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View Full Version : Toto annoyances after many years



ajalberg
02-08-2012, 11:16 AM
I am getting older, but am still ambulatory - I am male, and like many males I get a little drawn up in the morning. As it is early and my eyes are still asleep, I often sit to pee. With the new self closing toilet seat, I find I am peeing between the seat and the rim of the toilet as often as not. Now this may seem like a silly problem, but it really is beginning to _ _ _s me off. Some times I stand up and have peed all over my underwear. I also find that all my Drake toilets smell a little like urine between twice monthly maid service( not from the peeing between the seat, as I clorox spray the toilet every time). After watching the rinse patterns, I can see that none of my Drake Toto's do a good job of totally rinsing the bowl. I even find the same problem in a new ultramax one piece I installed in my downstairs bath. I am looking for something new and probably a cyclonic rinse that is not set so low that it gets splattered on. The cyclonic Toto looks like it is low enough in the bowl that you might have to resort to hand cleaning after a messy toilet episode, which nullifies the whole cyclonic cleaning feature.I'm also interested in not wetting myself in the morning.

Joe Six Pack
02-08-2012, 11:21 AM
Dude, any seat you use will let you pee on your underwear. You don't take any responiblity for peeing your'self?

He'res a tip, hold you r thing that you pee with, and pint it down.

jadnashua
02-08-2012, 12:18 PM
Was there caulk installed around the base of the toilet? If not, any dribbles can easily get down and flow partially underneath the toilet, eventually smelling pretty raunchy. That's one reason why most codes require it. The other reason is to help hold the toilet in place...not a big deal on say vinal since the toilet will 'dig' in and probably stick, but much more of an issue on say hard, smooth tile. Toilets come in both round and elongated, if yours is round, next one, buy an elongated one. And, you'll find that an ADA or comfort height toilet will be much easier on you than the older, lower ones as well.

arfeller
02-08-2012, 01:09 PM
Once I stop laughing I'll put some serious thought into a solution. I'm not sure if this is a troll....

Some thoughts, do you have an elongated bowl or round? I think an elongated bowl would help with this problem. I don't suspect it is related to the brand as toilets all use the same seat sizes (well most) so I think you would have this problem regardless. I have the toto ultramax with a washlet and absolutely love this toilet. Best toilet i have ever had.

Hackney plumbing
02-08-2012, 05:09 PM
I would bring that same discussion up the next time you go to your DR. Maybe he can suggest how to better take care of your problem than a plumber could.

Gary Swart
02-08-2012, 05:13 PM
You know there is a very simple answer to this, and it won't cost you a cent. Sit down. Yes, I know men are "supposed" to stand, but trust me, it won't make you less of a man to sit. As we age, a lot of us lose the flow power we used to have and tend to dribble toward the end. Sitting saves all of that problem too. Been sittin' for years.

Hackney plumbing
02-08-2012, 05:21 PM
You know there is a very simple answer to this, and it won't cost you a cent. Sit down. Yes, I know men are "supposed" to stand, but trust me, it won't make you less of a man to sit. As we age, a lot of us lose the flow power we used to have and tend to dribble toward the end. Sitting saves all of that problem too. Been sittin' for years.

My man says he is already sitting. Sounds like a problem we cant help with.

Gary Swart
02-08-2012, 06:05 PM
Didn't notice the statement that he was already sitting. My error there. I will bet you have a round bowl. We constantly advise folks that round bowls are not male friendly. This is exactly what we mean by that statement. You might try sitting back more, but that's not a sure thing.

Hackney plumbing
02-08-2012, 06:09 PM
You know what they say.....the shorter horses have to stand closer to the trough. In this case even sitting is not close enough. Thats rough.

Terry
02-08-2012, 06:09 PM
I think Joe Six Pack had the answer there.
It's a directional thing.

