PDA

View Full Version : BIGWALL Cast Iron Plumbing?



solid
07-23-2012, 06:07 PM
Hi Everyone,

I started a project that consists of:

Upgrading a plastic flower pot sump pit to a Jackel unit with a lid.
Eliminate a "mysetery pipe" that would send washer suds into above mentioned sump pit.
Replace poured concrete laundry sink.
Replace all plumbing associated with above items.

This is a picture of what things looked like before I started this project:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/megabass5150/plumbing1.jpg
The sump pump, utility sink, and washing machine all drained through that mess under the utility sink (only 1 trap on sink).

Here's what it looks like now:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/megabass5150/mess.jpg

Notice that weird circular hole on the far right? Well, I thought it was just a patch in the concrete (you can see it in the first picture that I posted), but I decided to chip away the concrete to investigate. Under a very thin layer of concrete was the bottom half of a broken glass bottle:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/megabass5150/mystery-1.jpg

Here's what it looks like inside:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/megabass5150/bigwall.jpg

I'm guessing this is some sort of back flow preventer, or clean out? I was planing on replacing the original cast iron tee with PVC, but now, I'm wondering if I should just remove this while I'm doing all this work? What do you think? My plan is to have a professional plumber come and clean this section of drain, and instal the new pvc for me, and I will finish the concrete.

solid
07-24-2012, 05:45 AM
Also, I would really like the plumber to make this sort of attachment instead of cutting the pipe and using the band style coupling. What do I tell him to do, and will he be offended by me telling him how to do his job? I assume this is a better connection?

http://www.terrylove.com/images/replace_lead_bend.jpg

hj
07-24-2012, 05:48 AM
I would suspect it is a cleanout, but do not have enough information to verify it. Your sink drain is still a kludge with an "S" trap for the sink. WHERE do you want him to make that connection, and a "band style" coupling is just as good, if not better.

solid
07-24-2012, 06:15 AM
I would think the band style coupling would be easier to do, so I will just have him do that instead.

All of the pvc plumbing you see in these images is going to removed - I just left it there for now. I want the Plumber to replace the cast iron tee with a pvc section that comes up through the concrete floor in roughly the same spot. The utility sink will be connected there, and the washing machine will just drain into the utility sink, and the sump pump will discharge outside the house. My question is, should I continue to excavate this area and remove that clean out, or connect where I'm planning on doing it?

Tom Sawyer
07-24-2012, 06:29 AM
Ask your plumber, he will tell you what needs to be excavated.

solid
07-24-2012, 07:13 AM
Ask your plumber, he will tell you what needs to be excavated.

Obviously, but I figured I would ask in advance of the plumber showing up. If everyone says that I need to remove/replace that clean out, I will break up the floor for them, instead of having them do it when they show up.

solid
08-14-2012, 08:08 AM
UPDATE:

Here is what it looks like now:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/megabass5150/new-plumbing.jpg

The plumber finally showed up and I explained to him what I was doing, and that I was concerned about this device that is just down stream of the exposed plumbing (there are a few more pictures of this above):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/megabass5150/bigwall.jpg

As you can see, he decided to cut the cast iron pipe in the location that I originally asked for, and used a coupling with stainless steel sleeve to make the connection. The device above is a one way valve, or a back flow preveter (with a flapper valve). He said that the valve appears to be hung in the open position, so the water should be able to flow out just fine, but if there was a backup in the main line, the waste water would be able to come back through this valve. He said it shouldn't be a problem, and told me to fill in the hole with spray foam, and cover the top with some thin set.

I hooked up the utility sink, and tested with buckets of water, and ran a few loads of laundry through the sink, and there was no problem with drainage that I could see. I am still wondering if this is the right thing to do here. Does anyone have any input?

BTW, the bill to cut the pipe and attach the new PVC you see in the image was $245.00. I already had the AAV (brand new), so he just cut the pipe and added what you see - do you think that is a reasonable price?

mikeplummer
08-14-2012, 09:02 AM
i would always question leaving an inoperable device in the plumbing system that could easily cause problems down the road... now is the time to remove it.

solid
08-14-2012, 01:51 PM
i would always question leaving an inoperable device in the plumbing system that could easily cause problems down the road... now is the time to remove it.

