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View Full Version : Sign of the times. HE washing machine odor



jimbo
08-12-2012, 12:36 PM
I believe that on this forum and elsewhere, the subject of odor in new ( HE ) washing machines has come up. Plumbers may even get a service call, with the homeowner thinking it is a drain problem.

Notice that TIDE and others now sell a dedicated WASHING MACHINE CLEANER product! Imagine that...you have to WASH your washing machine!

The manufactures more or less concede the issue. The problem is they don't use enough water to rinse all the dirt and residue out of the machine, and front loaders because they are sealed get mold/mildew on the door seal.

chefwong
08-12-2012, 01:37 PM
Soap is the issue as well.
Front loaders do need front loading *less sudsing* detergent. I even cut my down by 1/3 even when using HE.

It's also good practice to run more frequent HOT washers with bleach and a heavy load with front loaders. This helps to get maximum water fill to clean as much as the *tub* as possible.

A forethought, as some machines are semi-tweakable, like my Miele, but if you can get in the service menu, increase as much water usage as you can IMO

DonL
08-12-2012, 01:42 PM
I have heard of people using white Vinegar for the problem.

You can not get something for nothing and HE appliances are no exception.

I will stick with old school. It works very well if you can keep your Tit out of the ringer.

Chad Schloss
08-12-2012, 06:38 PM
i've has zero problems with my LG washer. 6 years now and no smell. I make sure to drain the water from the little hose at the bottom of the machine and clean the filter 2x a year and I make the last load that I wash whites with bleach.

If people would do a 'tub clean' cycle as indicated in the owner's manual (a wash with bleach only) this would be a non issue. This is just another marketing ploy to make some money.

Tom Sawyer
08-12-2012, 07:14 PM
My wife uses one of these. Never have had any odor problems.


17060

Runs with bison
08-12-2012, 08:16 PM
This isn't really a problem unless the user doesn't pay attention or the installation is a poor one. First and foremost rule is leave the HE front loader's detergent tray and door open between loads. This allows is to dry out. You can also do the tub cleaning cycle (my wife has done it once. I haven't, instead just checking/draining the drain filter basket once or twice a year.) My in-laws don't even leave the doors open and theirs seems to do fine. If the location of the washer is such that leaving the doors open is a problem, then I wouldn't recommend a front loader.

As I've related before the old style top loaders could develop a bad odor as well. I had that problem with a top loader when I lived in Georgia and the utility room was outdoors. A load was forgotten for a day or two once in mid-summer...and that washing machine stunk to high heaven despite various high temp & vinegar washes, mildewcide, etc. I finally cured it by disassembling the tub and connecting hoses and cleaning wetted surfaces by hand. An HE front loader would likely find this sort of outdoor install challenging in a humid & hot climate.

However, the lower volume of water used in an HE means that the resultant washing temp (at least on "hot") is lower because there is a higher mass ratio of tub and clothes to water. Additionally, there is the not inconsequential dead volume of cold water in the pipe. That can make for less effective mildew killing where it is being relied on in hot loads. I doubt this matters much on "warm" because there is some temp. control being done. So for "hot" wash runs it is best to run a nearby tap until the line warms, then start the load. Additionally, there is usually an option for extra water and/or an extra rinse.

If the towels aren't coming out sufficiently fresh from the washer in hot loads, kick up the water heater temp 5 F or so (assuming it isn't limited by a tempering valve at the water heater.)

Our LG front loader is three and a half years old, in-laws Maytag front loader is about 6 years old. I don't miss the old top loader at all. And I like the savings on water/sewer and electric (primarily drying cost which doesn't show in the yellow sticker) from the HE. In fact, I'm at about break even on the cost of the washer with utility savings already.

chefwong
08-12-2012, 08:22 PM
Vinegar AFAIK is not good on the rubber in the washer.

I'm not sure on the various makes, but on mine, just to keep things in check, we run the whites on custom Extra Hot. In the *custom* setting, hot or extra hot, the water is maintained via the washers heater

jadnashua
08-12-2012, 08:29 PM
My Samsung has a silver ion disinfection option (it's supposedly good for about 1000 washes before you disolve the whole silver bar and have to replace it)...I run that on towels and underwear. It's supposed to kill close to 100% of bacteria and mold spores. I also leave the door open during the last dryer cycle, or overnight, whichever is required to ensure things are dry inside. It spins fast enough so that there's little moisture left except right around the door and seal and with that open, it dries pretty quickly. So far, it's odor free.

chefwong
08-13-2012, 04:52 AM
Unfortunately, there are probably alot more *gunky* washers that one will probably ever know. Take a bright flashlight, peel back the rubber gasket and then shine it around the drum. The telltale sign would be the very minute you peel back the gasket, but also looking at the outer drum to see whether it's full of black buildup or not. One would never know just by looking at the gasket from the *front view*.

Cookie
08-13-2012, 06:59 AM
People just don't realize how badly they stink.

So, if hot water isn't used frequently enough, and some care given to the machine, bacteria & mold will grow. Tide is profitting by people's ignorance, which is huge.

You just can't wash in cold water all the time, not clothing or your body. Once in a while, you got to care more and use hot water. Some makes require it more than others, like the way the front loaders are made.

