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Jeepnick
02-09-2012, 03:18 PM
I need to run water to a bathroom addition I'm building. I'm using a 3/4" pex run with 1/2" branching off to fixtures. I need to tie into the water pipes and would like to do that at the water heater so as to bypass the rest of the house plumbing which has 1/2" hot water pipe. I'm not replacing the gas water heater at this time as it is still working fine.

All pipe from the service entry to the water heater is in 3/4" copper. I plan to replace the water heater supply lines (they are old and nasty looking) and solder in some 3/4" tees at the same time and transition to my 3/4" pex lines which will then make the 50 foot journey to the new bathroom. Please see the attached diagram which shows how I plan to connect the pex to the system near the water heater.

Is this OK, or should I plan to do something else. I'm set on pex, but not violating code is important, especially since this will all be inspected. I live in Phoenix, AZ. Thank you.

15554

cacher_chick
02-09-2012, 03:38 PM
Plastic piping should not be attached to a water heater. You want at least 18" of copper off the top the heater and then transition to PEX.

UPC Code 604.11.2 Water Heater Connections. PEX tubing shall not be installed within the first eigthteen (18) inches (457 mm) of piping connected to a water heater

Jeepnick
02-09-2012, 03:48 PM
I suppose my diagram isn't that clear. The PEX transition will be near the ceiling which means there will be roughly 3 feet of copper between the pex and the water heater.

Any other considerations? Thank you.

Hackney plumbing
02-09-2012, 05:10 PM
Plastic piping should not be attached to a water heater. You want at least 18" of copper off the top the heater and then transition to PEX.

Is that true with electric water heaters also or is the 18" rule just for gas? If it applies to electric whats the reasoning behind it other than it's code? How far should a pex connection be away from the vent pipe of the water heater? You can install 18" of copper to the water heater but if thats vertical rise and the vent pipe is vertical rise they would still be close to each other......

renstyle
02-10-2012, 08:19 AM
From another layman's POV, it seems fine. 3/4" PEX should handle the 50' distance without much issue. The only real *concern* I would have had was also the WH-PEX clearance, which at 3' you've accounted for (and then some).

I too have heard that while CVPC is not to be run directly to the hot side of a WH (and the cold if WH is gas), PEX can potentially run straight off the WH. Even if it was perfectly safe, I would never chance it if I didn't have to. I've accidentally touched my flue while the WH was running... WAY out of my personal comfort zone when using PEX.

What you did with keeping the 3' lines is exactly what I would have done in your shoes.

hj
02-10-2012, 08:25 AM
The hottest water in the tank is at the top, and it applies to both hot and cold pipes. That heat will rise in the connecting pipes, but lose temperature to the air, which is why they want BOTH lines to have copper for 18" from the tank.

UPC Code 604.11.2 Water Heater Connections. PEX tubing shall not be installed within the first eigthteen (18) inches (457 mm) of piping connected to a water heater

Jeepnick
02-10-2012, 10:24 AM
Thank you guys.

Hackney plumbing
02-10-2012, 12:00 PM
The hottest water in the tank is at the top, and it applies to both hot and cold pipes. That heat will rise in the connecting pipes, but lose temperature to the air, which is why they want BOTH lines to have copper for 18" from the tank.

Do what? So your saying the plumbing code wants 18" of copper because of heat loss??? You dont think copper losses heat? LOL

Hackney plumbing
02-10-2012, 02:04 PM
Come on guys.....They want copper the first 18"of a gas water heater because that part of the vent gets the hottest,especially when the vent is cold and the heater fires...... After that you must still stay at least 6" away from the vent pipe.

At least one pex manufacturer doesn't give two craps if you install pex directly to an electric water heater. Some codes do not allow it because their ignorant and the code is not perfect and thats one of a few reasons why its always changing.

MACPLUMB 777
02-10-2012, 03:48 PM
Wrong hackney sorry to say i found this out the hard way !

The 18" is to keep the plastic from melting from the hot water backing into the pipes this goes for gas or
electric both by the time hot water rises 18" from the heater heat loss is enough to cool the water to below
the melting point of plastic piping ie, cpvc, pex, sch. 40 piping etc.

