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View Full Version : Is there a Made in USA toilet as good as a Toto?



Nickelboy
07-23-2012, 10:22 AM
I try as much as I can to buy US made products from US companies, so as the titles says; Is there a Made in USA toilet as good as a Toto? Of course as good as a TOTO is subjective, but with many reviews on and off this board the Toto's must be pretty darn good. Mansfield seems to be all USA, but they don't seem to have any good reviews. I need to buy something ASAP. Thanks for your comments.

Nickelboy

Terry
07-23-2012, 10:39 AM
It's a little hard to find product made in the US right now. I sell a lot of the TOTO that is manufactured in Georgia here in the US.
Typically the:
Drake II
Vespin II
Ultramax
Ultramax II and what seems to be the other product from TOTO with the "II" after the name.

I never cared for the Mansfield Alto. That was a builder grade version that I remove a lot.
Lately around the Seattle area, the new ones seemed to have vanished.
If you go Mansfield, the Maverick would be fine.
Stay away from their pressure assist dual flush though. The Chinese EcoFlush doesn't seem to hold up.

In 2007, Bain Capital (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Standard_Brands) bought out three major plumbing companies and consolidated manufacturing, shutting down some US locations. That was American Standard, Crane and Eljer.

Gerber, which had been a family owned business based out of Chicago was bought by a Chinese company, and that manufacturing went overseas.

Kohler makes some product in the US too, as well as some imports.

http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?33620-What-TOTO-Toilettes-are-made-in-the-United-States

wjcandee
07-23-2012, 11:21 AM
Toto does do a good bit of manufacturing in the US in Georgia, as Terry says. For me, it's good enough that they manufacture a good percentage of their stuff here. As a global company, I always thought that it was cool that they chose to buy some of the in-tank components from Korky/Lavelle, which manufactures all its parts in Wisconsin. Now, however, Toto uses the Korky fill valve in some toilets and a foreign-made fill valve in others (although all the toilets will accept the American-made fill valve as a replacement). On one of Toto's increasingly-popular toilets, the Aquia dual-flush, Korky is the exclusive manufacturer of the fill valve, and they make it here in the US.

I bought two regular (G-Max) Drakes (as opposed to the increasingly-popular Drake II with the Dual-Cyclone). As a two-piece toilet, the Drake therefore comes in two boxes. As one of Toto's most popular (and most affordable) toilets, it is made in a number of their facilities. I ended up with one American tank and one foreign, and (I think) one American bowl and one foreign (or it could be two foreign bowls). The American tank came with the foreign fill valve, and the foreign tank came with the American fill valve. The American tank has Made in USA molded into it. I have since replaced the foreign fill valve with the American one, which is readily-available locally.

One other nice thing, for what it is worth, is that American-made Korky parts (i.e. fill valve and flapper) are available for this toilet at a number of the big-box chains for when they need replacement.

Hope this helps your decision.

PS One other thought. If you go with the Drake, for example, and you get it at a local plumbing supply house, and they have a decent stock, they may let you ask them to pull the boxes for you that say "Made in USA". Or if you are going for say the Drake II, you can ask them to confirm that they have the tank and bowl that is made in the US.

Nickelboy
07-30-2012, 11:42 AM
I just can't do it. I know some of you will say some parts are made in the USA, but Toto is still a foreign company. I'm going with the Mansfield Summit 3. Thanks for all comments, advice and especially a great website.

Gary Swart
07-30-2012, 12:10 PM
Your concern about buying USA made products is commendable, but you obviously own a computer. You watch TV? You have a camera? You have electrical appliances in your home? Well, where do you suppose they were made? Hope your as sold on your Mansfield if you have a clog in the middle of the night. Just be sure your plunger is made in the USA.

Nickelboy
07-30-2012, 12:48 PM
Your concern about buying USA made products is commendable but you obviously own a computer. You watch TV? You have a camera? You have electrical appliances in your home? Well, where do you suppose they were made? Hope your as sold on your Mansfield if you have a clog in the middle of the night. Just be sure your plunger is made in the USA.

It's not commendable if I don't stick to what I believe now is it? Albeit, there are items that are no longer made here in the USA, but I can not control that, now can I? I will ALWAYS buy the USA model of anything first. My Country, My Money and now my Mansfield. It's the right thing for me to do, notice I didn't ask or impose my choice on anybody else.

wjcandee
07-30-2012, 01:27 PM
Korky actually does make a pretty nice plunger in Wisconsin.

For the gentleman, I think there are two issues. The first is, "Where is it made?", which is the one I thought he was concerned about. The reasoning that most people have behind that one is that they want to help keep jobs here by buying things that are made here. Toto's products generally meet that requirement; they are doing more than CraneEljerStandard to actually employ Americans to make product here, and I think they deserve our support.

