Whirlpool Flame Lock water heaters, reviews, troubleshooting, repair and support.

[Terry]

Troubleshooting, repair and support for the Whirlpool Water Heater.
recall, parts, reviews, warranty, manual

A readers email,

I read the thread regarding the Whirlpool Flame Lock water heaters. I also own a Whirlpool Flame Lock water heater like those described (FG1H4040T3NOV), and have had the same problem several times. Last week the thermocouple burned out again, and Whirlpool insists that the problem is related to the air intake screen.

I replaced the thermocouple (which I think I could now do blindfolded), but this time tried something else. I popped out the round viewing plug that allows you to see the pilot light when lighting and checking the water heater. I'm sure it isn't recommended, but my water heater is no where near combustible material or vapors, so I'm not worried about it. I originally popped out the plug the day the water heater was installed because the ignitor wasn't working and I resorted to using a match on a long stick. At that time I replaced the viewing plug. In removing it after this last thermocouple replacement the water heater now has a new source for air that is approximately 1" in diameter.

Other than the safety aspects, which I believe are minimal, do you think this will supply enough fresh air to the burner compartment to keep the thermocouple from burning up?

Thanks,
Tim in Fort Worth

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/homeowners/whirlpool_water_heaters.html

Whirlpool Water Heater pictures (http://www.terrylove.com/whirlpool/)

http://whirlpoolwaterheaterrepair.com/

[jimbo]

It would be very hard to say anything to you except you have violated federal law, local building codes, and have probalby voided your fire insurance.
If the additional air provided by that hole is enough to "fix" some problem, then it is SOME PROBLEM!

The Whirlpools have attracted a lot of negative attention. Is yours still under any warranty? I think I would be leaning on Whirlpool for some answers. If you got it at the big blue box, it seems they should take it back, even if WP won't fis it.

[master plumber mark]

I am presently repairing about 2 -5 of these dogs a month...
for an average of $250 with me supplying parts


go look at my web page to see what is wrong
with this brand of water heater.......


you got to clean the bottom of the heater screen
or all your troubles are in vain.........

These units need to be cleaned about 3 times a year
becasue they suck up lint and hair like a vaccuum sweeper...

its all there with actual pics of the problem.....

just scroll down to the WHIRLPOOL SECTION
with pictures
and its all there for the world to see

http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryiii/

IN MY HONEST OPINION
the people -that desigend this water heater at
AMERICAN WATER HEATERS are
totally incompetent morons......

someone, someday, is going to get seriously burned or killed
tampering with this brand themsleves

and then their will be a major RECALL, and LAWSUIT
and I hope that-- LOWES , WHIRLPOOL< and AMERICAN WATER HEATERS
who makes this piece of JUNK gets the pants
sued off of all of them..
for still selling them to an unsuspecting public...

(for about $100 dollars less than I can put a good one in for)


I am makeing pretty good money repairing them every week,
but I would rather seem them re-called and taken off the market

http://www.terrylove.com/images/mark/mark_wh_wp_01.jpg

http://www.terrylove.com/images/mark/mark_wh_08.jpg

dust, lint, cat hair, dog hair, people hair.....ect
http://www.terrylove.com/images/mark/mark_wh_02.jpg

[jimbo]

Terry, have you heard back from the reader who sent in that email? Wonder if he has been able to get his problem fixed in proper manner.

[Terry]

Jimbo,
I just sent Tim an email asking how things went.
Hopefully I get a response.
If nothing else, I'm replacing an old water heater in a home I'm buying this week, so the information at least helps me.
Thanks Mark.

Terry

[Guest]

Jimbo:
> It would be very hard to say anything to you except
you have
> violated federal law, local building codes, and have

> probalby voided your fire insurance.
> If the additional air provided by that hole is
enough to
> "fix" some problem, then it is SOME PROBLEM!

In looking at the information I found on the Internet
I would agree that the thermocouple issue is "SOME
PROBLEM". I'm not sure how the absence of the viewing
plug is a safety issue, being that it still provides
less of an opening to the burner than any older water
heater I have seen. The difference is that the hole
provides a direct source of fresh air to the pilot
light in addition to the screen on the bottom of the
unit. There is also a direct line of sight between
the pilot light and the fresh air source.

> The Whirlpools have attracted a lot of negative
attention.
> Is yours still under any warranty? I think I would
be
> leaning on Whirlpool for some answers. If you got it
at the
> big blue box, it seems they should take it back,
even if
> WP won't fis it.

The water heater has a 9 year warranty. The first
time it happened I wanted to exchange the water heater
for another brand, but Lowes said they wouldn't do it.
I called Whirlpool and dealt with them for a while on
the phone, but they wouldn't take it back either.
They sent out a replacement thermocouple, but for some
reason, in the next few days I also received a box
with another thermocouple plus regulator unit. That's
strange, since I never reported a problem with the
regulator.

This last time, I was told some strange things by
Whirlpool customer Service. The informed me that they
no longer provide RA #s that allow the customer to
pick up the part at Lowes, and that I would have to
purchase the part myself and ask Whirlpool for
reimbursement. If I wanted it sent by Whirlpool there
would be a $5 charge for S&H. Evidently Whirlpool has
paid some coin in maintaining the warranty. The
customer rep I talked to agreed to send one to me and
waive the charge, but this would be the last time they
did so.

I hung up the phone, but called back about 30 minutes
later with some additional questions. Low and behold!
In the next several days I received my thermocouple.
The next day I also received another thermocouple.
Customer Service apparently duplicated the order.
What is also interesting is that one of these
shipments also contained two plastic screen pieces
that are designed to wrap around the bottom of the
water heater and act as a primary filter to keep dust
away from the main filter on the bottom of the water
heater. The instructions indicate that only one strip
is used, so I guess they sent me an extra one. Each
strip will only wrap about half-way around the heater.

What's funny is that I have heard several different
stories from Lowes and Whirlpool about this over the
several times I have had to deal with it. The last
time I drove all over the city to various Lowes and
none of them had the part. They said there was a "bad
lot" of thermocouples. Whirlpool denied it. Most
recently, the first rep I talked to said the part was
"doing exactly what it was supposed to" by burning
out.

So in answer to your question, no the problem isn't
fixed in the "proper manner". But because I don't see
any immediate or critical safety issues I'm going to
leave the plug out as an experiment to see if it
corrects the problem. If it doesn't I would think
that there is more to this issue than a throttled air
supply from a dirty screen. It's strange that I
haven't seen anything on the .gov sites about this.
Maybe the feds aren't aware of the problem.

Tim in Fort Worth

[master plumber mark]

everyone knows about this problem but the consumer...



http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryiii/



Lowes knows, whirlpool knows, american water heaters know


they sell them because peopel think that they are
saveing a substantial amount of money over having a
plumber install one for them....

people dont factor in LABOR ISSUES into that cheap price
when they buy it.... so they pay through the nose

http://www.abigailsworld.com/showReview.cgi?id=5015&wrapper

some people have paid for repairs more than once in less than a year..



I feel that someone is bribeing someone in high places
to keep this situatioin from becomming a major recall for
AMERICAN WATER HEATERS which is presently
owned by some canadians. lol


good luck and be careful whatever you do...

[Cass]

Came across my first Whirlpool gas heater with the problem. We'll see what they say on monday when I call.

[master plumber mark]

you got to clean the air intake from
underneath with a steel brush and clean
the inside screen too.....

or your repiars can literally all be in vain within
an hour of the repairs....


I dont know if I would even warranty the repairs for more than
30 days.....

I had one go bad that was 9 months out
from my original service call... what do you do for them??


you can get the parts at lowes...for around 85 bucks....

the only sure cure to their crummey unit
is to get more air into the unit somehow....

thats really pretty simple to do,


but that is up to you to figure out....

http://www.terrylove.com/images/mark/mark_wh_wp_01.jpg

http://www.terrylove.com/images/mark/mark_wh_08.jpg

dust, lint, cat hair, dog hair, people hair.....ect
http://www.terrylove.com/images/mark/mark_wh_02.jpg

[Cass]

I have it figured, but I am going to try to get a new heater out of them.

[master plumber mark]

thats the best route, claim its leaking....


better yet , claim its leaking and try to get an
in store credit for it and
then go buy a Bradford White instead.

http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryiii/

[Cass]

Well I got the new tank and set it on solid blocks in such a way as to be able to clean the air intake. It came with a screen to wrap around the base but I decided not to use it. If it didn't work I would not be able to get to the air intake as you can't set it on blocks and have the screen work. I am going try making a different type of screen setup my self.

[master plumber mark]

cass, you mentioined that the new Whirplool Dogs

now come with a screen that wraps around the bottom

of the bottom of the heater??


have they increased the size of the air intake>???

[Cass]

No. All they have done is made some kind of filter that wraps all the way around the bottom of the heater filtering the air B4 it gets to the air intake.
It goes from the floor to the bottom of the heater. I don't know what they would tell you to do for an uneven floor. It might work but....Im sure it was designed by the same engineers as the heater so I don't trust it :)

[master plumber mark]

aint that something.... the stupid idiots..

its so simple to fix, but those arrogant enjeneers

cant admit they have made a lemon...


and wont do what it takes to make it right,,,


well it keeps me busy.....http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryiii/

[RRW]

After reading the horror stories I put a strip of Honeywell air filter pre-filter mesh around the bottom of my Whirlpool. So far so good. After looking at the pictures I am thinking it might be worth a try to clean the bottom filter with a propane torch, at least that would singe all the lint to ashes. (This is not a reccomendation as I have never tried it) RW

[master plumber mark]

I would not try burning off the lint or

dirt with a torch........you might melt or afix the dirt

to the screen.....

or singe off your eyebrows.....

-------------------------------------------------------------------
here are some pics of a praticulary nasty dirty one I
just tangled with last week....


I AM SAD TO REPORT THAT I LOST---------AND IT WON..

http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryii/ (http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryii/)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
on another note I got a call from some lawyers in Chicago that
are getting together a class action lawsuit against Whirlpool
and the FLAME LOCK MESS


they are sniffing around right now looking to file
a class actioin lawsuit over this water heater and it will probably
be happenning up in Michigan real soon.



I got the impression that their is actually more then one group of lawyers

"smelling blood in the water" because I got the impression that

their was a race on to be first one to file.

sort of like sharks and a feeding frenzy LOL

[Cass]

I also tangeled with one 3 weeks ago. What I did was attatch a 1"
90 to the end of a vacume with duck tape and slowly went over the air intake area which was clogged with lint/dust. This worked great and cleaned the screen completly. Replaced the thermocouple and we were off to the races.

[jtjgvle]

OH NO! I just installed one of these Flame Lock water heaters last night in my house! I see this thread had been dead for a while but I wonder if any one has any new ideas about hwo to avoid this. What happened with the sight glass being removed?

[Dunbar Plumbing]

OH NO! I just installed one of these Flame Lock water heaters last night in my house! I see this thread had been dead for a while but I wonder if any one has any new ideas about hwo to avoid this. What happened with the sight glass being removed?


If there is a "B" in the serial tag number supposedly this corrects the thermocouple issue but does not address the flamelock setup problems.


Don't attempt to remove that sight glass in your unit; wipes out your warranty instantly and your home insurance will not cover any damages caused by flash fire in the event that a fire occurred.

[jtjgvle]

Thanks, I'll check to see if I have a "B" hopefully so since I just bought the thing presumably it was "new stock". Does this "fix" make the thermocouple last longer or does it just allow any old standard thermocouple to be used?

[jtjgvle]

I do have the "B" model number, hopefully it solves at least some of the problem.

[Dunbar Plumbing]

Does this "fix" make the thermocouple last longer or does it just allow any old standard thermocouple to be used? .



No, all it does is take care of the thermocouple issue they had but it still requires that specific type AFAIK.

[master plumber mark]

The dead thread comes alive again....

their is a class action lawsuit in California right now

Their is one in Illinios too.....


and what does whirlpool and American Water Heaters do????

Go to Lowes sometime and check out the new
"energy smart" gas flame lock water heater
with a special "honeywell" gas valve.....

It Looks very impressive at first glance,
but it still is the same old dog
and they have not increased the air intake
under the unit at all, so it will probably
have the same old problems too...

give it 2 years in a laundry room and it will
be gasping for air too


the enjeneers at Whirlpool are some real smart cookies......





http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryiii/

[Tim in Fort Worth]

Go to Lowes sometime and check out the new "energy smart" gas flame lock water heater with a special "honeywell" gas valve.....

It was my "guest" post that started this thread. I sent in another one which was posted on 11/30/05. This was around the time the thermocouple fried the last time. At that time, I removed the glass viewing plug, left the shroud cover off and kept the door to my indoor water heater closet cracked open. The thermocouple lasted from 11/05 until last night. The only difference this time is that if I keep at it, I can get the thermocouple to stay lit and fire the burner. It goes out before the water is fully heated, but I can repeat the process (so far) and eventually get a tank of fully hot water.

I just got off the phone with Whirlpool. The service center now appears to be in India. The rep was very polite and apologetic. I guess class action lawsuits have that effect on a company. The first thing he asked me after he got the serial number for the water heater was if I had the "enhancement kit". I told him that other than several thermocouples and the thermostat unit they sent me out of the blue all I had received was the plastic filter to wrap around the bottom. He told me that they would sent me the enhancement kit, which includes a thermocouple and replaces the entire door to the water heater. The enhancement kit seems to be an external "reset switch" that somehow resets the thermocouple. He advised me that if it happens again I just need to press the reset switch and reignite the pilot in the normal manner. The kit is free. The shipping is $6. After some mild complaining he agreed to waive the shipping charge. Estimated arrival is 5 business days. Fortunately, I have extra thermocouples (once bitten, twice shy). He also told me that if I went to Lowes and bought a replacement thermocouple they would reimburse me for it.

I'm not sure how the mechanics of the enhancement kit function, but at least there seems to be some movement on this problem. And after reading about how often the thermocouple croaks for people, I believe that popping the glass viewing window, keeping the shroud off and leaving the door slightly cracked did have an effect on the longevity of the last thermocouple. Still hate the product, believe it to be substandard and will never purchase another Whirlpool product again. Hopefully this enhancement kit will be a permanent solution, and not just a patch to get past the warranty period (9 years for mine). So for you professional plumbers, when you get calls from customers about their crappy Whirlpool water heater you might give Whirlpool a call and get this kit. It's only available from Whirlpool and can't be purchased at Lowes or anywhere else. It's supposed to be easy to install. I'd guess it's close to the same procedure for replacing the thermocouple, so your fee will probably be about the same.

The sad thing is before I called Whirlpool I was having crazy thoughts about removing the On/Off/Pilot knob, grinding an indent into it and using a C-clamp to hold the pilot light button down. I never would have done that, but the fact that those thoughts even entered my head show how frustating these experiences are. I really feel sorry for the people who have no clue and wouldn't attempt to change out the thermocouple themselves, and end up paying $100 or more for a service call a few times a year.

[master plumber mark]

Thank you for the update


Just for fun , meaness and spite too....

why dont you call LOWES and ask
them why they sell a product that presently has a
class action lawsuit going on in California and one
being filed sometime soon in Illinois too.....


ask them why they sell a product that they KNOW
is trouble ..,

ask the why they dont have a "let the buyer beware "

sign posted near their water heaters that they sell.


the reason is that they get a large rebate back from American
Water heaters for selling certain quotas of water heaters
every year....


that rebate actually comes to quite a lot of money...
.probably about 200k to 500k or more per region of the country...



ANYWAY.....thank you for the update on their new futile attempt to
contain this lawsuit....

.

it sounds like that they are addressing the problem with a re-set switch
that sounds something like the BRADFORD WHITE unit presently has.


but if they have not enlarged the size of the air intake under this unit
it will be all in vain..... just another cluster-fu////.
all they got to do is make a larger air intake screen under the unit.....


from what I have seen so far, the total stupidity and incompetence
that their enjeneering department has shown ,

I really honestly doubt that they have fixed their problems..

guess I need to go down to Lowes this
weekend and take some pics of their products.

