outlet blew up

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abbazabba69

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hello, a while back i had an outlet severely blow up, i mean very severe. all i was doing was plugging in a lap top that was not turned on, it was a two prong plug by the way. when the plugs made the connection, it literally blew up, like a huge ball of electrical fire came bursting out of the outlet, it melted one of the prongs about halfway down, started fire, burned me pretty badly. the building was built back in the 70's, maybe mid 70's or so. it is a rental property, i have been told by others it was a combination of things that caused it, first, the age of the outlet, there are numerous in this unit, which a terribly loose, i either have to bend prongs, or put tape over the outlet to keep even light two prong coords from falling out of the socket, let alone any actually weighted ac adapters, and second, the breaker did not trip right away, have lived here about 5yrs at the time of the fire, and was told the reason it did not trip right away was because the breakers had not been "worked out" as in turned off and back on a couple times a year. they did replace the one outlet right away, but me noticing there were close to 10 or more outlets in the unit in same condition, very loose, obviously very old, it took them close to a year and a half to replace the others. i have kept all the old sockets as legal action was my only recourse, as i was hurt pretty badly in the fire, and was in physical therapy for almost a year to recover. i have never even heard of this kind of thing happening, the outlet blowing up, nor the working out of the breakers.
my questions are, is there anyway to determine the age of the wall sockets? has this sort of thing happend to anyone else? and really, do landlords have the right to say they have no liability in an event such as this? **added later- not really looking for the legal advice, but if anyone knows how to tell the age of these outlets or has had this happen to them or anyone they know :) Thank you for the help so far guys, very much appreciated
 

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BobL43

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hello, a while back i had an outlet severely blow up, i mean very severe. all i was doing was plugging in a lap top that was not turned on, it was a two prong plug by the way. when the plugs made the connection, it literally blew up, like a huge ball of electrical fire came bursting out of the outlet, it melted one of the prongs about halfway down, started fire, burned me pretty badly. the building was built back in the 70's, maybe mid 70's or so. it is a rental property, i have been told by others it was a combination of things that caused it, first, the age of the outlet, there are numerous in this unit, which a terribly loose, i either have to bend prongs, or put tape over the outlet to keep even light two prong coords from falling out of the socket, let alone any actually weighted ac adapters, and second, the breaker did not trip right away, have lived here about 5yrs at the time of the fire, and was told the reason it did not trip right away was because the breakers had not been "worked out" as in turned off and back on a couple times a year. they did replace the one outlet right away, but me noticing there were close to 10 or more outlets in the unit in same condition, very loose, obviously very old, it took them close to a year and a half to replace the others. i have kept all the old sockets as legal action was my only recourse, as i was hurt pretty badly in the fire, and was in physical therapy for almost a year to recover. i have never even heard of this kind of thing happening, the outlet blowing up, nor the working out of the breakers.
my questions are, is there anyway to determine the age of the wall sockets? has this sort of thing happend to anyone else? and really, do landlords have the right to say they have no liability in an event such as this?
sorry to hear about your injuries. Are you sure one of the receptacle's screws did not touch the metal box and shorted out. If that were the case, the screw would be badly burnt/vaporized.
 

hj

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HOW could the unit draw current and cause the "explosion", if it was turned off, unless the transformer also "melted"? If the problem was caused by your power supply unit, then that is NOT the landlord's responsibility. If the loose outlet caused an "arc" when the unit was plugged in, then it would be the landlord's responsibility, IF HE KNEW about it. Did you ever call him and tell him that you had to "tape" things to keep them in the plugs?
 

abbazabba69

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i had used this outlet pretty regulary, the laptop, powersupply are fine and are still in working order(still use that same laptop to this day), all i had to do was replace the coord that plugged into the wall, like a dummy coord, pretty standard for playstations, laptops, as well as other electrical devices, as for with the manager, had numerous conversations with them, and emails stating this and other problems in the unit that existed in here since the day we moved in, just never got responses or action completed for most of them.
 

Jbfan74

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Sorry to hear about your injuries, and I hope you are doing better.
With that said, coming to an internet forum and asking legal questions is not smart.
The only person that can answer your questions is a lawyer.

We can speculate what might have cause the problem, but not a single sole on this forum was there to look at the end result.

My advice, such as it is, is ask that this thread be deleted and find a lawyer.
 

abbazabba69

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already have one, i was mainly looking for a way to check the age of these outlets and see if anyone had heard of this happening before, not so much the legal advice, although, everything is welcome. to be honest, i have done home/rental maintenance for close to 10yrs myself, but we are talking maintenance, easy stuff, replace this, repaint that, i would never claim to be a journeyman of anything, but am decent at what i do.
 