BobL43
08-13-2012, 07:10 AM
i've has zero problems with my LG washer. 6 years now and no smell. I make sure to drain the water from the little hose at the bottom of the machine and clean the filter 2x a year and I make the last load that I wash whites with bleach.

If people would do a 'tub clean' cycle as indicated in the owner's manual (a wash with bleach only) this would be a non issue. This is just another marketing ploy to make some money.

Same, here ed zachery. For what ed zachery means, you can Google it.

But, my wife does buy and use that product I think is called Affresh every so often. MY LG front loader is now 4 years old, no stinko.

BobL43
08-13-2012, 07:11 AM
Who turns the crank on yours Don?:p

Chad Schloss
08-13-2012, 08:19 AM
"For what ed zachery means, you can Google it."

I used to knew ed zachery :) I also knew some ting wong years ago :)

Hairyhosebib
08-14-2012, 01:10 AM
I have an LG front loader. First year model. I leave the door open. There is a lip in the door gasket. If you pull it forward at the bottom there is all kinds of gunk that builds up there. I have thought about getting a spray bottle that will spray a fine stream and filling it with bleach and water.

Runs with bison
08-14-2012, 10:56 AM
I have an LG front loader. First year model. I leave the door open. There is a lip in the door gasket. If you pull it forward at the bottom there is all kinds of gunk that builds up there. I have thought about getting a spray bottle that will spray a fine stream and filling it with bleach and water.

What was the first model year of the LG?

My LG has a drain hole in the door gasket, probably to prevent what you are seeing. The instructions say to wipe the gasket, but we stopped doing it when we realized it wasn't necessary. Leaving the door open has been sufficient.

DonL
08-14-2012, 05:47 PM
I do not use Bleach in my washer.

I worked on washers for years and see the harm that bleach can do.

People are getting lazy now a days.

Many people are lucky to be able to waste water, when many have none to drink.

My grandmother started out washing in the river.

The water was cold but she had no mold.

BobL43
08-15-2012, 12:53 PM
The water was cold but she had no mold.

Don, your a poet and you know it. Just make sure to be careful of that wringer.

Bison, my 2009 LG also has the notch in the fasket, but my wife does wipe it dry and leaves the door open too. When we first bought these machines, there wer lots of complaint on the Internet about the smell, and how to avoid it. We listened, and it works. But still, my wife uses the Affresh anyway.

DonL
08-15-2012, 01:47 PM
Don, your a poet and you know it. Just make sure to be careful of that wringer.

Bison, my 2009 LG also has the notch in the fasket, but my wife does wipe it dry and leaves the door open too. When we first bought these machines, there wer lots of complaint on the Internet about the smell, and how to avoid it. We listened, and it works. But still, my wife uses the Affresh anyway.


Your Wife is smarter than most. You must have trained her well. We know she is the boss tho.

I got my arm in a wringer when I was small 5 years old or about, helping to wring out socks, guess I did not know when to let go.

My Mother had to hit the ringer release after it sucked me in, and the roller was spinning close to my shoulder and I was bleeding. My mother never let me help wash clothes after that, Well until I got older, then I had to dry them too.

I have always used a top loader because seeing the Cats go Round and Round would make me dizzy.

I don't know how Cookie can do it.

jimbo
08-15-2012, 06:41 PM
Your Wife is smarter than most. You must have trained her well. We know she is the boss tho.

I got my arm in a wringer when I was small 5 years old or about, helping to wring out socks, guess I did not know when to let go.

My Mother had to hit the ringer release after it sucked me in, and the roller was spinning close to my shoulder and I was bleeding. My mother never let me help wash clothes after that, Well until I got older, then I had to dry them too.

I have always used a top loader because seeing the Cats go Round and Round would make me dizzy.

I don't know how Cookie can do it.

Your signature thingy is on the blink....it says Mozilla/Netscape 5, and I am on IE

Runs with bison
08-15-2012, 08:14 PM
I got my arm in a wringer when I was small 5 years old or about, helping to wring out socks, guess I did not know when to let go.

My Mother had to hit the ringer release after it sucked me in, and the roller was spinning close to my shoulder and I was bleeding. My mother never let me help wash clothes after that, Well until I got older, then I had to dry them too.

We had an old wringer in the dairy barn when I was a kid. I did some of the disinfecting and milker cleaning at the time. Loved to play with the wringer when it was time to dry the wash rags. I don't recall having it anymore when I was a teen.

DonL
08-16-2012, 06:31 AM
Your signature thingy is on the blink....it says Mozilla/Netscape 5, and I am on IE


Must be those Stealth settings that you are using. Must be working.

bluebinky
08-16-2012, 10:25 AM
Your signature thingy is on the blink....it says Mozilla/Netscape 5, and I am on IE
It also has my IP address completely wrong -- we have hundreds, if not thousands, of computers going through that router to get to this site...

ballvalve
08-16-2012, 01:37 PM
Front loaders are a joke from smells to electronics. The cheapest top loader is ergonomically superior and you can leave the lid up to stop the spin cycle and get a free soak. Try that on front loader.

