New Bathroom

Hi,
I'm trying to work out the details for plumbing a new bathroom.
I carved an area out of our existing laundry room and adjoining closet to put up walls for the new bathroom. The current plumbing in that area are the washer/dryer/utility sink which is inside the new bathroom and will have to be moved outside across the room. I also want to add a new utility sink into the adjoining garage so that I can do my messy stuff in that sink and the other sink can be for laundry.
So, my question is given the current plumbing, e.g. hot and cold water for the laundry and the current utility sink... Will I be able to simply continue copper for the many new fixures off of the current lines? I'll need hot and cold for the shower, for the pedestal sink and one additional utility sink, and one cold line for the new toilet. That seems like lots of new places to run water. Is there some limit of the number of fixtures that are supported ?
I guess the usual drawbacks would come into play here, like if running the washer, you wouldn't want to take a shower. This will be a seldom used shower.

Kohler Devonshire...

I also noted toilet performance comparisons on your site and didn't see mine listed, so I wondered if anyone has had good or bad experiences with the Kohler Devonshire model that I'm about to install?

bathroom

Water is usually the least of your worries. Where do you expect to find a drain for the toilet? The plumbing to the washing machine is not adequate for that. I looked at a job yesterday that was similar to yours with a washing machine right next to the area. But the only sewer pipe big enough for the toilet was 150 feet away at the furthest point outside the house from where the bath would go.

The main drain (3" pipe) is about 25 feet away. I will have to run a new 3" drain to that. That's a whole nuther issue about how to hook into it. And, if you have suggestions, please ...
So, you don't see any issues with continuing the copper connections to each
of the new fixtures?

water

It would be best if you could find 3/4" water lines to connect to, but if 1/2" is all you have you will just have to live with any pressure drop problems that show up.

Would I possibly get pressure drops due to all these additional connected
fixtures? Are there any alternatives?

There's volume and then there is pressure. With all of the valves closed, the pressure will be the same everywhere (well, you will lose a little as you go up in stories). If you only have one item opened at the same time, the volume and pressure should be okay...unless you are trying to run maybe 3 showerheads or fill a large soaking tub in a reasonable time. But, having a 3/4" line as the feed gives you more volume that can provide more pressure when many (or at least a couple) valves are opened at the same time. A disadvantage to a larger line is that (on the hot at least) when you haven't run the water for awhile, there is more cold water in the line to flush out before the hot gets to the end of that long line. This is where some people resort to hot water recirculation systems. This does provide hot water almost instantly, but at the cost of energy consumption, decreased life of the hot water tank (it has to run more often cause you are running cooler water into it often from the recirculator), and complexity.

Depending on what your normal pressure is, you may or may not be satisfied. Just how long is that run for the water?

pressure

jeff_bathroom said:

Would I possibly get pressure drops due to all these additional connected
fixtures? Are there any alternatives?

Click to expand...

You will get pressure drop anytime the volume of flow exceeds the amount of water available. How severe it is, depends on how excessive the flow is.

Hi Jim,
I believe you've helped me with tiling questions in the past. Thanks for your input here as well. I don't think these new fixtures are very often going to be run simultaneously. Currently, water pressure is very good in the existing utility sink, for example.

Vents - AAVs

I've been sort of agonizing over how the new vent system will hook into
the original. I hadn't paid much attention to AAVs til I read some more about them in the Black and Decker book.
Assuming these are ok with local code, wouldn't I want to use these whenever I could? They seem so logical and simple to install.
Drawbacks? Do they need replacement very often? Do they sometimes let in gases so that it smells? Are they maybe not quite as functional as standard vents, e.g. less efficient flush of toilet for example?

With today's mandated low-flow showerheads, unless you are using more than one, it isn't as big a problem as it could have been previously. All new construction and remodels require a valve with anti-scald capabilities, so, if someone does flush that toilet or hits some other water source, at least you won't get that huge shot of hot water.

Thanks Jim,
any thoughts on the AAV's ?

They work, can fail, a normal one is better...use at your own risk.

I think at least the new utility sink may be able to make use of one.
I guess anything with moving parts is not as good.
Thanks.

back from vacation...

Hi everybody,
Happy Holidays...
While on vacation, I did lots of reading in my plumbing books to become more familiar. I have some questions about venting that I hope you all can help me with that I have to resolve before drawing up plans and submitting for approval. I've attached a drawing indicating how I would like to vent the toilet as an alternative to usual venting behind the toilet. I'm wondering
if this is acceptable. The view is a side view of the crawl space under the bathroom subfloor.
What I want to do if feasible, is to run the toilet drain pipe directly beneath the toilet almost to the ground level with a sweeping bend, then have that pipe slope at whatever the correct slope is to the main drain (1/4 or 1/8" per foot). Main drainpipe is about 20 feet from there.
I also would like to insert a 3 to 2, 45 degree Y just below the joists for the vent, run the vent horizontally below the bottom of the joists about seven or eight feet, then up into the adjacent wall to connect to the existing vent system.
So, I guess the two questions are:
1. Can the drain pipe for the toilet go straight down about three feet directly below the toilet then go almost horizontally (with slight slope) to the main drain?
2. Can the vent be set up this way, wherein I'm getting the initial minimum 45 degree angle off the vertical drain, then go horizontal for some feet, then vertical again? I've seen a similar vent configuration in one of my books of a basement toilet, but I wanted to know if any drawbacks? Will the vent work optimally, is this to code, etc.

The vent needs to be above the flood rim of the toilet B4 it turns otherwise if your toilet backs up it could clog your vent. The flood rim would be where the seat sits on the toilet.

Hi Cass,
thanks for your quick reply. I wondered if you have a copy
of the Black and Decker Complete Guide to Bathrooms? If you do,
there's some illustrations and actual photos showing something similar to
what I was asking (pages 118 and 119).
The toilet flange connects to a closet bend then several feet of 3" horizontal drain pipe then a vent T going up, then over to the wall, then up
again similar to what I'm describing. Is this really an incorrect configuration in this book, or is it only important that the connection to the vent be above the high water mark even if part of the pipe goes horizontal after an initial 45 degree angle?

attached a photo

Hi,
I scanned in a photo from the book mentioned above to show what I'm talking about. Sorry the photo is sideways. Rotating added too much size to it so that it wouldn't upload.
If it were right-side up, the pipe on the far lower left is the toilet vent pipe. Note that it goes up, then at a slight angle to get to the wall (I'd say it looks like about 15 degrees, then, 90 degrees up the wall). Since the toilet rim is least a foot above this almost horizontal run of pipe, is this acceptable?

attached this time.

attached is another image showing the toilet flange, drain
and vent (right-side up). Note that the vent starts out greater
than 45 degrees, then slightly greater than horizontal, then vertical.
This is what I want to do. Is this actually incorrect configuration
or not to code?

UPC allows that if you are using wye fittings. (09:13AM picture)

The picture above shows sanitary tee fittings(bad idea)
Just take what the picture shows and change out the fittings with wyes and 45's.
Fittings below the flood level of the fixture should be wye fittings on the horizontal or for a vertical becoming horizontal.