The "foreign company" issue is a little difficult. If I start a toilet company in the United States, employ say 5,000 people in administrative positions in Georgia and around the country, and those administrators build a manufacturing infrastructure that employs Americans, does anybody care what country I am a citizen of? If so, does it matter if I am a citizen of one of our strongest allies in the world? If Joe Smith from Utah founded the company and grew it, and then sold it to someone from someplace else who left everything intact, do we care who owns it? It's an issue that quickly becomes a conundrum.

That said, I love the Korky folks, who do everything in Wisconsin, and do a lot right, particularly as regards customer satisfaction. They are super eager to please; they have even started participating in the comments sections of reviews on retailer web sites to answer questions, solve problems, suggest refunds, etc. If they made a toilet, I would give it serious consideration. But they don't. Of course, the next best thing is to buy the toilet that uses their parts. Just sayin'.

Interestingly, of course, Mansfield is owned by Corona, a Columbian company. Just like TotoUSA is owned by Toto, a Japanese company.

Mansfield stamps "many" of its toilets 'Made in USA", but not all. They are talking about the China.

Mansfield uses the Fluidmaster 400A as the fill valve on many of its toilets. The 400A is MADE IN MEXICO. And, of course, the heinous WDI Eco-Flush is Made in China.

So...if the gentleman wants to stay true to his beliefs, he probably is pretty much in the same place buying Toto as Mansfield.

Toto: Much china made in USA, mostly USA guts, USA manufacturer owned by Japanese.

Mansfield: Much china made in USA, much Mexican guts, USA manufacturer owned by Columbians.


Organizacion CORONA is a Colombian multinational company with more than 129 years of business history. It consists of eight strategic business units dedicated to the manufacturing and marketing of home improvement and construction products. It has 17 manufacturing plants in Colombia and two in the US, as well as a global supply office in China, a tile and electrical insulator commercialization company in the U.S. and another commercialization company in Mexico.

wjcandee
07-30-2012, 03:53 PM
Only problem with Korky products is that all the ones I have purchased pretty much sucked. wolverine brass is made here in the states but they don t sell to handy hacks and homewners......pros only.

I have a nice, vastly overpriced Wolverine Brass ballcock and Rube Goldberg flush valve in my 1926 washdown toilet. For sure that will be there the remaining life of the toilet. Looks beautiful. Works fine.

Hey, look. I get that Wolverine Brass makes quality stuff. I also get that some plumbers feel a need to have a product that differentiates them from the product that you can get at HD for $9 that you need to charge $30 for if you have to drag your butt over to the customer to install. And that Wolverine tries to provide helpful basic marketing tips and support for your business (tags on ballcocks, etc.).

But the reason that they don't sell to us "homeowner hacks" (nice attitude towards the customer, BTW) is a MARKETING issue, not anything else.

And why would I let someone install one of their faucets in my home when it means that not only do I have to go to a plumber to replace the parts (and there's a fair chance that I would), but also that I have to go to one that deals with Wolverine, and then I have to wait for the parts to arrive. If my Delta springs a leak, I can go and rehab it myself pretty easily with parts that I can get anywhere, or when I call my plumber he can assuredly fix it that day. I have three sets of 50+ year old AS shower faucets in the house. My plumber took a few days to be able to get new seats and stems for them, but he could and did get them and now they work great again. Probably not so 30 years from now with some fancy-schmancy $600 cutesy designer thing that we could have bought, and probably not with Wolverine Brass, either. So neither are welcome in the house.

I concede that they make a great ballcock. I concede that they make a killer tank-to-bowl set. But this recently-empowered homeowner hack (who does know what his limits are) would rather go get a Korky fill valve downtown and install it himself, even if it only lasts 5 years, and save the real plumbing for the plumber, whom I am happy to pay. (Indeed, my guy just put the Grundfos comfort system on our hot water. For many, that's a DIY job. It involved sweating a new bend of copper pipe into the hot water line because of the flue on the hot water heater. Sweating copper on a hot water heater? Out of my league and I'm happy to pay my trusted guy to do that.)

And regardless of what you think of Korky's fill valve, lots of real plumbers like their flappers. Indeed, once I learned a little something, I noticed that my own plumber had been installing Korky flappers on my own toilets back before I had learned a little something.

And, for what it's worth, I notice that Wolverine Brass carries the Korky 528 fill valve (catalog page c-9), the R528 replacement cap (page c-10), and the full line of Korky flappers (page c-16, 17, 18).

Nickelboy
07-30-2012, 05:12 PM
Korky actually does make a pretty nice plunger in Wisconsin.