Chad Schloss
08-16-2012, 01:46 PM
Front loaders are a joke from smells to electronics. The cheapest top loader is ergonomically superior and you can leave the lid up to stop the spin cycle and get a free soak. Try that on front loader.

what???

you can't open the door on a front loader (it locks itself) so water can't spill out on you.. how is that dumb?

top loaders waste so much water.. i am not even an eco freak... we have both. upstairs is a conventional cheap top loader, and in the basement we have an lg front loader from 2006 or 2007. you can't even compare how the clothes come out, let alone how much water is not used with the lg..

bluebinky
08-16-2012, 03:26 PM
On a top loader, you can stick a screwdriver down the slot to override the spin lockout (at least you could a few years ago). Useful when you're mad at your younger brother...

My cool t-shirts last forever now with the front loader. The clothes do come out much better. Really nice.
Odor? It's in the garage so I haven't noticed.
Mold? Haven't noticed any yet.
Water savings? Haven't noticed -- water's relatively cheap. I guess I should care.
Detergent? Use a *lot* less, but probably costs the same or more than the old stuff overall.

The only problem I've had (LG) is that after I used bleach for the first time, the next load got really messed up. I take out the dispenser and rinse the bleach out now -- three years and going without a problem.

Runs with bison
08-17-2012, 12:16 AM
My cool t-shirts last forever now with the front loader. The clothes do come out much better. Really nice.

Yep, this is a big difference. I noticed it in the dryer right away, far less lint with each load. The front loaders don't grind down the clothing as rapidly. Clothes are lasting longer, making the economics a no brainer. The agitator trashed clothing/sheets from time to time. So far I've had exactly one incident with a pair of shorts getting stuck between the gasket and wearing a hole. They are still wearable though, looks like they were artificially "distressed."

ballvalve
08-17-2012, 12:42 PM
Several top loaders now meet the same water standards as front loaders - without all the things to go wrong.

DonL
08-17-2012, 01:24 PM
Several top loaders now meet the same water standards as front loaders - without all the things to go wrong.

I like the Top Loaders, there is nothing wrong with them.

Now a days people must like to feel that they are at the Washateria. Many people can not get their Belly close enough to load and un-load a top Loader.

Front Loaders work good when you don't have to pay for their maintenance. They also look good with the TV mounted above them.

Front Loaders may be easier for disabled folks to operate. That is a good thing.

BobL43
08-18-2012, 09:03 AM
I like the Top Loaders, there is nothing wrong with them.

Now a days people must like to feel that they are at the Washateria. Many people can not get their Belly close enough to load and un-load a top Loader.

Front Loaders work good when you don't have to pay for their maintenance. They also look good with the TV mounted above them.

Front Loaders may be easier for disabled folks to operate. That is a good thing.


I like my front loader, and I do not resemble any of those people you mention who must need them. Da Churse is yaws, ma fren.

bluebinky
08-18-2012, 09:32 AM
Overall, I like my front loader so far -- it's only three years old. Ask me in another 10 or so...

Cookie
08-18-2012, 09:57 AM
Your Wife is smarter than most. You must have trained her well. We know she is the boss tho.

I got my arm in a wringer when I was small 5 years old or about, helping to wring out socks, guess I did not know when to let go.

My Mother had to hit the ringer release after it sucked me in, and the roller was spinning close to my shoulder and I was bleeding. My mother never let me help wash clothes after that, Well until I got older, then I had to dry them too.

I have always used a top loader because seeing the Cats go Round and Round would make me dizzy.

I don't know how Cookie can do it.

Don, my mother had a wringer, and, like you, she got her arm stuck in it. It must come with the turf. I was young, but I remember that well. That washing machine when I think of it, brings back some really warm memories for me. She did her wash on Thursdays, and, I would come home from school, and come running in to see mom, and I could hear the " thump, thump, thump" before I hit the basement, so, I knew she was down there. Remember that sound? While down there, I would run about, always, busy, lol, and would run my hands up and down the feel of the pipes I loved so well. Years, later, I learned it was asbestos. :( The basement was loaded with it, some painted, some not. When she passed away, I got her washing machine, the wringer. I kept it in my garage, for I am a more modern girl, ( she used it til the day she died) but, on somedays, when I wanted to "hear" mom, I would do a load. I remember a girlfriend coming over when I was reminiscing with mom's wringer, and she said, " how old are you?" and, was amazed, I knew how to work it.

The wringer was in excellent shape, dad kept it that way, and I took very good care of it. Then one day, one of my neighbors came over with his mom, probably in her 80's. And, she saw the wringer in the garage, and, her little legs ran over to it, there she was touching it, and, then, the story came. Hers broke, and couldn't be fixed, it was all she used in her life.

That day, watching it being lifted into his truck, she hugged me, kissed me, and blessed me, :). I truly, never felt better in my life. She was great Don.

My cats watch the dogs go 'round & round, lol.

ballvalve
08-18-2012, 12:42 PM
The wringers did have a quick release lever to hit with your hopeful free hand before you came out looking like a donald duck cartoon.

A REAL laundry set up has a 6 foot table to the left of the top loader - slide the stuff in and sort there. Then we need a top loader DRYER, so its just one lift and a slide to the dry. Although a good tilt down door rig works about as well.