ajalberg
02-09-2012, 06:10 AM
I thought I might have to deal with some bathroom humor, as of course we humans are mostly embarrassed by our toilet rituals - stall doors fans etc. But I thought this site was one where actual professionals could have some sort of intelligent discourse. I would like to know if anyone knows why men's urinals always look like an elephant has whizzed on the floor. If you can answer that question correctly, then I will be interested in your comments.
I am no longer a fan of Toto toilets. I have witnessed them clogging in many more setting than you can imagine. I also despise the Uni Fit drain kit. If you look at it carefully, you will see that when they manufacture the curve, they crimp the flow from a cylinder to an oval. That's why they make ell's for copper tubing, as when you bend tubing, you restrict the flow. Plus they have created a hard edge where the pipe turns down. I actually lost $1,500 on a job in which I installed 2 Guenivere toilets for an older woman who wanted ADA toilets. I installed the toilets, and she called me back to complain about them not flushing completely. I observed that she was correct, and yanked them out at my expense and installed the Ultra max for her - no kit. Better flush, but I ate the toilet cost.
So if Bill Gates doesn't like the Toto, then I feel like I'm in decent company. I also designed and built furniture for many years, and I know seating pretty well. Mongoloid bodies are normally smaller in stature than Caucasian, and being Caucasian, Toto toilets just don't fit my butt. And call me OCD, but I can't stand to see any toilet in my house with flecks of crap hanging around the bowl after my wife, a guest, or myself, flushes the toilet. I'm old enough to know that the old cyclonics cleaned the bowl well, even if they did stop up fairly well also. And for the most part they never smelled - I'm not blaming the 1.6 toilets in general, as I am really against defecating and urinating into the water I also drink. Bottom line, is I'm wondering if any of you serious builders/plumbers or research oriented folks have researched any of the other toilets out there - their seat comfort - their ability to self clean - and last but not least - the ability to be clog free. By the way, I usually only install the elongated bowl, as with the round ones, I end up hurting myself as my whizzer smacks the seat, which incidentally causes me to grab and aim. I do have a urinal in my bathroom, and generally use it except when I'm in early my morning stupor. I also have a bidet in both my and my wife's bath. So really, I'm not a moron, and I am asking a reasonable question

Terry
02-09-2012, 09:34 AM
I've sold more then 150 of the Guinvere and Soiree collection. Funny that most of that is repeat sales, and they don't have the complaints that you do.

The seats on those bowls are fairly flat.
The seats on the old Ultramax had some dish, but the new seats have been redesigned to be fairly flat.

If someone is constantly constantly plugging up a 1.6 bowl, then you fall into the medical condition bowl requirements.

Caroma (http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?7750-Caroma-Dual-Flush-watersense-toilet-review) dual flush from Australia
Kohler Highline (http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?40566-Kohler-Highline-Comfort-Height-Elongated-1-0-gpf-toilet-Review-and-Pictures-K-3519) pressure assist with Flushmate

Medical conditions with toilets (http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?16796-Large-hard-stools-(spinal-cord-injury)-(parkinson-s)-current-toilet-clogs)

Neither one of these will wipe down the bowl for you, but they should handle your solids and paper.

You will still have to aim though. Even the kids are taught to aim.

Here is the outlet of the Caroma 305 bowl with 3" trapway.

http://www.terrylove.com/wc/caroma/caroma_305_horn.jpg

ballvalve
02-09-2012, 10:10 AM
Maybe a 1/8 dose of that little blue pill at bedtime, and remember to point before you shoot would solve it all.

A open front seat would be your easiest ticket.

ajalberg
02-09-2012, 11:34 AM
I have no doubt that you have sold many Guinivere's as that is what you do. And I was not putting all the blame on the Guenevere. I'm talking about Toto's in places I have installed them, all of different makes and ages. And as a matter of the not flushing, it was her loose stools that wouldn't flush clean for this particular lady. As I was replacing her low Toto Ultra Max toilets with the Guenevere, I had a very good testing method. Her original old Ultra Max and the replacement new Ultra Max without the floor kit both worked just fine. I also gave my sister both Guinevere's and installed them in her house, after I spent some time sanding down the rough edges inside the floor kit so it would flow as perfectly as possible, they both seem to work fine.My real issue is with the kit, and the fact they squeeze a round circle into an oval. Now not being a fluid mechanical engineer, I can't say for certain that constraining a round pipe by squeezing it instead of forming it into a full circular trap, but as far as I'm concerned it does constrain and limit the 3" initial toilet opening to some degree. As far as flushing, try missing a full flush(slipping your hand off the lever) with a Toto and then re flush it again, and see if you can't get it to stop up. I've done that myself hurriedly several times with my Toto's. I know you like, and promote, the Toto products, and saying I no longer love Toto's is somewhat blasphemous. Even though I no longer love them, I have installed and recommended them to all my family and friends houses. I only have Toto. But as a retired General Contractor, I used to just buy what everybody said was the best, or at least what my budget and plumber had in mind. As a consumer, I now have the advantage to make judgements based on my own personal experience. I learned many years ago why men's urinals look like a pee storm when I was active in Gen Contracting. All my contractor friends wanted to be preppy, so all of us wore Polo shirts khacki shorts and Topsiders - I guess to show we really were gentlemen contractors. The first time I peed in a urinal wearing shorts, I realized it wasn't guys with bad aim that peed on the floor, it was blowback and splatter of our own urine. So aim all you want boys, you are still going to have urine on your pants or legs whenever you use a urinal. I still wear shorts as much of the year as possible, and have used every conceivable type of urinal. They all spatter back on you. It sort of creeps me out, but when you gotta go...That being said, I think urinals are poorly designed based on personal observation. Same with toilet seats. As I am now somewhat of a sculpture, I am going to re make a Toto Seat so that it fits comfortably. Geeze, I was just wondering if anyone on the whole internet world had experience with comfortable toilet seats that were ergonomically correct. And yes my mom did teach me how to aim. That being said, I will continue my own lonely research, and as Jimmy Valvano once said" never ever give up" Thanks for your input, and Ciao