I am very interested in getting an update again from you
when your new repair parts arrive...

please post another update when you have a chance....
digital pics would be nice to see too....


http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryiii/

..

[Tim in Fort Worth]

I am very interested in getting an update again from you when your new repair parts arrive...

Well, turns out the part was sent to an old work address I used one time when I had them send out a new thermocouple and didn't want to miss it in the event a signature was required for delivery. Funny that they didn't verify the address before they sent it out, or just send it to the address associated with the warranty. In the interim, the "waiting for the burner area to cool down and holding the pilot light button down for three minutes so it would stay lit for one cycle" routine has stopped working. On Friday I had to use the spare thermocouple I had. I was hoping I would only have to do this once, when the enhancement kit arrived. They are now sending another one over night, and it should be here tomorrow. I'll post some pics at that time. I hope that the enhancement kit is the entire slide-in assembly. The gas feeder tube for the pilot light has taken a beating because of the number of times I have had to replace the thermocouple. The threaded nut that connects it to the thermostat is almost completely deformed because it is in a difficult place to get a wrench around and the tube itself is getting crimped because it has to be moved out of the way when removing the burner assembly.

One thing I would suggest to people who one of these water heaters is to make a "relief call" to Whirlpool a few months after they get replacement parts, and tell them it went out again. That way they will at least have a spare the next time it really craps out and they won't be without hot water while waiting for a new part.

[master plumber mark]

thanks for the update........

I have had a number of customers that broke that
gas line off inside the heater where it was welded to the
inner the burner plate .....and that was the last straw for them
we installed new Brad White units


once that goes---cracks, snaps, , just consider putting in a new heater...



it really amazes me how much trouble Whirlpool thinks
people are willing to put up with....


if someone asked me to break down a gas heater and
put new parts on it every 6 months.....

the heater might
get thrown through the store window some dark night..


its jsut a matter ot time before someone blows up or burns
down their home....http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryiii/

[Tim in Fort Worth]

Here we go. The part arrived today and I immediately snapped some pictures of the parts. I uploaded them, but I don't know how to get them to appear as inline images. In previewing this message the images show up in a list below the text and you will need to click on them.

The BFG Conversion Kit showed up in a 10"x10"x10" box delivered by DHL. It contained a replacement plastic filter (two pieces) for the base of the water heater, a new manifold/door assembly, thermocouple adapter, ferule nut, two wire leads and a sticker to apply to the heater.

The first image should be a view of the entire BFG kit with parts, laid out generally where the parts go. Note that the viewing window is now square and a bit larger than the old style. The thermocouple adapter can be seen on the left in front of the viewing window. The piece on the right is a thermal switch. The wire leads attach to the thermocouple adapter and the thermal switch. The thermal switch is apparently a thermal breaker. My assumption is that it is supposed to pop before the thermocouple burns out. The only way I can see that it works is on the same principle as the igniter wire system--when it gets too hot the switch pops and sends an electric current to the thermocouple adapter, which shuts off the pilot light and burner. The sticker attaches to the water heater, just to the right of the manifold and thermal switch. There's probably a federal law that this sticker has to be attached.

The second image is a closeup of the thermal switch. The little white button in the center is the reset switch.

The third image is a closeup of the thermocouple adapter. It attaches to the thermostat, and the thermocouple attaches to the adapter.

The fourth image just shows how the thermocouple adapter connects to the thermal switch. The wire leads have straight-on connectors for the thermocouple adapter side, and flag connectors (same connector, but at a 90* angle) for the thermal switch.

The installation process is pretty straightforward. Remove the old manifold and burner, remove the burner and attach it to the new manifold, reinstall. Connect the external wires and tubes, then connect the wire leads between the thermocouple adapter and thermal switch. Ignite using the standard procedures. If the thermal switch pops, it can be reset by depressing the white switch in the center. The "BFG Conversion Kit - Manual Addendum" contains the following statement:

"IMPORTANT: This water heater has a resettable thermal switch installed as part of the FVIR Safety System. DO NOT attempt to disable or modify this feature in any way."

The kit looks complete, but I'm not sure how the ferule nut is going to seal the pilot light gas tube when I attach it. The ferule nut freely slides over the pilot tube. It seems to me that there should be another part for the tube and nut to compress against. Hopefully, it is iniside the fitting in the thermostat. If anyone can explain how this functions, please let me know. I'm familiar with flare fittings, and have used compression fittings but I seem to remember that second part for a compression fitting. All that's left now it the installation. I'll let everyone know how that goes.

BTW, if there is a way to include these images as inline images without linking to an external web site, please let me know and I will switch them over so you don't have to click on each image.

[Cass]

Did it come with the wrap around filter also?

[Tim in Fort Worth]

Did it come with the wrap around filter also?

Yes. It came with two wrap around filters and two identical instruction pages, one for each filter I guess...lol. No doubt the two identical pages cover liability. I can see some yahoo trying to sue because they only got one instruction page, but two filter pieces. Funny thing is I would think that you could get more air inside if you popped the new and improved larger viewing window out and stuck a piece of window screen over the opening. Easier to clean, too.

[gmt]

That ferrule you are talking about is a break-away ferrule. Just place it on the aluminum tubing then insert the tubing and ferrule into the control as far as possible. Then once you proceed to tighten the nut the ferrule will break away from the nut, setting it to the tubing.

[master plumber mark]

Thanks for the PICS.....


they have not addressed the amount of air this unit
is able to take in ,,,,and cannot ......


so my bet is the thermal switch will keep poppping out
untill it starts to give out due to being tripped too many times.....

....when it starts to overheat....due to poor air combustion



I wonder if the thermocoupling is of the same design and
shorts out too when it gets too hot??? Does it still look
the same to you??
------------------------------------------------------------------

the only way to get a decent life expectancy out of this
heater looks like popping out that viewing glass..to let more air into it....

or leaving the manifold plate loosley installed so air can get around the edjes of the plate....


of course this defeats the purpose of the FVIR design
and is probably illegal to do..


So I dont recommend it...although it would probably work...




Installing this is really a lot to ask a homeowner to atttempt
on his own.....


In my opinion,
WHIRLPOOL should be forced to pay a plumber to make
this modification to these gas heaters instead of
possibly having the homeowner have a bad accident ..



still a lawsuit waiting to happen....http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryiii/

[Cass]

Yes. It came with two wrap around filters.

No, the 2 filters connect to make 1.

They are adjustable, depending on how you connect them, so it will fit any size heater.

[Cass]

When you go to put the filter around the heater, over lap it and instead of trying to snap it together and pulling your hair out trying, just take a drywall screw or 2 and screw it through both filters and it will hold fine.

It also makes it easy to remove so you can clean the air intake that you can't get to to clean.

[Tim in Fort Worth]

so my bet is the thermal switch will keep poppping out untill it starts to give out due to being tripped too many times.....

That was my thought, too. I think the thermal switch is just a piezoelectric fuse that is designed to pop before the thermocouple burns out--kind of like a fuse for a fuse. Now that's the good old American ingenuity that made this country great


I wonder if the thermocoupling is of the same design and shorts out too when it gets too hot??? Does it still look the same to you??

Funny you should mention that. I haven't gotten around to installing the new kit yet, but after I read your post I screwed the thermocouple onto the thermocouple adapter. The threads were standard threads. I thought for sure that the threads on all the previous thermocouples were reverse threaded, so I went out to the trash and, risking old food and other rubbish I dug around and pulled out the old thermocouple. I couldn't get it to thread onto the thermocouple adapter at all, left or right. So the guess from this non-plumber is that the thermocouple adapter has reverse threads on the male end, and standard threads on the female end. This leads me to believe that any standard thermocouple should work on this water heater as long as the thermocouple adapter has been installed first. I'd like to get a hold of an extra thermocouple adapter to play around with. It would be interesting to see how it reacts when various voltages are sent through it. The instructions state that it doesn't matter how the leads between the thermocouple adapter and thermal switch are connected, and nothing is color-coded.

Come to think of it, if the problem is with the thermocouple itself, shouldn't the thermocouple adapter alone be sufficient, as any thermocouple will now work? If so, why is the switch even needed?


the only way to get a decent life expectancy out of this heater looks like popping out that viewing glass..to let more air into it....or leaving the manifold plate loosley installed so air can get around the edjes of the plate....

That was my theory when I left the viewing glass out. The thermocouple lasted longer than any previously did. This time I also left the door to the hot water heater closet cracked open for added air flow. If I do the same with this one I think I will go ahead and stick a piece of window screen over the opening, if for no other reason than to see how much dust and debris accumulate on it.

If anyone here has both the curiosity and tinkerer's gene they might buy a few of these water heaters to examine and play around with. If all the talk about class action law suits pans out, there will be a need for expert witnesses to testify on behalf of the plaintiffs. Expert witnesses in class action lawsuits get paid pretty well. Then there are the articles on the subject that can be written for various trade magazines. Once your name gets out there you start showing up on the morning shows that wives love to watch, getting interviewed for news stories then BAM! Before you know it you have a show on the newly created plumbing channel on satelite TV. Anyone here want to be the Emeril Lagasse or Rachel Ray of plumbing?

[master plumber mark]

Believe it or not, I have alrealdy been
asked by some lawyers to be a "expert witness"after
they saw my web site...

I gave one lawyer the name of a customer of mine
that had to completely change out his heater
cause he broke off the internal gas line...
he was interesteed at first.

but they dont pay anything for it, maybe 4,000,
for all the traveling expences, ect ect and thats after
all the time and effort spent , thats not much...

in fact they hem hawed around when I inquired about
who ends up getting all the settlement money .....

even my customer that started the complaint only wil
end up with maybe 10,000.. ....5 years from now......

So guess who gets all the money when they finally
get it al resolved??? The Lawyers themselves...
for all the work teh put into getting the case filed
.

he told me bluntly that is why they DO these sort of cases......


they could honestly care less about the dumb ass consumer....LOL



http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryiii/

[Tim in Fort Worth]

Got the new manifold installed today. Nothing really different about this from previous installs, but the two screws that hold the manifold on now come pre-installed and held on to the manifold door with plastic retaining washers. That made it very difficult to line up the holes on the manifold with the holes on the tank. I almost took the plastic retaining washers off because without them you can shine a flashlight through the holes and see if you are lined up. After several minutes I got it attached without removing them. The only obstacle in the install was the ferule nut for the pilot tube sliding down and getting stuck because the tube bent a little bit.

The larger, square glass window was interesting. With it removed, the pilot light flickered like a candle. With it in, there was a steady flame. I also tested it with a piece of metal window screen, folded over into 3 layers and held in place with a tab cut into the screen to hold it in the hole. The flame didn't flicker that way. There was obviously significant air being drawn into the burner area with the larger hole. It didn't do that with the smaller, round glass.

The thermocouple is definitely different from the previous thermocouples in that the threads are no longer reverse threaded. The thermocouple adapter does have reverse threads on the thermostat control side, and standard threads on the thermocouple side.

This pretty much confirms my theory that the thermal reset switch is nothing more than a fuse for a fuse. We'll see how long it lasts. Elmwood makes the thermal switch, and it will be interesting to see if they start catching hell from customers when the switch wears out. One thing I wish I did (but didn't think of at the time) before I installed the new manifold kit was look at the thermal switch to see how it is attached and if it can be replaced. In looking at the unit from the outside, it looks like it's not a threaded on piece, held on by a nut. So if the switch wears out, it might mean replacing the entire manifold door assembly unless it's a pop-out part. I'm tending toward the replace the entire manifold assembly theory because the instructions that came with the kit has a parts list that includes everything but the thermal switch. The thermal switch shows up as part of the manifold door assembly for both the natural gas and LP gas parts. Has to be Whirlpool scheming on how they can continue to get money out of us. Since they redesigned the manifold door, they could just as easily designed it so that the thermal switch was a part that could be replaced.

If I wasn't such a stubborn cheapskate I would have replaced the water heater long ago. But to me that would be like conceding defeat, and I don't like to lose. Hopefully, this thread will be helpful to others who have had the same problems with their Whirlpool Flame Locks water heaters. I know it has helped me a lot. I've changed out the thermocouple enough times over the years that I think I could do it in the dark. It's tempting to offer to do it for other people, but without a license I wouldn't even consider it. But I do think I am going to work up a billing invoice and send it to myself. I've definitely earned the money.

[master plumber mark]

the thermal switch will be the next hurdle
they have to deal with....

out of curiousity..... what keeps you from

just totally disconnecting the thermal switch

from the whole equation by simply jumping the wires????

if you bypassed the switch, took out that glass port,
got it more air from around the manifold palte


you would basically have converted the heater back into an "old style" gas heater


I would NEVER advise anyone to do that, but eventuallly

someone will get around to it....

http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryiii/

[Tim in Fort Worth]

the thermal switch will be the next hurdle they have to deal with....

out of curiousity..... what keeps you from just totally disconnecting the thermal switch from the whole equation by simply jumping the wires????

Based on my observations, disconnecting the switch will not affect the normal operation of the water heater. The problem is that you are back to the original problem of low air flow and burning out the thermocouple. If you have the switch connected, it should prevent the thermocouple from burning out. Since the thermal switch is resettable it seems preferable to let it pop instead of replacing a thermocouple that is now about $15.


if you bypassed the switch, took out that glass port, got it more air from around the manifold palte

I haven't tried keeping the manifold door loose, because I don't want the entire assembly to be able to rattle around. Probably wouldn't hurt anything, but since I am working with natural gas I don't want to risk doing something that might cause the connections to start leaking. Since the switch is nothing more than a fuse for a fuse, there is no reason to bypass it until it craps out and Whirlpool wants to sell you a new manifold door assembly. If you bypass it, you are back to replacing the thermocouple on a regular basis.

The thermocouple adapter is the key to the whole operation here. I have never bought a thermocouple before I got this water heater, so I don't know how many different ones there are. But I remember the first time I went to Lowe's after it burned out the first time they pointed me to a "standard" thermocouple that had standard threads before I told them it was a Whirlpool Flame Lock water heater. I don't know how much cheaper, if at all a standard thermocouple is. But if it's just a few bucks then it's still cheaper than paying shipping for a new manifold assembly or $15 for the reverse threaded thermocouple.

In regards to the window, as I stated earlier the window is larger and lets in a lot more air. The flow is so strong that the pilot light really flickers. I was worried it might go out so I put some folded metal window screen over it and that calmed down the pilot flame.


you would basically have converted the heater back into an "old style" gas heater

That was my theory when I popped out the smaller, round glass a year and a half ago. At that time I also considered attaching a hose to the hole and running it under the house where there is a constant draft that would feed air into the space under the water heater. The square hole is too big for that.


I would NEVER advise anyone to do that, but eventuallly someone will get around to it....

I'm not a licensed plumber, and I wouldn't advise anyone to do it, either. But trust me. "Someone" has popped that glass out and made it more like the old style gas heaters. That's the only reason I think I got a year and a half out of the last thermocouple. Based on everything I have read about the problems associated with the Whirlpool Flame Lock system, it seems that a lot of people are replacing them every few months. If this one lasts a year and a half before popping that resettable switch the new manifold assembly should be good until the warranty expires. I've got 5 years left on the warranty, so using 1.5 years as the guide the thermal switch should pop 3 times before the warranty expires.

I can understand the concern with flammable vapors in proximity to gas water heaters, especially for those installed in garages where paints, solvents and gasoline are also stored. But my water heater is in the house, in it's own closet. The only flammable vaporous liquid in the house is a couple of bottles of rubbing alcohol, and they are 20' away from the water heater. I've got a keg of Blue Dot Smokeless Powder that is closer to the water heater than the alcohol (yes, it's in a different room and stored properly).

