. I liked the extra height, and the style. It also did a great job disposing of solids. But the rinse was terrible. I even tried the bowl cleaner with Teflon, but water can't rinse away what it doesn't touch.

I have a HORRIBLE IRRITABLE bowel, so a toilet that flushes and rinses well is essential. After reading the messages on this site and Terry's Report on Low Flow Toilets, I replaced the Cimarron with a Toto Drake ADA Height model and have had no problems with rinsing or clogging.

Matt

Dunbar Plumbing
03-30-2006, 04:54 AM
I bought and installed a Kohler Cimarron toilet about a month ago. The spec sheet calls for the tank to be 3/4" off the wall with a 12 inch offset. My tank is about 2 1/4" offthe wall with the 12 inch offset. I guess we ill live with it. Walls are plumb so that is not an issue. Toilet flushs good but does not clean well at all. This seems to be a complaint of other buyers as well. As Karen H states in her comment, we now keep the toilet brush handy.
Mon, 19 Dec 2005
Frank

I can vouch for that statement, verbatim with the one that I own.

Cass
03-30-2006, 05:11 AM
I can vouch for that statement, verbatim with the one that I own.

You must have bought it B4 this thread. Or are you just a masochistic plumber. :)

Ms Pamela
04-09-2006, 05:44 PM
Oh my...you would think I was buying a new car. Replacing 10 yr old Kohler toilet. Husband thinks I'm too picky. Well, we have agreed on buying Kohler Cimarron due to it's sleek, simple curves and it will match our Kohler pedestal sink. Salesmen recommend Comfort Hgt - yet said it's for disabled people. We are ave. heights. Will be sitting too high? What about the toddler? Ok for kids? It will be in downstairs guest bathroom - the one that everyone will use and abuse. I hope it cleans well, despite readers comments. And should we buy the seat separately? Not sure what HDepot carries yet. Elger is the big one promoted in stores as C Reports rated it best.

Anything has to be better than what we currently have, which clogs constantly. Always use gross wire snake to clean it as husband thinks reg. plungers don't work. So it's very scratched inside. I hope to get rid of the crappy toilet and the wire snake. Maybe the husband too. :eek:

Reader Review
06-10-2006, 01:12 PM
We have had our Kohler for less than a year. It works alright, not great. Big problem -- you can't use a plunger in it. So, what to do? Get rid of it and get a simple, cheap toilet. Have also had economiser. not the greatest, needless to say. All the hype sounds great, but in reality, these new toilets aren't worth their weight. Judy S

Reader Review
06-10-2006, 01:13 PM
Henry County, Virginia is raising its water rates and cutting monthly allowable usage. So we shopped for a replacement for one of our multi-gallon toilets. Settling on the Kohler Cimarron, we had it installed in just a couple of hours. Trouble didn?t wait very long however. The Cimarron plugged up on the third day of operation, adding $109 in repair expenses to the original purchase price of $*** from Lowe?s. Now I?m so sorry I let my old American Standard be picked up and hauled away. I?d pay to have it back! Better to have the higher bills than the shitty feeling you made a bad decision, and one you will have to live with for awhile.

Better get yourself a six foot snake (the plumber said get the 8 foot if you can find it) if you?re buying the Cimarron. A strangely shaped bowl makes using a traditional plunger not possible.

Doggone it on D-Day

Reader Review
07-12-2006, 02:30 PM
I installed the Kohler Cimarron 3 weeks ago. I bought the complete set, only took me 15 minutes to install. My Nephew had been clogging up our last one in every use and prior one at other home. So, we thought it was time for HP toilet. I have used 2 of the American Standard HP toilets at 2 different shopping malls, they don't seem to have the powerful flushing as to Kohler ( Had to flush twice). This one works great! powerful flush and and larger waste drain!. If anyone has this problem with clogging with standard toilets, this is the toilet for you!

David
Lake Forest,Ca.

Grading the best toilets, the ones that work! (http://www.terrylove.com/crtoilet.htm)

Reader Review
09-18-2006, 03:08 PM
I had a Kohler Cimmeron installed one week ago. The first time I flushed it
I loved it. However, that was without any waste materials to flush with it.
After using the toilet repeatedly it is extremely clear that it has a poor
design regarding cleaning out the bowl. I concur with others that we can now
trade in a plunger for a toilet bowl brush. Better yet-I called the folks
at Kohler to complain-AT least they were honest when they told me that they
have received complaints from others regarding this same issue. GET
THIS-they suggested that I may try using a car wax product on the inside of
the bowl-I COULD NOT BELIEVE MY EARS-I suggested that they address the
problem! Next-I called my local Lowes store where I purchased the toilet
last week and told them of my problem and what Kohler suggested to remedy
the situation. They informed me that it would be no problem to return the
Kohler Cimmeron and that they would help me find a replacement. This is
great but I will now have to pay some one to switch out the toilets. To
Kohler I say - Why don't you look at your design if there are consumers
complaining ???
Ellen-Chicago, IL 9/18/2006

abikerboy
09-18-2006, 09:32 PM
I have a Cimmarron, and a Toto, and I love them both! Flushing...no prob with either! I believe that I could almost flush a basketball through either one if I tried. As for cleaning and bowl wash, Im a compulsive clean freak, so this I cant answer. Both bathrooms get a thorough cleaning twice a week, and if there's a skid mark in any toilet (which there often is, in both the Kohler and the Toto), it immedietly gets the brush and bleach routine! Lol! I am sold on both the Kohler brand (I have several Kohler fixtures), and on the Toto brand.

Jeff1
09-19-2006, 10:25 AM
I have 2 Cimmarons that I purchased this summer (before I saw this site). So far, neither has plugged up although the side walls do not get as good of a flushing as the center. Overall, I'm very happy and no one is complaining. My girlfriend is happy as can be and my teenage sons haven't had any issues. I may replace my downstairs toilet when it fails with a Toto just to get a comparison.

riker1384
09-29-2006, 07:06 PM
I just installed one. It works well, but the water spot is small. It starts out as advertised, big and round and 5 7/8" down from the rim. Then the water trickles out until it's 6 1/4" down and the water spot is small and narrow. I don't know if this is standard or it's a defect but I don't want to have to install a new one again.

jadnashua
09-29-2006, 07:44 PM
The bowl is generally overfilled, and after the water stops, most toilets drain a little until equilibrium is attained. This normally only takes a few seconds.

riker1384
09-29-2006, 09:23 PM
The bowl is generally overfilled, and after the water stops, most toilets drain a little until equilibrium is attained. This normally only takes a few seconds.
In that case the advertising is deceptive. One would assume that when they say it's 8.5x11 that that is how much water is normally resting in the bowl.

Terry
09-30-2006, 10:08 AM
Either the bowl and floor is not level, so the water siphons out,

or you have a porous Kohler bowl.
Water leaking out is not a good sign.

Just another reason I avoid Kohler.

Jim Herbst
10-06-2006, 11:39 AM
Had two Kohler Cimarron toilets installed in April 2006. A few weeks ago one toilet started leaking water so slow it could not be seen leaking into the bowl. Checked the reddish rubber seal and could neither see nor feel any items or spots allowing the leak. There is a time gap of approximately tow minutes after the tank refills the half inch or so of water before the water level drops down and has to refill. Now the second toilet is doing this. Does the Cimarron have a history of bad seals? Is the problem easy to fix?

riker1384
10-09-2006, 01:06 PM
Either the bowl and floor is not level, so the water siphons out, or you have a porous Kohler bowl.
Water leaking out is not a good sign.
I called and they said it wouldn't usually develop a crack right at the top that would make it drain out just a little. They said it could be something wicking it out, which is unlikely since it's new and it's always been this way, or a vent could be making suction if it was really close. They said that vitreous china has a tolerance of 1/4" per foot, so it is about within tolerance; the water is 3/8" below where it's supposed to be. I don't think it's necessarily worth it to try and get a new one from them to install, so I'll probably leave it. The toilet is level. It just looks bad mainly.

maddog
02-10-2007, 02:54 PM
We've had the elongated, comfort-height Cimarron for about a year now and are very happy with it. It was very easy to install. I especially like the bracket on the bottom of the tank - no bolt holes in the bottom of the tank to worry about.
The flush is great - have not had to plunge a single time. It re-fills quickly and quietly. It's true that the bowl wash is not as good as some others, but it really isn't that bad. A quick brush every once in a while sure beats having to plunge! And our local HD carries the replacement flapper in case that ever needs replacing. I would recommend this toilet and will probably be installing another one when we get to the next bathroom.

drewc
03-14-2007, 06:23 PM
I've been using a Cimarron (round bowl version) for about a year. This is my home's first 1.6-gpf toilet, and it has produced mixed results.

We bought it because of its availability (it was at both Home Depot and Lowe's), reasonable price (just over $200), and strong results in the most recent MaP testing (800 g of solids passed).

Positives: Its flush is powerful, quick, and hardly ever clogs -- I've had to plunge it just once, and that was within the first week of use. Other than cleaning, no maintenance has been needed so far. As I mentioned, it is inexpensive and available at national chain hardware stores.

Negatives: The flush is a bit noisy towards the end. But my biggest complaint is the flush's inadequate cleaning of the bowl: smeared remnants of solid waste are left near the trapway almost half the time. (Note: see update below.)Sometimes I can clear the residue by holding the lever down or flushing a second time, but if that doesn't work then I must use a toilet brush. Cleaning was never a problem with our old toilets, although of course they used much more water as they were ancient, 5-gpf American Standards. The cleaning issues have been significant enough that I decided not to buy another Cimarron.

After the Cimarron experience, we replaced the toilet in our master bath with an elongated Toto Drake. While not perfect, the Drake cleans better than the Cimarron, and given the closeness in price I think the Drake is the better buy.

Update (Jan. 10, 2008): It has now been about two years since we installed the Cimarron, and my opinion of the toilet has improved with time. For reasons unknown to me, the bowl-cleaning performance has been much better recently, and I rarely have had to use the brush after flushing. Perhaps the surface of the bowl was made smoother with repeated flushes.

The flush's power remains strong, as I have experienced no clogs in the past year. I still prefer the Toto Drake -- the Cimarron flushes more loudly and takes longer to refill the tank than the Drake -- but the difference between them is not as large as it once was.

inspctr70
04-30-2007, 09:32 AM
I bought a Kohler about four weeks ago to replace my Briggs. I would have to plunge the Briggs every time I used it. The Cimarron is grate. I haven't had to plunge it yet and don't think I will have to. You flush it and it's gone. It took me about an hour to install it, with no problems. The only regret I have is not replacing the Briggs a long time ago.

Ellison
05-03-2007, 01:34 AM
I've had the Cimmaron for 4 months now, and I have mixed feelings about it's performance.