Terry
02-09-2012, 11:40 AM
You should be able to push down and release; that gives you a 1.28 gallon flush.

If you have to hold the handle down and empty the tank, then there is something wrong somewhere.

If the bowl isn't full to begin with, like the fill tube is not directed into the overflow, then you will get a partial flush.

And for some people, I sell the Caroma and the Kohler pressure assist.


I have the Unifit installed in my main bath.

I see a few manufactures advertising no splash urinals. It is a problem.
The old Gerber Pressure assist from ten years ago, used to spray your leg when you stood near it and flushed. That's been fixed with the later ones.

Kohler
http://www.us.kohler.com/onlinecatalog/waterlessurinal.jsp?sect=1&section=2&nsection=2&nsubsection=2

Terry
02-09-2012, 02:02 PM
Here are a few urinals that I believe are designed with less splashback in mind.

http://terrylove.com/images/k-4917.jpg

Kohler K-4917

http://terrylove.com/images/as_4945.jpg

American Standard

http://terrylove.com/images/UT104_zoom.jpg

TOTO UT104

ballvalve
02-10-2012, 09:51 AM
and the fact they squeeze a round circle into an oval. Now not being a fluid mechanical engineer...

They must have been to Rome and Paris and New York and Chicago, where no hydraulic engineer would have ever built anything but an oval sewer in the days of brick and mud.

Runs with bison
02-10-2012, 02:57 PM
I'm still a bit puzzled by this one. Either the original poster has a lot more hydraulic pressure than most of us (urinal blowback) or simply doesn't aim. For me aiming isn't necessary when seated with an elongated (it's necessary with a round though simply to avoid unwanted contact with the rim...yeck!) If you aim straight forward, expect spatter from a urinal. I've always been more concerned about any dribble effect than spatter--another reason I like elongated toilets.

My little boy has tremendous hydraulic pressure and generally doesn't aim at night. His results match the OP's. When I've made him sit he had the same problem.

Haven't used an adaptor so I don't know if that is the source of incomplete flush issues, but the three Drake 1.28 gpf toilets I've installed have been flawless--completely unlike the old 1994 toilets they replaced.

I will agree however, that the back of the bowl rinse is not as vigorous on the original Drake. So I am tempted to try a Drake II. (Terry can this be done simply with a bowl swap or is the tank different too?)

ballvalve
02-11-2012, 03:24 AM
Why arent ALL toilet seats open fronted? Who needs that area to crush your gonads at night and women to rub their privates on? And how the hell do they aim? They have some weird plumbing.

The kids toilet inserts often have a nice splash shield - maybe a utility knife and a tupperware bowl would make a nice adult flow director.

shree
02-12-2012, 07:01 PM
Speaking of urine splashback, ever since the popularity of the elongated bowls, I have come to DESPISE them. With the shape of the bowl, for my female anatomy, the urine hits the portion of the elongated bowl that is not covered with the water spot and I am often drenched with urine all over my legs, bottom, etc. Due to the popularity of these in the workplace, it's a daily disgusting occurrence. It's not that I am not sitting back far enough, I am 6'1" and sit all the way back, so I am assuming that it must be happening to women everywhere.

As I am searching for a replacement toilet for my home, I am disappointed to find fewer round bowls these days. The other option would be a washdown toilet as the bowls in these have steep sides and nothing seems to splash. Good luck with that as those are very $$$$ on my budget. Combining that with needing a tall toilet and I am looking at a $400 toilet- help! Suggestions, anyone?