That's exactly what I'm thinking. I'm very disappointed (to say the least) with the plumber that did this work. I could have done what he did, but wanted to get a professional to tell me what is the right thing to do. Anyway, I'm concerned with the location of this valve, because it is pretty close the the main stack:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/megabass5150/new-work.jpg

I'm afraid that using a rotary hammer to break up the floor could damage the cast iron on the main line - should I be concerned with this? Also, do you think I will have enough of the old pipe left (after cutting out the valve) to attach the coupler?

Finally, will a sawzall be able to cut through the 2" cast iron pipe with the appropriate blade? I don't want to call the plumber again - I can't afford it for one, and I don't think he really cares about this.

solid
08-14-2012, 06:00 PM
OK....

Is it safe to assume that the back flow preventer is connected to the cast iron plumbing with a bell and spigot connection branching off the main stack? If so, would I be able to disassemble the bell and spigot, and replace with a rubber donut to 2" PVC? That way, I wouldn't have to worry about cutting the cast iron, unless separating the bell and spigot connection is going to be impossible. Has anyone here ever seen anything like this before?

BTW - I'm asking these questions (instead of just breaking up the floor and looking myself) because in order to break up the slab, I have to rent the rotary hammer, and I can't do that until this weekend. I just want to be somewhat prepared for what I'm going to do.

solid
08-15-2012, 07:15 AM
Also, if there is anyone on this forum that could recommend a good plumber in the southern New Hampshire (Manchester) area, that would be great. Just in case I run into some problems with my plan here. Really, I just want to make sure everything is correct before I cover everything up with concrete. Breaking up this floor is a real pain.

hagakure
08-16-2012, 02:16 PM
I have to ask..what did you use the caulking tool for? Second photo


OK....

Is it safe to assume that the back flow preventer is connected to the cast iron plumbing with a bell and spigot connection branching off the main stack? If so, would I be able to disassemble the bell and spigot, and replace with a rubber donut to 2" PVC? That way, I wouldn't have to worry about cutting the cast iron, unless separating the bell and spigot connection is going to be impossible. Has anyone here ever seen anything like this before?

BTW - I'm asking these questions (instead of just breaking up the floor and looking myself) because in order to break up the slab, I have to rent the rotary hammer, and I can't do that until this weekend. I just want to be somewhat prepared for what I'm going to do.

-You can disable it but it will take some elbow grease and a pry bar.

Anyway, you're going to have to fix all that concrete so you might as well open it all up now and see what's going on. Doesn't make sense to open a little and then close it all up without knowing what's under your slab and what you can do down there. Might as well open it all. If he's wrong and it's actually a cleanout, maybe put an access door.

In fact, break up the whole basement and make it look brand new! Yes!!

solid
08-16-2012, 04:41 PM
So, I'm sitting here racking my brain, trying to remember what the heck I was doing with that caulking tool! I'm sorry, but I can't for the life of me remember, but whatever it was, it certainly was not the intended use!

There is no doubt that this is a backwater valve. When he cut through the cast iron, we looked in there, and he also stuck a small piece of PVC pipe down in, and past the flapper (maybe that's why it is stuck open?). It looks like it is stuck about 1/2 - 3/4 of the way open. Despite the fact that he didn't have a problem with this, I am still going to break up the floor and replace it. I see what you're saying - it really isn't that much more floor to break up, but I have to rent the tool to do it (that hammer and bull-point chisel you see above sucks). So, that's what I'm going to be doing this weekend - it should cost around $50 for 4 hours (min. rental time). I will post an update after I smash the floor to pieces; thanks for the reply!

solid
08-18-2012, 10:24 AM
UPDATE!

Ok, I rented the demo hammer and broke up around the damaged backwater valve. The riser just fell off the backwater valve, but you can still see the top of it on the left. This is exactly what I was afraid of finding - there is a tight 45 degree turn immediately after the backwater valve, BUT I think I have enough room to use the banded coupler. What do you think about this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/megabass5150/plumbing-cut.png

I took a look at the internal dimensions of my coupler, and it looks like I need 1" on either side, I just don't know if I will be able to make a straight enough cut so close to the backwater valve. The other option would be to separate that connection and use a donut. What do you guys think?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/megabass5150/options.png