The toilet's best feature is it's bulk waste disposal. Like the web site for it http://www.josplumbing.com it does not clog easily. As in "at all". My Cimmaron has to deal with the most demanding members of my family, my wife and my one year old daughter. My wife uses what I swear is enough Charmin to stuff a small pillow. Our old toilet from "Lamosa" could never cope, I'd be at it day and night with the plunger. My daughter is in Pampers, and those were a definite "forget it" for our old can. The Cimmaron has no problem swallowing the charmin or the Pampers, altho it does have a major issue with the bowl. We've traded the plunger for a brush; there is no "wash down" on several parts on the bowl as most of the water is pushing everything in the drain. If my wife put the diaper in "upside down" we're in for some streaks. We're back to double-flushing for #2 because of this - once to get everything down, another to rinse off the brush.

This is definitely not the toilet you want for the "fresh bowl" feeling.

-E

Cass
05-03-2007, 04:03 AM
Unless there is something new about pampers that I don't know about they should never be flushed down a toilet. All the ones I delt with with my 4 kids were wrapped up and thrown in the trash.

OldPete
06-06-2007, 11:29 AM
I'll throw my own little "review" into this mix.

I bought the Cimmeron about a year ago -- as part of a bath renovation. I finally installed it about 3 weeks ago. I have used it a total of about 8 times. (8 times for "solid" waste :D) -- In a most gentle way I can say that I am the producer of a very large solid waste -- I hope that is the right way to phrase it. In addition I have purposely used a lot of paper as well.

I can also tell you that the toilet it plumber to go to a 90* closet flange and then does a 6 foot run at 1/4" slope per foot and then into another sweep 90* and then down the lower-level wall and into the crawl.

I have the toilet set to fill the tank at the point JUST BEFORE it flows into the "black tube" (if you have this toilet you know what I mean) -- so it is a bit above the intended gpf rating.

I can tell you that this toilet is a friggin' god-send!!! It flushes down everything on the first shot and cleans the bowl just fine... now, not to be too graphic, but we are talking about toilets and "solids" -- I don't know how it will clean the bowl with "wet solids" (if you get my drift) -- as I haven't had that yet. :D

I was VERY close to returning this toilet and going with a Toto since my GF has one in her place and it is very impressive.

I am happy I got the high-sitting model and I really like the elongated bowl (although I don't know exactly why) -- I also got the Bemis soft close seat cover.

All in all -- a great looking and so far, a great performing unit.

:)

MODS: My apologies if I'm too graphic.

skhndrsn
11-17-2007, 03:10 PM
We needed an ADA (comfort height) toilet on short notice for a family member when a flare in her rheumatoid arthritis made the standard height impossible to use. I called a local plumbing company and let them talk me into the Kohler Cimarron they had in stock to install that day. BIG MISTAKE! I knew from reading the forums that the Cimarron had bowl wash quirks, but this was horrible, unless I was willing to clean after every use (and I was SO not). And I could smell it. Immediately. Ugh. Called them back and found out they could have gotten me the Toto Drake I asked for in 24 hours, which is what they did after I insisted. What an improvement! Flushes everything, a snap to install, and no odd smells. As to cleaning, it needs no more than our old water hogs needed. For anyone with handicapped or otherwise weakened family members, both of these new low-flow toilets were too stiff for our family member to flush. We installed a foot pedal ($30. Foot Flush), which worked great but eventually caused knee problems on the flushing leg. We then went to a wireless automatic flusher (Auto-Flush for tank toilets $144.) It's just super. Anyone with kids or with toilet-trained cats will like this option too. Very easy install and wonderful hands-free flushing on our Toto Drake. We're planning to install Totos in the rest of the house. Couldn't be more pleased. Run, don't walk, AWAY from Kohler.

Sofa King
11-18-2007, 08:30 AM
Confucious say: He who sits on Kohler Cimmaron is high on pot.

mawingo
12-13-2007, 09:40 AM
Either the bowl and floor is not level, so the water siphons out,

or you have a porous Kohler bowl.
Water leaking out is not a good sign.

Just another reason I avoid Kohler.

I have two of these installed and overall think they're great, but the small water spot is annoying. As soon it's done flushing, it just stays at the bottom , barely filling the hole at the bottom. It doesn't stay at one level and then come down. I can let a little water in manually to a level I like, and it stays that way until it's used again. But it starts all over again. Both toilets behave exactly the same way. Are there any other options for getting the water level up, or is it just as Terry says above?

wally
12-25-2007, 01:30 PM
I own two of these Cimmarons. They are garbage. Keep your scrub brush handy. I am embarrassed when I have company over that they may end up having to clean them. Will never trust a Kohler product again.

Reader Review
03-11-2008, 09:42 AM
I'm disappointed with the Kohler Cimarron. The flapper is poorly designed and closes too soon. I purchased another flapper which didn't work any better. I contacted the company and they sent me a flapper that was no better. I'm unable to purchase an "adjustable" flapper for the Cimarron because they don't fit this design. If I plug the hole on the side of the flapper it works like it should. I'm currently trying to find a permanent fix now that will last. It just needs more "float." I have to hold the handle down to flush properly and I have only 1/4 inch slack in the chain.
Otherwise, it was an easy toilet to install. Came with all necessary hardware. If the flapper worked properly I would rate it a 10. I paid considerably extra for the Kohler brand and regret it now. I would currently rate it a 3.
Mike S

Reader Review
03-11-2008, 09:42 AM
I installed the Koehler Cimarron Comfort Height toilet last week and am extremely pleased. My old 5 gallon flush Trylon toilet would need to be flushed twice in most cases. I have not needed to flush the Koehler Cimarron more than once. What a relief I am using so much lesss water and the toilet actually works. I could not be more pleased.
Bill

becky t.
03-22-2008, 01:22 PM
My husband and I purchased a Kohler Cimarron less than two weeks ago for the girl's bathroom because we were tired of the old toilet needing the plunger every other time. We bought this one because it said you could 'flush it and forget it'. I was leery at the shape of the opening on the bottom since it was like a elongated rectangle, but , I thought .....we'll never need the plunger. Yeah, right! two days ago it clogged and guess what? A plunger will not work because of that weird shape! We tried two different plungers, and nothing! After two or three hours of trying buckets of water, etc. we gave up and called a plumber the next day. (my arms are still sore, BTW!) He had a super duper plunger and worked at it for about ten minutes and thankfully got rid of the clog. He said take the toilet back because otherwise we would need a snake to clear it next time. A PLUNGER WILL NOT WORK with this toilet because this toilet has a faulty design! We went back to Lowe's today and got an Eljer but I made sure to check out that it has a ROUND opening on the bottom so a ROUND plunger can be used!!!! I will never buy another Kohler toilet again! Wish me luck with the Eljer!!!

Reader Review
03-29-2008, 04:14 PM
have lived with this toilet for two years, and would not recommend it. Problems include poor bowl cleanliness due to lack of swirl, loud flush (my 6 year old won’t flush it at night because it scares her), small and hard to press flush lever, and difficultly plunging because of the rectangular shape. Clogs are relatively rare, but still happen. If I could sell these, I’d switch.
D. Issac

redforever
05-15-2008, 09:10 PM
We purchased 3 Cimarron toilets a year ago. They are the one piece models, elongated bowls.

We have not had one plug and we have no problem whatsoever with the bowl washing adequately. You can set the water level, at least our son in law did. The tank fills completely each time and we get one quick, efficient whoosh every time.

Best toilets we have ever owned.

Reader Review
06-18-2008, 03:39 PM
We have just had 5 Kohler Cimarron Comfort Height toilets installed in a new home. They are so loud upon flushing, I am just wondering if that is a characteristic or if they were improperly installed.
Ann J

achutch
06-19-2008, 07:11 AM
The noise is normal. I also had a Cimarron, and I got rid of it because of it's bad rinse and replaced it with a Toto Drake, which sounds similar when flushed: a slight bang when the flapper closes and a nice hearty gulp when it "swallows".

achutch

tlonnie@windstream.net
08-20-2008, 06:56 PM
i am also a plumber, i also endorse the cimmaron, i have had no problems whatsoever with these closets, i know this sounds silly , but what brand of toilet paper do you use, i'll bet it begins with a C , THANKS

Toiletguru
09-05-2008, 11:12 AM
I own two Cimarron "Tall Boy" EL's. Owned for three month's, yes they have a weak rinse and I have had one clog. I just ordered a Toto Drake today to install this weekend. I will let you know the results. I may end up taking the "Tall Boys" Back. I also experienced a smaller then usual bowl fill, the fill hose pointing down "that hole thingy" came loose and was pointing directly into the tank. Once pointed correctly, the bowl filled to it's standard depth and circumference. Guru out

bungcisco
09-28-2008, 09:33 AM
It is lovely to look at and flushes the big stuff down, but the bowl gets skid marks every time after a number 2. A second flush won't clean up the residue either. This is not for a powder room that will get frequent use. I'm making myself sick talking about this. Is there a market for used toilets?

achutch
09-28-2008, 01:44 PM
Mine went to the "Reuse Zone", a building at the "transfer station" (fancy term for the dump) where items that can be reused are there for the taking.

My guess is that either someone took it and didn't mind the issues that you described, or it ended up in the dumpster. It is better off in either place than in my bathroom!

The TOTO Drake which replaced it (almost 3 years ago) is a keeper and has worked perfectly every time.

achutch

Nomad of Norad
11-08-2008, 02:56 PM
A few months ago, we installed two new Kohler class-five toilets. They took the place of two low-water toilets we'd installed in the early 90s. The new install was partly because one of the old ones was loose, that the underlying flange was possibly broken, and the two hadn't really performed all that well anyway.

We brought in a plumber to install the two new toilets (my folks are getting old, and I'm no handyman), and so far as I understand it, the plumber didn't notice any obvious damage to the flange under the front-bathroom toilet, and just went ahead and installed the new toilet.

We have the old style cast-iron sewage pipes in this house (this house was built in the 60s or so, or maybe the 50s...) so the low-water toilets weren't really suited for this house anyway. Or so the lady in the plumbing department at Lowes seemed to think. But, then, those early water-saver toilets were a joke, anyway.

In any event, the new toilets are the kind that are advertised as being totally clog proof... the ones from the TV spot where the guy frantically dumps everything in sight into the toilet trying to clog it up so he has an excuse to call in the lady plumber working next door...

Well, sometimes the new toilet doesn't seem to flush quite right. I flush it, and the poop doesn't entirely leave the bowl. The toilet doesn't seem to complete the whole flush. Other times it works perfectly. I've gotten into the habit of holding down the lever until it completes the flush, though, because sometimes it seems to only start to flush, but then stop immediately.... like it takes only the first second or so of the flush action and then stops in its tracks, as if I hadn't pressed the lever all the way.