These porthole machines are just a gadget to fleece the housewives. Only useful in the kitchen of a European apartment.

Cookie
08-18-2012, 02:36 PM
The wringers did have a quick release lever to hit with your hopeful free hand before you came out looking like a donald duck cartoon.

A REAL laundry set up has a 6 foot table to the left of the top loader - slide the stuff in and sort there. Then we need a top loader DRYER, so its just one lift and a slide to the dry. Although a good tilt down door rig works about as well.

These porthole machines are just a gadget to fleece the housewives. Only useful in the kitchen of a European apartment.

When we bought our first house in the early's 80's we couldn't afford right away a washer & dryer, so I went to the laundry mat, and I guess I am weird but, I loved going there, lol. I read the bullentin boards the business cards, and sat in the sun nearer the window, read the paper, made friends, and sipped my coffee. It was also, a unique way to find prospective people wanting to buy a home. :) My parents surprised me one day, with a used setup of a washer & dryer found in the local paper. That set lasted a long, long time. It was just a top loader, which I still only want. I like the top loaders.

Years later we bought a second home. This house came with a laundry chute. One day, after moving in, I told the boys to throw down their dirty laundry. I had the door to the chute open, and my head sticking in it looking up, when the laundry including a toy car, came racing at my head at 90 mile per hour. But, I was quicker. I got my head out just in time. lol.

Then, we developed a clog in the chute. The clog was on the third floor, boys clothing. :) I told the boys to get a stick and push at the clothes as hard as possible to loosen it. They are very obedient kids and this time, along with the clothes came a stick shooting down the chute. I nearly, was missed by the stick. I learned a lesson, do not put your head in the chute, especially, if looking up, and be very specific in your directions. Shove clothes, keep stick.

My husband started to do the laundry and he became very good at it. Sure, we had an occasional pink load, shrunken sweaters, but, I was just glad someone else was sticking their had in the chute. :)

A REAL laundry is when someone else is doing the work!

bluebinky
08-18-2012, 03:46 PM
The wringers did have a quick release lever to hit with your hopeful free hand before you came out looking like a donald duck cartoon. These porthole machines are just a gadget to fleece the housewives. Only useful in the kitchen of a European apartment.
On ours, you needed to wrap bailing wire around one end of the wringer before trying to run little bro's hand through or else it would just pop open.

The top-loaders are a little easier to load and unload -- I guess if you couldn't bend over it would make a huge difference. However, I almost never need to buy clothes any more, except that the knees on my jeans still wear out.

Cookie
08-18-2012, 03:51 PM
Only wash when needed.

prd823
08-18-2012, 06:47 PM
They do make a top load dryer. My neighbor has one and really likes it. Made by Fisher/Paykel.

Runs with bison
08-18-2012, 07:32 PM
If you got a couple kids, the front loader might make more economical sense, BUT, if just one or two people, much more a money-saver for a top loader. Uses much less water.

1. The HE top loaders are more expensive than the HE front loaders.
2. The HE front loaders are still much more efficient with water then the HE top loaders.
3. The HE front loaders still spin the water out better on average than the HE top loaders--big savings in the dryer.
4. Eliminating the agitator allows for bulkier items to be washed and it is gentler on the clothes--the clothes last longer.

At any rate, even compared to getting along with our old style top loader and spending nothing, my front loader has already paid out, and that's without making an estimate of the value of increased clothing life. Our clothes also tend to come out cleaner than the old top loader, unless we did half loads in the top loader. (It didn't circulate full loads well.)

There are installations where HE top loaders would make more sense, particularly ones where the floor is not solid and any vibration will be transmitted, or in locations where it is inconvenient to have the doors open (e.g. where entrance doors are through the utility space.

Cookie
08-18-2012, 07:47 PM
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2663827/posts

Chad Schloss
08-18-2012, 08:19 PM
i have two different lg washers and dryers. one set is like 6 years old, the newest one is this years model. the older one is sitting on pedistals on a concerete floor. they vibrate slightly at high speed. the new lg are stacked on my main floor in the rental house. subfloor is only 3/4" OSB. no vibrations or noise at all. the newer set does not spin as fast as the old set, maybe that fixed that issue, not sure. both sets are very easy on clothes. i have spent less money on clothes and sheets/blankets since i have had the 6 year old set. my buddy has a fisher/paykel lop loaders. i don't like them simply because there's nothing to them. they weigh next to nothing and make more lint than i think HE washer/dryer's should. they are way noiser than the lg's by far, and cost about the same from what i have compared. i use less soap with the HE washers. yes, the HE soaps can be more expensive, but you can get off brand compareable soaps from places like sam's club for half the price. the washer's that i have also have a heater built in, so if the water is not up to temp, it heats it to what is needed, and has a steam wash (and the newer dryer is also a steam dryer). can't find those in a conventional top loader either. I'd never switch back if I had the choice.