For the gentleman, I think there are two issues. The first is, "Where is it made?", which is the one I thought he was concerned about. The reasoning that most people have behind that one is that they want to help keep jobs here by buying things that are made here. Toto's products generally meet that requirement; they are doing more than CraneEljerStandard to actually employ Americans to make product here, and I think they deserve our support.

The "foreign company" issue is a little difficult. If I start a toilet company in the United States, employ say 5,000 people in administrative positions in Georgia and around the country, and those administrators build a manufacturing infrastructure that employs Americans, does anybody care what country I am a citizen of? If so, does it matter if I am a citizen of one of our strongest allies in the world? If Joe Smith from Utah founded the company and grew it, and then sold it to someone from someplace else who left everything intact, do we care who owns it? It's an issue that quickly becomes a conundrum.

That said, I love the Korky folks, who do everything in Wisconsin, and do a lot right, particularly as regards customer satisfaction. They are super eager to please; they have even started participating in the comments sections of reviews on retailer web sites to answer questions, solve problems, suggest refunds, etc. If they made a toilet, I would give it serious consideration. But they don't. Of course, the next best thing is to buy the toilet that uses their parts. Just sayin'.

Interestingly, of course, Mansfield is owned by Corona, a Columbian company. Just like TotoUSA is owned by Toto, a Japanese company.

Mansfield stamps "many" of its toilets 'Made in USA", but not all. They are talking about the China.

Mansfield uses the Fluidmaster 400A as the fill valve on many of its toilets. The 400A is MADE IN MEXICO. And, of course, the heinous WDI Eco-Flush is Made in China.

So...if the gentleman wants to stay true to his beliefs, he probably is pretty much in the same place buying Toto as Mansfield.

Toto: Much china made in USA, mostly USA guts, USA manufacturer owned by Japanese.

Mansfield: Much china made in USA, much Mexican guts, USA manufacturer owned by Columbians.

Pardon me, and thank-you for pointing out my ignorance. I was blinded by all the Made in USA and Perrysville Ohio marketing that I didn't properly look any further. Yes, jobs in the US is vitally important along with promoting US owned and US Headquartered companies. I'm just passionate about the US and try to do the best I can to support the USA.

wjcandee
07-30-2012, 06:29 PM
I'm just passionate about the US and try to do the best I can to support the USA.

Probably a sentiment most of us would agree with! And most of your particular toilet probably IS made here, and I (at least) certainly appreciate your efforts to stay true to your values.

[Like the other day when Romney spoke to the NAACP. The delegates rumbled when he said stuff they disagreed with -- and the media covered that thoroughly -- but they also gave him a standing ovation at the end. Media-types were confused: why the Standing O? The delegates they interviewed said that while they likely wouldn't be voting for him, they appreciated that he appeared firmly to believe in what he was saying and that he came across as a person of conviction who made an honest effort to come before them to share his ideas. I thought that that reflected very well on everyone concerned; that's certainly consistent with our founding principles.]

Terry
07-30-2012, 08:30 PM
Well, in that tone, I might mention that Bain Capital owns Eljer, Crane and American Standard. A/S is headquartered in New Jersey.
And then there is family owned Kohler in Wisconsin.



Budweiser, the world's largest selling beer, is owned by Belgian-Brazilian company InBev. The company purchased Anheuser Busch in 2007 for a reported $52 million.

Runs with bison
07-30-2012, 09:51 PM
Well, in that tone, I might mention that Bain Capital owns Eljer, Crane and American Standard. A/S is headquartered in New Jersey.
And then there is family owned Kohler in Wisconsin.

Bain, vulture capitalists that have destroyed American manufacturing in order to loot the companies. Job destroyers, not creators. When the revolution comes, they should be the first against the wall.

Terry
07-31-2012, 03:25 PM
Hackney,

One in fifty?

Really? I have homeowners repairing these over the phone without tools.

Runs with Bison,

Tell us how you really feel.

Side note: I'm really glad the US didn't just give up manufacturing cars here.
I notice that Toyota and Honda can do it here. It's nice to see Chevy, Ford and Chrysler still at it too.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/06/19/automobiles/20090619-auto-plants-4.html

Otearai
08-01-2012, 04:18 PM
Hackney,
Side note: I'm really glad the US didn't just give up manufacturing cars here.
I notice that Toyota and Honda can do it here. It's nice to see Chevy, Ford and Chrysler still at it too.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/06/19/automobiles/20090619-auto-plants-4.html

Until I read that you and others had posted more plumbingly poignant comparisons in regard to the ownership of Mansfield, I had been tempted to offer the following automobile analogy, and now I shall:

Our family car is a Mazda6 station wagon. It was assembled in Michigan by unionized UAW labor, almost entirely from domestically manufactured parts (and its fit and finish are exemplary). Ford (which back when the Mazda6 was under development, owned more than 30 percent of Mazda's common stock, some of whch Mazda has since repurchased) had a contractual arrangement with Mazda to use the Mazda6 platform for Ford-branded products, and Ford developed no fewer than nine vehicles on the platform, including Ford's best-selling sedan, the Ford Fusion.