Yesterday, I went to flush it, and it instead drained the bowl... very slowly, and the poop and TP didn't move one iota, except to be lowered down onto the now-dry base of the bowl! I waited for the tank to fill, watched as the bowl slowly filled back up to about its normal level, and then I flushed it again... to the same result. This happened several times in succession before I finally gave up on it, and went to take a shower.

Some while later, I came back to it and found that the water had largely drained out of the bowl, this time on its own... and I flushed it again. This time it immediately filled the bowl, and the poop went nowhere. And the water level came to higher than it usually sits, and remained there. I grabbed a plunger and started plunging it... which sometimes helps after LOTS of pushing, but is probably futile. Incredibly, after a moment of this, the water level seemed to be slowly rising! In fact, after I simply stopped plunging, it ever so slowly rose to the top of the bowl... and then slowly started overflowing it.

Now, I'd earlier brought the issue of the not-quite-flushing problem up with the lady at Lowes (who strikes me very much as an expert in these matters), who tells me that there's simply no way it could be the toilet at fault, and that there has to be something messed up further down the pipe from it. She thinks either that a major root has gotten into that section of our sewage pipe, or that there's a problem with the venting pipe (or whatever its called) that typically goes up to an opening in the roof -- say, that some animal crawled in it and died -- but that it cannot possibly be a problem with the toilet itself...

I'm not really all that good at relaying that info to my folks, though... I've probably done a better job of it here than I did to them... and anyway they don't seem to have been listening, either.

I brought it up again yesterday, during the overflow problem, but Mom just thinks that's all nonsense, and insists the problem is PURELY that I'm using too much toilet paper, and even this time went so far as claiming that I was folding it wrong!

I keep remembering this thing I saw on History Channel about "bathroom tech," where they showed all the work they put into making sure these new class five toilets will flush anything you dump into them, trying every possible thing they could to clog them up -- filling them with a gazillion golf balls, filling them up with abnormally large piles of simulated, solid poop, and so on, and then flushing it -- to satisfy themselves that the design they'd developed was worth shipping.... and anyway, there was a poster (for a different brand of class-five toilet) in the toilet aisle at Lowes showing a little boy standing there almost buried in toilet paper, with words to the effect that there's no need to be concerned about the toilet not flushing...

So no, I don't buy for a second the notion that the answer here is being really really careful with the toilet paper!

Oh yeah, and apparently also there's been some kind of "leak problem" the last couple of weeks. I gather the tank mechanism sometimes, intermittently, keeps on filling the tank and they have to pop open the top and stop it. Apparently it just fills the tank to capacity... and keeps on going, letting the water keep going down the overflow. I hadn't ever noticed it doing that myself, but I'm not usually where I can hear it, as it happens, and they hadn't volunteered the fact to me either, I guess they just assumed I'd noticed it as well. :rolleyes:

And a couple of times this last week, I'd come into the bathroom to find that the toilet rug was sopping wet, and been pushed off to the side. Dunno if that has anything to do with the leak they were talking about above, thought I do notice they've freshly cauked all around the base of the toilet lately...

Is there something online somewhere I can point my folks to that shows, visually, how it's possible that it could be a problem with the pipes down past the toilet? Something with detailed diagrams and stuff? They don't want to spend the money bringing in a plumber with one of those pipe-camera things, because they figure the pipe-camera thing would be really expensive to bring in, but it's the only way I could imagine it being possible to prove, or rule out, that the problem is a big, fat, tree-root messing things up down there...

Terry
11-08-2008, 03:58 PM
If the fill valve is not shutting off, and the toilet is plugged, it can overfill the bowl.
You may need to clean or repair the fill valve.

The plug is either in the trapway, or in the piping below.
One way to check the toilet would be to run a closet auger through, making sure that is clear.

The closet augers I like to use have an end on them that is over 1.5" across.

There is really no such thing as a bowl that can't be plugged.
I find that little rubber ducky's plug them real well.

http://www.terrylove.com/images/auger_01.jpg

Nomad of Norad
11-08-2008, 05:06 PM
Okay, I don't doubt under unusual situations it would be possible to clog the thing up. Say, cramming a big, thick towel directly into the hole in the bottom of the bowl. What I meant was, under normal operation of the toilet, with nothing but toilet paper and semi-soft poop, even lots and lots of it, it shouldn't be that easy to stop it up. After all, the primary purpose of a toilet is to flush toilet paper and poop. Not rubber duckies. :cool:

I think the matter that happened yesterday, though, with the bowl slowly emptying, was a weird fluke or something, because I've never seen it do that before.

On the other hand, for awhile now I have heard the fill valve cut in for maybe two seconds or so, then cut out again, every little while. Could that be an indication that something in there is adjusted wrong?

Terry
11-08-2008, 08:52 PM
There are plenty of toilets that work better than the Kohler Class Five (http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4834&highlight=cimarron+review).
The trapway on the Class Five is not a good design.

I had one in the house for a while, and plugging it was not that hard.

http://www.terrylove.com/wc/kohler/cim_1_trapway.jpg
Kohler Cimarron trapway. Most plugs happen right where the trapway ends.
The bend is too tight.

Nomad of Norad
11-09-2008, 11:50 AM
Well, we came close to buying a different make and brand, next to that one was a print ad saying it would flush a bucket full of golf balls, but they had only one in stock... so we went with the Kohler because we wanted two identical units. :rolleyes:

Would it help to get one of those plungers with the rectangular-shaped cup?

And, what exactly WOULD be the circumstances under which that slow-draining-bowl event likely happen?

Terry
11-09-2008, 12:19 PM
Read the post above with the picture of the closet auger.

Any plunger with a small end works.
You just leave a bit of water in the bowl to seal around it.
Short strokes up and down, may an inch or two, pretty quickly, and then slightly lift the plunger.

http://www.terrylove.com/images/korky_plunger.jpg

Reader Review
11-17-2008, 03:50 PM
I recently remodeled my bathroom and one of the products i opted for was the kohler one piece cimmeron ada height toilet. I am no expert so before decicing i did research on different available models, their engineered features, colors, costs and reviews. I have used the cimmeron now for a few months and am dissatisfied with it. It has a 3 ˝ inch drain as opposed to others that have a 3 inch and the older toiets with a 2 ˝ inch drain. It has a fast flush which is strong but it does stuff up sometimes and most of the time it is easy to clear with a plunger, but not always. I rate it’s ease of use as a 2 because i take into consideration the number of flushes needed, the stain removal ability and needed cleaning after use. It has a straight drop flush with no cyclonic action what-so-ever. Add to that the very low water level in the bowl and some areas of the bowl where hardly any, (if any), water at all flows from the inside top rim and you have a major inside of the bowl cleaning problem. I have a bowl brush next to the toilet to use after almost every use. Get a toilet that has a high water level in the bowl with cyclonic action for better performance. If not then learn the manual of arms with a bowl brush!!
Stew f. Plainfield, nj. Saturday march 15, 2008.

mawingo
12-17-2008, 05:16 PM
Just wanted to add a couple cents to this thread since my last post. Last year we moved into a 25 year old home, complete with a pair of dated American Standard Plebe's. I bought these two toilets to replace because of a) the Kohler name, b) the "power flush" feature, and c) the comfort height elongated bowl. It has been almost a year now since I installed these and my review is still largely positive. I've had them clog on occasion, but they are easy to plunge. It takes a few swift strokes to do so but it works fine. To get the max effect of the flush you need to hold down the lever until all the water is out of the tank. If left alone it will close a tad early. The bowl wash is annoying though. These do not stay clean.

For $250 each I think they're worth it. Happy trails.

JerseyJerry
01-19-2009, 09:14 AM
WOW! :eek: After reading this thread, I guess I better hold onto my trusty 30 year old American Standard toilet! I installed it when I remodeled the bathroom in 1978 and it still works perfectly. Replaced the "innards" a few times, but it very rarely clogs. Only when my son was a small child and various objects found their way into the bowl, was there a problem. We have our own well, so water metering by the town is not a factor.

drewc
01-24-2009, 09:34 PM
Has anyone here used the new, Class Six version of the Cimarron?

According to this Consumer Reports blog entry (http://blogs.consumerreports.org/home/2009/01/kohler-cimarron-class-six-lowflow-watersense-toilet.html), the Class Six flush system (http://www.us.kohler.com/tech/products/why_classsix.jsp) can be configured as a HET (1.28 gpf) or for 1.6-gpf flushes. The wording in the blog entry suggests that it's a dual-flush design, but I don't believe that's the case; the Kohler web site doesn't say anything about dual-flush in the features for this model.

More interesting is the claim of better bowl cleaning:


And older Class Five toilets, for example, fell short when it came to cleaning the bowl after bulk flushes, explains a Kohler spokesperson. But according to Kohler, the rim-jet flow on the company's Class Six toilets has been redirected in an effort to improve bowl cleaning.

That sounds good, but is it true? I won't be the first to test it. We've already replaced all the toilets in our house.

Terry
01-24-2009, 09:42 PM
I believe the Tulalip Casino in Marysville has the Kohler Class 6 in the rooms.
The rinse is now 360 in the bowl, no longer missing the back.
Still very little rinse, and what I considered a loud flush.
But the rooms there are very nice.
The shower has three shower heads, nice.

The trapway design has bends that are too tight.
In real use, they will clog more then a toilet with a good trapway.

It is not a dual flush. I don't know why they would think that.

The last time I went there, the Cimarron was leaking and refilling all night long.
It needed a replacement flapper after one year of use.

Crapper
02-12-2009, 11:54 AM
We had the original 1992-1993 Kohler Wellworth Lite No-Flush toilets when we built our house (what was I thinking! I had a duplex and had used the Wellworth in those 2 bathrooms but that pre-1992 standards). Anyways these would plug 9 out 10 times when you took a dump. Ended up keeping a toilet plunger next to each toilet. I complained to the local dealer and they sent out a Kohler rep who insisted everything was "fine". I invited him over for dinner so that he could take a test drive himself but he refused. I wonder why? I wrote a letter to Kohler directly and they finally admitted that "Yes, they do have a slight problem" and that gave me the OK to change out the toilet bowls that have a larger opening. So I spent the better part of day taking apart 3 toilets and putting them back together again. Now they only plug 8 out of 10 times! They used to plug so bad that on 3 occassions I had to remove the toilets and use a coat hanger to unclog it from the bottom!! Gross !!! After 15 years of this crap my wife and I decided to upgade to the Cimarron (kept with Kohler because of the Biscuit color and we had sinks that matched). The Cimarron flushes well but it does have a tendency to leave "skid marks". We traded the plungers for brushes! The whole flushing process takes about 2 seconds. It got plugged once and they don't work very well with a plunger due to the way the drain is designed (the plunger cannot cover the opening). Ended up using a plastic coated coat hanger to retrieve the toilet paper that was causing the problem.