DonL

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already have one, i was mainly looking for a way to check the age of these outlets and see if anyone had heard of this happening before, not so much the legal advice, although, everything is welcome. to be honest, i have done home/rental maintenance for close to 10yrs myself, but we are talking maintenance, easy stuff, replace this, repaint that, i would never claim to be a journeyman of anything, but am decent at what i do.


The age of the outlet would not really tell you a lot. It should have a code on it.

It was probably better than what you can buy today.

When they get loose or worn out it is best to replace them.

You are lucky that it was in a metal box and did not burn the place down.
 

Cacher_Chick

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I too would speculate that the outlet was loose in the box and the screw or exposed wire shorted to the box.

Personally, I would blame the person who knew the outlet was loose but continued to use it anyway.

The way liability works in this country, it will be a case of whoever has the most money/best lawyers, and little to do with common sense.
 

Drick

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The outlet appears to be from around the time of the construction of the building and is likely original. Homeowners and landloards rarely replace all the outlets except during a total remodel. It is unlikely that the fact the outlet was making loose connections had anything to do with the fire. More likely the outlet itself became structurally compromised due to age/use or as was suggested above a screw terminal on the side of the outlet came in contact with the metal junction box the outlet was installed in. However your real problem was that the circuit breaker failed to trip. Exercising circuit breakers is of dubious benefit IMO . Nobody does this, and while it may result in a slight increase in the holding threshold the breaker should have popped off the second it detected a dead short. You should check who the manufacturer is for you circuit breaker panel and report back here, particularly if the panel is Union Pacific.

I'm not a lawyer and do not live in your state, but have had a fair number of dealings with the court system and I'm failing to see why this is going to be a difficult case for you to win. Your landloard can claim he has no liability in this event. He is flat out lying to you, but he can say it. All landloards - at least in the Northeast anyway - are required by the bank that underwrites their loan to carry insurance to cover events like this. If they own the place free and clear they could probably roll the dice and hope they don't get sued, but that is like not buying fire insurance for your home - a stupid move. You are a renter. Here in the northeast, non traditional property maintenance is not your responsibility unless it is explicitly stated in the lease (and even then there are limitations on what type of maintenance you can be assigned responsibility for).

IMO the reason they delayed the replacement of additional outlets in your apartment is it amounts to an admission of guilt of poor maintenance. When it is just one outlet they could try -"oh but we were never notified of a problem and it was only with that one outlet". When it is practically every outlet that song isn't going to fly in court, it will be viewed for what it is - poor maintenance.

A little off topic advice: You have lived in that apartment for 5 years. Go thru your old photos and see if you captured a picture of an old outlet. If you did now take another picture of that same outlet now that it has been replaced. When you take this picture make sure there is also a copy of a current newspaper in the shot and save that paper to bring to court if this ever goes that far (I have money on them settling with you the day before the court date - they already know they will lose). These pictures provide undeniable proof that the outlets have been changed since you moved in. You have now proven that it was an apartment wide problem that your landloard should have been aware of and points toward poor maintenance. Your attorney should also be requesting that your landloard turn over to you a copy of the electrician's bills to repair the damaged outlets as well as the one to replace all the outlets as this information is non privileged, relevant, and accessible and will help make your case.

And when you finally move make sure you clean the place so that even Martha Stewart would be proud. Then go out buy a newspaper and photograph the entire place with that paper appearing in the corner of each shot and save the paper. Your *** is now covered. If your landloard tries to keep your security deposit falsely claiming damages go back to your lawyer with your pictures and tell him to ask your landloard for receipts as proof of repair of the so called damage.

-rick
 

Jimbo

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If you have to "bend the prongs" of a cord to make it stay in an outlet, THAT outlet is worn out. It may have been a good one, or a cheap one, but NOW it is worn out. For the lawsuit, a qualified electrical engineer could testify to that. There is a device to test whether a receptacle is properly holding the plug...it is called a receptacle tension tester. You can find that on the internet. Again, for the lawsuit, your lawyer would have a qualified electrical contractor inspect the whole house. Remember that to present evidence at trial, the contractor would have to have the device currently calibrated.

http://www.professionalequipment.com/receptacle-tension-tester-1760-lss/circuit-testers/



Just a general observation: The "builders grade" receptacles used in house construction are far from "top quality" but they ARE UL listed and approved, so you have no grounds to criticize the device itself , but rather you would have to attack from a maintenance standpoint...the landlord failed to ensure that the house REMAINED fit for habitation. This is why the lawyer will want $500 per hour!