Edit: On a whim I Googled these heaters to find out about the class action law suit that is in the works. Here's the link to the search results. There are four returns, including one to this thread:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22class+action%22%2C%22against+whirlpool%22%2C% 22flame+lock%22&btnG=Google+Search

I read the Consumer Affairs articles, and noticing that one of the people quoted lived near me I called him. It seems that he figured out the trick about removing the viewing window, too. He also told me something that was very interesting because it conflicts with the advice being given by Whirlpool about cleaning the filters. The city where he lives has a code requirement that when you replace a water heater you have to put a catch pan under it. The catch pan is about 3" deep, which makes cleaning the bottom of the screen impossible unless you disconnect every single connection on the water heater and lift it out of the pan for cleaning. He also told me that he asked a manager at Lowes how many of the thermocouples they had sold. The manager told him that they sold 40 of them in 3 months. One store. He calculated it out for that store for a year, then for the number of stores in Texas, then for all the Lowes in the United States. The $$ figure he got was in the neighborhood of $10,000,000 at $15 per part.

For those interested, the class action lawsuit against Whirlpool and AWHC in California is set for August of this year. If it succeeds it will spread across the country.

[Ervserver]

I received and installed the upgrade kit today, took me an hour. Most of that time was getting into clean out that filter good. What a sucky design. My water heater sits up off the ground a bit on some blocks built into the floor so the wrap around screen in the kit don't give full coverage but I installed it anyway. If I can get a couple more years out of this water heater I'm switching to another brand with a better design !! :cool:

[djockers]

Short story...

I purchased one of these a couple years ago. I do recall replacing the Thermocoupler one time -- though I don't recall how long ago. No problems since then. I believe I contacted Whirlpool first, who directed me to Lowes for the replacement part and that I'd be reimbursed. I never followed up... but just as well, Whirlpool must have kept my info on file, because... Lo and behold out of nowhere, I received a Class Action Settlement proposal in the mail today. It came from the Court, not the lawyers.

So anyhow, your thread has been very enlightening for me -- to help me in the future on what I may need to do. Whirlpool is offering "us" several options -- they're leaving the "opt in" deadline open for a year. Here's a link to the Settlement:

http://www.waterheatersettlement.com/

I figure the readers of this thread could appreciate the news. I'll reserve my opinion for now -- and will allow those that have followed this story for so long to comment.

It sounds like they just want to make this go away -- with no admission of fault by you accepting the settlement... and you give up future rights.

Read the settlment carefully.

Dave

[djockers]

FYI, here's the breakdown of the settlement, from the link I included above:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Overview

A settlement has been proposed that resolves a class action lawsuit and claims against Whirlpool Corporation, Lowe’s HIW, Inc., American Water Heater Company, and A.O. Smith Corporation. The lawsuit alleges the “Flame Lock” and “Flame Guard” water heaters made and sold by these companies, equipped with single-use thermocouples, and sold from 2000 through 2006, are defective in that their thermocouples are prone to premature activation. The companies deny all allegations.

Settlement Benefits

If the settlement is approved and you are a class member, you may be eligible to receive an upgraded manifold door assembly for your water heater or reimbursement for a prior purchase of the upgraded assembly and/or reimbursement for a prior purchase of a replacement thermocouple or reimbursement for buying a replacement water heater after suffering multiple thermocouple activations. Please review the Notice for complete details regarding these benefits. To make a claim for settlement benefits, you must send in a completed Claim Form, postmarked no later than June 28, 2008

Request Exclusion, Object, or Comment

If you are a class member, you may request exclusion from the class or object to or comment in favor of the settlement. If you do not exclude yourself and remain in the class, you will be bound by any judgment, your claims will be released, and you will be eligible for the benefits of the settlement.

If you request exclusion from the class, you will not be entitled to any settlement benefits, will not be bound by any judgment, and none of your claims will be released. To exclude yourself, you must mail an exclusion request that complies with all requirements of section 8(C) of the full notice, postmarked no later than August 10, 2007.

If you wish to object to or comment in support of the settlement, Class Counsel’s application for attorneys’ fees and reimbursement of expenses, or the requested incentive awards to the two representative plaintiffs, you must comply with all requirements of section 8(b) or 8(d) of the full notice, including filing your written comments or objections with the Court and sending copies of your comments or objections to the parties no later than August 10, 2007.

Please review the Notice for complete details regarding your rights.

Fairness Hearing

On September 10, 2007, at 1:30 p.m., a hearing will be held before the Honorable Andrew J. Guilford, Southern Division, 411 West Fourth Street, Santa Ana 92701, to decide whether to approve the settlement, award attorneys’ fees and reimbursement of expenses to Class Counsel, and approve incentive awards to the two representative plaintiffs.

PLEASE DO NOT CONTACT THE COURT FOR INFORMATION REGARDING THE SETTLEMENT

[djockers]

Last post on this, here's a direct link to download a PDF of the FULL proposed settlement. Again, read carefully. If you "opt in", you give up certain rights. But if you want to "opt out", then there is a procedure to do so.

http://www.waterheatersettlement.com/notice.pdf

Dave

[GrumpyPlumber]

"everyone knows about this problem but the consumer"... ............"
Low*s knows, whirlpool knows, american water heaters know


they sell them because peopel think that they are
saveing a substantial amount of money over having a
plumber install one for them....

people dont factor in LABOR ISSUES into that cheap price
when they buy it.... so they pay through the nose

HD, Low*s are pawning "vent-free" gas fireplaces in my state...they're "legal", based on the fact that they're 40K btu or less, like a standard oven.
Most inspectors dislike them, based on the argument that they are used to produce constant heat..unlike an oven.
Guy calls me to install one...I tell him "You might want to consider a vented one...inspectors don't really like them."
He insists..."The guy at low*s said they're fine"
I told him that although the vented one is a bit more (also on labor) it's worthwhile to sleep at ease knowing a fixture isn't spewing CO directly into your living area.
Make a long story short, I humored him...got the permit for both gas and fire.
Gas inspector passed , fire dept laughed on the way out the door muttering under his breath "I won't pass one of those things in my lifetime."
He now owns a fully installed & legally un-useable vent free gas log.
(Use at risk....god forbid a fire occured...no insurance.)
The guy at Low*s offered him a full refund...well no, he didn't.

[Ervserver]

reading the settlement claim form they want to make us pay for any shipping charges, what a crock! a defective part and we have to pay shipping!!!

[BuzzDog]

I want to thank you guys for the information in this thread.

Last Sunday I got back from a week's vacation, and was welcomed by...NO HOT WATER!!! Oh well, I'm one of the lucky ones, as my Whirlpool FlameLock water heater worked for two years, eight months before the thermocouple threw in the towel.

I ended up shelling out $24 for overnight delivery of the "Manifold Door Switch Kit" (part number 6910813); however, I did NOT get the wraparound filters to go around the bottom of the unit. I agree with others that it's kind of stingy to charge shipping for this, but then again, the optimist in me is happy that a great deal of my water heater is now brand spankin' new.

I'm a reasonably handy do-it-yourselfer, and ended up getting the kit installed in a little over 30 minutes, including the time it took to clean the air grate. However, it bears mentioning that I had taken out the old unit the day before to troubleshoot, so I had an idea of how things came out, and went back in. Fortunately, I'm handy and fairly limber...I couldn't imagine what an elderly or otherwise less-than-fit person would have done.

Bottom line is that I'm glad to have this fix in place, but I wonder how long things will STAY fixed. Guess I'll end up changing this tank out to a Bradford White if it happens again.

Thanks again for the posts guys...it really made my task MUCH easier, and I'm back to taking HOT showers!

[statjunk]

When you go to put the filter around the heater, over lap it and instead of trying to snap it together and pulling your hair out trying, just take a drywall screw or 2 and screw it through both filters and it will hold fine.

It also makes it easy to remove so you can clean the air intake that you can't get to to clean.

Good tip. I had a heard time putting on the wrap around filter. I unfortunetly installed on about a month an half ago. Sucks to be me.

So far no problems.

Tom

[techboy]

Ok Guys,

I just picked up one of these units at LOW*S Yesterday and got the display for more than 50% off. I figured I got nothing to loose and before I install I called the hotline and ordered the conversion kit and the filter that wraps around the unit. To make access easier, I am going to put it on 2" blocks so I can go underneath and clean the screen once in a while. I was looking at the screen and noticed that it was about the size of a filter that you would find on a stove hood or microwave hood. I am thinking I might mount one of those as a pre-filter and see how that works before I take off the viewing window. I figure I have nothing to loose since I purchased the thing for $150 bucks, I should get $150 of hot water out of it!!

[master plumber mark]

Ok Guys,

I figure I have nothing to loose since I purchased the thing for $150 bucks, I should get $150 of hot water out of it!!

I like that settlement aagreement that they reached with
the consumers..... its nothing but a joke.....


as far as your heater goes......if you are selling your house in less than an year from now.....and you only paid $150

you will probably be ok. Anything more than about 1 /2 years you will have troubles


I wonder what brand LOW*S is going to switch to next??http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryiii/

[Swaged]

I've looked at the screen on the bottom of this water heater(B model-new).
I haven't seen a picture of the new wrap around filter.
Anybody got one?

What does the screen/filter/intake of the Bradford White look like?

It seems to me, that if new wrap around filter is securely installed, and fits tight to floor and heater, there would be no need for the existing screen.
Maybe just an adjustment to the size of the slots in the existing screen would be necessary.

I can't see the purpose of such a small slot, 1/64 x 7/32.
(Catching rust from above?)

Tim

[Zookeeper]

My hot water heater gave up a couple of weeks ago & I was in a hurry, so I ran to LOW*s and picked one up with out doing any research. You guessed it, picked up the Whirlpool Flame Lock. So, from the get-go, I have had problems with the pilot going out because when the furnace kicks on, it robs the hwh of enough air (small opening that has been described/never had this problem with the old one). Now tonight, I have already had to replace the thermal couple.

So my question is, has anyone tried to return one of these to LOW*s? Did they take it back? I mean really, it doesn't work, so they should accept it as a return. I don't want to uninstall it & haul it there if they are going to refuse. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

As you can see, this is my first post even though I've been roaming the site for some time, appreciate all the great advice on here.

[master plumber mark]

I have had a couple of peope raise hell
and they usaully will takeit back...

one lawyer had me take the 50 gal gas back to the front
door of Low*s for them when I changed out the heater
and then they threaten the manager of LOw*s to leave it there....


it really depends on how nasty you can be-have....


their is one fellow in town that actually took his water
heater and put it in the back of his pick up truck and put a
sign above it calling it a lemon and piece of junk

and then parked it near a Low*s entrance..


the sad thing about Low*s is that they are fully aware of
the class action lawsuit but simply dont care...
and keep dumping this junk on their customers..

they have also stopped carrying the repair parts due to
the liability and the agreement in the lawsuit.

Its a cheesey way to do people

http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryiii/

[Zookeeper]

I figured I would just raise hell with the manager. I can usually get pretty upset & cause a scene.

Next is to figure out what to get. I'd get a Bradford, but I plan on installing myself. I'll figure out what to get & try to take it back this weekend.

Thanks,

Jesse

[JorjaGirl]

I am presently repairing about 2 -5 of these dogs a month...
for an average of $200 with me supplying parts


go look at my web page to see what is wrong
with this brand of water heater.......


you got to clean the bottom of the heater screen
or all your troubles are in vain.........

These units need to be cleaned about 3 times a year
becasue they suck up lint and hair like a vaccuum sweeper...

its all there with actual pics of the problem.....

just scroll down to the WHIRLPOOL SECTION
with pictures
and its all there for the world to see

http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/products/

IN MY HONEST OPINION
the people -that desigend this water heater at
AMERICAN WATER HEATERS are
totally incompetent morons......

someone, someday, is going to get seriously burned or killed
tampering with this brand themsleves

and then their will be a major RECALL, and LAWSUIT
and I hope that-- LOWES , WHIRLPOOL< and AMERICAN WATER HEATERS
who makes this piece of JUNK gets the pants
sued off of all of them..
for still selling them to an unsuspecting public...

(for about $100 dollars less than I can put a good one in for)


I am makeing pretty good money repairing them every week,
but I would rather seem them re-called and taken off the market

I have the same waterheater and called whirlpool warranty 877 # on the side of the tank. The recording stated something about the FG models....it informed me to go to website www.waterheatersettlement.com

[ano]

I'm glad I caught this forum. I had purchased one of these water heaters and it was to be installed today. I went back to Low*s and cancelled it for a full refund. It also looks like the class action suite only covers 2000-2006 purchases, but it doesn't appear they have ever fixed most of the problems so would be out of luck.

I should have known something when the warranty on parts was 12 years, but the warranty on labor was only 1 year. Extending the labor warranty cost $79 more. At least HD includes the full labor warranty, but I'm not sure their models are much better.

[bdorom]

Yes, I also have a 50 gal Whirlpool water heater series number starting with "FG"; guess what? Trying to replace the water heater's control box, I neither have hot water nor running water! The inept plumber Low*'s sent to install my water heater used a defective faucet.
It is very sad that American products such as the ones from 'American Water Heaters' [(800) 999-9515] ultimately result in distrust of what we produce in America. It is also scarry to think that outside America everyone may distrust "Made in the USA"...
I am now in a crusade to discourage people to buy Whirlpool and Lowe's products. I am looking now for a good Japaness or German water heater which I plan to install myself.

[Dunbar Plumbing]

Is I told somebody that had a low*s water heater that they'll most likely won't get parts for it, that they are notorious for failure and sure enough....

He went out and bought another brand of heater.

Put it in 2 nights ago, had hot water before I even left. He took the water heater back and got a sizeable return......even though it was 3 years old.

I think they might be doing this more often than not to show proof when the big lawsuit comes that they were working with the customer in the situation of bad product.

[Redwood]

If they won't refund I say give it back to them through thir front window and call it customer satisfaction!:mad:

[Cass]

Low*s policy is they will take back anything they sell any time, period.

If you have the receipt they will refund the $$$ if you don't have a receipt they will issue a store credit.

[master plumber mark]

I feel sorry for the fellows that have to stand
behind the counter of those stores and sell those pieces of
junk to the public....

and have to look everyone in they eye and lie to them

I went in there two weeks ago to try to get parts
for the NEW IMPROVED WHIRLPOOL heater and they
do not carry anything in this town....

of course the new ones are junk too.....

The plumbing "expert" told me he knew nothing about
the troubles that they were having with their heater...


when I told him who I was , and I knew all about their
trobles..... he fesses up to me and claimed that this was
store policy not to admit anything ........

......plausible denyability.......

I suppose you can still claim that,... even after 7 years of
troubles and a whole scrap yard of bad water heaters..

you just didnt know.....

http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryiii/

[brother]

I feel sorry for the fellows that have to stand
behind the counter of those stores and sell those pieces of
junk to the public....

and have to look everyone in they eye and lie to them

I went in there two weeks ago to try to get parts
for the NEW IMPROVED WHIRLPOOL heater and they
do not carry anything in this town....

of course the new ones are junk too.....

The plumbing "expert" told me he knew nothing about
the troubles that they were having with their heater...


when I told him who I was , and I knew all about their
trobles..... he fesses up to me and claimed that this was
store policy not to admit anything ........

......plausible denyability.......

I suppose you can still claim that,... even after 7 years of
troubles and a whole scrap yard of bad water heaters..

you just didnt know.....


That is REALLY sad to see the store has a 'policy' to lie and give out false info.!! People wonder why there are soo many lawsuits, and it indirectly affects your trade. Because people will try blame plumbers for this nonsense when a BAD product is installed. Oh well such is life.

[Squ1rrel]

This is a pretty sad affair....worked for Low*s until about a month ago selling these things for them. The salespeople were provided NO information about the problem aside from the 1-800 number or the website, and we were the ones who go to deal with angry customers..nice, huh? Not only that, but Whirlpool recalls all the "old" thermocouples, only to provide ones that won't fit the adapter, only the new setup the customer has to order and, in some cases, pay for! here's the fun part...no recall went out on the water heaters, there are still probably some defective ones in the warehouses.

[Tim in Fort Worth]

This is a pretty sad affair....worked for Low*s until about a month ago selling these things for them. The salespeople were provided NO information about the problem aside from the 1-800 number or the website, and we were the ones who go to deal with angry customers..nice, huh? Not only that, but Whirlpool recalls all the "old" thermocouples, only to provide ones that won't fit the adapter, only the new setup the customer has to order and, in some cases, pay for! here's the fun part...no recall went out on the water heaters, there are still probably some defective ones in the warehouses.