BobL43
08-19-2012, 08:35 AM
If you got a couple kids, the front loader might make more economical sense, BUT, if just one or two people, much more a money-saver for a top loader. Uses much less water. And, if you don't wear clothes much, that saves even more, lol. My wife is 5' 1 inch tall. Our washer and dryers are on those fancy pedestals with drawers. They bring up the height of the doors on the front loaders to the ideal height for my wife. Last night, we were at HD and looked at the selection of washers and dryrs for the fun of it. The largest (an LG) washers there that was a top loader, was so tall, my wife was not able to reach over far enough into it to reach the bottom of the tub, like if she had to pick up some socks at the bottom or whatever. And that was without a pedestal under it.

Ours are now 3 years old, and work like new, no smells; wife happy, me happy.

SteveW
08-19-2012, 10:26 AM
Couple things to add that haven't already been said:

1. If you have a bad smell in a front-loader, check under the seal. I found a kitchen sponge stuck in there and it reeked.

2. We have stopped using fabric softener and I that's been helpful for avoiding build-up on the drum. Fabric softener is basically wax. Actually makes your towels LESS absorbent, even if fluffier. We now use 1/2 cup cheap white vinegar. Everything comes out soft and no build-up.

chefwong
08-19-2012, 11:54 AM
I agree in the softner but I dunno if studies have been done on vinegar relative to the plastics if not the rubber seal...

It's important IMO for any homeowner to peel the gasket back periodically to see if there is buildup on the drum (if you do not know if you are doing ~best practice~) on the washer.

More hot/sanitary washes, hot wash cycles with bleach on a FULL laundry load....etc are all keys to a successful mold mildew free top loader. FULL Load = more water hitting the top parts of the drum.

It's not rocket scientist. But it does require work and *untraining* the mindset of how you used TL and how ones uses a Front Loader.
Leaving the door ajar and soap bin is standard operating procedure. Hot/bleach/full load combos are key to cleaning the *buildup* often with the culprit being softner that acts as a mechanisim...

ballvalve
08-19-2012, 12:52 PM
Here is a interesting post about Israel importing american top loaders due to their advantages.

the main issue is that americans just wash clothes too often. Your bath towel, wiping a fresh clean body can go for 2 months with out a wash. try to tell your wife that. Blue jeans? Give me a WEEK.

http://www.greenprophet.com/2009/04/washing-machine-water-saving/

Runs with bison
08-19-2012, 02:45 PM
Here is a interesting post about Israel importing american top loaders due to their advantages.

the main issue is that americans just wash clothes too often. Your bath towel, wiping a fresh clean body can go for 2 months with out a wash. try to tell your wife that. Blue jeans? Give me a WEEK.

http://www.greenprophet.com/2009/04/washing-machine-water-saving/

In reading the article I failed to see much "advantage." In fact it refuted many of them. Seemed rather pointless really.

If you live in a dry climate bath towels can last a long time (as we see in winter.) Otherwise, they get an odor from being wet & warm and not drying rapidly enough between use.

DonL
08-19-2012, 02:53 PM
I agree in the softner but I dunno if studies have been done on vinegar relative to the plastics if not the rubber seal...

Can't be any worse than Bleach.

jimbo
08-19-2012, 02:57 PM
In reading the article I failed to see much "advantage." In fact it refuted many of them. Seemed rather pointless really.

If you live in a dry climate bath towels can last a long time (as we see in winter.) Otherwise, they get an odor from being wet & warm and not drying rapidly enough between use.

On nuclear submarines...we did have a washing machine. Water was available almost always. Each division was alloted one day per week when the machine was available to them. That meant between 15 to 20 folks per day. The cooks/officers sort of had free rein. Most guys tried to do wash every other week, as washing interfered with the little available sleep time. You had to remain in the head ( where the machine is located) the whole time, as fires in the dryer were greatly feared! The washer was I think from sweden, a front loader that used VERY little water, and spun at about 2000 rpm.

As for our bath towel, about 1/2 of the crew had some kind of towel rack available, but the others just spread the damp towel out on top of the bunk. They seemd to dry out that way ( air circulation was good), and pretty much the air smelled so bad you didn't really notice anything with the towel!!!!!

Runs with bison
08-19-2012, 03:35 PM
You will be fixing the front loader much more often, I wonder why... what really beats your clothes up and wears them out are the dryers, you should line them dry outside, lol. Winter doesn't work too well, but, it is a money saver. ;) you just got to loosen them up a bit before wearing.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2663827/posts

So, the front loader uses less water, but, it can make your rooms vibrate, and rip up your clothes, read the posts above; it can make your clothes smelly, and causes a mold. Nah... I think, I like the top loader. :)


I like to smell good. lol, there are enough of people who stink in this world. I don't want to be one. :) and, if you have to rewash the clothes it bites into the savings, eh.

One of the reasons we had for replacing the old top loader is that it didn't clean well unless there was only half a load in it. The space-wasting, laundry-abusing agitator couldn't churn full loads well, resulting in stratification. We didn't care much for doing twice as many loads to get the clothes clean.

As most reviews note the top loaders are the ones that have trouble that results in ripping up clothes. The agitators are bad about this. Again folks note that they are seeing less lint in the dryer with front loaders--despite the much smaller wash and rinse volume in the wash (that would remove some of the damaged fabric before the laundry was removed to the dryer.) That indicates a lot less abrasion of the fabric is occurring during the wash.

As I've pointed out (as have others) mold issues can be avoided and remedied, plus you can get mold in top loaders too!