Unless you can find one to take it solely on contingency, there will be a LOT of up front $$$$$ to pay for all those experts and inspections.
 

hj

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quote; When you take this picture make sure there is also a copy of a current newspaper in the shot and save that paper to bring to court if this ever goes that far

All that will show is that the action was taken AFTER the date of the paper, because there is NO WAY to tell that it was taken ON THE DAY the paper was printed. Even then, with the ability to "PhotoShop" pictures there is even the possibility that the paper could be superimposed on an existing picture to falsify the dating.
 

Ballvalve

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Its not going to court, as the landlords insurance will be happy to settle. find a lawyer with the smallest possible take.
 

Kreemoweet

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The age of those old receptactles really doesn't mean anything. I know of places that have receps 50 to 80 years old,
in daily use with no problems. I have seen dozens of "blown up" receps, your picture is pretty typical. I have had quite
a few brand new receptacles crumble and fall apart in my hand as I was trying to install them. A short in a receptacle
can very well cause a burning arc without tripping the breaker, no evidence there of a faulty breaker. Unless you had
an electrician come out and document unsafe conditions in your apt. and can demonstrate your slumlord was notified
of same and failed to act in a reasonable time period, it's hard to see how a legal action could be fruitful.
 

Drick

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The age of those old receptactles really doesn't mean anything. I know of places that have receps 50 to 80 years old,
in daily use with no problems. I have seen dozens of "blown up" receps, your picture is pretty typical. I have had quite
a few brand new receptacles crumble and fall apart in my hand as I was trying to install them. A short in a receptacle
can very well cause a burning arc without tripping the breaker, no evidence there of a faulty breaker.

I too have seen blown up outlets and arcs that have caused fires that did not trip breakers in time. The way the OP described the arcing makes me think it SHOULD have been enough to trip the breaker which makes me want to know more about the panel. You are right that it likely may have nothing to do with it though.

Unless you had an electrician come out and document unsafe conditions in your apt. and can demonstrate your slumlord was notified of same and failed to act in a reasonable time period, it's hard to see how a legal action could be fruitful.

He doesn't need to demonstrate unsafe conditions in the apartment, the landloard did this for him when he proceeded to change out other outlets not involved in the fire AFTER the fire. It would seem to me all he needs to do is prove that he was injured by an electrical component failure. In Massachusetts you only have to prove injury due to failure. You do not need to prove you were injured by something you previously notified your landloard about. The fact that it can be proved that it was do to poor maintenance (and this is done by proving that multiple outlets have since been replaced) is just a bonus.

-rick
 

Drick

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quote; When you take this picture make sure there is also a copy of a current newspaper in the shot and save that paper to bring to court if this ever goes that far

All that will show is that the action was taken AFTER the date of the paper, because there is NO WAY to tell that it was taken ON THE DAY the paper was printed. Even then, with the ability to "PhotoShop" pictures there is even the possibility that the paper could be superimposed on an existing picture to falsify the dating.

Exactly, by using a newspaper you are proving the state of something on or before the day the picture was taken. If you have a second picture, you can now prove the state was different at some other point in time. And while I will not go into the details, digital editing of images is almost always detectable.
 
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Jimbo

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. And while I will not go into the details, digital editing of images is almost always detectable.

But digital production of hundred dollar bills is pretty slick! It will get you a fun day at the track, followed of course by 15 to 30 at Leavenworth!
 

Kreemoweet

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@drick: I cannot dispute anyone's assertions as to matters of law, but if it is as you say, then it's a shameful
miscarriage of justice. Noone should be held guilty/liable unless the evidence shows that to be the case.

I think we all know tenants sometimes do foolish and/or dangerous things, and end up causing personal injury or property damage.
It would be pretty outrageous to automatically assume negligence by the landlord.

I really fail to see how replacing receptacles can in any way be construed as evidence of anything, let along negligence. Perhaps the landlord just got
tired of listening to complaints. Perhaps he/she just heard some talk about legal action, and got nervous. Its common as hell to replace electrical devices
just to change the color scheme, or just because they're "dirty", or "old". We really don't even know for
sure what happened with the exploded receptacle ... sometimes posters forget to include ... "pertinent details".
 
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