A friend of mine, a Fusion owner, one time was getting all lapel-flag-pin on me, bragging that he had the *American* version of the platform that our respective cars share. However, while Mazda has its U.S. market Mazda6 vehicles assembled in Michigan, Ford has its Fusions assembled in Mexico, and brings them into the United States under NAFTA. When I told my friend of that, even he agreed that the Mazda6 is more red, white, and blue than the Ford Fusion (though, as Mexico is located in North America, the Fusion is certainly American).

Back on topic, we are very happy with our made-in-Georgia Vespin II toilet, also.

Terry
08-14-2012, 07:10 PM
I have three toilets in my home right now that were made in the USA by TOTO.
I pay a little more, but I think it's worth it.
I was checking Home Depot today, and noticed that their American Standard toilets were made in Mexico. Well I guess Mexico is in the America's too. If someone wants to buy a product "made" in the US, there are some options I can offer them.

But then there are some that don't even want to pay sales tax. In Washington State and British Columbia, we collect sales tax. When customers come down from Canada, they pay the sales tax too.

And by the way Ballvalve, I do sell all the brands. If someone wants it. I'll sell it to them. I also work on all the brands.

GoKohlerGo
08-15-2012, 07:48 AM
To get a toilet as good as toto that is made in the USA, buy the Kohler Cimarron. I have one and love it.

Cookie
08-15-2012, 07:54 AM
God bless you. :) I got to be honest, I got one of those, and I want to drop kick it out the bath window. I am sure, Kohler makes good products as well, as Toto, but, surely, you jest about the Cimarron. I got it working pretty good now, after 7 years of tweaking it. Everyone asks me what I want for Xmas, and everyone thinks I am kidding, when I say, " a new toilet." :)

wjcandee
08-15-2012, 08:34 AM
To get a toilet as good as toto that is made in the USA, buy the Kohler Cimarron. I have one and love it.

Pretty sure that Cimarron is not made in the USA.

Cookie
08-15-2012, 09:47 AM
I don't know who made that toilet, but, it requires a whole lot of patience. lol. I want to buy the toilet that Ed Bundy uses on the ole' show, Married with Children, now, he never had a problem. :)

ballvalve
08-15-2012, 11:28 AM
American standard 3 - now MADE IN THE USA - have a click and be amazed!

http://www.americanstandard-us.com/promotions/made-in-usa/

As I mentioned, with the cost of natural gas, You'll see more patriots take a profit at home, and have workers with money enough to BUY american. As Ian said many times, "thats the best little toilet on earth. Flush an elephant turd, mate."

As to the Cimarron, I found a story online where the union refused a thousand on a huge job, because they were made in china or mexico, and next week received fresh american made ones. So I guess they send the imports to the home stores, and save the us ones for the buy american act.

People that care about getting America back on its feet, will live with a chinese plunger next to their US Mansfield. Or go ahead and buy the US Toto, just remember the profits leave the country.

http://www.mansfieldplumbing.com/Why-Mansfield/Made-In-USA.aspx

And here are 10 pages of US made mansfield products, so yes, you have choices.

http://www.mansfieldplumbing.com/Product-Catalog/Made-In-USA.aspx?page=10

Here is the best reason to seek US made products - so your kid does not end up at MCburgers or the dollar depression store:

17075

Terry
08-15-2012, 02:27 PM
I pay as much for a TOTO Drake at the wholesale level as I do for a Cadet 3.
Since I work for a living selling and installing plumbing products, it's nice if that product is trouble free. My time is worth something. Working with the TOTO line is a no brainer if I want to do the job once. My return rates on TOTO have been less then 1%
It's been much higher for American Standard product that I'm selling and installing.
And nobody pays you for lost time.

I see he likes flags a lot too. My family has been in the country long before it was a country.
I can date it back to 1620. That's 392 years. But I don't need to post flags to let people know I'm a nice person. I have friends from all over. My family is very international too, and so are my customers. I live in the Seattle area, a very nice place to be. I'm kind of partial to British Columbia too. Nice people everywhere it seems.

jadnashua
08-15-2012, 04:38 PM
Even if corporate profits end up overseas, the vast majority of the money created by running a factory in any country is the labor, medical, services, and materials it purchases or provides to the community. All of that money stays local, and when you consider the typical multiplication factor of all those employed people spending their salaries, it is MUCH more than the relatively insignificant profits that may leave. And, if you happen to own any stock in that company, some of that profit also stays here. Not counting the taxes they pay to local economy and the feds. People that bash foreign owners are welcomed to startup their own, competing endeavor.

wjcandee
08-15-2012, 05:30 PM
Even if corporate profits end up overseas, the vast majority of the money created by running a factory in any country is the labor, medical, services, and materials it purchases or provides to the community. All of that money stays local, and when you consider the typical multiplication factor of all those employed people spending their salaries, it is MUCH more than the relatively insignificant profits that may leave. And, if you happen to own any stock in that company, some of that profit also stays here. Not counting the taxes they pay to local economy and the feds. People that bash foreign owners are welcomed to startup their own, competing endeavor.