MACPLUMB 777
02-10-2012, 03:52 PM
Wrong Hackney sorry to say I found this out the hard way !

The 18" is to keep the plastic from melting from the hot water backing into the pipes this goes for gas or
electric both by the time hot water rises 18" from the heater heat loss is enough to cool the water to below
the melting point of plastic piping ie, cpvc, pex, sch. 40 piping etc.

THIS IS WHY IT IN THE U.P.C. CODE BOOK

UPC Code 604.11.2 Water Heater Connections. PEX tubing shall not be installed within the first eigthteen (18) inches (457 mm) of piping connected to a water heater

Hackney plumbing
02-10-2012, 04:06 PM
Wrong Hackney sorry to say I found this out the hard way !

The 18" is to keep the plastic from melting from the hot water backing into the pipes this goes for gas or
electric both by the time hot water rises 18" from the heater heat loss is enough to cool the water to below
the melting point of plastic piping ie, cpvc, pex, sch. 40 piping etc.

THIS IS WHY IT IN THE U.P.C. CODE BOOK

You got so excited you posted it twice!!!

I dont care what code book it's in thats non-sense. Post your source or a link.

jadnashua
02-10-2012, 04:42 PM
I dont care what code book it's in thats non-sense. Post your source or a link.

You seem to want to do things your way, regardless of the code. If you really think it's bunk, petition to have it changed. In the meantime, it behooves you to abide by the codes. When you got your license, you agreed to do this whether you thought it was good or not. You can always do it more robustly, as long as it is still code (code is the minimum standard), but that's between you and your customer and the building inspector, whether you have to satisfy one or not.

Hackney plumbing
02-10-2012, 04:54 PM
You seem to want to do things your way, regardless of the code. If you really think it's bunk, petition to have it changed. In the meantime, it behooves you to abide by the codes. When you got your license, you agreed to do this whether you thought it was good or not. You can always do it more robustly, as long as it is still code (code is the minimum standard), but that's between you and your customer and the building inspector, whether you have to satisfy one or not.


I dont think you understand. No code book says that the hot water coming from a water heater will melt pex and if you keep it 18" away it will not melt. Thats CRAP. and its not in a code book. If it is....some guy in his moms basement wrote the book and named it code book.

Google Zurn Pex installation guide and download the PDF. And read it.

People can have their own opinion but they cant have their own set of facts

Do I know more than most of the code book writers about plumbing? I KNOW I DO...I school inspectors and "plumbing authorities" on the regular.

jadnashua
02-10-2012, 04:57 PM
That close to a flue of a gas WH CAN damage pex or cpvc. Probably fine with an elecric WH, but I didn't think the codes differentiated type.

Hackney plumbing
02-10-2012, 05:06 PM
That close to a flue of a gas WH CAN damage pex or cpvc. Probably fine with an elecric WH, but I didn't think the codes differentiated type.

. Codes may not allow it but that doesn't mean its wrong in practice. WTH in chicago they cant use pvc....what a freakin joke. Code will not allow it.

Zurn expressly says that connecting pex to an electric water heater is perfectly acceptable.

hj
02-11-2012, 07:11 AM
quote; So your saying the plumbing code wants 18" of copper because of heat loss???

Do you have a problem with comprehension? The copper is to protect the plastic from the hottest water at the top of the tank, NOT to "Cool" down the tank.

UPC Code 604.11.2 Water Heater Connections. PEX tubing shall not be installed within the first eigthteen (18) inches (457 mm) of piping connected to a water heater

Hackney plumbing
02-11-2012, 07:16 AM
quote; So your saying the plumbing code wants 18" of copper because of heat loss???

Do you have a problem with comprehension? The copper is to protect the plastic from the hottest water at the top of the tank, NOT to "Cool" down the tank.

I dont think you comprehend that the tube is rated for continuous hot water use. How does the water cool off with a hot water recirculating system? Riddle me that? Do you really think 18" of copper is going to make any substantial difference in temp with the hot water circulating through the system?

Goodluck explaining that one and making any sense.

Infact Nibco only requires the tube be 12" away from a gas water heater........

