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janels
12-14-2011, 03:37 PM
I am wondering if I need to make changes on a new toto installed by a plumber who shimmed the back of the toilet at a slant equal to one bubble length, which i felt when I first used it. The floor is level front to back on both sides of the toilet. the shims were added to make it stable but I think it isn't right to have it so off level (back to front). When the level is on the side of just the rim, front to back on one side it reads level, but not when the level is on top of the seat going down the middle of the bowl front to back.

Also, the wax ring was about 64 degrees and the box said it should be at least 70 degrees when installing would this make a difference in how it seated and maybe caused the extra shimming problem??

What should I do?

cacher_chick
12-14-2011, 04:02 PM
If the floor is not perfectly flat, the toilet will rock and the wax seal will be compromised. In this case the toilet must be shimmed to prevent it from rocking, but the shims can be installed in a manner that will allow the toilet to be level.

The problem that might exist when one does this is that the gap between the floor and the toilet becomes greater, to the point that it may look bad. When I have needed to shim, I try to keep all the shims in near the back of the base so that the front of the base stays on the finished floor. If the floor is really screwed up, then more drastic measures are in order.

mtcummins
12-14-2011, 04:15 PM
shimming is fairly normal. That sounds like an awful lot of shimming though on a level floor... is the toilet flange really high? Floor really out of plane (not flat)? Something has to be pretty wrong to have that much lift on a toilet. a full bubble out of level is a long way out if the floor below is level.

jadnashua
12-14-2011, 04:32 PM
If the flange is high or not sitting flat on the finished floor, then adding a hard, cold wax ring, the toilet may be either sitting on the edge of the flange, which is holding it up, or it's not fully compressed onto the wax. Third possibility is that the toilet is defective, which happens, but is rare on a Toto. Is the floor tiled? you sure it is level? Another thing, if he used a nut to anchor the flange bolt to the flange, if he used a thick washer and nut, it may be holding the toilet up. When you set a toilet, you should be able to feel it smush the wax, and essentially, it should stop when it hits the floor.

Gary Swart
12-15-2011, 10:05 AM
It puzzles me why any shimming was needed at all if the floor is level and the flange properly set. (Should be on top of the finished floor.) Even a slightly elevated flange, while not correct, should not require shimming. Jadnashua's thoughts on the wax ring should be considered and explored. A wax ring should be at room temperature when installed. Since it's winter and you are in Pittsburgh, if the wax ring was sitting in the plumbers truck, it would very likely be way too cold to compress properly. If it was my toilet, I'd pull it, and start over. Set the toilet in position without any wax ring. It should set solidly on the floor all the way around with no rocking. If it doesn't, then shimming is needed, but from your description, I'm thinking no shims need. Then use a new wax ring that has been in the house for awhile, like overnight. The ring should not have a plastic funnel, and should be just a standard size ring. To help in setting the toilet squarely on the flange, most of us use a couple of extra nuts on the flange bolts. Put the bolts in place, then put a nut on each one to hold it in place and upright. Put the wax ring in place and lower the toilet straight down over the flange bolts. Apply body weight to compress the wax ring until the toilet rests on the floor. Now put the washers and nuts on the flange bolts, torquing evenly and not overly tight, just nice and snug. The flange bolts are not intended to pull the toilet down, you would have already done that, and too much torque can break the bolts. You could call you plumber back to redo the job, but frankly, I wouldn't have much faith in him at this point.

mtcummins
12-16-2011, 12:10 PM
It puzzles me why any shimming was needed at all if the floor is level and the flange properly set. (Should be on top of the finished floor.) Even a slightly elevated flange, while not correct, should not require shimming. Jadnashua's thoughts on the wax ring should be considered and explored. A wax ring should be at room temperature when installed. Since it's winter and you are in Pittsburgh, if the wax ring was sitting in the plumbers truck, it would very likely be way too cold to compress properly. If it was my toilet, I'd pull it, and start over. Set the toilet in position without any wax ring. It should set solidly on the floor all the way around with no rocking. If it doesn't, then shimming is needed, but from your description, I'm thinking no shims need. Then use a new wax ring that has been in the house for awhile, like overnight. The ring should not have a plastic funnel, and should be just a standard size ring. To help in setting the toilet squarely on the flange, most of us use a couple of extra nuts on the flange bolts. Put the bolts in place, then put a nut on each one to hold it in place and upright. Put the wax ring in place and lower the toilet straight down over the flange bolts. Apply body weight to compress the wax ring until the toilet rests on the floor. Now put the washers and nuts on the flange bolts, torquing evenly and not overly tight, just nice and snug. The flange bolts are not intended to pull the toilet down, you would have already done that, and too much torque can break the bolts. You could call you plumber back to redo the job, but frankly, I wouldn't have much faith in him at this point.

That would be in Madison, WI, but that's probably a good bit worse than Pittsburgh, where I'm from (not the OP). Anywhoo...

I'd be much more worried about cracking the base of the toilet than breaking closet bolts personally... Either way, def shouldn't be pulling the toilet down with the bolts. If you can't seat it with your body weight, the wax is too hard.

No disagreement here though, you should pull that thing and check if it sits flat w/o wax. If it does, no reason that it should be shimmed with wax.

Runs with bison
12-17-2011, 09:06 PM
While you've got the toilet off, check the level of the flange. Is it badly cockeyed, too?

hj
12-18-2011, 07:18 AM
when you say the "seat" is not level front to back, that may NOT have anything to do with the toilet not being level. You have to put the level on the toilet bowl itself to determine levelness.