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Jet9174
02-19-2012, 07:27 AM
I am trying to decide on a toilet for my newly remodeled powder room. After researching several sites including yours, my first choice is the Guinevere--for both function and design. I have also been considering Kohler's one piece "Devonshire" similar in design. My question is that our house is supplied by a well and in the past our older American Std. toilets would " sweat" until we had insulated liners installed. Does Toto make any liners for Guinevere and or is there a need to insulate it. I can only find that Toto offers the Drake and Carusoe as insulated options. Would very much appreciate any advice or comments you may have concerning these options. Thanks.

Gary Swart
02-19-2012, 11:25 AM
Let me start by pointing out the the Carusoe is not longer made. (It was not a very good performer) Your concern about condensation may not be as big of a deal as you have been thinking. Low flow toilets are not as prone to condensation as old toilets. Here's why. Modern toilets use only about 1/2 if the tank per flush. So, when the toilet is flushed, only a rather small amount of water is needed to refill the tank. Most, if not all, of this refill water has been sitting the the supply pipe for a period of time and has already begun to warm somewhat, and this water mixes with the already tempered water that remains in the tank. The result of all of this is little, if any, condensation problem. I would be inclined to go with the Drake without a liner. It's an excellent toilet, and if you later found a liner was desirable, add it.

jadnashua
02-19-2012, 05:21 PM
Cold well water could still be a problem, but generally only if the toilet is flushed serially before the incoming water has a chance to warm up to room temp. For more common, random use, with the newer toilets, it's not usually a big deal. One thing that will always work is a tempering valve on the supply - this would require plumbing hot nearby as well as the existing cold, and then a valve mixes in a little hot to raise the temp slightly that prevents it geting into the condensing range.

Hackney plumbing
02-19-2012, 05:38 PM
Cold well water could still be a problem, but generally only if the toilet is flushed serially before the incoming water has a chance to warm up to room temp. For more common, random use, with the newer toilets, it's not usually a big deal. One thing that will always work is a tempering valve on the supply - this would require plumbing hot nearby as well as the existing cold, and then a valve mixes in a little hot to raise the temp slightly that prevents it geting into the condensing range.

Hot water pipe should be near by but the thing is ...if its not circulated then it could be cold and stay cold depending on how far the hot water source is away the tank may be filled before the hot water has a chance to get to the mixer.

With a toilet only using 1.6 or less theres just not much time.

jadnashua
02-19-2012, 06:03 PM
Hot water pipe should be near by but the thing is ...if its not circulated then it could be cold and stay cold depending on how far the hot water source is away the tank may be filled before the hot water has a chance to get to the mixer.

With a toilet only using 1.6 or less theres just not much time.

True, but it at least would be room temperature, not cold from the well on inlet. It would still temper the inlet some, is adjustable, and should suffice, regardless.

An insulated tank won't help if the toilet is used multiple times in a row, either...insulation only slows the transfer of heat, and eventually, the tank will get cold, regardless of insulation or not.

Hackney plumbing
02-19-2012, 06:06 PM
True, but it at least would be room temperature, not cold from the well on inlet. It would still temper the inlet some, is adjustable, and should suffice, regardless.

An insulated tank won't help if the toilet is used multiple times in a row, either...insulation only slows the transfer of heat, and eventually, the tank will get cold, regardless of insulation or not.

If the hot water pipe is in an unheated crawlspace the temp will still be cold. Sure nothings perfect unless you temper the water. I agree with your "fix" but just added to it with the fact the hot water needs to be really close and be hot.