I will never ever consider a Kohler product again! Stay clear of this one.

dlroseberry
02-19-2009, 09:34 AM
I installed a cimarron two days ago. It is already apparent that it's not going to plug as often as our circa 1994 Crane. But the complex shape of the bowl may make it harder to get a seal if plunging is necessary; I don't know yet on that. The bowl is designed to hold very little water and still has a decent water surface. To do this the slope of the bowl is pretty shallow below the waterline. Bowl cleaning may be a problem but we haven't seen it and frankly, plugging is is the more serious issue as far as we're concerned.

I suspect there will always be tradeoffs with low flow toilets because larger traps take more water, more water in the bowl keeps it cleaner, better rinsing takes more water or more water velocity. More water velocity is noisier, complicated and expensive. But on the whole, I think the large diameter valve between the tank and the bowl is the best way to go.

pfs53
03-22-2009, 07:24 PM
I am remodeling both bathrooms and let the contractor recommend which stool to install. My only caveat to him was that it must work (that plus I requested the comfort height and the elongated bowl). He and the gentleman who installed it assured me that this particular toilet works very well.
Well, it's less than 2 weeks since the first one was installed and it has now clogged up. I went out to Bed, Bath and Beyond and purchased the best plunger they had in stock, but it will not work with these toilets. Because of the shape of the bowl, I cannot get a good seal. Consequently, instead of the air being forced down the drain and clearing the clog, it is forced back into the bowl splashing water out of the bowl - and on me.
I asked my contractor what plunger works with this toilet and he had no idea. He claims it had never come up. He seems like an honest enough guy, but I'm wishing now I had done my own homework. I'm afraid I'm now stuck with a couple of toilets that clog easily.

Probedude
03-23-2009, 07:50 PM
For what it's worth, when looking at my friend's Cimarron, the bowl shape is darn near identical to the Toto Drake - rectangular'ish.

What TP are you using when you're clogging your Cimarron? We had some Charmin Ultra soft and that was clogging even our Toto Eco Drake. Put that TP in, do your duty on top of it, then add more TP and you've now clogged a Drake, and I'm sure a Cimarron too.

Grading the best toilets, the ones that work! (http://www.terrylove.com/crtoilet.htm)

Terry
03-24-2009, 12:04 AM
I had the Cimarron and the Drake (http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5241) in the same bathroom.
The Cimarron does clog much easier then the Drake.

Jetta Whirlpool Baths
04-18-2009, 08:42 PM
Just quoted a customer a Kohler Elongated Comfort Height Cimmaron. (K-3496-33) And when I called my supplier for a shipping quote, she told me that that model has been discontinued and is requiring an upgrade to the 3489, one piece with class 6 flush, quite the upgrade.

Can anyone confirm?

SewerRatz
04-18-2009, 09:36 PM
Just quoted a customer a Kohler Elongated Comfort Height Cimmaron. (K-3496-33) And when I called my supplier for a shipping quote, she told me that that model has been discontinued and is requiring an upgrade to the 3489, one piece with class 6 flush, quite the upgrade.

Can anyone confirm?

I can confirm Monday morning for you. I sold one about three weeks ago, but in this industry anything can happen in three weeks.

Redwood
04-18-2009, 10:36 PM
Kohler constantly reengineers it's stuff...
Part of the reason why Kohler parts are such a PITA to get...:mad:

I hate Kohler!

http://www.terrylove.com/wc/kohler/kohler_canister.jpg

Link about the chain tangling on the new canister flush valve (http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30693)
__________________

gusherb94
04-18-2009, 11:13 PM
Kohler constantly reengineers it's stuff...
Part of the reason why Kohler parts are such a PITA to get...:mad:

I hate Kohler!

There wild contraptions certainly are fun and challenging to study though!:eek::p:D

Redwood
04-19-2009, 01:10 AM
There wild contraptions certainly are fun and challenging to study though!:eek::p:D

Sometimes pricy too!
http://www.kohlerserviceparts.kohler.com/AccessoriesInformation.aspx?ServicePartID=891d1d44 5af648b49ffac0212958029c&SearchedString=30669&PageNum=0&PageSize=12

Somehow $469 seems to be a bit steep to fix a toilet...
I'd consider it to be a throwaway toilet....

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f2/Redwood39/kohlerpn30669.jpg

gusherb94
04-19-2009, 10:58 AM
Campbells soup company was low on sales and Kohler was feeling bad so they bought a million cans of soup from them, but then Kohler didn't know what to do with all those cans of soup, so then Kohler fed the soup to the wild dogs in back of the factory and made flush valves out of the soup cans.:eek::D:mad:

Jetta Whirlpool Baths
04-21-2009, 07:22 AM
OK did a little research from yet another supplier and have found:

1.) Kohler is upgrading the Cimmaron to the Class 6 flushing system.
2.) In this upgrade, they are discontinuing a majority of their fashion and full line colors. (killing the only reason ever to buy a Kohler IMHO.)
3.) This requires you to upgrade to the 1 piece Cimmaron, which for whatever reason hasnt been upgraded/discontinued or move over to a completely different toilet that does have Mexican Sand as a color option, like the Kelston? Which is still more money I believe.

Nice to see that Kohler still lists discontinued models on its website as if you can still order them like usual... *sigh*

Terry
05-22-2009, 09:29 AM
Video of the Kohler Class Five Flush (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd6oWtzGapA)

12inch_rough_in
06-15-2009, 12:44 AM
Hey just read many of the comments of people having problems with various problems from cleaning action to what sounded like a bad installation.

The latest KOHLER-Cimerron Version is the only class 6 toilet available on the market today. For just about the same price as American Standard you get a far Superior product with KOHLER.

A Cimerron toilet has a 3 1/2 flapper opening, boasting the largest of any manufacturer to date! Kohler when they introduced this line stated " You can flush 100 feet of toilet paper in on flush!" Now I would never try that myself, that's one hell of a claim, and Kohler was was the first to say it. (Geez 40 golf balls in a single flush, claimed by others just makes me feel "Ahh Yea Right, let me test that one out when I paid $35.00 for the new Spaldings golf balls I just bought":eek: (OK maybe the kid in my house might).

American Standard months later came out with the "CADET 3" meaning they had had the toilet that could flush 150 feet of toilet paper with a flapper opening of just 3 inches.

As of June 17, 2009 I am to attend a Kohler sponsored class on the new or what ever I can learn about products all through where I work paying me to do so.
I'll will dutifully share what I learn with you all!

Terry
06-15-2009, 08:42 AM
The problem with the Cimarron is mainly the trapway, which has not improved since it was introduced.

Class 4,5,6,7 are marketing terms now.

The numbers mean nothing.

In real use, a Toto class 4 is equal to a Eljer class 7
A Eljer class 7 and Toto 4 are better then the Kohler class 5 and 6

All of these use a 3" or larger flush valve.
But you still have to look at the trapway. That is where the clogging occurs.
The Cimarron trapway has too tight of bends where it leaves the bowl.
It does clog more then other trapways out there in real use.

If you look at quality of construction, and consistent rinse, then the Toto class 4 comes out at the top.
Toto doesn't keep changing the number, they are the ones being chased.
4 was meant to be a classification for commercial products.
That's as high as you get.

The other manufacturers can come out with
Newer, bigger, surreal, octofying, suptregasping, amectacking, unreally, wackanobby,
it doesn't change a thing.

My personal experience with Class 6 Cimarron, is that the rinse is now 360, but still not very good.

43sbest
07-05-2009, 06:35 PM
I recently remodeled our master bath and had a choice of the Kohler Cimarron (class 6),Toto Drake or several other toilets at no cost. A couple of years ago the company I work for added to our office and installed Drake's in the two new restrooms. For my remodel I chose the Cimarron comfort height and also replaced the toilet in our other bath with the Cimarron. To me the class 6 Cimarron is not only a better operating toilet but it is also more appealing than the Drake. The soft close seats are the cats meow and the entire seat can be removed in about 5 seconds which makes cleaning around the top of the bowl so much easier.

Just my opinion of course.

Terry
07-25-2009, 10:54 AM
http://www.terrylove.com/wc/kohler/cim_1_trapway.jpg
The trapway on the Cimarron lays flat, hopefully waste makes it through the tight bend for the flange.
This is where I find the most plugs with the bowl.
Not a good design.

http://www.terrylove.com/wc/kohler/cim_1_inside_tank.jpg
Looking inside the Kohler Cimarron one-piece tank.
The toilet was installed one year ago.
The flapper is leaking on this one and refilling about every two minutes.

http://www.terrylove.com/wc/kohler/cim_1_top.jpg
The toilet looks nice on the tile floor.

http://www.terrylove.com/wc/kohler/cim_1_bowl.jpg
It could use better bowl wash.
Much of the bowl never gets touched by water from the under rim jets.

Reader Review
09-03-2009, 07:28 PM
am a professional handyman and a former building engineer. I install between 8 to 12 toilets per year and repair/rebuild
another 20. I installed my first, and last, Kohler Cimmaron four weeks ago. A single, middle-aged woman has had the
toilet clog five times since installation. A normal, even large plunger will not seal so that option is out. I have had to
auger the unit four times. I even removed and re-set the toilet, just to make sure nothing had clogged the line. Today
I removed the unit and returned it to Home Depot. I picked up a Toto Drake from the local plumbing supply. I need to
see how this performs. My son-in-law is a plumber and has had numerous problems with newer Kohler toilets clogging.
I've had some luck with American Standard Champion 4 but not with the Cadet 3.

C Schertizing

fyoungrn
09-13-2009, 10:41 AM
I replaced my old 70s toilets (2) with the Kohler Cimmaron almost 2 years ago. It was taking 2 or 3 flushes to get rid of solid waste, plus the water usage was bothering me. I was looking for a low-water volume, high-pressure flush toilet, and the guy at Lowe's recommended this one. He called it the "big dump" model! They had a sheet that compared different models, and it did say that the Cimmaron was rated lower in the bowl cleaning department, so I knew that going in. I am very happy with them, they flush everything with one flush, and I have not had any problems with clogging, even with my husbands "big dumps." For the occasional "cling-on" I just don some disposable gloves and use a toilet wipe to take care of it (I'm a nurse so dealing with human waste is not a problem for me). I have been very happy with them so far.

The one problem I had early on was that the float was not set properly so that the toilet kept running. That was a simple fix, just followed the directions that came with the toilet.