You know, there needs to be a bit of a dose of reality in this thread.

I read that piece that Ballvalve posted about American Standard "Made in USA" Chinaware. Holy crap! All I can say is that it makes me dislike the company even more. First, obviously the only reason that they moved some of this manufacturing back was to be able to continue to have their chinaware used in public works projects funded with Stimulus Package money. What are they making here? Well, certain versions of the Cadet for government buildings, and a flushometer toilet bowl suitable for public restrooms, and a few sinks the same. Everything else? Made elsewhere. Tank hardware? Sure looks like a Made in Mexico Fluidmaster on that Cadet. So for them to wave the flag like that just makes me gag.

It's hard to hear about a "global economy" when one sees factories close and jobs move. Nevertheless, it doesn't help us, in my view to become jingoistic. For example, to worry about "profits going elsewhere" misses one point that is probably relevant to the discussion. Those profits that "go elsewhere" are operating profits. Those profits, after being taxed here, go back to pay back the capital investment that the owner made here in the first place. So, when the Columbians bought Mansfield, they paid Americans tens of millions of dollars that otherwise would be sitting in Columbia. In other words, they injected capital into this country. The old Mansfield owners could then spend and invest that money. Meanwhile, the profits that the Columbians get are being used to pay off whatever money they had to borrow to buy Mansfield. When Toto came to the US, they put tens of millions of dollars into building an infrastructure here, building things, renting space, hiring people, before they ever begun to get money back from their operations. What operating profit they make here gets taxed by our government before some of it goes to Japan to pay off the investment that they made here in the first place and continue to make. Bottom line: yeah, "profits" go out when you buy a Toto, but a lot of money came IN to the US from them before they could even start operating.

To me, that something is made here or made by a local company is icing on the cake; I'll pay a little more for it, but I'm not going to buy something that's grossly-overpriced or not a good product just because some marketing-type slaps a flag-sticker on it. So I am delighted to buy a Korky flapper, for example, because it's a good product, priced right, and made here. Now that's a winner!

Cookie
08-15-2012, 07:20 PM
An outhouse is looking better and better, lol.

There is something I think most people do not understand. There is at least one common denominator with all countries. All. My husband traveled for work, really extensively, in & out of our country. I was luckily enough to be able to travel with him alot of the time to places most people won't get a chance to ever see. We found one thing that all countries had in common. They preferred that their own countrymen or tourists, buy their own countries products over another's. I swear it was this way, no matter what country or how far-reaching it was from the US. If they produced a product, no matter what the product was, they wanted to sell that one, over something, the exact thing, produced elsewhere.

All countries, no matter the country, want to help their own, we are no different, they are no different, this is something that people have in common. Every country flies their flag, takes pride in their country, their people, and, they should; and, the US is the same. That is all. All people, no matter where, no matter how far, have this in common, it is not wrong, it is simply, human nature... Your country is home, it is where you hang your hat, raise your kids, and all people of all nations, basically, want the same, a good life, a better one for their families and their kids.

All countries, all people are basically the same in what they want, and if you take a closer look at things, you will see that.

ballvalve
08-16-2012, 12:46 PM
Ballvalve; I don't know what his deal is. He seems to dislike plumbers, and yet he is on here harassing plumbers for entertainment. If he knew anything about plumbing, he would be a plumber. Not a hater of plumbers. I love how you have all these opinions based on your imagination.

I see he likes flags a lot too. My family has been in the country long before it was a country.
I can date it back to 1620. That's 392 years. But I don't need to post flags to let people know I'm a nice person. I have friends from all over. My family is very international too, and so are my customers. I live in the Seattle area, a very nice place to be. I'm kind of partial to British Columbia too. Nice people everywhere it seems.

Thanks for keeping the post up. I don't hate but a few persons on earth, -not because of color or race- and if I said why, you'd agree. we were taught to judge each person individually, black, yellow, Japanese, Mexican. Perhaps I just have the misfortune of living in a area with poor plumbers - I am sure you could make a long list of them in your area too. My plumbing started at about age 7, steamfitting at our tailor and cleaning plant. could turn a mean thread by hand by age 10. Hope the asbestos doesn't get me.