What was your Low*s experience regarding the adapter and reset-button in terms of being an improvement? Mine's been working for several months now, though I have gotten more than a year out of the old thermocouple by popping out the viewing window to increase air flow. As far as I can tell the adapter just allows you to use a standard thermocouple, and the reset button is little more than a resettable fuse.

It's also funny to see this thread surviving for so long. It comes up early (#2) in Google search returns for "Whirlpool Flame Lock water heaters". I bet the lawyers in the class action suit have been following it, as well. It would really be a hoot if this thread somehow ended up in the trial transcripts, even though I would probably get shafted for being the guy who modified his water heater to get better performance.

[master plumber mark]

Tim in Ft Worth...

perhaps you will be the lucky guy on the evening news some
day when your water heater goes through the roof or your house burns down...

I am sure its just a matter of time before someone figures
out a way to by-pass that new re-set button when it kicks out
for the 25th time.... that will be a real hoot.......


I wont modify a Whirlpool Junk heater for anyone cause
I could end up on the wrong end of a lawsuit
if the re=set button is over-rode and the heater
catches the house on fire.....

My insurance company will be jumping up and down,.
that will be a hoot too......



this problem wont finally fix itself
for another 10-++ years or more......
thats about how long you can figure the
installed stock of old Flame locks might last....

so its going to be an on-going problem....for a long long time...

and the new ones are not much better either...LOL

aint it a hoot??? http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryiii/

[Squ1rrel]

What was your Low*s experience regarding the adapter and reset-button in terms of being an improvement? Mine's been working for several months now, though I have gotten more than a year out of the old thermocouple by popping out the viewing window to increase air flow. As far as I can tell the adapter just allows you to use a standard thermocouple, and the reset button is little more than a resettable fuse.

Not too good Tim...I had several customers come in and complain about the new set up.....turns out the reset button doesn't always work. It would pop, and then couldn't be pushed back in. or worse, it came from the FACTORY that way. After dealing with that, I won't buy a Whirlpool or American water heater even if the only other option was a pot and a fire.

[master plumber mark]

When youknow that you are cheating the public and
you still got to smile and lie to anyone who asks about that
water heater.....its a place you dont want to work..


What amazes me is they cant get it right the second time...

even after getting the pants sued off them..

you would think that they ought to go back to
the drawing board.......

http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryiii/

whatever---The company must be in the hands of morons...

[T Scott]

Thanks to all of you for your informative posts.
[It's VERY hard not to launch into a 10 page tirade on my various disappointments regarding Whirlpool, Lowes, et. al., but you gentlemen have heard it all before, so I'll spare you....]
I'm going to pull my Whirlpool and install a replacement, and would like a name of a reliable brand. (Given that some forums do not allow recommendations, I've included my email address here).
s4temp@verizon.net
Your recommendations greatly appreciated!
t

[master plumber mark]

there you go....

http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/products/

http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryiii/

[Cass]

The only 2 that are worth a hoot are Bradford-White and Rudd/Rheem.

[master plumber mark]

Cass, It makes me wonder what everyones problem
is with the gas water heaters today???


It is now 2008, almost 5 years has passed and

the only two water heaters left standing tall are

Bradford and RHeem.....


Why in the world would these other water heater companies like American, State, Sears and SMITH
keep plodding forward with their own crappy design
that no professional in their right mind would use????


Is it all just pride and Male Ego that is at stake hers or are their simply PATENT Rights involved here that keeps them from makeing the changes to their designs that desperately need to be done???


I had heard that their were no patent rights involved with any of the water heaters designed becasue back in 2000- 03 they had all worked together to
figure out the fvir heaters....

http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryiii/

[Cass]

I quoted a W/H replacement the other day and yesterday when I went over for some other things the guy had purchased a Cesspool Heater and had it in the garage.

I told him to find another plumber, I wouldn't install it because he would blame me for any future problems, after I explained the problems with them and told him to look online, he said he would return it.

I must say though, to their credit, the new Cesspool Heaters have pretty red lettering on the boxes.

[PeteV]

My thermocouple went for the second time on this 3 year old Whirlpool. When I went to put it in a few minutes ago I had the idea of wrapping the fat part of the thermocouple wire with aluminum foil, secured by wire wrapped around it. This would disable the flame arrest feature but should shield the thermocouple from heat so maybe it will last a little longer. It some of the plumbers in the group would care to comment with their honest opinion I would appreciate it.

[Redwood]

I would make no modifications to this unit other than the approved up grade. This is for life/safety reasons!

Personally I'd return it whether they want it or not... If not just means it hits the plate glass window on the way to the returns counter and I'm not there! Also any identifying marks would have been removed and it would be while the store was closed!

[master plumber mark]

My thermocouple went for the second time on this 3 year old Whirlpool. When I went to put it in a few minutes ago I had the idea of wrapping the fat part of the thermocouple wire with aluminum foil, secured by wire wrapped around it. This would disable the flame arrest feature but should shield the thermocouple from heat so maybe it will last a little longer. It some of the plumbers in the group would care to comment with their honest opinion I would appreciate it.

Of course you can do antyhing you want to in your own home.... itis your risk and yours only.......



Only by breaking the law ....
by totally aborting the FVIR features of this heater is probably the only way to modify the unit...

this would involve getting a gas valve for a pre-2003 heater
and installing it on your heater....then simply putting a normal thermocoupling and older style burner assembly into the unit...

and leaving the front cover off so it can get air into it
like the old style ones......


basically you would have gone back in time to the older
type heater doing this

It really is not worth the effort, expence,
and risk of future troubles.. ie fires....ect.....


and of course again.....

it is against the law to do this



e http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryiii/

[GrumpyPlumber]

No lawyer here, but response from one might be nice...
Whats to stop individual homeowners/plumbers from filing motions on their own and taking Whirlpool to court?
I betcha a few thousand summons from all over the country might make them consider a recall.

[Redwood]

If it was brought to the returns counter in this manner maybe they would get the message!

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f2/Redwood39/toloweswithlove.jpg

[imready]

My waterheater expired at year 3 1/2 years. I called American and they sent me the complete KIT-FG Door Switch and I was told that a plumber was not need and that I could install it with no problem.

I disconnected all the suggested items including the 2 screws holding the door. My problem was that I could not get the old door to budge. I call for support and when I told them what problem I was having they immediately gave me an RA number, no questions. Lowes also took the unit back even though I had no receipt for the unit.

I am not sure I want a "new" American/Whirlpool unit but I guess I am stuck. BTW, my new Whirlpool unit (not an American brand) did not come with screen filters to go around the bottom.

[PeteV]

I was wondering- what brought the need for a flame lock? Were there fires from the burner of water heaters, or was it just the fear that something "might" happen, i.e. a liability issue? I've never heard of a fire that started with a water heater, although I havent made it a point to find out the statistics. Maybe, its better to convert to an electric water heater, if the new gas ones are going to cost a lot more, and be less reliable.

[GrumpyPlumber]

Another gimmick to appease the general handyman/homeowner, pawned by a box store.

[boober]

Man, THANKS TERRY! for running this site. My near 20 year old water heater is acting up, I've replaced the dip tub, but I'm not sure if that will fix it, so I was looking at replacements since I think it's better to change it out now than later when it starts leaking. I looked at Lowes, since I have over $300 in gift cards for them, and was considering a Whirlpool until I came across this thread. Looks like I saved myself some SERIOUS hassles.
I also was considering the the Sears Power Miser 12, because it can highly recommended for Consumerresearch.com. I'm VERY leary of all Sears products these days since their track record has diminished so greatly over the last decade or so. Any ideas on this type?

Edited-
I took a look at the link from Master Plumber Mark. Is it agreed that Rheem has a quality product? I wanted a direct vent model, but they have such a limited warranty compared to standard venting water heaters, I'm confused as to why. I looked at Bradford, but their closest person is in MN, and since I'm in WI, that doesn't work. Any other suggested models to look at?

[jimbo]

Power vent heaters will tend to have a shorter warranty because there are too many parts which can go wrong. You cant reasonably warranty a blower or a pressure switch for a very long time. Best bet is to look for the best warranty your installing contractor will give.

[boober]

I could see offering a shorter warranty for the power vent, but not for everything else... I was hoping to install myself, which may be an issue trying to get a rheem or bradford white...

I've been planning to completely re-plumb my house with pex, but haven't gotten to it yet. I'll probably wait until summer, until school is out so I can install this all during summer break. Hopefully by then I'll have a source to buy the water heater...

[ladder]

I've seen people talk about keeping the " lint screen " clean and was wondering if everybody agrees, that if a person kept it clean every 3 months, ( like Whirlpool asks ) that would take care of the problem... I myself think it would be ludicrous for Whirlpool to expect the average person to disconnect a few gas lines and a few electrical connections and unscrew and remove the entire housing to clean a " lint screen " every three months...... I don't think the threaded connections are designed to take it....... What do you guys think?

[clovis]

Anyone care to help on another home owner with a JUNK Whirlpool WH?

30 gallon, FG series, 3 years old. Has worked flawlessly until a week ago.

The pilot light went out, and relit, but continued to go out after a short time of running.

Whirlpool sent the upgrade, and I installed, following directions to a T. Took about an hour.

Pilot light relit...yippeee...I have hot water.....for about 4 minutes.

Pilot light goes out after running for a 'cycle', and I have to relight the pilot.

Lint screen was/is clean.

Where is the problem?

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND HELP!!!!!

Clove

[master plumber mark]

LOWES has hung everyone out to dry...at least in our town

they have pulled all the repair parts off their shelves....

becasue of that lawsuit.... now you are at the mercyu of Whirlpool



When I have worked on them, the only thing that I think
could have possibly went wrong was trying to bend that crappy thermocoupling into position

The only thing I can figure is that if it is not perfectly put back in to place like the original one was installed
(which is almlmost impossible to do) the new thermocouoling gets

subjected to higher heat that shorts out the coupling.almost immediately...........


you might as well get a new water heater and forget about it---you are screwed---learn to live with it.

I presently have a customer that I installed a Brad White for to replace that Flame lock junk..... they are trying to get a 150 re-imbursment from Whirlpool


believe it or not, Whirlpool wants THE ORIGINAL RECEIPT for the purchase of the new water heater from the customer!!


I have mailed them the sticker on the box from the heater that I installed with the ser# and mod # on it....
and I have sent them a copy of my bill for $599 for the new heater.


I honestly think that Whirlpool wont be happy with that either and will worm and weasel their way out of giving these people back one red cent..... on some "technicality".

I honestly feel bad for the customer , and I am willing to help them with my time and effort, but am not planning on pampering Whirlpool by jumping through hoops untill
the middle of next summer

and neither should my customer..

http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryiii/

[clovis]

Mark,

Thank you for the quick reply!!!!

I see you are in Indy. I am in Franklin.

I think you are right. It is probably time for a new WH.

Why the same problem before and after with the pilot light not staying lit? Do you think it is the thermocouple, both times?

What brand do you recommend?

One of my BIG concerns is that my problem lays outside of the WH...and a replacement of any brand will do the same thing. Can you advise?

I am not mad at Lowes...just Whirlpool. And replacing with another brand just lets Whirlpool win. What more could they ask for???

Again, THANK YOU!!!!!!!

[Cass]

Bring the heater back to Low*s, and tell them the story, then tell them you want your $$$ back. They will refund it if you have the recept or used a CC to buy it. If you don't have any proof they will give you a store credit which is better than nothing.

Buy a Rheem or Bradford White.

[Cass]

You should be mad a Low*s, they are well aware of the problems and still sell them without having them corrected..

[Raucina]

If you really want to hate Whirlpool, do a search on "Maytag Iowa " or "death of Maytag Iowa" - plant built in 1890's, one of America's icon manufacturing facilities that lasted until this year. Whirlpool bought it up, shut it down and took the washing machine factory to various parts of the US and the orient.

Several million square feet of punch presses and an entire community and culture destroyed for the sake of a higher profit margin. Its a repetitive saga that will pull us down to a developing nation again.

They likely did the same to get a water heater in their stable, and the left hand has no idea what the right hand is doing, thus all the parts confusion.

whirlpool can make a nice dryer with a pull out lint screen, but the a**holes in design can't mount that same unit in the water heater with a prefilter.

[Nate R]

Several million square feet of punch presses and an entire community and culture destroyed for the sake of a higher profit margin. Its a repetitive saga that will pull us down to a developing nation again.


Why do you think that plant was sold? Because it was greatly profitable as it was?

[Redwood]

Corporate greed! The competitor (Whirlpool) was selling 3rd world junk and had a higher market share selling cheap junk! They saw a quality manufacturer as a threat and bought it out, turning it into yet another cheap junk outlet!

Go ahead buy every cheap 3rd world bit of junk you can buy. Then wonder one day why you are unemployed in a country that joined the third world.

[clovis]

The saga continues.

I have been lied to by Whirlpool so many times that I am beginning to wonder if anyone in the world tells the truth.

I don't think I will ever knowingly purchase another Whirlpool branded appliance as long as I live. This includes Kenmore and other makes by Whirlpool.

I will update later.

Putting in a new water heater today, after 10 days of no hot water, and being JACKED AROUND BY WHIRLPOOL.

Clove

[master plumber mark]

You probably have a home depot or menar//* in Franklin Ind..

They sell Rheem-Richmond heaters... and GE-Rheem heaters....


go get one of those....



Then my suggestion....

take the old whhirlpool heater back to lowes at about
10;30 at night.....

set it out in the parking lot
take a can of kerosene and set it on fire.....

that will be a pretty site for them to clean up
on sunday morning.... http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryiii/

[clovis]

LOL!!!!!!

I my goodness!!!! That is hillarious!!!!

After having no real hot water for 11 days, I think this is the first time I have laughed out loud!!!!

Actually, if you can believe it, Lowes is working with me on the WH.

The saga continues...it will be Monday before I get a definite answer on the WH. We will see if Lowes really makes good on their customer service.

Still laughing...

Clove

[clovis]

For what its worth, if anyone cares:

When my last WH went out, I wanted to put in a quality replacement. We have a local place called The Plumbing Store. They have been great to deal with over the past 15 years. They sell Lukenhiemer (???)...I am sure I butchered that bad...this is the brand that most of the local plumbers install.

The Plumbing Store was closed the Saturday afternoon when gallons of water were spewing onto my basement floor.

Lowes and the wonderful Flame-Lock Whirlpool WH was the fastest and closest option.

Clove

[master plumber mark]

Lowes employees are in a bad spot... they are all slaves
to the corporate gods above them and they cant
stand up and complain to anyone above them about
the crummey quality of the heater that they sell...

without loseing their jobs...

they are no better off than the chineese that make the junk
that they sell, they just dont know it yet...

wait a few more years and they will be in the same boat when our currency totally collapses...and they will be no more than slaves too..


so all they seem to be able or allowed to do is give you some sort of in-store credit if you whine and moan enough to them..

The reason that Lowes keeps buying these heaters is Whirlpool gives Lowes gigantic incentives and rebates
to the tune of millions of dollars every year to buy a certain number of those shitty heaters..

all the money, bribes and trips around the world go to the evil corporate overlords.... that run whirlpool.....amd they dont want to give that up.

they are getting a hell of a kick-back ...
and that makes it kind of fun to
take a big dump on the little consumer....

Its Whirlpools problem, and they still get a big pay off.

so they deny that their is a problem...and keep sticking it to the little guy,......


Dont put in a new whirlpool heater, they are no better than the old unit.....

take the credit if they give you one,

if they dont , IMHO...have the barbecue in the parking lot....

http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryiii/

[master plumber mark]

just got a call from another poor sap
with a 2004 Flame Lock.......

going to change it out on Monday for $599

[Redwood]

They sell Lukenhiemer (???)...I am sure I butchered that bad...this is the brand that most of the local plumbers install.

Lochinvar maybe? http://www.lochinvar.com/class.asp?cat=WH They're good units!

I posted this a while back in the thread... Its how I'd like to return one!

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f2/Redwood39/toloweswithlove.jpg

[statjunk]

I will never buy another Whirlpool product again. Does anyone know the list of brands under the Whirlpool manufacturer?

