Kink in supply line to water meter where it exits concrete floor

Here's my problem. Recently I've noticed that the supply water pipe to the house which comes out of the basement floor is kinked at the base. I guess this happened when the water meter was installed. The installer must needed a little extra wiggle room to make the connection properly so he gave the pipe a push. I have been in the house for years and it has never leaked. When I feel around the pipe base, it feels dry. Everything seems to be working OK so why am I looking to fix this? Couple of reasons, every time I use the main water shutoff, I get sediments out of all of the taps after turning the water back on. I believe sediments are being trapped in this kink. Fixing this also will also give me higher water pressure/volume. Finally, I plan on replacing my current water heater so if I fix this, then I'm not putting sediments into my new tank.

I think this could be a DYI job. A little bit of hard work but probably will save me a few hundred dollars. Break through the concrete floor, cut off the bent pipe and solder on a new piece. I'm in Canada so I'm affected by the Canadian plumbing code (if that matters).

Additional information:
I was advised to use - K grade copper pipe and probably the supply size is 3/4 inch pipe. Also read that K can also be found in a bendable form. I suppose I could also use an offset connector in a pinch as well.

Crack through the concrete by drilling a series of holes and then using a cold chisel to open up the hole. I hope not to cut the concrete as I worry about the amount of dust that would be create.

My concerns are:

1. Does my plan sound correct?
2. Is there a better way to break through the concrete?
3. Are fittings allowable or should the whole line be replaced? There must be ways to repair this line without a full line replacement. If fittings are allowed, are there special grade fittings? Am I correct in assuming that fittings are all the same (regular house vs. those for main supply lines)?
4. I read that I could also use a sharkbite fitting (like a joiner coupler) as they are rated for burial use. Does that sound good? I read here that there's negative options on using these products where they will be buried.
5. Is soldering acceptable or do I never to use another method like brazing. If soldering is good … regular lead free solder? Propane torch OK?
6. Should I replace all the other fittings that go from the kink to the water meter? Like shutoff valve and threaded coupling.

Thanks for reading.

Down here, any fitting underground should be brazed, NOT soft solder. For that small section, I don't think anyone would bust your chops about using L instead of K. Type K is normally sold as soft copper, in rolls. It does NOT bend easily!

It may be a case of "if it ain't broke....." There is a reason the original installer "tweaked" it a little. Replacing that section might be a lot of work, relatively speaking.

A very short section of restriction acts like a venturi, the fluid speeds up going through it, then returns to its original speed...it's probably not restricting flow much, if at all. Depending on your water supply, it's very common to get sediment/crud flushed out of the lines any time you shut the water off, drain lines, then refill. Unless the kink is significant, it's probably not worth doing anything about.

The kink is NOT trapping any particle, (nor is it reducing your pressure or volume). More than likely they are coming FROM the water heater, not going into it. If you try to remove the "kink", and it appears not to be a significant one anyway, you could be opening a "can of worms". Curved copper, whether "L", "K", or "ACR", will be "ovalled" so a Sharkbite would probably not seal to it.

our code does not allow any solder joints underground. you would want to use a corporation coupling. i wouldn't recommend a sharkbite fitting for any installation, especially not one that can't be easily accessed in the future. u could use type k soft copper or pex. pex with the corporation coupling would also require a ss insert.
As far as busting the concrete, I would rent a jackhammer with chisel bit and go to it.

The only time we have to braze copper water pipe is if it will be located under a concrete slab.

Hackney plumbing said:

The only time we have to braze copper water pipe is if it will be located under a concrete slab.

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He did mention it is coming out of his basement floor. In our neck of the woods, they want copper anywhere underground to be brazed, or flare connector. no soft solder. I don't actually know if they would accept a Ford Corp. coupling.

jimbo said:

He did mention it is coming out of his basement floor. In our neck of the woods, they want copper anywhere underground to be brazed, or flare connector. no soft solder. I don't actually know if they would accept a Ford Corp. coupling.

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So in your neck of the woods they believe a flare connection is better than a solder joint.

Cut the copper pipe above the kink. Use the appropriate sizing tool to correct the kink. Use a slip coupling to join the pipe back together with soft solder. Very little concrete would need to be removed,maybe an 1" or less.

If you dont feel like you have the skill to do this then call a plumber and read off to him what i posted. LOL that way he will for sure know what to do.

Hackney plumbing said:

So in your neck of the woods they believe a flare connection is better than a solder joint.

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That would be a yes.