Had a goofy machinist old uncle imported from Slovakia - taught me to make hacksaws, run a mill and metal shaper....and could fix ANYTHING. Never smiled once in his life, mean as a mule with a screw in his butt, was only married for 2 weeks, but hid marbles and pennies in a pile of dirt for me- told me it was from an old bank. Took me many years to figure out his game.

I am sure you and most of the gang here are good at your craft, but you guys gravitate to the big cities, the broken down ones apparently come out in the mountains to hide. I gave up and keep a van filled with several thousands of dollars of parts. Have a grunt that with a bit of coaching can do anything for 1/4 of the cost of the one maybe good guy around. As I said in earlier posts, if I had a cushy govt. job at 50 bucks an hour, and one house, I'd be happy to hire a plumber. But I've got pipe and pumps like bed bugs in a 20$ motel.

Frankly, I think America a bit nuts with flags. After 911, All the phone co trucks flew about 8 on them and it started to get me a bit ill. My father was a drill seargeant for 25 years after the big war, and he would'nt put a flag up either. He knew that patriotism, or defense of ones country comes in ACTIONS, not displays. You don't wear it on your sleeve. And I still have a living brother because he was smart enough to make him do 2 years in electronics college before he enlisted. Thought Vietnam was a deranged mistake.

So my thing is that one of our best actions we can take to keep this country working is to try as best we can to buy something made here, and let the morons in washington know we care.... It helps us today, and it saves us when the next war starts. So American standard has its profit motives, but no matter, its a great start. After all of Terrys talk, I even bought a Toto. Nice flush, but maybe the AS 3 will improve now that its home.

I thought that big flag was rather nice, and that was up just for a armed forces day - probably the only city left that celebrates it. Hawthorne, Nevada. Look it up- i would designate it as one of the most unique towns in America. Absolute middle of desert nowhere, with a 50x25 mile long desert lake, and enough bunkers filled with bombs to keep us all safe after the next and bigger 911.

I do have a problem with my 6 year old - watches old Polish TV versions of "Combat" - the Polish and Russians fighting the Germans. Now all he does is shoot Germans in the yard. Finally got him to use the word 'Nazi' instead.

How about we put the U.S. Toto in the Master, the Kohler in the guest bath, and the Mansfield in the basement?

Cookie
08-16-2012, 09:29 PM
Personally, I like that picture of your son and the big flag. I love seeing them flying. I like how they look. I keep a little one outside my door with my flowers. I can't or could never get tired of looking at our flag. I think, all nations are like that, everyone takes pride and should in their homeland. I love the USA. I think, we do alot to help other nations and people and that makes me proud.

BMartin9000
08-17-2012, 06:07 AM
I personally love Toto and have never had an issue with them. My customers have never complained, so why not just use them?

JerryR
08-17-2012, 07:31 AM
I just can't do it. I know some of you will say some parts are made in the USA, but Toto is still a foreign company. I'm going with the Mansfield Summit 3. Thanks for all comments, advice and especially a great website.

Just last week i had a long conversation with a friend in Michigan. He had a plastics manufacturing business that supplied parts mainly for US auto makers. A few years ago his business dropped off to nothing as US auto companies went overseas for plastic stuff. He lost over a million dollars when he sold his business.

Today he drives a Honda Accord because it's made in US and has 85% US parts. He was going to buy a Chevy but it was only 67% US parts. The Accord now has 250,000 miles on it.

I take an elderly friend to lunch twice a week. Every time he gets into my Lexus he tells me that they bombed Pearl Harbor. He drives a Volvo. Guess where the ball bearings were manufactured for the German Aircraft during WW2?

My Toto drake was manufactured 1/2 in US and 1/2 in Vietnam. I spent 12 long months in vietnam in 1968.

I retired from a high tech US fortune 500 company. By the time I left NONE of the manufacturing was done in the US.

We are a global economy.

ballvalve
08-17-2012, 12:18 PM
Guess where the ball bearings were manufactured for the German Aircraft during WW2?

Answer: They were made in Schweinfurt, Germany where thousands of Americans lost their legs or lives trying to bomb the plants. I have been there. Incredibly, my Army brother lived there during the Vietnam war because of his tech degree, aiming Hawk missiles at the soon to visit Russians. What is breath-taking is how these bright and meticulous people could have built human death factories - on the surface, its the most civilized country on earth. Stop in at Auswitzch in the winter if you want to come home and kiss the ground. My wife acted in the movie Schindlers list, and nearly had a breakdown.

Anyway.... I suppose BEFORE the war, the Germans imported bearings from wherever they could get them. They also Mfg'd. some in Czechoslovakia in underground plants.

I met a OLD woman near a village in Kiev, Ukraine. She was a slave worker for the Nazi's - near the wars end, she hid a downed American pilot in the forest and fed him daily. When the war ended he gave her his watch and rings and all his money, and a jacket, then she walked the 1000 miles or so home. I was the first American she saw since him and I never had so many kisses in my life. She had a fine toilet just outside the door that required no flush valve or water.