Now I have a different problem which started last night. The tank fills up very slowly. I'm going to reference the picture of the innards on page one of this threas. I apologize in advance, I don't know the terminology for toilets. The problem seems to be located in the apparatus on the left side of the tank, which has a red cap over it, with a gray shaft running down it. The water is not getting to the little white hose which runs from the gray shaft to the black column located on the right side of the tank. I took the white hose off to check if it was clogged, and it is not. I stuck a toothpick a little ways where the hose attaches to the gray shaft, and it did not appear to be clogged. The interesting thing is, if I turn the water going into the tank off completely for a second, then turn it back on again, it will flow all the way through normally. I'm thinking that maybe there is a stuck valve or a piece of debris that gets unstuck when I turn off the water pressure, but gets stuck again by the time it runs through the flush cycle.

Any help on how to fix this would be appreciated.

fyoungrn
09-13-2009, 12:13 PM
So while I was typing in my story, my brother was on his computer looking up how to fix the problem.

It turned out that the seal needed to be replaced. The Loews does not carry the correct Fluidmaster replacement parts for the Cimarron. Found the parts at Ace Hardware. The entire float assembly is part number 400A. The seal part number is 242. There is also a cap, which contains a seal also, which says "for 400A."

We just replaced the cap, and, voila! problem solved!:D

Edit: here is the link he was looking at:

http://www.fluidmaster.com/html/troubleshooting.html

redsox04
10-03-2009, 02:02 PM
the toilet no longer flushes....any thoughts

micp879
10-11-2009, 11:54 AM
You need to give us more info regarding the symptoms. Such as does water rise in the bowl and just swirl around, or does nothing happen, period?.... What kind of toilet is it?.... etc. Your description is like someone saying "my car doesn't run." There are alot of possibilities, and if you want help, you are going to need to supply more info.

Disappointed
10-21-2009, 04:13 PM
I wish I had read this forum before purchasing not one, but TWO new Kohler Cimarron toilets. I had both bathrooms remodeled and decided to upgrade to a new, sleek toilet. Yes, they look nice, but the flush does NOT clean the bowl. There are whole areas of the bowl that the water jets don't even touch. There is no swirl, just sort of a downward stream that hits about half the bowl. My 15 year old American Standard basic toilets that I removed were far superior. I am just very angry at the poor performance. I dread the day that a guest in my home uses the toilet and discovers that the "evidence" of their use is left all over the bowl. Sorry, I don't know how else to put it. This toilet simply doesn't offer much but good looks.

mt si dad
10-31-2009, 01:27 PM
We've had the class 5 Kohler for about 2 years now.

It started randomly blocking about a month after we had it. Due to the way the exit hole in the bowl is made, standard plungers don't work. I bought one of those black "ball" plungers, which works *only slightly better*.

The toilet plugs about weekly now. It's a real irritant because you have to plunge and plunge, and nothing happens. then the water will slowly drain, and maybe it will clear itself. Or, it might not drain all night & require another session of plunging.

About a month ago the toilet never stopped running. the little clip that holds the tube into the overflow value had snapped off or something, but it's gone. I would suspect it in the plugging, but the plugging has been going on for a long time.

Now, today, the assembly that controls the actual flushing (the long black tube with the float) has broken and the toilet will not stop filling. Even holding up the float arm manually does not stop it. I have the water turned off while I go to the hardware store to buy a replacement.

I was always happy with my Kohler sink and faucet in the kitchen, but I am terribly, terribly disappointed in this very expensive toilet that is undependable. The toilet I bought for the guest bathroom for $90 from Lowes with the minimal hardware has in the last 10 years plugged 3 times. The Kohler beat that record in the first few months we had it.

I would never buy another Kohler product for any reason. Even if I were replacing my sink, I would choose a competitor's product.

Gregg
11-03-2009, 11:28 PM
I saw many complaints on the Kohler Cimmarron toilet regarding it lacking rinse. Kohler had a class 5 flushing system that has been redesigned and it is a class 6 flushing system. (they look the same)The class 5 most water upon flushing went through the siphon jet where the class 6, 1/2 the water passes through the siphon jet and 1/2 through the rim for a better rinse. When purchasing the Kohler I recommend the class 6 flushing system.

pexman
11-09-2009, 05:46 PM
just a DIY guy. i replaced an old american standard with a round kohler wellworth class 5 about 1 1/2 months ago, just before a company of 8 grown relatives came. it performed well under those circumstances and so far, still no problems. bowl wash is adequate, in fact i found out that the old 3.5 that gave me a lot bowl wash tended to smear marks than clean the bowl.
also installed a cadet 3 round bowl in a friend's house 2 weeks ago, i felt the kohler has a much better finish. i will have the opportunity to test drive it myself this weekend
i will give updates regarding their respective performances.

i always hear about poor bowl wash on the kohler but so far as my kohler wellworth class 5 has not been in need of any cleaning. and i have purposely not cleaned it since i installed it. flushing is excellent.

2 months problem free


My brother has one of those Kohlers. He's very happy with his flush....because he doesn't see the (non-Toto) toilet I have that flushes as well and has a much better bowl rinse. His kohler has almost no bowl wash. I wonder if his wife is happy cleaning the toilet more often (1 teen and 1 ******* also live in the house).[/QUO
florida orange,
i have a kohler, i have to tell you that the bowl rinse is more than adequate to clean the bowl. it is working as designed. have you asked your brother/wife if they had to clean their kohler more than necessary?

my kohler wellworth class 5 round bowl, bought from ********* , is performing superbly for the last 2 months with very heavy use. takes care of everything in one flush, water is very clear post flush unlike my old american std. bowl remains clean, which to me means the bowl rinse is adequate to clean the bowl.
i will get another one of these once the need arises on my other bathroom.

[quote=FloridaOrange;234725]If I remember when we aren't eating I will ask my sister-in-law.



You should see my house Terry, my wife has borderline OCD when it comes to cleaning. 23-1/2 hours a day our house is more than fit for guests.
Happy Thanksgiving day to you, sir. Now I know that your statement about kohler was a supposition. I assure you that mine is not.


Not true.


But if you like numbers, would you be interested in a 1968 Chevy Nova with a big V-8 Engine?
It's a 350 cubic inch. Wow! That's really big.

Drum brakes on four wheels, and a vinyl bench seat.
The AM radio gets five stations.



To see what we are talking about in waste, this is the old method of testing before they started wrapping the paste.
Drake 800 grams by Veritech Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmuzFve6O4k)

Terry,
I submit to your expertise when it comes to plumbing. However I believe this is not a good analogy, the statement was referring to MaP which is a laboratory controlled performance test. It's like a 0-60mph test on cars, not engine displacement,brakes nor radio equipment comparison.

i have to say this toilet exceedingly performs well. it does not seem to get smeared, thanks to an unusually large water spot that is almost as large as the toilet seat hole, thus any human detritus ends up falling on water whether its a small child or a 185 lbs man who eats plenty of roughage. mid november , a family member had a bout of diarrhea due to food poisoning after the flush, the bowl walls were clean! slight brown smear within the water spot that disappeared later on. did not have to bring out the brush to clean it out. what i do now is i spray the inside of bowl with simple green about 2x/week.
i will measure the water spot for my next post. might even take a picture to show it.


What a fantastic toilet and for a fantastic price too.

A small gap between the tank and the bowl is normal.

I get a slight rock on mine too, if I push it.


i second the motion on all counts. i installed one in a friends house and have used it on 2 occasions since then. very good value toilet.


John Koehler of MaP has said many times, that their test, only checks one thing.
That's right, even they say it only tests one thing.
And he also has said that the manufacturers have figured out what that one thing is.
Here let me make that one point clear, I'm holding up one finger for you.

The difference between what they do, and what I do, is that I "do" look at everything.
And the people writing in, look at everything.
And, if a product is junk, they quit buying it.

That's why I'm replacing Cimarron toilets with Drakes and Ultramax toilets.
It's why I almost never sell Caroma toilets anymore. Not that they don't have their supporters. Even John Koeller bought one on the basis of his test, and then complained after using one, that the bowl is always dirty.
It's also why I hardly ever sell two Gerber pressure assist toilets to anyone.
Once people have them in their home, you can't keep fooling them.
On paper, it may make sense to think that looking at one side of the building will tell you everything.
But trust me Pexman, if you are in the back alley looking through the garbage container for todays dinner, that's not the same experience that we get going through the front door.
It's true, that we pay a little more then you do, but we also get seated comfortably, the food is prepared for us, and they take the dishes away.
We don't have to clean up afterwords.
Wow! What a concept!

it was the analogy i was pointing out. in the laws of logic a wrong analogy makes a statement a fallacy.

Cookie
11-09-2009, 10:23 PM
I wish I had read this forum before purchasing not one, but TWO new Kohler Cimarron toilets. I had both bathrooms remodeled and decided to upgrade to a new, sleek toilet. Yes, they look nice, but the flush does NOT clean the bowl. There are whole areas of the bowl that the water jets don't even touch. There is no swirl, just sort of a downward stream that hits about half the bowl. My 15 year old American Standard basic toilets that I removed were far superior. I am just very angry at the poor performance. I dread the day that a guest in my home uses the toilet and discovers that the "evidence" of their use is left all over the bowl. Sorry, I don't know how else to put it. This toilet simply doesn't offer much but good looks.


Oh, yes I got one too. And, eventually it is going to be outa here. Terry recommends a Toto and that will be the next toilet. I suggest those needing a new toilet to listen to his advice about toilets and plumbing needs.

It is just very frustrating when something which should seem as basic as a toilet can be a pain in the ass. It may sound funny, but it really is miserable when they just don't work or work well enough.

achutch
11-10-2009, 06:36 AM
I also had a Cimarron toilet and was very disappointed in it because it didn't rinse and it clogged occasionally. Thanks to this site, the Cimarron was replaced with a Toto Drake. That was just over 4 years ago. To date, I have never had a problem with the flush or any of the parts inside the tank -- still has the original flapper and Quiet Fill cap, even with the chloramine in the water.

My Toto does not have the Sanigloss, but it rinses far better than the Cimarron did, and in my opinion flushes better than any of the old 3.5 gallon toilets that were there before.

achutch

jacksan
11-26-2009, 10:38 AM
Are your Cimarrons Class 5 or Class 6 ?
Are they 1.28 gpf or 1.6 gpf ??

Without that info we don't know if we are comparing apples to apples.

Terry
11-26-2009, 10:45 AM
Without that info we don't know if we are comparing apples to apples.

The Kohler Class six rinses better then the Kohler class five.
But it's still lacking compared to other brands.

Since you are an engineer, I will put it this way.

The Class five left out all of the rinse holes at the back of the bowl.
Kohler's comment, was that the homeowner could "wax" the back of the bowl.

The Class six now has rinse holes 360 degrees around the bowl, but they are spaced so wide, that the water streams don't cover the entire bowl, they are thin water streaks running down the bowl with gaps in between.
This isn't rocket science.
Most toilet bowls rinse with water. Water cleans.
If the water doesn't touch the bowl, it doesn't clean.