Actually, the Calif. Plumbing Code ( UPC ) appendix I, installation standards, 2.2 does not specifically require brazed as opposed to soft solder underground. It says brazing may be chosen in applications requiring greater tensile strength to resist vibration, or if subject to temperature and/or pressure cycling.

It DOES also state that mechanical joints such as flare and ground joint unions are used frequently for underground applications.

jimbo said:

That would be a yes.

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You know why they approve flare joints under the slab dont ya? Because they dont feel like everyone has the skill to make such repairs where water can be a factor. I assure you a proper solder joint will out perform a flare joint in all tests.

My test showed that a solder joint is stronger than the pipe itself when using soft coppa.....most pipe under a slab is soft coppa.

Either way is fine with me but I have a preference and there are reasons behind it. 95/5 changed the game.....it is stronger than the old 50/50 people use to use.

Good comments, hac. The code also mentions that brazing changes the temper of the copper, and that fact must also enter into your decision as to what process to use. The code of course is written for people presumably with the necessary skill, but it does also mention that the mechanical joints are useful in applications where the presence of water precludes a heated connection. Think of the street tap. Think of the corp. stop. Etc. Short of line-freezes, there are applications where the presence of water is an issue.

quote; So in your neck of the woods they believe a flare connection is better than a solder joint.

Doesn't EVERYONE? I doubt that a solder joint will outperform a flare joint in MOST tests. It is almost, if not completely, impossible to pull a flare joint apart, but solder joints can be pulled apart. Brazing/silver soldering overheats the material which softens it and reduces its tensile strength. 95/5 did not "change the game", because it was used in the same era that 50/50 was. It was just less tolerant of poor workmanship.

hj said:

quote; So in your neck of the woods they believe a flare connection is better than a solder joint.

Doesn't EVERYONE? I doubt that a solder joint will outperform a flare joint in MOST tests. It is almost, if not completely, impossible to pull a flare joint apart, but solder joints can be pulled apart. Brazing/silver soldering overheats the material which softens it and reduces its tensile strength. 95/5 did not "change the game", because it was used in the same era that 50/50 was. It was just less tolerant of poor workmanship.

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No everyone doesn't and for good reason. A flare joint is not stronger than a soft soldered joint with 95/5. Where are you getting your info????? LOL

The maximum rated internal working pressure for flared joints and copper tube is 175 PSI at 100 degrees.

The maximum rated internal working pressure for 95/5 soldered connections with copper pipe is over 1,000 PSI at 100 degrees.

For up to 1" pipe.

Sorry,I dont make the rules.

jadnashua said:

A very short section of restriction acts like a venturi, the fluid speeds up going through it, then returns to its original speed...it's probably not restricting flow much, if at all.

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This can cause copper water piping to fail. Infact it is a major cause of failure......#1 and 2 on the list of reasons for failure.
The original poster says its on a main line so that could make it worse being it has alot of flow.

One site says the tensile strength of a flare joint is 3,000 psi for 1/4", 2,000 for 1/2", and 1,500 for 1", and that is using a 4 to 1 safety margin.

hj said:

One site says the tensile strength of a flare joint is 3,000 psi for 1/4", 2,000 for 1/2", and 1,500 for 1", and that is using a 4 to 1 safety margin.

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So post a link to your source. I'm using Nibco as my reference and they claim to have developed the flare joint for copper plumbing in 1928

Here is my source. PAGE 46 AT THE BOTTOM.

http://www.nibco.com/assets/copperengdata.pdf

But even so......I tested 1/2 type L soft copper soldered with 95/5 that the pipe failed before the joint did.....I think that was around 4,000 PSI. I forgot but the thread is still around if you care to look. The thread was somthing like...."when will my solder joint fail"

My solder joints are stronger than the pipe.....and I proved it.

Well. we have wasted 3 days arguing about thousands of psi that ain't gonna happen in your house. We still don't know if the poor OP ever got all the advice he needed about how...or whether...to fix his pipe!!!!!!

Now , in the interest of prolonging the debate, how do you interpret the data on page 57. It is the "internal working pressure" and the note at the bottom of that page says:

*Rated internal pressures for Copper Water Tube based on the strength of the tube alone andapplicable to systems using suitable mechanical joints.

We could chew on that one for a while. In the end.......who cares? The OP doesn't care, the plumbing inspector doesn't care, and if he hires a plumber to do it, even money that guy never saw these Nibco charts!!!!!!!!!

The Canadian Building code states...

For all copper tube installed underground outside a building or underground inside a building the joints shall be

a) flared
b) brazed using brazing alloy from the AWS-BCup range.

The op is in Canada so this is what must be used end of story!

The reason for this is movement in the ground that can stress a joint and cause a failure.