I think our main problem in America is the folks that survived the depression are long dead, and no American ever walked a few thousand miles in the winter, eating rotten potatoes and frozen turnips, with all the towns still smouldering brick piles.

Spa's, 60" tv's, Bidets, are softening us up.

As to plastic MFG'g - I would NOT worry. Its the third largest industry in the US and employs 900 thousand people. Now with our 'free' natural gas, you'll see even more. I want to see a plastic TOILET - just imagine the advantages..... And the perfectly formed and smooth trapways you could create.

http://www.plasticsindustry.org/aboutplastics/?navItemNumber=1008

Terry
08-17-2012, 02:41 PM
Delta made a one-piece plastic toilet in the 70's. The shop I worked for had a red one on display. It was feather light. We never installed it, and I don't think we sold any either. It felt kind of flimsy.
I've never felt good about plastic chairs either. There are a few more expensive and more solid ones out there. One thing I like when sitting, is something that doesn't move around underneath me. Unless it was made to be a rocker.


What is breath-taking is how these bright and meticulous people could have built human death factories - on the surface, its the most civilized country on earth.

That has surprised me too. Frankly I'm stunned by it. It was never logical. If you leave politics out of it, we would be the best of friends.

ballvalve
08-26-2012, 05:40 PM
I plumb a little bit, often with about 6+ trades involved. Takes a lot of imagination, and ingenuity, Let me tell you.

With larger pipe in dirtier places than the average plumber. Septics, filtered streambed hydro pickups [and notice the average winter flow after the completion] And finally, a few of my "tools" - you should see what concoction of pipes is under all that beautiful USA made iron! And just for "filler time" Built the house too. No subs.




17141 17142 17143 17144 17145

GoKohlerGo
11-04-2012, 11:39 AM
Pretty sure that Cimarron is not made in the USA.

Yes it is, manufactured, tested, and the porcelain is made right there in Kohler, Wisconsin, USA.

And you probably saw my other post that said about the same thing, I just wanted to reply with quote.

jimbo
11-04-2012, 12:34 PM
Bain Capital is not the boogey-man that this thread and the Osama Bin Obama campaign would have you believe. If Eljer and Crane were making any money, they would not have had to sell out to American Standard at fire sale prices. Fact is Eljer was selling mostly cheap toilets go HD, and we all know that manufacturers do not make any money selling to HD.

Yes, factories were closed and jobs moved offshore. Welcome to the world. The biggest culprit is all us consumers who think we should be able to buy an $80 toilet and get top quality and performance. My hat is off to a real "buy American " guy who really walks the walk.

My hope is that there will come a balancing of the world labor market, resulting in some resurgence of manufacturing here at home. China and India are experiencing labor issues. We will need to keep unions and the uncle sam out of the mix. A good company in the right market situation can be fair and generous to its workers, and reward a dedicated and efficient work force.

Dont forget to VOTE.

Joe Six Pack
11-04-2012, 02:17 PM
Romney's Auto Bailout Bonanza (http://www.thenation.com/article/170644/mitt-romneys-bailout-bonanza#)
How to make money from the auto bail out and send jobs to China.

Of the twenty-nine Delphi plants operating in the United States when the hedge funders began buying up control, only four remain, with not a single union production worker. Romney’s “job creators” did create jobs—in China,

Romney's Bain Investment Record: Three Times the Bankruptcies of Fed Investments (http://truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/item/17618-romney-s-bain-investment-record-three-times-the-bankruptcies-of-fed-investments)

The Wall Street Journal analyzed Bain Capital investments while Romney headed the firm. The Journal found that 22% of the companies went bankrupt within eight years.

So that's 8% failure for government investments in alternative energy firms vs. a 22% bankruptcy record under Mitt Romney's leadership at Bain. So Bain's record is almost three times worse then the feds. So when is a 22% failure rate something to brag about?

My Pain Is Mitt Romney's Gain: My Story as a Sensata Worker (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tom-gaulrapp/sensata-bain-capital_b_1972021.html)
On Monday, November 5th Bain Capital is outsourcing my job to China. On Tuesday, November 6th I'm casting my vote against Mitt Romney.

lynnshev
09-02-2013, 10:56 PM
I had googled if a Kohler Santa Rosa one piece toilet was made in the USA and ended up on Terry's site....long story short at least the Kohler Santa Rosa one piece that I just put in is stamped in the tank Made in USA. Leave it to the wife to look inside!! I'd a got there eventually but hey I found this site! Also, went to Kohler and they are pretty mum about where the toilets are made... nowadays if a company isn't sayin' up front Made in USA I have serious doubts because hey that's a good selling point today.. Anyway that's all I got to say about that.