ZURN requires separation only for GAS water heaters. Zurn says its fine to connect their pex directly to electric water heaters. IS it your position that gas water heaters heat water hotter than electric? Please explain so I can comprehend that....

NIBCOŽ PEX Fixture Connections
• A metal adapter at least 12” long should be used to connect NIBCOŽ PEX tubing to a gas water heater. The tubing
must be at least 6” from the exhaust vent.
• NIBCOŽ PEX tubing can be connected directly to an electric water heater using metal insert adapters.
• NIBCOŽ PEX tubing can be connected to PEX insert accessories as long as the barb meets ASTM F 1807 specifications.
Such accessories include supply stop valves, ball valves, icemaker boxes, washing machine boxes, copper stub-outs and manifolds,

Hackney plumbing
02-11-2012, 07:25 AM
Copied from Zurn.....I guess they dont comprehend well either......

Zurn PEX may be connected directly to
electric water heaters for residential
plumbing applications. Zurn PEX has brass
male and female threaded adapters and
swivel adapters that can be used for this
application.
Zurn PEX must be kept at least 6" away
from the exhaust vent of a gas-fired water
heater. This is easily accomplished by
using flexible water heater connectors.
When the inlet and outlet connections are
well away from the exhaust vent, such
as most heaters with side connections,
Zurn PEX may be connected directly to
the water heater.

Hackney plumbing
02-11-2012, 08:45 AM
More from Viega......

ViegaPEX Ultra tubing is
manufactured to ASTM F876/F877
standards and listed to ANSI/NSF
Standards 14 and 61. It is chlorine
resistance rated for both traditional
and continuous recirculation PEX
5006 (CL5) applications. ViegaPEX
Ultra tubing is rated at 100 psi at
180°F and 160 psi at 73°F.

Temperature and Pressure Ratings:
• 200°F at 80 psi
• 180°F at 100 psi
• 73.4°F at 160 psi

PureFlow tubing should not
be connected directly to gas-fired
water heaters. The high temperatures
of these appliances can damage
the tubing.
When connecting a PureFlow system
to a gas-fired water heater, install a
minimum of 18" of metallic piping
beween the water heater and tubing,
keeping tubing more than 6" away
from the vent pipe. Where local
code allows, PureFlow tubing may
be connected directly to electric
water heaters and used for hot water
recirculation lines which do not come
within 6" of the gas heater vent.

.................................................. .................................................. ...............................................

I hope everyone comprehends this info. You can have your opinions but not your own facts.

cacher_chick
02-11-2012, 08:53 AM
Hackney, It good to see you are becoming educated.

Keep at it.

UPC Code 604.11.2 Water Heater Connections. PEX tubing shall not be installed within the first eigthteen (18) inches (457 mm) of piping connected to a water heater

Hackney plumbing
02-11-2012, 09:14 AM
Hackney, It good to see you are becoming educated.

Keep at it.

Yeah i'd hate for my hot water in the top of the tank to melt my pex. LOL Glad we cleared that ignorant statement up.

jadnashua
02-11-2012, 03:55 PM
Yeah i'd hate for my hot water in the top of the tank to melt my pex. LOL Glad we cleared that ignorant statement up.

The code is apparantly written for all WH. It's not the water, generally, but the flue on a gas WH that can get quite hot. But, if the safety circuits failed, before the T&P opened, the water temperature could easily be above the max value allowed for plastic pipe. If it is separated some, natural radiation will help lower those temps when copper is used to connect. As said earlier, it appears that the code is written generically for WH installation, regardless of type. Could it differentiate, possibly, but the codes are written for those what-if situations, not the generic, normal situation. they don't want it to fail with a typical failure path, and a failed thermostat that allowed the water to get to the point where the T&P opened, is one of them.

the codes are written and updated based on the collective experience of a huge number of situations, updated materials choices, and inputs...if you really think your one opinion is better than that, petition to have it changed, and see, if it has merit, there's a chance. Until then, the terms of your license dictate doing it per code.