I want to avoid those too.

Tom

[Squ1rrel]

Whirlpool Brands that I know of:
Whirlpool, Kitchenaid, Jenn-Air, Maytag, Roper, most Kenmore and Kenmore Elite...the sad part is is that in the last 5 years, Maytag appliances were even worse than Whirlpool...You'd be best off with LG, Fisher, and other brands like that, GE can be just as bad when it comes to appliances

[clovis]

Well, here is the story.

Whirlpool (WP) sent the manifold kit. This is after 2 phone calls.

Took about an hour to replace, and I did everything exactly to their specs.

WH, or as my 6 y.o. daughter says, water-ater, fired up, but wouldn't stay lit.

I am at day 7 at this point. Wife is upset, but not steaming.

Call WP. First call: The guy insists that the WH is not drawing. I confirm that it is pulling air thru the system. Basically says I am an idiot and I don't know what I am talking about.

Call 2: They next guy says that there is no way that the WH is venting/drawing thru the flu. Says that the 2" of snow last month iced over my flu outside. Basically calls me an idiot.

Call 3: Next guy says that the WH is not level. Basically says I am an idiot.

Funny that the WH has worked flawlessly for 4 years, and now its out of level? The flu is not drawing?

Call 4: This guy insists that I have negative pressure in the flu....whatever.

Call 5: Woman says that I have installed manifold incorrectly, but can't tell me what I have done wrong. Says that WP never has given an RA for return. Says that I am confused about what I have read on the internet about the Flame-lock WH. Says WP has only "had a few go bad".

Note: Wife starting to be REALLY upset.

Call 6: I ask about the RobertShaw valve. New guy says that the Robert Shaw valves never go bad. They either work perfectly or not at all. Says they have never had to warranty the valve.

Call 7: Guy tells me to contact RS for warranty info.

Call 8: Another guy tells me that my gas has been turned off by the gas company...while I stand over the forced air furnace vent while it blows hot air on me. Then tries to convince me that Vectran has a broken meter not allowing gas into the house.

Call 9: I think I got the guy from the first call. Tells me that the furnace is evacuating all the gas from the lines, causing the pilot on the WH to go out.

Wife is stupid angry at this point.

Call 10: I finally got someone with a brain. She knew this stuff inside and out. She walked me thru each and every step, and actually helped me trouble shoot EVERYTHING.

Tells me it is in fact the RS valve.

They will work intermitantly, and will super heat the water to scalding levels, which I have experienced for the past year.

Something about the bad valve allowing it to overheat a magnet inside (?), which ruins the unit.

Tells me to go to Lowes, buy the RS valve, and WP will refund the money within 15 days. I do not have to send the original reciept. ($58)

If this doesn't work, WP will give a RA.

Trip to Lowes: Two on shelf. One is opened and missing parts. Other is sealed, or so I thought. Got home and someone slicked Lowes buy returning their used part and sealing the box on the bottom.

Call 11: Guy informs me that they can send new RS valve, but it will take 6-10 days. Insists they NEVER give an RA. Then lied about the woman that helped me. I lost my cool at this point.

Trip to Lowes: I decided not to yell or curse at anyone, but I am obviously mad. I don't hide emotions well, per my wife. I am so agitated and mad that I am surprised that customer service didn't call a SWAT team. I was so mad that I wasn't making sense as I talked, except for "Get me a manager, NOW!"

Conversation with manager: I am still mad, and probably not making sense. He acted clueless at first about the Flamelock WH problem, then kinda fessed up. Not sure if he really didn't know, or if he was trying to avoid calling the police on a crazed customer.

I think he did hear me say: "I have been a loyal Lowes customer....I have been jacked around and lied to by WP...I am on day 11 with no hot water...."

Anyway...this Lowes manager is good....sent me out the door with an upgraded 40 gallon WH, and comped the $60 delivery fee!!!!!!! (I was too mad/lazy to go get my own truck.)

New Lowes WP WH is now installed. I have hot water again.

Wife is very pleased.

WP did in fact give a return authorization number today.

Wife is happy.

I am not thrilled with the idea of having yet another WP WH. Especially since they have not changed the design. I am looking at this as an inconvenience, and am mad that WP kept LYING TO ME and MISLEADING ME.

I STILL BELIEVE THAT WHIRLPOOL IS DOING EVERYTHING THEY CAN TO KEEP FROM REPLACING THE WATER HEATERS. IN DOING THIS, MOST CUSTOMERS WILL GIVE IN, JUNK THE WP UNIT, AND BUY SOMETHING ELSE.

BUY TREATING THE CUSTOMER POORLY, AND MISLEADING THEM, WHIRLPOOL WINS BIG TIME. THEY WOULD HAVE WON HUGE IF I WOULD THROWN THIS ONE INTO THE SCRAP PILE!!!!!! Think of the thousands of people that have done this already!

Now, before you all beat me up for replacing with another WP junk heater:

This could be a blessing:
1. I moved the WH out of the way....house is better functionally, and we have more room.
2. I got 4 years out of my old WH, and am starting anew with a free one. Saved $400.
3. I am within code now on 6 aspects of my gas and water.
4. I did in fact find a problem with the old brick flu, that could possibly be a safety issue.
5. I got a bigger WH than I had before.
6. I learned everything I needed to know about gas WH.
7. I learned alot about plumbing and gas lines.
8. We are getting the basement cleaned out. This got the ball rolling.
9. I have been buying new tools for years, and this helped me justify it with my wife.
10. I learned again that you don't have to scream and cuss to get something done.
11. Corporate America can be as bad as some people claim.
12. I think I have greater empathy for the poor, who have had their gas shut off, and for those in the world without clean hot water on demand, 24/7/365.
13. My wife thinks I am a hero of some sort. (Please don't tell her otherwise.)

Clove

[MG]

I sure hope I don't have the troubles you had Clovis...my BFG upgrade kit arrives tomorrow.

This is the 2nd time the thermocouple has crapped out - in the winter too. It couldn't happen when the cold water is coming in at 72 degrees...no...it has to happen when it is 52 degrees.

I went to Lowes to try to find a thermocouple last night - and as Mark said, they have pulled them all from the shelves. There was a note there that said to call the 1-800 # to get the part. I wrote on that note...

"WHY IS LOWES NOT SELLING THIS PART???"

"WHY DO YOU CONTINUE TO SELL THESE DOGS???"

[clovis]

MG-
You are right...Lowes does not sell the replacement thermocouple.

If I were you, I think I would install the kit that is coming.

Then, as soon as you have hot water again, I would start on trying to get an Return Authorization number to return the old unit to Lowes.

I was told that if you say the right things, and go thru the right process, you can get an RA.

The Robert Shaw thermostat regulator valve on my WH was bad. I have had super spikes in the water temperature over the last year to scalding levels. I guess this caused the burner to warp, and also kept burning out the thermocouple. I understand that this also caused some magnet to burn out, thus ruining the unit.

They instructed me to buy a new Robert Shaw valve and replace the old one.....if that didn't work, they would give me an RA.

You can do what you want with the info....but you have the answers you need....

Clove

[clovis]

Feel free to pm me.

[master plumber mark]

It would certaily piss me off if I went into
a LOWES and the store manager acts like you
are the first person to ever go into a rage about
that water heater..


treat you like a patsy and a chump on the phone,
then do the same thing in person......


The only thing I come away with from all this is I
appreciate my job..and my life....


because

How would you like to be the pathetic jerk that sits
at a phone bank all day long ..

Being told its your job to literally lie to
everyone that calls in about a their water heater

make them go away and we give you a raise???


What a great job and wonderful heights
you have reached working for whirlpool......

I wonder where do they find the souls to
accept a job like that?

working in the whirlpool service department is

basically like a "special place in hell" for losers that cant

find a real job anywhere else.....

or at least living in purgatory


http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryiii/

.

[MG]

I hope that upgrade kit fixes the problem. I haven't had trouble w/runaway temps so maybe it will.

I wish I had time to pull that heater out and raise it up on bricks so I can get under there easier. Cleaning that screen out from underneath is damn near impossible.

I am guessing CessPool is not giving Lowes the new part to sell. Instead I get the part / kit for "Free" - as long as I pony up the $18 for overnight shipping. At least that isn't so expensive.

[clovis]

About Lowes not selling the thermocouple:

I just skimmed over the lawsuit stuff...and if I got this right, part of the lawsuit is about Whirlpool knowingly selling thermocouples even though they knew there was a problem.

Again, I just skimmed over the info. I maybe incorrect about that.

As for the bottom screen: WP says this is the problem. My WH heater sits in a pretty dirty basement, yet the screen was spotlessly clean. Go figure.

Clove

[clovis]

By the way:

As for the original reciept topic that has been an issue with Whirlpool.

I forgot to mention that the gal who was the only person to help me, told me "NEVER send an original reciept to us. Only send a photocopy. Uhhh...those sometimes tend to get *lost*, if you know what I mean. Again, only send a photocopy."

She spoke this very clearly, with special emphasis as to say: Send the copy....good chance the original will get trashed, and you will have no recourse."

Just goes to prove that Whirlpool or American Water Heater is telling their employees to lie to the end user of the WH's.

Clove

[clovis]

Whirlpool Brands that I know of:
Whirlpool, Kitchenaid, Jenn-Air, Maytag, Roper, most Kenmore and Kenmore Elite...the sad part is is that in the last 5 years, Maytag appliances were even worse than Whirlpool...You'd be best off with LG, Fisher, and other brands like that, GE can be just as bad when it comes to appliances

Sad...We went to Menard's tonight, and on clearance, sat my wifes dream stove. She had that look on her face that said "I am going to own this stove."

That look lasted until I asked her "Did you know that Whirlpool owns Maytag?"

Her reply..."I wouldn't buy this stove in a million years!!!"

Clove

[Cass]

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

[master plumber mark]

went out yesterday and changed out a 3 year old one...

the gas valve was bad, and parts were 10 days out....



you cant win, you can only delay the ineviatiable.......

http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryiii/

[Cass]

MPM as this begins to explode and people find out how big this problem really is and how Cesspool and Low*s kept lying about the problem and continued to knowingly sell a product with problems but doing nothing about, it I think it will hurt sales to Low*s in general and,

Whirlpool could become a name with a meaning like what "made in Japan" used to mean.

[master plumber mark]

the only way that they will become

clean again is simply admit their troubles and

ask for forgiveness.....and pay real damages instead of

of trying to weasel out of everything.......

like Bill Clinton did years ago....



perhaps a full page ad in the new york times might help

or maybe Bribe Bill Clinton to become their spokesman....


http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryiii/

[clovis]

went out yesterday and changed out a 3 year old one...

the gas valve was bad, and parts were 10 days out....



you cant win, you can only delay the ineviatiable.......

I am not an engineer nor a plumber, just a happy home owner. The more I think about it, I wonder if Robert Shaw is to blame for a good part of the problem. Thier faulty valves, combined with a poorly designed thermocouple, could be the real deal.


Clove

[Nate R]

Thier faulty valves, combined with a poorly designed thermocouple, could be the real deal.

Clove

There's still the vent screen problem as well.

[Cass]

I am not an engineer nor a plumber, just a happy home owner. The more I think about it, I wonder if Robert Shaw is to blame for a good part of the problem. Thier faulty valves, combined with a poorly designed thermocouple, could be the real deal.


Clove

It doesn't matter if it is the Mfg. of the valves and thermocouples, they (Cesspool) did nothing about the problem, and they Low*s kept selling them.

[clovis]

MG,
If you want my old thermocouple manifold kit, you can have it as a back up. All you have to do is pay the actual shipping.
This is the original part assembly, not the upgrade kit that WP sent. I am sure that the thermocouple is still good.
Clove

[MG]

I may take you up on that offer. I got the part today and it is working.

[Dunbar Plumbing]

This thread is the main reason I always ask when they call for water heater repair, "what brand name" is standard procedure.

And I dare the next customer to call me up and say "Yeah, Lowe's/HD told me you all would come out and fix this water heater. They said that you send the bill to them."


Those are fighting words in my book as that's a blatant lie.

I sympathize with any customer getting bad quality product but do not call a plumber out of the blue expecting to pass the torch of doom to them.

I despise american mfg. water heaters. Same ones Central Hardware had,

Furrows
Home Quarters
Builders Square

select supply houses that don't care about customer satisfaction.


It's the cheapest priced heater out there so of course, it's going to get mass installed.

[clovis]

The reasons I originally chose the stupid Whirlpool:

1. Our local plumbing supply house was closed. They carried AO Smith at the time.
2. I remember thinking: "Well, if its got the Whirlpool name on it, it has to be a decent unit."
3. I was forced to borrow a truck to get the unit home, and Lowes was the closest.

I wish now that I would have waited 2 more days until the plumbers supply had opened.

Clove

[MG]

Well guess what...pilot light went out and won't stay lit again.

I'm guessing it is the crapola gas valve - I hope.

If it isn't I'll be putting in a new one from some other company.

[clovis]

I had the problem with water temps spiking.

Funny that they took my word for changing out the valve. As tough and misleading as they were, I am surprise that it was as easy as telling them on the phone.

I PM you with the rep I spoke to.

clove

[MG]

Spoke w/an actual person in America today...got a new gas valve installed and it fired right up. Now lets see if the damn pilot light stays lit after it finishes its initial heating cycle.

[MG]

So far so good...but it still bites that you end up replacing all the functional parts of the heater to get it to work.

I will have to get better with flushing it out - there was a bit of sediment build up and that is a problem for the probe on the gas valve assembly. It clogs up with sediment and doesn't read the temperature correctly.

[master plumber mark]

the only way to be sure it will survive is to
give it more air.....

how you do this is for you to figure out...

[MG]

When it is warmer here I'll likely take a day to disconnect it from the piping, put a pan underneath, and raise it up on blocks a few inches. The screen wasn't overly dirty like the ones you've posted pics of.

BTW - that gas valve is available at Low*s. The manifold kit however, is not.

The sign I wrote all over was replaced with a new one.

[clovis]

If you are going to that much trouble, why not try to get an RA for your unit, or kindly ask lowes to return it for a new one?
Clove

[master plumber mark]

no offence meant here, but
you got to be nuts to go to all that trouble...

all that heater is going to do is break your heart

if that thermostat is a left hand threaded to the threromcoupling, its just a matter of time before it
bites you in the butt again.......


I know,......

a guy has got to do ,
what a guy has got to do

good luck.....

[MG]

The thermocouple on the upgrade kit is a right hand thread that goes into the adapter (that is left hand threaded) which is connected to the reset switch.

Now whether this is bullshiznit or not I do not know, but the technical support guy I spoke with at WP told me yesterday that because they went to the right hand threaded ones you can replace them with a standard thermocouple. If that is the case those are available all over.

For now I have it working...and they ate the cost so that's going to have to do.

(I'm not trying to be argumentative - just passing along what I've learned).

Hey - what should I barbecue? I made some great chicken the other night that I put homemade mango / habanero jelly on after it was grilled. Sweet and spicy.

[Cass]

Not if it goes to a reset button because... standard thermocouples don't have reset buttons.

Maybe they have a replacement thermocouple for this "new and improved" one and that is what they were talking about.

Maybe you should stock up on thermocouples so you will be ready when it needs replacing. :)

[master plumber mark]

we have one of the new ones in my shop....


thenew problem with themis not the thermostat anymore,
or the thermocoupling....

it is the thermal re=set fuse you have to push
when it overheats...

and it does overheat when the flame does not get
enough air in the mixture to burn properly.



at Lowes, they dont sell the thermal fuses....


Technically yes --it is an improvement...

but anything is an improvemnt when you
are upgradeing on a piece of junk to begin with...

http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryiii/

[Bald Eagle]

The thermal resets can go bad I'll bet, do you know if they sell them at low*s?

[clovis]

The thermocouple on the upgrade kit is a right hand thread that goes into the adapter (that is left hand threaded) which is connected to the reset switch.

Now whether this is bullshiznit or not I do not know, but the technical support guy I spoke with at WP told me yesterday that because they went to the right hand threaded ones you can replace them with a standard thermocouple. If that is the case those are available all over.