lynnshev
09-02-2013, 11:04 PM
I know it's a whole year plus but for pete's sake just look at Kohler, find out if the particular model you like is made here, probably is, and then ask yourself if you'd rather buy American and support American jobs or not....just sayin' Also, according to Kohler they are going to be making some small engines overseas with a partner there, can't remember if it's Japan or China. But they have a big plant in Kohler, Wisconsin....like the man says....use the internet, investigate, check out all the reviews...our Santa Rosa from Kohler is quieter and flushes great w/only 1.28 gal water plus is has a partial flush for the liquid only times...Good Product by the buy it was $278 so not cheap but we're happy with it.

wjcandee
09-02-2013, 11:45 PM
I know it's a whole year plus but for pete's sake just look at Kohler,

Once again, just as a reminder, many Totos are made here in the good ol' USA. Toto's plant was running flat-out, producing 22,000 toilets a month, until they expanded it -- something that they did during the recent recession. http://www.globalatlanta.com/article/24682/flush-with-business-japanese-toilet-maker-expands-in-downturn/

lordmoosh
09-03-2013, 02:22 PM
I checked my Toto Carlyle II and could not find a country of manufacture stamp in the tank. Where would I find it?

Terry
09-03-2013, 02:50 PM
It would have been on the box. All of the Carlyle II's that I've ever seen were stamped "MADE IN USA"

wjcandee
09-03-2013, 03:16 PM
our Santa Rosa from Kohler ... flushes great w/only 1.28 gal water plus it has a partial flush for the liquid only times.

Uh. Hmmmm.... How to put this.... Ah! "No it doesn't."

If by partial flush you mean the flush that you get when you press the lever and let go, that's the full 1.28gpf flush.

If you think the "full flush" is what happens when you hold the lever down and drain the tank, uh, no, that's called "misusing the flush lever to dump 3 gallons down the drain".

Modern toilets don't drain the tank to do their flush. They fill the tank to add pressure at the head, and use that pressure to add power to the flush, but they don't empty the tank. In your toilet, the flapper probably closes after about a gallon has passed through, and the other .28 gallon is what it uses for refill. That's at least what the Toto that they apparently copied does. Drain the tank and you're talking about around 2.2 gallons into the bowl and .8 on the refill.

Whatever. Live and learn, right?

lordmoosh
09-03-2013, 04:35 PM
It would have been on the box. All of the Carlyle II's that I've ever seen were stamped "MADE IN USA"

Good to know!

ballvalve
11-07-2013, 04:56 PM
I see a toto rowan cst405mf for 150 bucks delivered. How does this unit flush?

wjcandee
11-07-2013, 09:50 PM
I see a toto rowan cst405mf for 150 bucks delivered. How does this unit flush?

Garbage. Avoid. 2" flush valve. Builder-grade bowl from the Carusoe.

hboogz
11-12-2013, 07:09 AM
Garbage. Avoid. 2" flush valve. Builder-grade bowl from the Carusoe.

safe to say the professionals recommend toilets with at least a 3" flush valve ? Just more efficient, easier to obtain replacements? I plan on purhcasing a toto for my upcoming bathroom reno here in Queens, NY and still trying to figure out which would be the best combination of water efficiency, design, durability and, it would be nice, affordability. =)

wjcandee
11-12-2013, 09:50 AM
safe to say the professionals recommend toilets with at least a 3" flush valve ? Just more efficient, easier to obtain replacements? I plan on purhcasing a toto for my upcoming bathroom reno here in Queens, NY and still trying to figure out which would be the best combination of water efficiency, design, durability and, it would be nice, affordability. =)

The Original Drake Cst744S is a great toilet at a good price. The Drake II cst454cefg is a step up with a lot of standard equipment like sanagloss finish, double cyclone flush for better bowl rinse, and universal height bowl. Both great great values. Figure a street price in the 230 range for the original drake, but you may be able to do even better.

hboogz
11-12-2013, 11:26 AM
The Original Drake Cst744S is a great toilet at a good price. The Drake II cst454cefg is a step up with a lot of standard equipment like sanagloss finish, double cyclone flush for better bowl rinse, and universal height bowl. Both great great values. Figure a street price in the 230 range for the original drake, but you may be able to do even better.

That's great information as always wjcandee, Thank you very much!

ballvalve
11-12-2013, 02:13 PM
Garbage. Avoid. 2" flush valve. Builder-grade bowl from the Carusoe.

Probably one for Terry: Seems like Toto is taking a big risk putting out a bad toilet cheaper [worse] than an american standard mexican one. Won't this harm their name and standing if this unit needs a plunger next to it? Maybe they didnt put their name on the bowl....?