UPC Code 604.11.2 Water Heater Connections. PEX tubing shall not be installed within the first eigthteen (18) inches (457 mm) of piping connected to a water heater

Hackney plumbing
02-11-2012, 04:16 PM
The code is apparantly written for all WH. It's not the water, generally, but the flue on a gas WH that can get quite hot. But, if the safety circuits failed, before the T&P opened, the water temperature could easily be above the max value allowed for plastic pipe. If it is separated some, natural radiation will help lower those temps when copper is used to connect. As said earlier, it appears that the code is written generically for WH installation, regardless of type. Could it differentiate, possibly, but the codes are written for those what-if situations, not the generic, normal situation. they don't want it to fail with a typical failure path, and a failed thermostat that allowed the water to get to the point where the T&P opened, is one of them.

the codes are written and updated based on the collective experience of a huge number of situations, updated materials choices, and inputs...if you really think your one opinion is better than that, petition to have it changed, and see, if it has merit, there's a chance. Until then, the terms of your license dictate doing it per code.

So 18" of copper saves the day. Think about that for a minute. One guy says hot water will melt the pex...now you say its because the water heater may malfunction. Sure thats why the water heater has high limit cut outs if the thermostats fail electric or gas. I assure you 18" of copper isn't going to protect pex if the heater malfunctions.

Who says I'm not doing my work to code? Do you really think the code is the final say? I can have a licensed enginneer sign off on alternate plumbing systems and tell the inspector to find another job to thump his code book on.

A cold vent when a gas water heater fires gets hot at the draft diverter and the immediate pipe at the start of the vent. As the vent heats up and the draft starts to flow it cools back down. Thats why they do not want it connected to a gas fired heater unless the heater has side inlet connections.

Show me one official document that says pex needs to be 18" from the heater to protect the pex if the water heater malfunctions. You cant do it.

Hackney plumbing
02-11-2012, 04:27 PM
What do you supose the heat loss is of an 18" piece of copper that could be insulated would be? The code doesn't say you cant insulate the copper.

If the code intended the 18" of copper to be a "heat dump" they wouldn't allow you to insulated it.

Further more......I was informed in a previous post that the hotest water in the heater is at the top. I totally agree with that. So if you have 18" pieces of copper vertical rise from the top of the heater,where do you suppose the hottest water will be? again whats the heat loss of an 18" piece of copper.

I have another question for you. What if the T&P valve fails to open. Would you rather have a heater with 18" of copper between your pex or would you want pex directly to your electric water heater?

Are you going to rely on the 18" of copper to "cool" the water down? Remember the code is written for the "what if's" as you say.

jadnashua
02-11-2012, 04:48 PM
If the thermostats have failed, and the T&P won't open, you won't have to worry about what's installed as it is all going to blow up.

The goal is to protect the plastic pipe from the gas WH flue. The code (apparantly) doesn't differentiate as to the type of the WH, so if it says 18" of copper to the transition, you put 18" to the transition...petition the code people to change that if you wish, until then, follow the code. Failed thermostats could also allow the water to get hotter than is allowed for the piping, which might be a factor in their thoughts, but I do not know. Feel free to take it up with your local inspector and petition to have the codes ammended...

Hackney plumbing
02-11-2012, 04:53 PM
If the thermostats have failed, and the T&P won't open, you won't have to worry about what's installed as it is all going to blow up.

The goal is to protect the plastic pipe from the gas WH flue. The code (apparantly) doesn't differentiate as to the type of the WH, so if it says 18" of copper to the transition, you put 18" to the transition...petition the code people to change that if you wish, until then, follow the code. Failed thermostats could also allow the water to get hotter than is allowed for the piping, which might be a factor in their thoughts, but I do not know. Feel free to take it up with your local inspector and petition to have the codes ammended...

Why do you think every code everywhere prevents the installation of pex to an electric water heater? It doesn't and some places I do plumbing the code has no authority to even step on the property. You really think the U.S. goverment gives two craps what some honky tonk inspector says? He'd nevr make it on the base.....

This is about whats technically right and whats wrong.....not what a code book says. Now that every theory you guys have had is not holding water(no pun intended) the old standby comes out....."The code says so" LOL

UPC Code 604.11.2 Water Heater Connections. PEX tubing shall not be installed within the first eigthteen (18) inches (457 mm) of piping connected to a water heater

Hackney plumbing
02-11-2012, 05:24 PM
You guys act like I'm telling you the world is flat. I never said it wasn't a code anywhere.