The trapway on the five and the six has a sharp bend where it leaves the bowl.
Most plugs are there.

http://www.terrylove.com/images/trapway_toto_kohler.jpg
You will notice that the TOTO trapyway points the waste down the drain.
The Kohler trapway doesn't.

achutch
11-26-2009, 05:09 PM
Are your Cimarrons Class 5 or Class 6 ?
Are they 1.28 gpf or 1.6 gpf ??

Without that info we don't know if we are comparing apples to apples.

It was a Class 5. I bought it in 2004 based on info from the Kohler web site, and well before I discovered Terry's site. The rinse on the Class 5 was unacceptable, and so was the waste of the money that I spent on it. I limped with it for a year before I discovered Terry's site.

My Toto Drake, which replaced the Cimarron has been in place since 2005 has not been a disappointment. It doesn't plug, it rinses well, and it is of top quality with no defects. (My A S Cadet in the half bath also rinses well and doesn't clog. But you need to inspect the bowl in the store, because there are quality control issues with that brand, as many report here, plus I also experienced (2 bad bowls brought back to the store)).

In my case, both toilets do what I need them to do, and both are keepers.

achutch

cquan
12-02-2009, 05:47 PM
It seems like the Cimarron bowls aren't being molded/cast properly. I have returned THREE of these to Lowe's because they won't sit flat on the floor. Every one of them has rocked to some degree. I initially set them down without the wax ring just to make sure they fit properly and even bolted one down and it still rocked a bit. I know my floor is OK because I had it redone a few years ago. The original 3.5 gallon toilet was fine. Then I got a Jacuzzi Perfecta and the plumber had no problem. I actually removed and reset the Jacuzzi twice myself (when I thought I was installing a Kohler) and it would not rock. I've found out that the Kohlers I tried have some "ridges" or "support points" on the bottom that have been higher than the outer edges of the bowl. This is a no-brainer: the bowl WILL rock in these cases and WON"T SIT FLAT. I even went back to Lowes and opened a sealed box and PROVED to them that these were not cast right. This is easy, just turn the bowl over, then pass a straight edge across the bottom. If it stops or encounters resistance, then something isn't right. I called Kohler and they pretty much just blew me off. Too, bad, because I like the style and the ease of installation of the tank. BUT NOW, FORGET KOHLER. If they aren't willing to at least listen, then I'm going to another brand. I'm going to try the Cadet 3, which has gotten good reviews. I have talked to a very reputable plumber and he has had the same experience, so it's not just me ! Maybe Kohler will read this and DO SOMETHING !!

Lots to Learn
01-06-2010, 01:59 PM
I know running toilets are not a challenging question on this site, but I hope you'll have the patience to give me some suggestions. Brand new Kohler K-3489 toilet with Class Five flushing system installed last night is running. Water level looks okay (as does everything else). I think my next step is to check the fill valve for debris, correct? I can't imagine a leak around the flapper since it is new. Anyway, if so, how do I pop off the red cover to inspect the seal of the fill valve? Forgive me if it's obvious-- I'm very slow and very cautious, and also very tired (two steps fwd, one step back it seems).

BTW here's a video of the problem:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9ZmZo6Zim4

jadnashua
01-06-2010, 04:18 PM
WHere is the water level in the tank? If it never gets high enough to flow out the overflow tube, then it is indeed the flapper valve leaking (almost always, but there are a few other possibilities). If you shut the supply off, does the water level go down? My guess is yes. So, the flapper is defective. Kohler is my last choice of a toilet.

Hackney plumbing
01-06-2010, 05:37 PM
I know running toilets are not a challenging question on this site, but I hope you'll have the patience to give me some suggestions. Brand new Kohler K-3489 toilet with Class Five flushing system installed last night is running. Water level looks okay (as does everything else). I think my next step is to check the fill valve for debris, correct? I can't imagine a leak around the flapper since it is new. Anyway, if so, how do I pop off the red cover to inspect the seal of the fill valve? Forgive me if it's obvious-- I'm very slow and very cautious, and also very tired (two steps fwd, one step back it seems).

BTW here's a video of the problem:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9ZmZo6Zim4

One of two things. You could have a defective fill valve or there is trash under the seal that under the red cap. Turn the water off and disconnect the plastic rod with the phillips head screw on top of it that adjusts the water level up or down,it just snaps out. Then let the lever from the red cap drop into its natural down position and rotate the lever and the red cap counter clockwise.It should lift off now. Now check for debris and wash out as needed. Re-install in reverse order. If that doesn't work,replace the valve with the exact type....I'm not sure if that toilet requires a high refill rate for the bowl...if it does make sure you get a comparible ballcock for replacement. Preferably the original from the manufacturer since its new. That ballcock is made by Fluidmaster for kohler.

maddog
01-06-2010, 05:56 PM
I think there is a one year warranty on the toilet. The fluidmaster fill valve should be covered. You can give Kohler a call at 1-800-4KOHLER (1-800-456-4537).

Lots to Learn
01-07-2010, 07:05 AM
Well, there you go. I was sure it couldn't be the flapper, and it's the flapper. The water level drops to the flapper and stays there. Thank you for the suggestions! (I never could get that fill valve cap off.) How ridiculous is that on a new toilet?

Yeah, I picked up on how generally reviled Kohler is on this website, but that wasn't until after I ordered it (to match the Kohler vessel sink).

But I really can't complain. Hypothetically speaking imagine that it ended up being free because of an unrelated flaw in the glaze. (Which is also why in this hypothetical situation I would need to fix this myself-- hypothetically speaking it would have been "scrapped in the field.")

And I figure that even with its flaws it still has got to be better than what the high-volume builder put in 18 years ago.

jadnashua
01-07-2010, 09:29 AM
I haven't opened up a Fluidmaster valve for awhile, but they used to require you to press down, and turn 1/16-turn or so, then it came apart. Once apart, the seal could be replaced. The instructions should be on their website. Make sure to turn the water supply off first!

Gary Swart
01-07-2010, 03:14 PM
I'm glad you found the problem and that it is simple to fix. It is true that the Kohler toilets do not rate very high with most of the regulars on this forum. It seems that there are sharp bends in the trap way that create a clog potential. Perhaps you will be lucky and not have this problem, but if you do have clogs you will soon get tired of plunging and the cheap price will not look so wonderful:p Then you may want look at the Toto line of toilets.

Terry
01-07-2010, 03:23 PM
The flush valve?

Darn,
The first thing we normally check is the flapper or flush valve.
If that's leaking, then of course the fill valve is going to keep topping off the tank.

The slight drip as it nears the shuoff point, is part of the anti-siphon, and is nothing to worry about.

maddog
01-07-2010, 08:16 PM
The video shows water squirting out of the top of the fill valve, which looks a little strange. Not the normal place for the fill valve to release water. Maybe very high water pressure or a faulty fill valve? But if a new flapper fixes the problem - that's great to know ...

Lots to Learn
01-08-2010, 06:13 AM
Oh goody, now I get to learn all about repairing/replacing the flapper and/or the flush valve. Which was the main problem with the toilet I pulled.

But before I get to that, I'm going to see about changing my order for two K-11456 toilets (that I picked out with my hypothetical credit for this toilet) to a couple of Totos.

I do have to give credit to Kohler for very promptly crediting the cost of this ($500) toilet when we discovered the glaze flaw (which was staring back up at us when we opened the box) which is why I ordered two more Kohlers, but this new flusher/flapper issue is dissolving my resolve to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Lots to Learn
01-09-2010, 09:33 AM
Here's where I'm at: The water level recedes to the interface of the flapper and the rim of the flush valve. The flapper has no flaws that I can see, nor does the rim. So I can't figure out where it is not sealing/why it is leaking. I note that the inside of the flush valve feels gritty, so I tried to wipe everything in case debris was impeding the seal. Didn't work. And it still feels gritty.

I know I could first try replacing the flapper, but I really don't see a problem with it, and I'd like very much to pinpoint the source of the problem. Ultimately will I have to replace the entire (new) flush valve assembly anyway?

If anyone can suggest further tests I can do or things to look for I'd be grateful.

BTW I changed my order from two K-11456s to two Toto Drakes with SanaGloss-- can I get an amen?

Terry
01-09-2010, 10:00 AM
BTW I changed my order from two K-11456s to two Toto Drakes with SanaGloss-- can I get an amen?

Amen!



I note that the inside of the flush valve feels gritty, so I tried to wipe everything in case debris was impeding the seal. Didn't work. And it still feels gritty.

On the repair, I would try the flapper first.

The inside of the flush valve?
The inside won't matter, but the face where it seals will matter.

jadnashua
01-09-2010, 01:34 PM
The seat where the flapper valve seals should be smooth. I can't see it sealing, regardless of the flapper valve if it is gritty; the rubber just isn't that flexible. That, to me anyways, is a factory defect. Now, not being there and feeling it myself, I may be off course here.

Lots to Learn
01-11-2010, 01:52 PM
Here's what solved the running toilet problem. It has this adjustable float body that I don't quite understand. If anyone who is familiar with these would care to explain that, that would be great!

jadnashua
01-11-2010, 03:11 PM
The factory flapper valve is calibrated to close after the designated amount of water runs down the drain. Keep in mind that each toilet is a little different. The water used to flush consists of both that in the tank, and what's in the bowl. So, you need a means on a generic replacement to calibrate how much water gets dumped before the flapper drops down to close it off won't be at the same tank level (since each bowl gets refilled separately). Essentially none of the new toilets empty the tank when you flush. the adjustable part lets you make it close faster or slower. Now, getting it set to close at the manufacturer's specified level may take some trial and error. Too quick, lousy flush. Too slow, waste a bunch of water each time.

stretch
01-20-2010, 07:52 PM
WOW!!! I bought the same toilet (k-3489) and the exact same thing happened to mine. It was so annoying hearing the water running ever 30 minutes. Suprisingly somehow it was the flapper that caused the problem on mine as well. I also had an issue with how terrible the toilet was at cleaning the bowl. Kohler has given me a voucher/credit for another toilet but I don't want a Kohler toitet. Has anyone had any experience with the K-11456. Consumerreports rated it pretty well but who knows...

Gary Swart
01-20-2010, 08:26 PM
Virtually every toilet CR rates highly proves to be dog and is frequently discontinued fairly soon after.

Terry
01-20-2010, 09:33 PM
WOW!!! I bought the same toilet (k-3489) and the exact same thing happened to mine. It was so annoying hearing the water running ever 30 minutes. Suprisingly somehow it was the flapper that caused the problem on mine as well. I also had an issue with how terrible the toilet was at cleaning the bowl.