Hackney plumbing
02-12-2012, 08:36 PM
We told a guy he should sit down so I'ma suggest you try standing up. It's only fair.

Gary Swart
02-12-2012, 09:11 PM
I certainly will not dispute the lady's complaint about urine splashing on her, but I will say that I have 2 Toto toilets with elongated bowls and my wife has never experienced the problem she describes, and this is the first such complaint that I have seen registered on this forum. I do wonder if perhaps her toilet is a standard height rather than ADA or Comfort Height. At 6'1" an ADA or Comfort Height would certainly be in order for her and this might well cure the problem.

Runs with bison
02-13-2012, 12:48 AM
Speaking of urine splashback, ever since the popularity of the elongated bowls, I have come to DESPISE them. With the shape of the bowl, for my female anatomy, the urine hits the portion of the elongated bowl that is not covered with the water spot and I am often drenched with urine all over my legs, bottom, etc. Due to the popularity of these in the workplace, it's a daily disgusting occurrence. It's not that I am not sitting back far enough, I am 6'1" and sit all the way back, so I am assuming that it must be happening to women everywhere.

Sounds like you are doing the opposite of what might work. Have you tried not sitting "all the way back." Sit forward, just like what one of those detestable round bowls does in effect. If you sit back you are aiming your plumbing toward the back of your legs rather than the water spot. Even if you have the same angle down into the toilet, the angle to the rim is shallower if you sit back rather than forward. (Think "soccer goalie defense" against an unimpeded opponent, you rush forward to create a poor shot angle for the attacker.) Posture enters into this so the tilt of your hips could be the determining factor alone or in combination. Hit the water spot and this is unlikely to be an issue.

I'll have to quiz my wife and daughter about this...

Gary Swart
02-13-2012, 10:24 AM
After think about this for a few hours and talking to my wife, I have a couple of observations. First, there clearly IS a problem, so we need to see if we can determine what the problem may be. There really can only be two possible causes. Either the toilet design is to blame or the problem lies with the user. Let's use some logic here. There have been many thousands of low flow toilets sold since they became the law of the land. While not everyone subscribes to this forum, there are many who bring concerns and problems, but until now, not one that I can recall has ever had this complaint. This makes me skeptical that the problem lies in the design of the toilet. I think Runs With Bison makes a good point about sitting location. I also still wonder about the bowl height. I also wonder if perhaps the problem could be peculiar to this user's anatomy. Let me make it clear that I realize this gets into a very personal subject, and I mean no offense, but perhaps the apparatus is just not pointing in quite the right direction. I might be something to be discussed with a urologist.

ajalberg
02-13-2012, 01:23 PM
I realize now, I'm pretty much discussing this with you Terry,
Bottom line is all I want to do is replace my Drake with a toilet that has a more comfortable seat, and that doesn't leave visible streaks where the water flows and misses areas of the bowl when it runs straight down the bowl during flushing. Even my ultra max leaves the same streaking. I notice a great deal of the flow is set for the front of the toilet, and I wonder why the emphasis of flow is not based in the rear 1/2 of the toilet. It reminds me of the big rain shower heads that don't get enough water when they are used with the shower side of a tub assembly. You have to plumb it backwards, or drill the outlet hole to a larger size. I also understand the realities of the uni fit, but whenever I install them, just like a rain shower, I fix them up so they will work better than they are manufactured. I personally don't like hard lines anywhere in a flushing system. So I sand down the uni fit. I'm pretty sure a cyclonic rinsing toilet will suit my needs. I just wanted to know if there were any other great toilets on the market. I have been using Toto's for over 10 years, I think based on your site, and no one has really made any recommendations of other toilets in all this time. Is there no competition? thanks for persevering aj

Runs with bison
02-13-2012, 08:32 PM
I asked my wife and daughter about this individually (since we transitioned from round to elongated bowls a few years ago) they both frowned and looked at me as if I was nuts. So as Gary says I'm not suggesting this isn't happening, but rather it is more likely a function of the user's anatomy and/or posture when urinating. I'm not inclined to believe it is a medical condition although that is possible. There are many body types and postures.

I expect it is caused by the angle one sits on the toilet. As an analogy think of chairs. A chair that I find comfortable may be intolerable for others and vice versa...some seats or seat backs torture me while others don't seem to experience any discomfort from using them. Differences in posture and body mass have a lot of influence on which ones we prefer (my posture has never been great even when I was boxing competitively and running distance races in my 20's and 30's.)