When you learn the reasons for codes is when you become a better plumber. Thats all i was discussing is WHY. I got answers from the water melting pex to the water heater malfunctioning and then finally because the code says so.

Ok I think I've made my point and laid out some knowledge and the references for it. Just like that 6' long trap weir I posted.....when a large corporation comes to town and wants to build somthing a certain way.....the code book is thrown out the window. Politics come into play. Dont ever think the code is not influenced by politics because it is just like everything else.

Terry
02-11-2012, 05:29 PM
Hackney,
When a home owners asks if it's okay to do something, they are not asking for "Hackney's" permission, they are asking if a plumbing or home inspector will approve it. There is insurance liability to be concerned with too. If a homeowner has installed something out of "code", does the insurance pay off?

We try to answer questions here with the intention that wherever the installation is, that it will "pass" a plumbing inspection.
This is why I require a location by state or province so we have a better idea as to how to better answer the questions.

Hackney plumbing
02-11-2012, 05:37 PM
Hackney,
When a home owners asks if it's okay to do something, they are not asking for "Hackney's" permission, they are asking if a plumbing or home inspector will approve it. There is insurance liability to be concerned with too. If a homeowner has installed something out of "code", does the insurance pay off?

We try to answer questions here with the intention that wherever the installation is, that it will "pass" a plumbing inspection.
This is why I require a location by state or province so we have a better idea as to how to better answer the questions.

I totally agree and would never tell a homeowner to violate their local code. I didn't do that on this thread and never implied it.

To answer your question about the insurance paying off,yes they will. if they didn't half the claims they process wouldn't get paid around here. I've delt with insurance companies thousands of times and they have never asked me if the plumbing was "to code" Not yet anyway. I agree with you they should tho.

Jeepnick
02-12-2012, 08:04 AM
Although I hesitate to re-enter my own thread, I was reading the tangent topic and had a thought. Wouldn't the 18" of copper before pex be more to protect the pex from heat traveling up the continuous metal in the heater as its generated by the heater itself, rather than the hot water? I can tell you I have touched the pipes a few inches above my heater after its been running and found them to be hot enough to burn skin...much hotter than the water they contain. They cooled rapidly as they rose away from the heater.

Hackney plumbing
02-12-2012, 08:11 AM
Although I hesitate to re-enter my own thread, I was reading the tangent topic and had a thought. Wouldn't the 18" of copper before pex be more to protect the pex from heat traveling up the continuous metal in the heater as its generated by the heater itself, rather than the hot water? I can tell you I have touched the pipes a few inches above my heater after its been running and found them to be hot enough to burn skin...much hotter than the water they contain. They cooled rapidly as they rose away from the heater.

This just discussion,please dont feel that way. Pex is rated for continuous hot water use at 200 degrees and 80 psi. That will burn skin and burn you quick. The pipes are heating up in that area because of the vent pipe...and thats the reason for the separation. The 18" of separation from a water heater also includes tankless water heaters per code........there is not a ligitimate reason for this....other than thats the way the code was written.

ballvalve
02-12-2012, 11:18 AM
A nice 24" copper flex goose neck gives you a free union, a heat trap, and protection from a bad temp switch on any type unit.

Get out your test bench, heat pex to 190' and pressure test. I wouldnt want that "free" pressure relief valve in the house.

BUT - if your flue gas can melt PEX, you need a new water heater, or we are really making garbage.

Hackney plumbing
02-12-2012, 11:29 AM
A nice 24" copper flex goose neck gives you a free union, a heat trap, and protection from a bad temp switch on any type unit.

Get out your test bench, heat pex to 190' and pressure test. I wouldnt want that "free" pressure relief valve in the house.

BUT - if your flue gas can melt PEX, you need a new water heater, or we are really making garbage.

I dont need to the manufacturers have provided plenty of information and have already done the tests. I posted the temp ratings and pressures. Thats not the failure temps and pressures.......those are working temps and pressures. Failure would likely be at least 25% higher.