CR likes the Cimarron and the Gerber Ultraflush.
Between those two toilets, they got nine listings on their report.
I have a hard time selling either.

The TOTO Dalton sells for less then the Cimarron, and works better.
The Toto Drake works even better then that.
The Dual flush Gerber quits after six months.

If the toilet is a Cimarron, it's a Cimarron. They have tons of numbers for the Cimarron.

heymatey
05-21-2010, 06:30 AM
Admittedly it's only been 3 or 4 months, but our Class 6 Cimarron has been great: easy to install (love that the tank bolts don't go through the tank itself, which eliminates a major leak spot), amazing flush performance for the water used, nice water spot, quiet and attractive.

Wish there was a way of seeing a toilet "in-person, in action" before buying. Totos are hard to find around here (Southwest CT) for some reason, and the baffling array of choices for the Drake alone is ridiculous!

Terry
05-21-2010, 07:37 AM
Yes Heymatey,
In America some hate choices. At least a Friend of mine from the Czech Republic complained about choices in American too.
She wished she was back home, where you didn't have to decide what to have for lunch.
You would go to the cafeteria and the meal would have been prepared.
She said all these "choices" tired her out.
Yeah, real bummer having choices for some people.
But some people do like the choice to buy American. You can still do that with Toto.
1/3 of the Toto I sell is made in the USA, it's nice to have choice.

CR lists the Cimarron five times on their report, is that too many of the same toilet to list?
You can get the Cimarron in two boxes, or in one box, that makes two Cimarrons right there.
Then you can get round, wow! another choice right there. How 'bout elongated, wow! another one, it's getting to be too much for some Americans to handle. At least they make them in Mexico.

Me, I love that we have choice in America.
That's why many have left Europe and it's traditions for a life with more opportunity and choice.

Jetta Whirlpool Baths
05-21-2010, 01:08 PM
Yes Heymatey,
In America some hate choices. At least a Friend of mine from the Czech Republic complained about choices in American too.
She wished she was back home, where you didn't have to decide what to have for lunch.
You would go to the cafeteria and the meal would have been prepared.
She said all these "choices" tired her out.
Yeah, real bummer having choices for some people.
But some people do like the choice to buy American. You can still do that with Toto.
1/3 of the Toto I sell is made in the USA, it's nice to have choice.

CR lists the Cimarron five times on their report, is that too many of the same toilet to list?
You can get the Cimarron in two boxes, or in one box, that makes two Cimarrons right there.
Then you can get round, wow! another choice right there. How 'bout elongated, wow! another one, it's getting to be too much for some Americans to handle. At least they make them in Mexico.

Me, I love that we have choice in America.
That's why many have left Europe and it's traditions for a life with more opportunity and choice.

My snark-meter just exploded on this post. :D

associatebroker
06-03-2010, 01:26 PM
I just purchased 3 Cimarron class 6 toilets, and after installation, discovered that the 1.28 gpf seems dismal compared to the 1.6 gpf toilets replaced. Yes, if I hold the handle down, the toilet flushes with the desired force, but I'd rather just press the handle normally.

Does anyone know of a down and dirty conversion that will give me a full 1.6 flush with the 1.28 model? There just has to be a way to make the canister stay open longer... automatically.

Watch out for Lowe's salespeople too. I was told explicitly that the Cimarron class six would allow me to adjust between 1.28 and 1.6 gpf. Apparently he meant by adjusting the time one must hold the handle down!

Thanks!

Terry
06-03-2010, 01:28 PM
I don't believe you can adjust it.

cpalady
09-07-2010, 10:18 AM
I've had the Cimmaron for 4 months now, and I have mixed feelings about it's performance.

The Cimmaron has no problem swallowing the charmin or the Pampers, altho it does have a major issue with the bowl.
-E

Please tell me you really don't flush pampers down the toilet.

robertco
10-17-2010, 01:13 AM
We installed this Series 5 toilet a few yrs. ago, after seeing the commercial on TV. For the first few flushes, it did do better (didn't clog) than standard toilets. It utiliizes larger tank and bowl waste removal holes to get the job done. However we discovered that, within a few wks., it began clogging up just like the old toilet. But, when this toilet clogs, it's considerably harder to clear. A plunger rarely works. We usually have to use an electric "snake" to clear it.
Also, the water just flushes in one big, straight "clug", but does not swirl for a few seconds (as in a standard toilet) to pick up any waste matter and toilet paper that maybe have become lodged on the sides of the bowl. With this toilet, after the flush, they are left behind and won't be picked up by future swirling water cycles without your "help". We thought it would be great, but we feel that this toilet does not perform as the commercial indicates. Our recommendation is that you research/try some other brand, or stick with what you have.

hijacker7
03-18-2011, 06:53 AM
I just purchased 3 Cimarron class 6 toilets, and after installation, discovered that the 1.28 gpf seems dismal compared to the 1.6 gpf toilets replaced. Yes, if I hold the handle down, the toilet flushes with the desired force, but I'd rather just press the handle normally.

Does anyone know of a down and dirty conversion that will give me a full 1.6 flush with the 1.28 model? There just has to be a way to make the canister stay open longer... automatically.

Watch out for Lowe's salespeople too. I was told explicitly that the Cimarron class six would allow me to adjust between 1.28 and 1.6 gpf. Apparently he meant by adjusting the time one must hold the handle down!

Thanks!

I have the same issue with the Cimarron 1.28 I just installed. If it cannot be adjusted, can the flushing mechanism be replaced with one from the 1.6 Cimarron?

Mike2187
03-25-2011, 12:09 AM
I have had no clogs with the kohler cimmaron. You can flush half a roll of toilet paper down that thing with half of a used pizza and still no clogs.

maddog
03-25-2011, 10:21 AM
Same here - not a single clog in 5 years. It is true about the lack of adequate bowl wash, but we still are on the original flapper and the toilet has been entirely maintenance-free. We're happy with it - just need to keep a toilet brush near by.

kezug
04-17-2011, 07:44 PM
I have a Cimarron® Comfort Height® elongated 1.28 gpf toilet - K-11813 (just installed today) and it seems to have adequate bowl rinse. (certainly much better than that video 5 years ago on the first page).

I purchased this from Lowes and have found that the tank does not sit square on the base. Further viewing... I find that the base where the tank rests on is not level almost like a mold defect. Is this a fluke, should I return it? I was able to kind of shim one side (using shims for toilet bases) on the underside of the tank to get it more level (still off by 1/4").

jadnashua
04-18-2011, 07:54 AM
If the thing is not level (assuming the floor is), then it is defective. That is one reason why professional plumbers don't like to deal with that toilet...too many defects. Then, they have to install two (or more) for free...no way to make money. If you get a good one, it will work fine. Your chances of that are lower than with some other brands.

kezug
04-18-2011, 07:24 PM
Damn am I mad.

So, from earlier posts, you know that I had an issue with a Kohler Cimarron. The tank would not sit level as the base part that it sits on, had a weird defective bow to it. There was no way I could accept this. Back to Lowes it went.

My wife did the return and tried to check everything out before bringing a 2nd Cimarron home. I pull it out of the box, sit it on the garage floor and it teeters!!!!! I also notice the Kohler logo is crooked.

How is this acceptable from a company like Kohler! This is no rinky dink operation here. These are supposedly high end products! Where is the quality anymore!

So, I take it back to Lowes and they give me a hard time about the return. I am 41, but look in like I could be in the 20's. So the guys are asking me all these questions as if I didnt know what I was doing. I pointed out that the inside feet extended past the rim...the guy (an older guy in his 60's) was telling me that I have to put a wax ring on it first to level it. Sorry, but I had no patience...I had to demand that I get my refund now and that I dont have to further justify my return.

I was livid!:mad:

Should I contact Lowes or Kohler to complain?

Can someone help me get a toilet from Home Depot, Lowes, *M*n*a*r*ds*? I cant special order one or deal with any plumbing supply houses (as I am not a contractor)....which of the big box stores sells a nice toilet that works and is of quality?

Billsoxs
06-22-2011, 08:56 PM
I just purchased 3 Cimarron class 6 toilets, and after installation, discovered that the 1.28 gpf seems dismal compared to the 1.6 gpf toilets replaced. Yes, if I hold the handle down, the toilet flushes with the desired force, but I'd rather just press the handle normally.

Does anyone know of a down and dirty conversion that will give me a full 1.6 flush with the 1.28 model? There just has to be a way to make the canister stay open longer... automatically.

Watch out for Lowe's salespeople too. I was told explicitly that the Cimarron class six would allow me to adjust between 1.28 and 1.6 gpf. Apparently he meant by adjusting the time one must hold the handle down!

Thanks!


Would it be possible to replace the flush tube valve with a standard flapper valve system? The tube closure system is terrible.

Billsoxs
06-22-2011, 09:14 PM
I have the same issue with the Cimarron 1.28 I just installed. If it cannot be adjusted, can the flushing mechanism be replaced with one from the 1.6 Cimarron?


I think so - at least if you wander thru the Kohler website you will find that the flush mechanism is very similar with many of the same parts. I have been thinking about doing this - or replacing it with a standard flapper valve. I like the thought of the flapper.

raiderace
06-25-2011, 05:37 PM
I just bought and installed a Cimarron , The Complete Solution Elongated 1.6 GPF or less, Class Six(don't know what that means) Model #k11465.
This site almost had me go for a Toto Drake or similar, prices around me were $200 more then the Cimarron.
I could grab the Cimarron at the HD 5 minutes from my house. The closes Toto dealer to me that had a reasonable price was a good 45 minutes away. Those two things swayed me to purchase the Cimarron. The install went really well no issues. It sat level and I really like the fact that the bolts that attach the tank to the bowl don't go through the tank, one less leak possibility.

All in all it looks good seems to work good but it's only been one day. If I have any issues I will post the info.

Just a quick thanks I learned a lot about toilets mostly from reading through this site.

a2058
10-10-2011, 07:20 PM
First post here, just got a cimarron K-11451 from HD, installed, and had some fill valve issue (water slowly leaks). Changed this out to the fluidmaster 400A (fit no problems) for about $7 and it's good and holding. So far I agree with the bowl cleaning issue, but MUCH better than the contractor grade Kohler it replaced. 1.28gpf seems to work, I use Charmin Ultra, I think it makes a difference which brand/type of toilet paper you use as far as the cloggings go.