I've also had top loaders get a load out of balance and walk around beating themselves and other things up. Front loaders are sensitive to being well leveled, otherwise vibration can be an issue. They have shutdowns built in for out of balance situations.

Only time will tell on repairs. My in-laws have at least 5 years on theirs, I can't recall them having repairs...and of course it replaced a dead top loader. My old top loader had a transmission replacement in the 1st year or so and I had to do at least three other repairs myself that I can recall. Water solenoids failed every 7 years almost like clockwork (did it twice), plus I had lid switch failure. Then there was the time I had to disassemble the top loader and clean inaccessible areas to get rid of mold/mildew. Our LG has been in service for three and a half years without repair. At present, even repairs are in the front loader's favor for us. However, I don't expect that to last forever because of the more complex design. I expect the control board will go in the 10 yr range.

The one plus about the old top loading washers was that a DIYer who could troubleshoot and use tools could replace about anything on them. When I read some reviews of the HE top loaders I noticed a lot of complaints about failure in midcycle and locking wet laundry in for days until a warranty tech could get to it. What a lovely smell that must have been. Might as well pitch the clothes when they come out. (This might have been limited to the specific model.)

Outside drying is not an option here (HOA) and even where it has been an option it had its pit falls. Humid environment, overcast, or wet weather prevented clothes from drying. Winds would blow things onto the laundry or the laundry onto the ground. We did a few loads twice because of such issues. The sun also is hard on colors. Occasionally a snake or lizard would make its way into the house with the laundry from the line. We still hang some items indoors to dry, or don't fully dry before hanging indoors.

Runs with bison
08-19-2012, 03:40 PM
On the rubber and vinegar thing. I suspect the gray rubber seals/gaskets will prove much more durable than black rubber. I'm not even familiar with what the material in them is, but where I've come across what appears to be the same type, they've held up extremely well. Of course, that doesn't help any black hoses still in use...

Runs with bison
08-19-2012, 03:41 PM
As for our bath towel, about 1/2 of the crew had some kind of towel rack available, but the others just spread the damp towel out on top of the bunk. They seemd to dry out that way ( air circulation was good), and pretty much the air smelled so bad you didn't really notice anything with the towel!!!!!

Reminds me of reading Das Boat as well as what astronauts have to say about long missions.

jadnashua
08-19-2012, 04:07 PM
The weight of my front loader (a Samsung) is VERY heavy - if I remember, shipping weight was nearly 300#, and it definately took two strong people to place it on the pedestal. The thing doesn't budge when spinning on high.

DonL
08-20-2012, 02:37 PM
Has anyone used one of those new machines that Wash and Dry ?

BobL43
08-20-2012, 02:59 PM
Bet your wife loves you. AND, top loaders make much more sense when using 2 people. I repeat, makes much more sense. :)Sorry Cookie, my friend. I agree with Runs with Bison. I am older than you, as is my wife. Just the 2 of us here now, and my wife likes the front loaders better than any top loader we ever head. It IS a matter of preference. My wife used to leave the lid open on the top loaders too, to avoid mold and any possible rusting.

Now you two show a little respect to each other, lol.

Ian always had to win every argument , but he is not here any mo.

bluebinky
08-20-2012, 03:13 PM
I think "Runs with bison" is referring to the "rip up your clothes" part of an earlier post. Runs counter to what everyone else is saying. Sure, there are isolated incidents of disasters in all types of washers.

Personally, I just assumed it of was a minor lapse in an otherwise valid post or just bad luck on Cookie's part. Hey Cookie, have you seen and/or heard of clothes getting ripped up by front loaders?

Not tellin anyone what they can or can't say, but there are right and wrong ways to disagree with someone. Best is usually to counter specifics directly, not make blanket statements, like the wife always does ;)

So far, I like the front loader better, but it's still too early to tell -- and there are trade-offs some of which will take years...

As for the economics, I spend probably send in 10 times as much for California income tax as I spend on utilities -- too mad all the time to notice any difference!

Cookie
08-20-2012, 03:31 PM
Yep, used them.

Cookie
08-20-2012, 03:34 PM
I think "Runs with bison" is referring to the "rip up your clothes" part of an earlier post. Runs counter to what everyone else is saying. Sure, there are isolated incidents of disasters in all types of washers.

Personally, I just assumed it of was a minor lapse in an otherwise valid post or just bad luck on Cookie's part. Hey Cookie, have you seen and/or heard of clothes getting ripped up by front loaders?
into it.

Not tellin anyone what they can or can't say, but there are right and wrong ways to disagree with someone. Best is usually to counter specifics directly, not make blanket statements, like the wife always does ;)

So far, I like the front loader better, but it's still too early to tell -- and there are trade-offs some of which will take years...

As for the economics, I spend probably send in 10 times as much for California income tax as I spend on utilities -- too mad all the time to notice any difference!

Yep, used them.

Chad Schloss
08-20-2012, 04:05 PM
Has anyone used one of those new machines that Wash and Dry ?