For kicks...have any idea why the plumbing code would approve the use of a safety temp/pressure relief valve set at 212???? Wouldn't you think the temp limit would be much less than 212? Thats boiling at atmospheric pressure/sea level.

Why dont they require a temp valve to pop off at around 180.......wouldn't you think that would be safer?

I'll look for your response later,right now I'm going to Walmart and check out their plumbing supplies and maybe buy some ammo...they have cheap prices on ammo. LOL

I enjoy our conversations and mean no disrespect. I hope the feeling is mutual.

ballvalve
02-12-2012, 11:53 AM
Watts makes relief valves for 80- 100- 120 just for WH ers. I think the factory rigs should all be at 125 psi.

Hackney plumbing
02-12-2012, 02:37 PM
Watts makes relief valves for 80- 100- 120 just for WH ers. I think the factory rigs should all be at 125 psi.


Thats pressure,I'm talking about temp. Current standard residential water heaters the relief valve relieves itself at 212 degrees.

MACPLUMB 777
02-13-2012, 03:27 PM
Sorry Hackney but you have it wrong again while 212 degrees is the boiling point of water at sea level

by codes " all " temperature and pressure relief valve open at 210 degrees or less they are designed to fail

at 210 or less then per the governing board atsm, aga , etc.

Hackney plumbing
02-13-2012, 05:36 PM
Sorry Hackney but you have it wrong again while 212 degrees is the boiling point of water at sea level

by codes " all " temperature and pressure relief valve open at 210 degrees or less they are designed to fail

at 210 or less then per the governing board atsm, aga , etc.

I will readily admit when I'm wrong and I made a mistake. Instead of mis-speaking I mis-typed. As far as being wrong "again",please point out any other mistakes you see and quote them for me.


I just reviewed your earlier post on page one of the thread. I suggest you review the thread and all the information I posted from manufacturers AND answer me how pex would be used in a hot water circulating system if your theory that the 18" of copper is to prevent the hot water from melting the pex.

If that were true you couldn't use it for hot water circulation. How much do you think the water would cool off in 18" of copper while its being circulated?

Hackney plumbing
02-13-2012, 07:07 PM
Here is some info on CPVC connected to a water heater. Both Gas and Electric.

Nibco actually comes out and says why you need seperation. It is nothing to do with hot water melting any type of plastic. Its about the distance from the flue/draft diverter.

.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .....

Some plumbing codes contain detailed
requirements for connections to gas or electric
storage type water heaters. Determine whether
your code has such requirements and satisfy
them.
If no detailed requirements exist, use the
following information. On electric water heaters
CPVC can be piped directly to the heater with
special metal-to-CPVC transition fittings (photo
L). On high-efficiency, gas water heaters that
use plastic vent piping, CPVC can be connected
directly to the heater just like the electric
water heater connections (photo L). On all other
gas water heaters there should be at least 6
inches of clearance between the exhaust flue
and any CPVC piping (photo K). Twelve-inch
long metal nipples or appliance connectors
should be connected directly to the heater so
that the CPVC tubing cannot be damaged by
the build-up of excessive radiant heat from the
flue.

.................................................. ..................................

Here is the PDF document,there is alot of useful information in it. I suggest everyone read it.

http://www.nibco.com/assets/cpvc_manual.pdf

jadnashua
02-14-2012, 03:14 PM
As I said earlier (and Terry posted the UPC code verifying it), the codes (often) do not differentiate the type of WH, and dictate metal for that distance to the WH...the fact that on an electric it may work is irrelevant unless and until the code changes. Your argument about what might work is irrelevant unti and if the code changes to account for the various types of WH that could be installed. Don't particularly care if you like it or not...the goal here is to tell people how to install one and pass code inspection. you can speculate all you want about what might work, but that's not the issue or the point.

Hackney plumbing
02-14-2012, 03:40 PM
As I said earlier (and Terry posted the UPC code verifying it), the codes (often) do not differentiate the type of WH, and dictate metal for that distance to the WH...the fact that on an electric it may work is irrelevant unless and until the code changes. Your argument about what might work is irrelevant unti and if the code changes to account for the various types of WH that could be installed. Don't particularly care if you like it or not...the goal here is to tell people how to install one and pass code inspection. you can speculate all you want about what might work, but that's not the issue or the point.