I am getting a Toto drake Eco for the upstairs bathroom though after reading the reviews...

mcmoyer
07-07-2012, 01:31 PM
Man, I'm wondering if I have the same toilet as others do. When we built the house, I specified to the GC & plumber that we needed good flushing toilets. Mine are model #4634aa 1.6 gallon and are from around 2005. I have at least three clogging issues a month between them. The most frustrating thing is that I have to snake them all the time since the elongated bowl won't let you use a plunger....at least not without soaking yourself in some nice brown water :(

It seems that mine are always getting clogged on the lip of the bottom of the trap. Still scratching my head over why they put a lip at the bottom of the trap.

jadnashua
07-07-2012, 02:12 PM
A well performing toilet has a nice clean, smooth trapway. Obviously, yours don't conform to that premise. It takes more than a well designed trapway, though, which includes good bowl wash and reliable siphon action.

wjcandee
07-07-2012, 02:14 PM
I just bought and installed a Cimarron , The Complete Solution Elongated 1.6 GPF or less, Class Six(don't know what that means) Model #k11465.
This site almost had me go for a Toto Drake or similar, prices around me were $200 more then the Cimarron.


Just a quick note that Terry sells the Drake and Eco Drake on sale for less than HD cells the Cimarron, so Toto's prices can be competitive if you shop around.

wjcandee
07-07-2012, 02:21 PM
Man, I'm wondering if I have the same toilet as others do. When we built the house, I specified to the GC & plumber that we needed good flushing toilets. Mine are model #4634aa 1.6 gallon and are from around 2005. I have at least three clogging issues a month between them. The most frustrating thing is that I have to snake them all the time since the elongated bowl won't let you use a plunger....at least not without soaking yourself in some nice brown water :(

It seems that mine are always getting clogged on the lip of the bottom of the trap. Still scratching my head over why they put a lip at the bottom of the trap.

Just a thought that there are some very good prices out there these days on Toto Drake and EcoDrake (not Drake II) toilets, which are exceptionally-reliable workhorses that look good. If you look elsewhere on this site, Terry has a sale on Cotton White Eco Drakes with elongated bowl for $219. That's a sale price, and you're a little far from him to go pick one up, but the point is that the prices on these toilets can be very competitive if you look around and call around, even more so if you horse-trade a little bit.

I'm the last guy that you would think was capable of installing a toilet, but I have now done three in our house. It's actually a pretty-fun project, and you should find it a fairly-straightforward project in a 2005-vintage home. All the little challenges to an easy install (like floors that have been built up around the flange, non-standard flange distance from wall, etc.), probably aren't going to be present in your case. It should be what I've heard referred to as a "pop and drop" -- pop the box and drop the toilet on the new wax. There are a number of good videos online about how to install a new toilet, and if you're up to it, you can eliminate this headache for less than $700 for three toilets. (You'll need to buy new wax and recommended new water supply hose and closet bolts.)

Just a thought...

brucet99
07-15-2012, 01:38 PM
Thanks for putting up all of this information.

I see the good reports about Toto UltramaxII and Drake II, but both of them are longer than we would like. We have to replace a Kohler Wellworth (whose unglazed and narrow trapway has developed into a clog-o-matic feature after 20 years) that measures 26 1/2" in length and its front edge is about flush with the adjacent 2'-4" doorway in a smallish bathroom.

Either of the Totos mentioned above measure 28 5/16" long, according to their specs, so they would tend to obstruct access.
Kohler Cimarron comfort height RF is 27 1/4" long, according to its spec sheet; only 3/4" longer than the existing Wellworth.
But the actual effect of length depends on how far they extend forward of the bolt holes. Cimarron specs show length split 10 1/2" and 16 3/4" either side of the horn. I can't find the split for Toto.

In your judgement, is the Cimarron flushing ability and non-clogging performance comparable to the above-mentioned Toto's?
Some posters have mentioned problems with Kohler's new "Aqua Piston" flush valve. Are those just statistical outliers or early glitches, or is there a known problem with that flush valve?
I see no mention of any SanaGloss equivalent in Kohler's promotional information. Is the Toto system enough better at cleaning the bowl that it might be worth putting up with the extra length?

Thanks

Terry
07-15-2012, 01:57 PM
Normally a toilet sets out about 3/4" of an inch from the back wall on a standard 12" rough.
The Koher bowls have improved their bowl wash over the last few years. The Piston flushvalve is fairly new, so it may be too soon to have much data on it.

brucet99
07-15-2012, 02:08 PM
Thanks for the quick response.
And your opinion about Cimarron non-clogging compared to Toto?

Oops, cancel this. I just found post #92

wjcandee
07-15-2012, 03:25 PM
Thanks for putting up all of this information.

I see the good reports about Toto UltramaxII and Drake II, but both of them are longer than we would like.

Cimarron specs show length split 10 1/2" and 16 3/4" either side of the horn. I can't find the split for Toto.



You mention the Ultramax II and the Drake II. You should also consider the workhorse plain ol' Drake.

As Terry points out, the Drake spec sheet says that the round Drake sits about 3/4" from the wall on a 12" rough-in. In reality, it appears to me that it's closer to what the spec sheet on the CST744E (elongated Eco Drake) says: 1-1/8". Have you measured your rough-in? Is it a precise 12" or is it off a little (or is it 10" or 14")? The original Drake can adapt well to a rough-in that's as much an an inch shorter than 12".

The round-front Drake CST743E is 26 3/8" back to front. Using my tape measure, it is VERY approximately 10 7/8" behind and 15 1/2" in front of the center of the closet flange. I'm eyeballing, so this is very rough, but it should give you an idea of the general proportions. If you need it more accurate than that, I am happy to get out the level and really do it right. Spec sheet: http://www.totousa.com/Portals/0/ProductDownloads/SS-00354,%20CST743E,%20V.05.pdf

The elongated Drake CST744E is 28" back to front. I have one of those as well and can try to measure the split for you if you want. [Edit: The distance behind seems to be about the same, so you can do the math on the front.] Spec sheet: http://www.totousa.com/Portals/0/ProductDownloads/SS-00215,%20CST744EG,%20V.04.pdf

PS Like everyone else, we love our Drakes.

GoKohlerGo
08-11-2012, 06:52 PM
I just bought a kohler cimarron toilet, and am VERY happy with it. It flushes great and has a very good bowl wash. Never clogged or struggled with anything it flushed. No problems yet, don't think there will be in the near future with this thing. I don't really like toto at all, but I think American Standard is ok.

Mona Lisa Abbott
08-17-2013, 02:26 PM
Did you overlook the pipe? I'm not sure if your plumber checked already ... but it would seem it's your pipe that has the clog. Sometimes tree roots can get in them way down the line, and of course sometimes people accidently put stuff in the pipes that cannot be cleaned other than snaking/breaking them out. Good luck.



http://www.terrylove.com/wc/kohler/cimarron_inside_tank.jpg

I am on my third Kohler Cimarron Comfort Height toilet. We decided to replace an old American Standard that was in my son's bathroom and was clogging every week. My plumber recommended the Kohler Cimarron. The first one he put in was the round seat. 2 hrs after it was installed it clogged! My son was able to plunge it. We called the plumber who was shocked. The next day my husband tried the toilet, not only did it clog it flooded the bathroom! We were not able to un clog it.The next morning we saw that the flood had caused our kitchen ceiling to buckle! The plumber had to come and snake the toilet.We decided that we had a dud. The plumber could not replace it until the Kohler rep got back to him which took a week. Well we then got toilet # 2( same toilet).
We decided not to fix the ceiling until we were sure that the toilet worked. Well it was good for a week and then yup another un-plungable clog! Plummer came back snaked again and this time we got an upgrade - the elongated bowl. Kohler decided that the whole batch at the plumbing supply store must have been bad. Still not fixing the ceiling yet. Well # 3 is going on a week and a half and tonight - yup you guessed it - clogs again! We were able to plunge it.
I am at wits end - I don't know what to do. This toilet was sold as one I would never have to plunge.
I am calling the plumber back tomorrow but I don't know what to do. Do I ask for a better model? If so which one? Have you ever heard of anything like this?

Thanks for your time.
Sun, 18 Dec 2005
Susan H

Timothy LaDuca
08-20-2013, 03:52 PM
About a year ago I installed a Cimarron (15409-0) canister flush toilet. The toilet being replaced would clog if you tried to flush anything larger than a pea. I am amazed by how quick it flushes (2 seconds?) (nice to make the waste dissappear lickety-split) and how little water this toilet uses and it always flushes good no matter what or how much I throw at it. It says up to 1.6g flush, I guess that is if you hold the handle down. I think a regular press and release is just a little over a gallon.
The problem is there just isn't much rinsing action. The bowl flushes clean but gets ring around the rim very quickly and also there is a spot above the jet that just won't come clean now matter how hard I try.
Also very affordable. One minor complaint, the footprint of the toilet is quite large, there is not enough "toe space" (for guys standing up, ya know).

wjcandee
08-20-2013, 05:03 PM
It says up to 1.6g flush, I guess that is if you hold the handle down. I think a regular press and release is just a little over a gallon.

Well, the model you mentioned is a 1.28gpf toilet. Perhaps the bowl says "up to" 1.6 because they are using the bowl for both the 1.28 and the 1.6. I don't know.

However, if you hold the handle down, you are going to use a lot more than 1.6. (Remember, the gallonage per flush is the total water dispensed from the wall connection, including bowl refill, from the time you pull the flush handle until the time the fill valve shuts off.)

Starwarsith88
09-04-2013, 07:16 PM
We have recently installed a 2013 Kohler Cimarron CLASS 5 and what an upgrade! It replaced a 2000's Kohler Wellworth with Ingenium Flush Technology. It is VERY quiet, comfort height. Also please be aware that if you are going to get a round front cimarron, it is going to be Class 5. And I tell ya, the class 5 has a great bowl rinse! After 2011 they redesigned the class 5 and it is a lot better! Here are some photos of the new toilet and a video I made. All of owners of a Kohler Cimarron, you gotta love them! :)
2145921460

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9Vl38pncSU

Tootsie
03-25-2014, 10:57 AM
I came to this forum during a google search on changing a part on my Cimarron toilet. I saw quite a few posts on the toilet forum touting Toto and thumbing down the Cimarron, so I thought I'd register to give my two cents.

We've had our two Cimarrons for a few years now. Both installed within months of each other. The date stamped on the inside of the tank of the toilet most used is 3/24/10. Both are round bowls, chair height.

Both replaced Kohler Wellworths and with the Wellworths we had to make sure a plunger was nearby. Since installing these two Cimarron's, we've never had to plunge either one. (Just fact-checked this with hubby!)

As far as quality of flush-cleaning, we may need to swish with the toilet brush on occasion after certain types of solid waste flushes. Is that a deal breaker for us? No. It's not a big deal.

We had considered Toto, although the price seemed a bit steep. When my neighbor shared they had a Cimarron and were pleased, we decided to go with the same and have had no regrets.

We nearly always go for quality with our purchases, believing you get what you pay for, thus spending more upfront is well worth it. For the most part that mantra has held true. And I believe it has for the Cimarron.