For now I have it working...and they ate the cost so that's going to have to do.

(I'm not trying to be argumentative - just passing along what I've learned).

Hey - what should I barbecue? I made some great chicken the other night that I put homemade mango / habanero jelly on after it was grilled. Sweet and spicy.

My experience shows that the tech reps will tell you anything, whether it is true or not.

They have lied again and again.

Personally, I would not believe anything they said.

Clove

[clovis]

Now this from my daughter, who says I need to send it to Whirpool:

To Whirlpool:

Liar, Liar.
Too bad your pilot won't hold fire.
Hanging customers from a telephone wire.


Clove

[LVCHAS]

I found this site following a search of Whirlpool water heaters.

After doing what I had avoided, I decided to shut of the gas and do a drain and flush. My worst fear (problems) came true, when I tried to restart. No pilot lighting.

I had a simular problem when I first installed this unit, almost five years ago. Then (American) tech. support walked me through and it started. Oh, this is a FG, not FL model, it was made 01/03.

Having foolish faith in tech support, I called. Got the recorded message about the lawsuit, that came as a surprise! After listening, got through to India, not such of a surprise. The person, after I said that I couldn't get the pilot to light,speaking very good English, asked for the serial number.

He asked if I was indeed, me. I had regestered it on the first call five years ago. He told me that I could get the parts to repair the heater for free. I went for the $18 charge, for overnight. True to word, made the call at 10:20 am, and it came 10:15 am, next day.I live in Henderson, NV, DHL was the carrier.

I got the manifold door aasembly and a new gas valve. The valve came as a surprise to me, didn't remember that was to be included.

I'm thankful that the gas valve was included. I didn't want install it and get into that potential problem, unless I had to. I had to!

The manifold assembly install, was no problem. I got the pilot to light, but not stay on. After a lengthy and wet struggle, the gas valve solved the problem.:)

I like the large window and location, I can see the ignitor and pilot work! The old, small round window was worthless. IMHO!

The adapter for the thermalcoupler, now allows for right-hand, common used ones.

The connections for the reset switch on the adapter, do react to grounding. Today, while rechecking the gas line connection, I touched the wire connection on the adapter with the wrench. The gas valve shut down, burner and pilot. After waiting for the gas to clear, the start up worked. I would say that the reset switch should work, too. It did not need resetting, this time.

This is longer than I intended to post, but I wanted to thank all of you that posted you stories! I read all the posts and it offered me countless comfort! Thank you.

I also got a Quote for a Bradford-White replacement I can live with. That will be next.

Thanks, again!:cool:

[SJProwler]

Now just remember.... Every Habitat for Humanity home built in North America with Natural Gas will have one of these Water Heaters in it courtesy of Whirlpools Corporate Compassion. They donate all the appliances for each house.

I live in their hometown, Benton Harbor Michigan. They pulled their "Iowa Move" here about 18 years ago. Moved 18,000 jobs out in less than 6 months to TN, AR, Mexico, OH. Now they are spearheading a drive to drive people out of their homes and legally steal 22 acres of Lake Michigan Shoreline property from the City of Benton Harbor to create a Jack Nicklaus Signature Golf Course to pay back for when they took all of the high paying manufacturing jobs away. Also it is a nice way to put green grass over the property where their manufacturing plants sat and cover up contamination.

They aren't a very nice company. Any corporation that has a "Director of Outsourcing" definitely isn't thinking about it's employees or it's customer base in their own country.

I live in their World Headquarters hometown and every appliance in my home is either G/E, LG or Sharp.

[clovis]

If you call Whirlpool, good chance you will get someone from India.

Each time I got someone from India, I told them I wanted to speak to an American. They put me right thru.

Maybe I would have had better luck with the operator from India. The Americans did nothing but LIE, LIE, LIE.

Clove

[Ode2Pops]

My first post here. What a fantastic forum!

I purchased one of these Whirlpool “Flame Lock” water heaters from Lowe’s in January, 2004. After reading the details of the “Flame Lock” design, I realized the importance of keeping that flame arrestor screen underneath the burner chamber clean. I called and confirmed this with American Water Heater (the actual manufacturer of Lowe’s Whirlpool line of water heaters) and began to follow their recommendations. Every three months or so, I would take a damp sponge, get under the water heater and wipe off the arrestor screen.

The water heater worked flawlessly. Unfortunately about a year ago, I got lazy and stopped cleaning the arrestor screen (my bad!). Last week, the heater failed. Being still under warrantee, we received a free upgraded burner/thermocouple assembly from American Water Heater (shipping was 8 bucks – took 3 days to arrive).

I made sure the new thermocouple was pushed in completely in its mounting (it wasn’t) and installed the new assembly; however, before I did this, I made sure to clean and vacuum the burner chamber, including a good brushing and cleaning of the flame arrestor screen inside the burner chamber. It took me about 45 minutes to prepare the new burner assembly and install it in the water heater. It fired up the first time and has been working fine since.

I now have a printed maintenance schedule taped to the water heater closet door. Every three months, that flame arrestor screen is going to get cleaned and checked off.

Just my experience in the hope that it may help someone else.

I sure miss the old days when you didn’t have to bother with things like this!

O2P

[Redwood]

I sure miss the old days when you didn’t have to bother with things like this!

If you had bought a different brand you still wouldn't have to!

I notice something interesting about Lews...
As I walk through their aisles of Whilrpool Flame Lock water heaters for sale and turn down the aisle past the Zurn PEX fittings...

Why don't they pull the defective crap off the shelves?

[tcharles2]

Maybe this might shed some light on whirlpool or not but recently i purchased a whirlpool smart flame lock water heater 50 Gal. I noticed that the piolet would go out after a few days. I watched as i re-lit the piolet and noticed that water would drip down the center tube that vents the heat. It appeared to be a leak but was not a constant rate. At first i thought a new water heater leaking? and a high priced model too? I called Whirlpool and got a tech from india that brought back all the nightmares i have had dealing with any american company that has out sourced there customer service. To make a long story short the tech said the water heater swets and this is normal. After calling him several good old american names i learned from sailors i got his attention and found out that their is a massive recall on these units. For the so call sweting over the pilot light as well as the thermocouplers and a few other poorly designed components. Best decesion is to call Whirlpool give them hell get a return recall ID number haul the crap back to the store and buy a different brand for now. Seems they are in a big low on manufacturing water heaters at this time. in short run away from whirlpool as fast as you can!

[BrentAudi]

Okay.....
This is a great thread, and a great site! Thanks to all that posted your troubles about this crazy hot water tank design!
Here is the bottom line......
I have had this hot water tank for about 1.5 years. It is a 40 gallon version. Yep, bought it at Lowes. It is located in my basement. I work from home, and can hear when the tank comes on to heat the water because the burner is so loud. The last few weeks I have been getting really light headed, and getting terrible headaches. I also noticed that I would smell a "soot" type smell in the house. Well, being the airhead that I can be, I never once thought that what was actually happening was my headaches and the smell I was getting in the house was from the hot water tank, and just thought I caught a bug or something. About three days ago, I went down to the basement, and the smell that was in the house was very strong down in the basement. I then noticed that the smell was coming from the hot water tank, and it seemed to be coming from the bottom of the tank. So, I then started the search, and found all of you peoples woes.
So I decided that day to see if the "vent" on the bottom needed to be cleaned. It was dusty, but to me, not clogged in anyway. I then took off the front cover by the gas inlet, and to my surprise, I noticed that my take had the "new and improved" larger square viewing window and such. I vacuumed under the tank where the dust was on the "vent", and not much came off. This did not help. So, I then decided to take off the viewing window, and actually make the square hole bigger, to let in more air.
The smell has stopped, the burner is actually not as loud, and it seems like the "on-time" of the burner is less.
I am okay with this because I am not an idiot that stores flammable things in the basement. The smell has stopped, and I have not had a headache in days.
I really think that this tank does not supply enough air to the burner. Again, my "vent" at the bottom was not all that clogged.
I don't want to deal with Whirlpool, nor Lowes about this issue. I do want to eventually replace this tank with a "Tankless" gas hot water system. I just have not done enough research to find out what is that best right now.
I am not expecting everyone to do what I did! That is not the intention of this post. It did however, work for my "flame less" tank. And if can hold out for another year, that would be great.
Thanks again for your post! I would have never figured this out on my own. It is however scary to me to think that these tanks are working in this manner, all over the United States!
Brent

[Redwood]

Shut the thing off and return it to Lowes! You are describing CO poisoning and have altered the basic bad design into an unapproved design... May I suggest having a plumber install a Bradford White, or, Reem water heater...

[master plumber mark]

Brentaudi...........
Modifying that FVIR heater is something that a professional
cannot not do without running the risk of getting sued some-day...

of course you personally can do anything you want to that unit,

if you read this thread you see where some folks
have literally broke the glass sight port and left a gap
between the burner assembly and the side of the heater...
to get more air into that peice of junk......

you did not mention wether your heater had the new
high limit re-set switch on the side wall of the unit.....

either in o7 or o6 they modified the piece of junk that they
sell to upgrade the unit with that re-set button....


Beware...... if you have been getting headaches
from that heater that is not good sign at all.

God is tryihg to tell you something..

you better keep a real close eye on it
or on some cold winter morning you or someone else in
your home could wake up dead....

at least get a carbon monoxide dectetor http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryiii/
or do like redwood says and change it out.

[Cass]

While adding air the way you did may cause the burner to burn the gas better you may have a flue / venting problem...You need to have everything checked out to be sure or you and your loved ones could leave this planet sooner than you thought.

Rheem makes a good heater to replace that one with.

[BrentAudi]

Thanks for caring guys!
The tank actually did have the larger square window for viewing, but not that reset button. I was at Lowes tonight, and did see that the new improved "Flame Lock" tanks did have the reset button, and some of them had a Honeywell control valve. I did not even know that Honeywell made control valves for HW Tanks. Anyway, A very nice worker at Lowes asked me if I needed any help. I then asked him if he has had any complaints about this type of water heater made by Whirlpool, and he said: "Not at all! They are the best in the market." I just said thanks, and walked on.
Well....you guy's caring actually got me paranoid about the vent flue. I decided to get it checked out tomorrow by a good buddy that is a Licensed Plumber. I will let you guys know what his report comes out with. When I called him and told him why I needed it checked out, (because I was getting headaches and such) he asked what kind of Tank did I have. I told him, and then he said: "Oh, I see, you want me to change out your tank"? I just chuckled, and said that I just wanted him to come and check the flue, and tell me what he thinks.
Also, I do have a Carbon Detector, and it never went off in the house. It did however go off when I plugged it in in the Basement.
Will let you all know what the plumber tells me:confused:.
Thanks again for the great site, and this thread!
Brent

[master plumber mark]

that is so cute that they dont mention anythihng about their past problems...........

if you looked at that new honeywell energy smart valve on their best heater.....

it looks like another problem just waiting to happen

[Redwood]

Saturday I went to Lowes to pick up a part... (I hate doing plumbing on Saturday afternoon) and they had 3 of them little piggies on carts sitting by the returns desk! LOL I was tempted to ask the plumber (sic) if there were any problems with the units, then ask why there were 3 being returned but he was out to lunch or, something.

[BrentAudi]

Hello all,
Well, my plumber friend came by and check out my flue's and such. He said that everything looks good, and there is good draw for both Furnace and HW Tank.
He did tell me that his shop has had many of these FlameLock tanks. His opinion is that there is not enough draw from the bottom for the burner during cold temps, and more so when there it lint & debris caught in the filter on the bottom. Anyway, he suggested that I get another tank, and I told him that I wanted to go tank-less. So I am shopping for a tank-less water heater. I just like very, very hot temps for water, and this is what has stopped me from getting something as of yet.
I told my plumber that I saw at Home Depot a GE HW Tank that has a "Power Vent" on top of the exhaust. Like the new model furnaces. He told me that he thought that many states, on by one would start to make this code. He said that most furnaces and HW tanks in the US are vented in one vent. He tells me that venting a "fan forced" furnace vent with a regular HW tank, is not always good. He said when the code was written for this type of exhaust, it was okay, but they are not from test realizing that is not very good for draft.
I love GAS appliances. I always have, for many reasons. They just scare me sometimes.
I will keep you up to date if I get a tankless. Give me your comments on Tanksless HW heaters.
Thanks for everything guys and gals!
Brent

[ActionDeath]

This thread has been more helpful than Lowes, AWHC, or the Consumer Complaints sites.

My situation:

Pilot out, wouldn't re-light, cleaned flametrap, didn't work.
Called WP, paid $18 for door kit w/thermal switch.
Installed door kit, pilot lights but won't stay lit after first cycle, checked thermal switch but there was nothing to "reset" (not really a switch or button at all), after unit cools, pilot lights again, called WP, paid nothing for new valve.
Installed new valve, same problem as before.
Jumpered TC adapter, unit works fine.

Now, I don't intend to leave the jumper in place. I am a big fan of safety devices. My question is, has anyone attempted to modify the flametrap screen with slightly larger openings rather than removing the glass for more air flow? Is there a way to remove the screen completely, from underneath, for regular thorough cleaning?

[Redwood]

The best course of action it to shut off the gas valve. Shut off the water supply. Remove the smoke pipe. Drain the water heater cut the 2 water pipes. Undo the gas supply. Move it aside for a new Rheem or, Bradford-White!

[master plumber mark]

My situation:


My question is, has anyone attempted to modify the flametrap screen with slightly larger openings rather than removing the glass for more air flow? Is there a way to remove the screen completely, from underneath, for regular thorough cleaning?


Once the figure out how to bypass that high limit switch, then
its just a matter of time before someone burns down their house....


You really cant do anything to that bi-metal heat screen underneath that heater,
I though of getting a sharp punch and trying to blow some holes through it,
but you have to take the heater out to do this...
the screen point welded into place...

you are not supppoed to have to tamper with them in the first place
but the only thing that seems to work is letting in ari through the front cover...


http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryiii/


Do like REDWOOD stated and simply change the heater

[Cass]

Mark...if you punch holes in it it will allow flammable vapors to ignite and you will be liable for it.

[master plumber mark]

Mark...if you punch holes in it it will allow flammable vapors to ignite and you will be liable for it.


Yes you are right, the same thing with takeing off the front cover too..


the same thing with by-passing the hi-limit thermal fuse.....

people are doing this all over the country..

basically makeing the heater back into a pre2003 unit.....illegally..........




Honestly the Government really ought to pull that design of heater off the market..

their is no way that they have passed the UL standaards or
ANTSI rateings

Whirlpool has had to bribe someone to keep this on the market and
it is not fari to all the other competitors ou there that
have good designs like rheem and White

..http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryiii/

[ActionDeath]

Can't, I'm broke. My Wife and I are both unemployed right now. Does Lowes only sell WP water heaters? I mean, if I try to return it for a store credit (no receipt), do I HAVE to get another WP? If so, I'd rather just try to make this one work. Even if they do allow the exchange, I'll have to figure out a way to pay for installation.

I just thought the safest way to mod. one of these would be to mod. the poorly designed flame trap in a way that would allow more air into the unit. Thought I'd see if anyone had tried that. Believe me, I'd love to just get a new one, and leave the old one at the front door of Lowes, but that just isn't going to work for me right now.

[Redwood]

Have ya got CO detectors with fresh batteries?

[ActionDeath]

Of course!

[ActionDeath]

I'm not any kind of expert, but with the a gas furnace within 10 feet of the water heater, a furnace with no POS flamelock safety guard air-tight combustion chamber system, if flamable vapors were present, wouldn't the furnace ignite them? I mean, if that is the sole purpose of this crap, and my furnace is not equipped with such features, couldn't I just feed it more air and keep all of my flamable vapors out in the garage?

[Cass]

A water heaters combustion chamber is low to the floor where most flammable vapors will fall to and be drawn in to it, creating a fire.

Most furnace combustion chambers are higher up.

Water heaters in a garage are required to be up off the floor for this reason.