My aunt had an LG one like that. They have discontinued making them. I was thinking about getting one for the rental house instead of a stackable unit. They are OK. They take too long to dry. It has a condensing dryer and no exaust vent. Many reviews i read about them said they have chose to add an additional dryer ontop or next to the washer due to the extended dry time (sometimes 4 hrs)
I think they are good for what they are;if you had no space or venting options. It's either that or cart to the laundromat. My aunt still brought over comforters and bulky things to wash at our house. Not sure if it was because it wouldn't fit or wouldn't dry properly.

prd823
08-20-2012, 07:50 PM
LG still makes the combo units. A 24" and a 27", at least they are still on the website.

Chad Schloss
08-20-2012, 08:25 PM
LG still makes the combo units. A 24" and a 27", at least they are still on the website.

huh.. that's strange. when i went on there before, they all said discontinued. maybe it was the year before's s models or something.

jadnashua
08-20-2012, 08:58 PM
The combo units (at least those I've seen) have what amounts to a dehumidifer in them, and they take FOREVER to run a cycle (like in 2-3 hours). After it finishes the wash, it tumbles things while running the air through the dehumidifer, eventually drying the clothes. A full load takes much longer because there's very little room for the dry air to circulate.

prd823
08-20-2012, 11:44 PM
Look on the Home Depot site. They have the LG- WM3987HW 3.6 cu.ft capacity.

jimbo
08-21-2012, 04:27 AM
I had no idea this topic would grow legs like this!!!!!


It seems to be well documented that the top-load HE, due to the way they "cycle" the clothes, the very long cycles, and the lack of water....do cause extraordinary wear and tear on clothes.

ballvalve
08-21-2012, 01:38 PM
And, in answer to Runs question about, "have I ever mastered the front loader?" You betcha! Just like MIT. But, that is besides the point, lol. I had a front loader and, since, I can read, I read the directions, we used it just as said, and, it cost more in HE detergents, the door would get stuck not open when the cycle was done, repairs on this 800 dollar machine was so much more than a top loader ever, and, even with cleaning the machine and all essential parts, our clothes still did not smell right. So, back to a large top loader, which would wash even a king sized comforter, and, wash only one bra if necessary, extra small load, small load, all size loads, any detergent your heart desires, repairs are so much less, and so less frequent. As, I said, MY opinion and reasons for the choice is as stated. I am 5'3 and I am able to see into the bottom reach into the bottom, whatever. The price of this deluxe top loader was much less in cost than the front loader. I gave the front loader away to a charity on its last repair visit.

Well said. But the charity better have a charitable repairman!

Of course they can build a TRUE washer, hot air dryer combo [which would also kill all mould issues] But they would knock out half their profits. Those dehumidifier jokers are even hated by the europeans that have them in the kitchen and no other space.

chefwong
08-21-2012, 03:03 PM
Condenser units are fairly somewhat popular in NYC. I had a Miele condenser dryer in our apt when I live in the city. It has a purpose when ducting is not even open for discussion..

Runs with bison
08-21-2012, 05:00 PM
It seems to be well documented that the top-load HE, due to the way they "cycle" the clothes, the very long cycles, and the lack of water....do cause extraordinary wear and tear on clothes.

Hadn't heard this, but I haven't examined the top-load HE's closely (really didn't appear to be a viable option a few years ago.) My sister went that route more recently. I'll have to ask her about that after she has it a few years. Of course, the tech still seems to be coming along on the HE top loaders so they might be improved in a few years.

Runs with bison
08-21-2012, 05:04 PM
Condenser units are fairly somewhat popular in NYC. I had a Miele condenser dryer in our apt when I live in the city. It has a purpose when ducting is not even open for discussion..

My in-laws had some experience with one while living in Europe. They said it worked okay. I've never used one, but am curious about them.

jadnashua
08-21-2012, 05:11 PM
My in-laws had some experience with one while living in Europe. They said it worked okay. I've never used one, but am curious about them.

Many people in the rest of the world have fewer clothes and wash them much less frequently than we do, so smaller loads, less frequent and this type of washer can make some sense. In a typical US household, those things don't line up...lots of loads would likely take more than one day.

bluebinky
08-21-2012, 06:24 PM
I guess I don't do enough laundry...

Cookie
08-21-2012, 08:04 PM
Well said. But the charity better have a charitable repairman!

Of course they can build a TRUE washer, hot air dryer combo [which would also kill all mould issues] But they would knock out half their profits. Those dehumidifier jokers are even hated by the europeans that have them in the kitchen and no other space.

I hope so, too.

Cookie
08-22-2012, 07:41 AM
Have a nice day!

BobL43
08-22-2012, 08:51 AM
Okay, I made my coffee didn't drink it yet, you got your phone? Now, is THIS the stare? ( very funny stuff on this video)
http://tv.yahoo.com/news/al-roker-s-stare-will-haunt-your-dreams--video-.html
he looks like "Flobot" on the Progressive Insurance TV commercial when a jealous Flo removed Flobot's battery. You see that one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l47PX15noxM

Terry
08-22-2012, 09:03 AM
I may have delted a few posts. If more posts need deleting, just let me know.

My sister has six boys, and likes the front loader. I still have a top loader, so I haven't formed an oppinon yet. I have two types of detergent here. Depending on the one I choose, has some effect on smell. Sorry......that's all I got.
But if'n you want to know what the plumbing in the wall looks like, I can do that.