I'm not arguing what might work...I'm stating what the manufacturers say work. BIG difference. Show me speculation...I've stated facts and posted links to the facts.

I never told anyone to ignore their code. Basically I have lost respect for plumbing codes because the writers do not respect it as a whole. Code changes are bought and sold everyday. Just like the 6' long trap weir I showed you.

I'm invited to every code review for my opinion and my opinions are respected by the inspectors. The model codes are ammended on a regular basis. Basically that means its stricken from the code and that section is re-written.

My inspectors have taken the "code book" and ripped out pages and thrown them in the garbage because they do not agree with them.......and wrote their own. Thats whats up.

Other places may have done the same thing........so just because a guy lives in BigJoke code land doesn't mean their are not ammendments and deletions.

For example I worked in a city last week that requires a 1.5" drain for a water heater pan......ANY size water heater.

Requires a 2" trap for a bathtub
Requires a 2" trap on a laundry sink.
Requires a cleanout at the sewer/public sewer system junction and it MUST be a two way. PERIOD. I went to court with that and won. It wasn't written and they enforced it. Now its written.

Shall I continue? The model or national codes do not require this stuff.......I've basically heard enough about the than thou codes. It doesn't impress me. Its a guide...its not the BIBLE.

Terry
02-14-2012, 03:52 PM
On any large job, the plumbers always consult with the inspector that will be looking at the job. You want to find out what his quirks are before you imagine the layout and order the material.

Hackney plumbing
02-14-2012, 04:06 PM
On any large job, the plumbers always consult with the inspector that will be looking at the job. You want to find out what his quirks are before you imagine the layout and order the material.

And that is CRAZY. Code is code. One of those punk kids cost me 1/2 a days work and 50 bucks in fittings because he failed my job. I have pics of what he failed. You should have seen his face in court.....he wasn't the one thumping his code book that day,I was.

I've taken them to task several times and won every time. In 3 different states. One I made more money on the lawsuit against the city than I did on the job. its your tax dollars at work. I stand up for my rights.....I pay tax. If I have to follow the law then they do too.

liquidplumber
02-15-2012, 07:45 PM
In my most local inspection jurisdiction our inspectors will recognize manufacturers recommendations. So, the example of pex pipe being directly connected to a water heater could technically pass inspection as long as you can prove that the manufacturer allows for it. That being said, The "no pex within 18 inches of the water heater" has been code as long as I can remember and I have never found a single installation that wouldnt allow me to comply with the code.

Ill argue with an inspector if they are wrong and what they want is either riddiculous, or impossible. In the case of the water heater, I see no point in fighting.. theres no real gain, and chances are good the inspector will nit pick you to death from now on and cause you more trouble then you care to deal with. I would save the fight for one you really need to win. Sometimes ya just gotta say "is this the hill I want to die on?"

I too have been involved with both local and state level code updates and changes. Ive had some very nasty fights with several inspection jurisdictions as well. Ive won them all, but the victory is not without a cost. Like I say, its best if you save your fights for something of critical importance.

Just another quick thought, Im pretty sure that installation might even be faster to use the ready made copper or stainless flex connectors on a water heater than it is to actually install pex adaptors and crimp the pex. Code complient, easy, and fast. a total win win

Hackney plumbing
03-28-2012, 04:12 PM
Does it really matter what the code says if its not getting inspected as long as what your doing works? If it works it doesn't matter what the code says if the code doesn't know about it.

Thats what I'm feeling on the forum.

Terry
03-28-2012, 04:59 PM
That's what you are feeling?
Are you kidding us?

You're the one that likes running PEX straight to a water heater, not the plumbers.

Hackney plumbing
03-28-2012, 05:08 PM
That's what you are feeling?
Are you kidding us?

You're the one that likes running PEX straight to a water heater, not the plumbers.

Running pex directly to an electric water heater works. Some manufacturers even state that in their instructions. So what if the code doesn't cant keep up with the methods and means of repair. But hey like you said they are not in the repair business like charlottes not in the repair business.

The code is all about law and lawyers.

Pipewrench
03-28-2012, 05:44 PM
Call a plumber......