[ActionDeath]

Gotcha. That makes sense, it just seems to me that anyone with any sense would just keep anything flamable far away from any pilot flames. I guess there's an idiot born every minute.

Well, I spoke with WP again today... Had a nice young lady in the Philippines tell me she would send me another gas valve, I asked for a manager... A gentleman in India told me that they will not give me a new water heater unless mine is not repairable and that mine was definitely repairable. He transferred me to an American who walked me through a simple adjustment of the TC adapter, still wouldn't light. He asked me to bypass the thermal switch and it still wouldn't light. He told me to replace the TC and if that didn't work, I would get a new unit. I imagine another Whirlpool, but they're making good on the warranty and thats all I want. Well, that and hot water.

Funny though, I tried once more after I got off the phone with him and it lit just fine. Still, with the switch bypassed. Should I even waste the money on yet ANOTHER TC? I don't think there is anything wrong with it. I don't have a multimeter to test it, but it's been through several cycles with the switch bypassed and the pilot is still going strong.

[Redwood]

Don't worry about it. It will fail when you need it most!

[Dunbar Plumbing]

I talked my future customer out of this brand yesterday,


I save people more money than GEICO.

[JohnINLafayette]

Hi all,

I have the same model water heater that the original poster has and the pilot has gone out. I am currently working with Whirlpool to get them to send me out one of the upgrade manifold kits, however after talking with the tech service person I am not confident that they are wanting to do so.

Can anyone suggest a source for a Rheem or Bradford White dealer in the Lafayette IN area? Man, I hate the idea of dropping a ton of money on a new water heater when I just did so two years ago.

Thanks

John

[MG]

If you call the 1-800 # press 2 so you talk with a tech in Johnson City, TN. The techs know what they are doing - you might want to press the issue and get them to approve a new gas valve as well.

Pressing 1 sends you to India.

'nuff said.

[JohnINLafayette]

Thanks MG, #2 is what I pressed. I did not have the serial number with me when i called and only the model #. Maybe I just got hold of someone in a sour mood. The entire conversation was very abrupt and rude as if I was putting them out by calling. They tried to get me to pay 150 dollars for the new manifold.

Is there a special phrase or buzzword I should use that will trigger some sort of "I would like to help this guy out" reaction?

[master plumber mark]

I sent you info on where to get a Bradford....

let me know

[MG]

You really gotta have both the model # and serial # on hand or they can't help you.

[JohnINLafayette]

I called the WP tech number today and got a guy in India. He was very helpful, registered my heater for me and is overnighting the new manifold kit to me. All I had to pay was the 18 bucks. I figured I can take a chance on that before I replace this one with a Rheem.

Are the GE/Rheem heaters from Home Depot any good?


Also, thank you very much Mark for the info on the Bradford Heater I will certainly keep that in mind if I need to replace this Flame Lock.

[MG]

Just be ready to replace that gas valve...I got the kit and it fired up ok for one round and then didn't work. The valves are available at Low3s.

You should drain and flush it out too while you're at it.

[JohnINLafayette]

First I suppose I have to get the part. It was supposed to arrive today but no dice. What gas valve at Lowes are we talking about?

Thanks guys

John

[BrentAudi]

Hello all!
I finally had enough of this "Whirlpool" tank. The smell started again, and I decided to check into something else.
My Plumber friend told me that he did not think I would be happy with a "tankless" due to my hot water usage, and liking really hot water, and lot's of it. I have two big front load washer that run often, even while showers are going. So, he talked me into a Bradford White Power Vent. It is a 50 gallon tank. He told me that they were so efficient, that it would seem "tankless" because of the fast recovery rate. I trust him, and so I said go for it.
Well, he is correct. This bad boy Bradford heated the water after installed in 35 minutes! I thought something was wrong. So I ran upstairs, and it was amazing hot. This was yesterday. Since then, I have ran washers, two showers, and the dishwasher, and can't seem to make it run out of hot water! This morning for instance I took a 20 minute shower. (yes I am timing them) After the water was turned off, it took 16 minutes to heat to satisfaction. I was shocked. The Whirlpool would have taken about 40 minutes.
It is amazing to me that the flue for the Bradford does not get very hot. To me that is using the gas for working, and heating the water and not going up the hot flue. With the Whirlpool, you could not touch the flue for longer than 2 seconds, or you would get burned.
Can you tell that I am happy??? This is the first time in ages that I can take a shower without adjusting the shower as the water in the tank cooled down!
I owe it all to you guys! For telling me I was such an idiot to by the Whirlpool, but telling me to buy a Bradford White! Thanks all!
Oh, and about Rheem......the headquarters are here in Atlanta! I could not get any help at all from them! They kept telling me that they would call me back, and never would. Long story short. The company that sold me the Bradford said: "If you think they are bad when you are trying to buy, try to get them when you have a problem with their heater."
You guys are the best!
Have a great weekend.
Brent in Atlanta

[JohnINLafayette]

Ok I have decided. I am going to get the Bradford and White to replace the flamelock before I have to dump any cash into this thing. Does anyone have any experience with returning one of these things to Lowes? I am thinking if nothing else I can complain my way into a store credit.

Thanks,

John

[master plumber mark]

Well ....you can always try to get something
back form them but I think its doubtful and it
depends on the mood of the store manager

it really depends on your "whineing skills"....

threaten to set it on fire out in the parking lot.

have hot dogs and buns ready
.
that might persuade them to give you a store
credit

[Redwood]

Tell him he can either take it back quietly or its coming through the front window at high velocity...

[Squ1rrel]

Threaten to call corporate hq...then watch as the staff runs around like a headless chicken. And if they don't...Actually call:D One guy got his whole kitchen redone doing that....

[JohnINLafayette]

Well the Bradford heater is in place and works like a dream. I took an extended shower today and did not have to adjust the faucet at all. That was not the case with the WP even when it was first installed.

I also had great luck with Lowes. My mother in law happened to be in there on Sunday looking at water softeners. An older gentleman came up and asked if she needed any help. She explains to him that she came in determined to buy a softener but she can see that they only have Whirlpool and now she has some reservations. She then explains that her son in law has been to her house 3 times that week to take a hot shower because of his WP water heater problems.

The guy knew exactly what model and such she was talking about explains about the class action and assures her that the softener is not made by the same company as the water heater (which of course is true). He then passed her on to a younger guy who talked further with her about the softener and my heater. He advises her to have me bring in the old heater and they will give me a new one. She asked who I should see and he says "Me I am the store manager" and hands her his business card.

Now I am not interested in another WP and had already put in a Bradford. So I go into Lowes anyway and present the card to the customer service desk. The Store manager was not in so they had me talk to an assistant manager. I explain that they had told me they would give me a new one however I had already replaced it. I told them I had the old one in my truck in the parking lot and thought I would come in and see the store manager, as instructed, to see if there was anything they could do in the way of a store credit.

She asked me a couple questions and we talked a bit about the dead end one hits with the WP customer service and then she tells me to bring the old heater into the store. She then authorizes a full store credit for the 390.00 I paid 3 years ago for the heater. I was friggin' stoked because they really did not have to do that.

I thanked her and went directly back to the appliance dept. where I bought a Fridgidare dishwasher to replace our old worn out White Westinghouse.

All that and I didn't have to get crappy with anyone. This thread and members of this forum saved me a ton of headache and frustration. I am so grateful that I found this site.

Thanks all,

John

[master plumber mark]

That is great that you got the heater exchanged for a total
refund.... and it looks like you came out smelling like
a rose for what you paid for the Bradford.....


but just for meaness and spite you should have at least
thrown a --- mini hissey fit----


I am surprised that they did not fight youi or
give you some sort of "pro rated" allowance...

maybe they have seen enough "hissey fits" over this heater
in their store already........too much aggravation......

and have simply given up and thrown in the towell.


good luck with the Bradford.

[lkulb]

Model Number- Fg1j5040t3nov
Installed April 2005
Pilot Light Went Out Yesterday Took About Thirty Times B-4 It Lighted. After Tank Was Heated Pilot Went Out Again. Relit On First Try And Is Still On 24 Hrs. Later. This Is The First Time This Has Happend But After Reading This Thread "am I In Trouble ? "
I Don't Know A Thing About Water Heaters And Until Yesterday I Have Never Even Tried To Light A Pilot Light. Can Someone Please Advise.

[MG]

Clean the air intake screen on the bottom. Also, if it has the round sight glass to look at the pilot light then call the 800# in this thread and press 2. Talk to a tech and tell them you need the upgrade kit for that, and while you're at it be assertive in your request for a new gas valve.

[lkulb]

So This Model Is One Of The Bad Ones???

[Redwood]

I didn't realize there was a good one! Even their fix is coming up lame!

[lkulb]

Pilot Sight Glass Is Round. Called Whirlpool And From What I Was Able To Understand ( Bad English ) They Are Going To Send Me Everything I Need. If Pilot Light Does Not Go Out By The Time I Get The Kit Do You Think I Should Still Pay To Replace It Our Just Hold On To It?

[Redwood]

Eventually you will get tired of playing with it!

[MG]

Pilot Sight Glass Is Round. Called Whirlpool And From What I Was Able To Understand ( Bad English ) They Are Going To Send Me Everything I Need. If Pilot Light Does Not Go Out By The Time I Get The Kit Do You Think I Should Still Pay To Replace It Our Just Hold On To It?

Wait a second - are they making you pay for the parts? Other than shipping?

[lkulb]

No Charge For The Parts Just Shipping. I Was Just Thinking That If The Pilot Light Stay's On ( And It Has ) I Would Wait To Have It Installed. Plummer Wants $90.00

[Squ1rrel]

I still think that's gutsy---screw up your own product, then charge the customer to ship the part, AND make them pay for labor

[Redwood]

That is often how negotiated settlements in class action lawsuits work!
The lawyers win!

[lkulb]

If The Pilot Goes Out And You Are Able To Get It Going Again Does That Mean The Thermocouple Is Still Ok ?

[Squ1rrel]

Probably not. that thermocouple is going to keep shutting off the pilot randomly.

[lkulb]

It's Been Working Perfect For 48 Hrs. The New Kit Will Be In On Tuesday. I Guess I'll Have It If And When I Need It. I Am Still Holding Out Hope That I Don't Have To Pay The Plummer.

[Tim in Fort Worth]

I can't believe this thread is still going. Hopefully people all over the country have been able to benefit from it. I'd bet money that this site has become the #1 resource for consumers who have a Flame Lock go out on them and don't know what to do. As for mine, it's still working after the switch upgrade. It's almost a record, coming up on two years now. I really believe removing the viewing window extends the life of the faulty thermocouple, but those who advise caution have a very valid point too. It's better to be safe and get a reliable product. But sometimes it becomes a quest that you can't let go of until it ends in victory or death. I also like to think that I am somehow outfoxing Whirlpool and sticking it to the Man at the same time. For those who for whatever reason will have to keep their Whirlpool Flame Lock for years to come I have this bit of advice: Have at least two extra thermocouples on hand at all times. You get to where you can change them in the dark in about 45 minutes, and when it goes out you will only be without water for a few hours at the most. As they go out, replace them and get Whirlpool to reimburse you for them. One other bit of advice to all who contact customer service, be it in India or wherever. Don't stand for paying for the replacement parts or shipping unless you want the overnight delivery. I respectfully made my points and in the end I've never paid a cent to Whirlpool beyond what I originally paid for the water heater. They always agreed to sending the parts and paying the shipping. My ace in the hole was having the extra thermocouples on hand so I wasn't without hot water while waiting for the parts to arrive.

Man this thread cracks me up.

[addict4fun]

i purchased my tank about 2 yrs ago. i replaced the manifold with the upgrade kit, again the gas valve, and again replaced the thermocouple. i continued having problems with the pilot going out at least once a week for months. i was given the run around to have the gas line checked, balanced the water heater because they said the excessive water dripping was not the tank but condensation, cleaned the vent of course, and the check the exhaust vent(what ever that thing is) to make sure nothing else like the dryer was causing pressure. i am a single parent mother doing all the work myself, so i basically lost my mind and was happy when it would just last 3 days. i would check it every night to make sure it was on so the kids could have water in the morning. well, it finally gave out again 4 days ago and the pilot would not stay lit. i called again for the millionth time and got another Indian person i could barely understand. i ended up going back and forth to the store for about 2 hours getting the wrong part, being placed on hold, and then learning how to use a voltage meter on the thermocouple. i did not realize i could purchase a thermocouple at the store, so i had one sent over night for $18. the operator also sent a gas valve. maybe she figured i needed to replace that too just in case, since i had no idea how to use a multipurpose voltage meter (did not tell her but i could tell she knew). yesterday i replaced the thermocouple but the gasket or seal on the manifold door ripped at the bottom. i went to the the store. they did not have a replacement, a plumber overheard and said he carried therm but i needed to pay him $60 and whirlpool will assign it to him. i call whirlpool again this morning and explained to them i needed a new gasket. they had no idea what i was talking about after 20minutes. i went online to see if it was under some other name and that is when i found you guys. well, of course i was very upset. i then called again, tried to explain what i needed. they told me to have the plumber call them. i told them there was no way a plumber was going to explain to them what i needed for free and i was not paying $60 when i had already did all the work. of course i started raising my voice after i explained to them for the 5th time i had a torn gasket, where it was and how big the damage was. he placed me on hold, came on and had me explain again but it sounded like i was being recorded, then :eek:to my amazement told me to take the tank back to the store to get a replacement. :eek:i then commenced to having a nervous breakdown and told them in not so nice of a way that i hated whirlpool, that they sucked and never ever wanted anything to do with them. he gave me my authorization number and told me i could get a refund or replacement:). that is my story and hopefully the end. all i can say is keep on calling them and have a nervous breakdown, lol. good luck to all of my fellow whirlpool victims.

[Doug Lassiter]

I posted this today to the "daughter" thread over at http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19717
but it's probably more appropriate here. Pardon the crosspost.

This is indeed one of the most extraordinary consumer appliance horror stories I've ever seen. Unfortunately, I guess I've bought into it.


I installed a Whirlpool BFG model 40 gallon water heater from Lowes in December 2006. I actually haven't had any trouble with it so far (knock on wood!), though I do notice that I've had to turn the thermostat knob up somewhat to keep the hot water temp where I think it used to be. Is that the sign of an about-to-fail thermocouple?

I selected to claim the replacement manifold assembly, at least so I'd have it around when the thing failed. I sent that claim in by mail, using the claim form provided by the Settlement, on 12/07, but haven't gotten the replacement unit. Am I supposed to follow up the mailed claim to actually get one sent to me?

The unit is in a closet in the garage, open to the attic. It is on it's own short legs, so it's almost impossible to see the vent screen, but there is very little dust in that closet. I decided to remove the flame viewing window anyway, based on my impression from the posts in this thread about the importance of ventilation to the burner. Given the absence of flammable materials near the closet, and the "outer door" that should keep solid burnables away from the flame, this seems justified.

What precisely causes the thermocouple to fail, and how does airflow to the burner affect that? Never have understood that.

The thread is pretty long, and hugely informative, but it's gotten to the point that it's hard to pull out recommendations. Who (based on the particular unit that they have) needs to do what, to keep this beast alive? Is there some place where all this information is distilled?

Thanks!

Doug

[Plumber Jim]

Has anyone actually tested teh thermocouple? I have tested about a dozen and all were good. I believe the problem is with the gas valve. when the thermocouple gets just a bit weak ( plenty strong enough ) the pilot valve won't open. I think the tolerance on the valve is way off. The reason I decided to check all the thermo couples at one poit was because a teacher at a nate clase told me i was wrong that the thermo couple was completely fine after testing one i brought in. Seems all of the ones after that were too.. but the valves wanted a new one to work





http://www.broomfieldplumber.com

[master plumber mark]

The only way to say it is this water heater is
like "the perfect storm" ...... a total clusterfu// .......

their is supposed to be some sort of high limit build into that fat thermocoupling that senses the heat....

and when it gets too hot due to the screen underneath the heater being clogged up, it breaks the circuit to the heater...

the NEW thermocoupling has to be installed EXACTLY like
the old one was factory installed....
if you slap it in there
and get it slightly closer to the flame that the original one was then it usually goes out almost at once.....

of course you cant win becasue you cant get enough good
air into the thing to keep a back flash of gas from
burning out the t-coupling in the first place...