DonL
08-22-2012, 09:06 AM
I may have delted a few posts. If more posts need deleting, just let me know.


Can you add instant messaging to the site ? (lol)

Thank You Terry.

You have a great site.

jadnashua
08-22-2012, 10:20 AM
My several year (limited) experience with a front loader is that I like it. It has not eaten anything, doesn't smell, and uses less water and detergent. I do not use softener on at least one load, and do that one last, so things get rinsed out maybe more than for someone that uses it each load. Some things just don't want softener in them to work right (IMO towels, a lot of high-tech athletic wear, etc.). I washed a big comfortor that would not fit into my old machine, at least not without shreading it in the process. The thing weighs a ton and doesn't rock or vibrate when spinning. During start up, it adds a little water then rocks things back and forth to spread things out evenly while weighing the load to determine the amount of water to use.

The only thing I've noticed is that a cycle tends to take longer than with my toploader. But, it makes up for the total time by needing less time in the dryer since it extracts water better. Mine does have a steam setting, but I've not had something that needed that (yet!). That may make the cycle time quite long. It also has the ability to heat the water to sanitize, but I tend to use its silver ion cycle more often (silver ions kill bacteria and viruses). that may also be a factor in keeping any smells down.

My guess is, that if yours has a sanitize cycle, running that once in awhile might disolve any buildup and clean things out. No buildup, no food for anything to grow in, no smells.

ballvalve
08-22-2012, 10:52 AM
Condenser units are fairly somewhat popular in NYC. I had a Miele condenser dryer in our apt when I live in the city. It has a purpose when ducting is not even open for discussion..

If you run a condenser dryer to completion, you have injected just the same amount of water into the air as a FAST heating element. And who wants to pay for a little refrigerator inside their washer? No windows in NYC? I can get you a 7cf dryer for about $299, US made. But again, they wont build it [combo] because it would kill a whole plant somewhere.

Well, maybe thats not so bad after all.

I have to admit I grew up with a front loader. Starting working for Dad at age 8. This front loader was as big as your cubed car, and used [thank god] the old cleaning fluid which was essentially paint thinner. Talk about a spin cycle! If you threw a hog in there it would come out as a pancake. And NO vibration. No good for urine and such. The dirty secret of drycleaning plants is the big laundry hidden in the back! That was my job too- an old speed queen with a seperate extractor for a few bold customers that brought in things you wouldnt believe. We still have about 500 pocket knives and rolled a ton of coins every week. The big wads of cash we gave back. No employee ever got to check a pocket.

But we preferred the OLD machines - giant top loaders like a barbeque lid opening. Much easier to load, and they were from the first ever made - and never broke like the new front loader often did.

And imagine that dad and gramps could still make you a new suit and pants in the 70's. Those days are dead. About all thats left is a few comforters they sewed from old wool suit sample book swatches starting about 1918. Warmest things on earth and probably should go to auction.

All the machines had DE and cloth filter systems, so no fluid was consumed except thru drying. Again, the new Bill Gates will design a washer with a DE filter that uses the same water for a year. Look at your pool - awfully clean, eh?

Runs with bison
08-22-2012, 11:07 PM
My several year (limited) experience with a front loader is that I like it. It has not eaten anything, doesn't smell, and uses less water and detergent.
To add to this, I have had exactly one pair of shorts damaged by the front loader, the only damage so far. (This is much less than the average annual damage from the top loader that we've experienced...it had expensive tastes.) Somehow, on a very full load those shorts got wedged between the gasket and rubbed the gasket on every rev throughout the cycle from what I could tell troubleshooting. The shorts are still wearable in public, but do have hole in a pocket. They actually look like they were made that way... The gasket took some wear, but nothing critical. Led me to investigate cost and difficulty of what gasket replacement might be. I felt better once I checked these.


The only thing I've noticed is that a cycle tends to take longer than with my toploader. But, it makes up for the total time by needing less time in the dryer since it extracts water better.

Very true, the wash cycle is noticeably longer. One of the funny things in reviews is folks buying sets and saying how much better the dryer does! They don't seem to realize that the dryer is working better because the washer is doing the majority of the work for the dryer. The front loaders take longer than the original top loaders. We set all wash cycles manually to max spin speed to minimize drying cost.

I ran a Kill-a-watt meter on the washer when I first had it, it uses considerably less total juice than the standard top loaders did even when the new unit is set to its fastest spin setting. Couple that with the drying reduction and it is a winner.

Just more engineer geek fun.

Runs with bison
08-22-2012, 11:13 PM
Many people in the rest of the world have fewer clothes and wash them much less frequently than we do, so smaller loads, less frequent and this type of washer can make some sense. In a typical US household, those things don't line up...lots of loads would likely take more than one day.

The one they used had a condensate reservoir that had to be periodically emptied when in use. They indicated that another user would not empty the thing and couldn't understand why it didn't dry! It worked for them.

I don't doubt that it would be slow. Relying on some sort of heating and condensation system is going to result in much lower heat flux. Coupling it with high spin speed HE's might balance things. Relative humidity of the climate and ambient for the dryer would make a difference too.