I cant get one to go back in perfectly...

how many have you had to man handle to get them
to lay right in the burner cage?

their only way to win is to get more air into
the unit and that is pretty simple to do.

but defeats the whole purpose
that the government and insurance comapnies was trying
to accomplish makeing them safer...

http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryiii/

[etsi_yona@embarqmail.com]

First of all, thanks to all who have posted great advice. I now know what I wish I'd known 3 yrs ago.

Being a disabled RN, I can't help but see the similarity between these "major" corporations and leeches. They are sucking the life right out of the American people a little at a time. When did the American people loose their pride in "Made in the USA"? Greed and the almighty dollar are making this phrase almost as worthless as the words "Made in China".

Ever wonder if these parts are purposely being manufactured by "3rd world manufacturers" and shipped to us to get even with us for shipping all of our outlawed, unsafe junk to them for so long?

Sorry, don't mean to get on a soap box, but these companies "done pissed Mama off." I know nothing about water heaters, but this WP Flame lock hunk of junk needs to be shoved up someone's corporate potooty. The settlement is not a settlement at all on that class action suit, it's more like putting a Band-aid on hurt feelings, entirely worthless!

I wish I had been aware of the problems with this wh before I purchased it in 2004. I've been lucky that it has held out this long. I'm now in the relight-on-a-regular-basis mode (hopefully that will continue to work for a little while longer) until I can get replacement parts, which I can't afford to pay shipping for, or a new wh falls out of the sky and miraculously lands in my utility room, all installed of course (ha ha ha). If I owned a truck and had the means to do so, I would return it to Lowe's and camp at their front door until it is replaced with a brand that actually performs as advertised. Actually, BBQing the thing in the middle of their parking lot sounds like such fun, but since the hubby and I are on a first name basis with most local law enforcement officials through our volunteer work, that might not be too fun....."yes Sheriff Greg, I did burn this thing intentionally!!!...." explain that to the kids as you're being given a ride in the car with the pretty flashing lights, wearing a pretty pair of silver bracelets.

[Ian Gills]

Had my Bradford White installed last week. Thanks for the advice on which heater to buy.

The plumber left it leaking (a very slow drip where the copper pipe screws onto the dielectric nipples), so I had to cut the pipe and repair it. Typical.

But it's working a treat now. I wish DIYers could buy these, then I would have taken my time and got the install just right the first time. Nevermind. Next time I'll get the plumber to leave it at the door.

[gmt]

I now qualilfy my customers who want me to repair their water heater. I ask where they purchased it or what brand it is... If they say Whirlpool or Blowes I tell them good luck, sorry, you will have to call someone else to repair. I will not tie myself to this junk.

If they want it replaced, fine.... But to try and get it going, no way.


Lesson learned....the hard way.

[Furd]

etsi_yona@embarqmail.com, if you want to rant specifically about the "Flame Lock" design of ALL water heaters now sold in the US then you need to complain to your elected representatives in Washington D.C.

This design is a REQUIREMENT that was forced by the National Government, specifically the Consumer Product Safety Commission, because of a very few incidents of a water heater being the secondary cause of explosions and fires in residences.

If the HOMEOWNERS that had had these unfortunate incidents had OBEYED the rules about no flammable items near the heater AND had they been properly (according to long-standing fire and safety codes) installed and maintained these incidents would not have happened. I'm willing to bet that in many cases the unfortunate incidents were a result of DIYers installing the heaters incorrectly and without benefit of a permit and inspection.

Americans, as a whole, have demanded the nanny-state we now live in.

[gmt]

I agree. But many of the manufacturers have designed a respectable unit that is trouble free.

Too many times Blowes and Home Sleazo have dictacted to the manufacturers how to cut costs and sell an inferior product.

That is where the troubles begin.

[master plumber mark]

[quote=Furd;132264]etsi_yona@embarqmail.com, if you want to rant specifically about the "Flame Lock" design of ALL water heaters now sold in the US then you need to complain to your elected representatives in Washington D.C.



Actually Furd......the INSURANCE COMPANIES lobbied congress to get safer water heaters made ...

and all the water heaters have had to pass very tough antsi and ul rateings just to be able to sell their brand of heater on the market....


the real stink lies in the fact that somehow American water heaters and or Whirlpool FAILED some of these tests a few years ago in 03 and have not cough up the large sums of money to atempt to pass them again......

Bradford white and Rheem cried foul about this issue
but it all fell on deaf ears....


The only thing I can figure is they either bribed someone very well or their was no reason for them to try to pass the tests because they knew that they were going to be bought out by SMITH eventually.. which has now taken place.....

so their design will most likely be phased out...

http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryiii/

.....

[cwhyu2]

My brother emailed me last night & asked me to help install a new W/H.
He called me to go take a look & told me that the owners purchased
A whirlpool W/H:eek:.They were going to have L***ws install it but they
wouldn`t due to flue issues that I will go look at this morning.
It is still in the box and going back:DI will recamend rheem as I have
never had a problem with them.

[cwhyu2]

New Rheem W/h installed took whirlpool back still in box.The person was
confused as to why we were bringing it back.I said it was not a good W/H.
He said OK.Installed new Rheem,corrected flue problem.New Rheem was
$10.00 less.Time wasted 1hr to take back whirlpool.All went well.

[Pauleyman]

Yet another victim, sort of. I have the new style BFG unit. It uses a standard thermocouple without that stupid bump in it. The thermal cutoff switch wires into the gas valve. I purchased this unit in Nov 07. Pilot would not stay lit as of last week. I didn't even bother testing it I just replaced the thermocouple as it seemed like the only possibility on a water heater 4 mos old. It was only a 7$ part anyway, didn't want the hassle of calling whirpool etc. Didn't work. Then I found all the internet info and this site. Went through the diagnostics after I found out I didn't have one of the older units. Found out I had a bad gas valve. Whirlpool dispatched a plumber at thier cost, I TOLD him what was wrong and be sure to have that part. 5pm he shows up, no part, says he can't fix it will return tomorrow. GRRR. I went back to lowes and they do not stock a gas valve. They DO stock the old one with the left handed thermocouple. Surprise, with no arguing they took a gas valve off a new heater and gave it to me as I had the return number from Whirlpool. Few hours later I took a hot shower. I don't care for the grill design but kept clean I don't see how it can be a problem. I am a mechanical engineer by trade so I'm a little overly analytical at times. Maintenance sucks but that will be another battle. I'm more concerned this gas valve won't last. It has never tripped the thermal switch, the inlet is clean, the flue drafts well, no big deal. Even now with the new gas valve a few days ago it doesn't seem like the hot water lasts all that long. Before I had ocassional problems also but could not pinpoint it, always blew it off thinking I had just used it all. Bad dip tube would show up all the time. Now I don't know what to think. It is working, just not sure if it's working right. Big clue might be the brand new units at lowes have a honeywell gas valve instead of the robert shaw I have. Any clues? If it fails on me again it's coming out and I'm demanding satisfaction out of lowes. Especially after the thousands I've spent there.

[hj]

I had my first one today, and Whirlpool is sending me a thermocuouple with a manual reset instead of the fusible line one. In order to get it before next Friday, which would have meant the customer would be using cold water for a week, I had to pay them $35.00 for overnight shipping to get it here Monday. You would think that the company would automatically send them overnight rather than create bad relations by either charging or inconveniencing them for a week.

[master plumber mark]

HJ.... They dont care about their image anymore....

if they can make you pay 35 bucks to ship something
overnight that costs them 20 to ship ...thats great.....

they already KNOW its not going to solve the problem for long,

but it gets you out of their hair..and they hope that you
finally just give up and go away.......

its all about damage control
....any way that they can stop the
bleeding over the next few years on this nightmare
is really all that matters to them...

they cut a deal with the lawyers and they bribed someone
high up probably in congress to let them off the hook in that class
action lawsuit...

they should be made to change them all out
but they probably have 10- 30 million of those heaters out
in the field that are all needing love and attension

and if they had to pay shipping on them that would
cut into the CEO of Whirpools bonus for next year

so they make the stupid home owner
pay or he goes with cold showers for a week.
.................................................. ...........................


HJ....Now.....wether the thermal switch and new controll
actuallly works is the next hurdle you have to
jump...

I suggest you take an air compressor with you
and a hose cause you must blow out the crap
from underneath the unit or it is all in vain.

a long steel wire brush to reach up under the unit can alos
work if you have the room to get underneath it...

also .....remember to find a way to give it more air......
more air into the heating chamber is the key to winning the battle......

I really hope that you enjoy the experience...

try not to cuss too much in front of the customer... http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryiii/

[Cass]

hj, welcome to the club...you are officially now a member in good standing.

[Pauleyman]

THAT IS IS!!! This morning the heater wouldn't even supply enough water to fill a bath. Something is still wrong. I just don't know what. The burner appears to be working fine. The flaw has to be in this feeback circuit. Nothing has changed in the last week except I put in a new thermocouple and gas valve. The thermocouple shouldn't have anything to do with temperature. It's should be merely a safety to see if a flame is always present. IE the discussion of pilot wont' stay lit, because there is no thermocouple signal. Red button is merely a manual gas bypass to get it started. Has anybody taken a robert shaw gas valve apart? I honestly don't believe there is a design flaw in these heaters. I think its's a poor design but IF maintained and cleaned should work fine. Even the annual recommendation in the manual is probably okay as I found nothing on my intake after 4 months. I'm willing to live with the aspect of maintenance but not this. If I don't find the root cause soon this water heater is coming back out and Lowes IS going to refund me. I'm not on the last straw just yet but very close.

[master plumber mark]

their is nothing wrong with the robert shaw valve..

its a common robert shaw valve....

you are not supposed to break them down...
they are sealed shut so "cheap asses" dont try
to rebuild them

BASICALLY.................

the new thermal switch on ths side of the heater
is senseing too much heat and it is shutting the unit
down....

the reason it is senseing too much heat is either

1. the unit is not getting enough air to burn properly...

2... the chimney is too restricted with the flu baffle
going out through the middle of the heater.

3. and basically their is not enough draft to make
the heat rise up through the chimmney...fast enough


their is no draft out of the heater....

the only way it is not going to overheat and trip the
senser is somehow to give it more air..
to create a draft out the chimmney...

the only way that can be done is to leave the sealed cover
to the chamber loose so air can get into the unit...

or you can break out the looking glass....

of course this totally aborts the safety features of the unit
and is considered illegal to do..


go ahead and beat your brains out if you absolutely must.

I still think you should set it on fire in the lowes parking lot....


http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryiii/
..
.....

[Pauleyman]

The draft though the chimney is fine. The thermal switch has never tripped. I ran a smoke test on the chimney just to check it. I called whirlpool today and they are sending me a new gas valve and a dip tube. It runs fine now but seems to run out of hot water too quickly. What is inside this valve to keep it from firing? Only thing I can see is the thermal switch exterior to it and it always shows continuity. BTW they did not charge me a dime and are sending it next day air.

[Squ1rrel]

Probably trying to avoid a lawsuit on their new ones too...Wouldn't be surprised if that dip tube is broken though

[master plumber mark]

I think the new design is actually going to be worse than
the old one.....

I got one fellow calling on one that was installed in October... in a tight laundry room
he cant find a new thermal switch....

and the other person sounded like they were haveing about the same problems...


all I can figure out is the lawyers have told Whirlpool not to change the basic design of the heater, which would be like admitting guilt. so they change one problem out fo r another.

[Pauleyman]

I understand the airflow requirements and the fact the screen will clog easily. This is most certainly a design flaw and the root cause of the problems. What I'm not convinced of is if you do follow the maintenance that this unit won't run just fine. In that laundry room the guy probably clogged that screen very quickly. In my particular case I think I just had a bad valve. I honestly don't think anything caused the problem. Even my original thermocouple is still good. I still think the maintenance requiment sucks but I'll willing to live with it rather than go through the hassle of replacement. I'm also not sure just how well the unit will respond when dead cold as it takes a little time to start a draft.

[Cass]

There is a black prescreen / filter that wraps around entire bottom of the heater, it is about 3" high and is supposed to catch lint, hair Etc. before it gets to the air intake on the bottom of the heater...do you have this installed?

[Pauleyman]

No I do not have that installed as I do not have one. I am aware that it exists. I was a little surprised that they gave me another gas valve given Lowes already did. Of course they may not know that yet as it was only a week ago Monday. Either way I don't care. I'm going to try this as it's an easy part to change compared to the half day I would spend on a new heater.

[master plumber mark]

remember if you read the fine print it clearly states
that if you do not clean the air filter every 3 months
the warranty if void...void...void....


I cant remember to change my furnace filters or
clean my gutters before a good storm,

and they expect a novice to break down a
heater and clean the internal and external screen...

yea....sure ...right..........now if that is not the biggest
load of horse crap that has come down the pike......

I dont know what is...

good luck with your maintiance


here is a little tid-bit for ya...

http://www.my3cents.com/showReview.cgi?id=14643

http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryiii/

[Pauleyman]

Yeah I read all that when I first had problems. I'm certain I'm a little too analytical. I'm a mechanical engineer by trade so I try and be as objective as possible. I do not believe you have to break down anything to maintain this heater. Merely clean the bottom. It was easy to get to for me. There were alot of poor decisions regarding this design but I understand some of them. The left handed thermocouple in the older design? This kept people from installing a standard thermocouple which defeated the safety. The solution, add a separate thermal switch. They should have done that in the first place. The inlet screen? I'm not sure. How else can you keep a flammable vapor flame front from propagting outside the burner chamber? I have not seen other designs so I cannot comment. From what I understand this is what is supposed to happen should a flammable vapor get inside and ignite. It's a very crappy design for the average homeowner. Thankfully I'm not average. I'm still cautiously skeptical but for now my showers are hot. I'm currently responsible for the maintenance and projects for 10 large buildings for the transportation industry. Whats one water heater? I do wish I would've known the BTU and recovery time for my old water heater. I think the dip tube is too short also. I may opt to replace it with a better one. Kind of like modding my car, can't leave well enough alone.

[Furd]

Quite honestly, there was nothing wrong with the old design as long as they were installed as specified.

Regardless of who lobbied the Congress, the bottom line is that every single water heater that ignited flammable vapors was either installed contrary to the heater's instructions and/or national and local codes OR the home owner did something stupid like storing flammable solvents in close proximity to the heaters or was spray painting in close proximity to the heaters.

Once again the majority takes it in the rear because of the stupid actions of a few.

[Nate R]

There were alot of poor decisions regarding this design but I understand some of them. The left handed thermocouple in the older design? This kept people from installing a standard thermocouple which defeated the safety. The solution, add a separate thermal switch. They should have done that in the first place. The inlet screen? I'm not sure. How else can you keep a flammable vapor flame front from propagting outside the burner chamber? I have not seen other designs so I cannot comment. From what I understand this is what is supposed to happen should a flammable vapor get inside and ignite. It's a very crappy design for the average homeowner. Thankfully I'm not average. I'm still cautiously skeptical but for now my showers are hot. I'm currently responsible for the maintenance and projects for 10 large buildings for the transportation industry. Whats one water heater? I do wish I would've known the BTU and recovery time for my old water heater. I think the dip tube is too short also. I may opt to replace it with a better one. Kind of like modding my car, can't leave well enough alone.

Uh, what? I work w/ mechanical engineers for a living in a development setting. There are poor designs all over the place. Cost often rules. Maybe you haven't encountered the stupidity that's out there. Often times a better design should have been used in the first place but isn't because of cost, etc. So there very well could be a badly designed product, or something that expects too much from the user. It's happened plenty before and will happen again.

[HeyRube]

The freakin cure. OMFG. I have been round and round with this sucker, trying to figure out WHY? Call it a disorder.

Two things stuck in my mind.

The thermocouples are not bad in most cases. And sometimes, even brand new, the freakin pilot light will not stay lit.

I had to take apart my old water heater (old style) before I figured it out. Although, I must admit, it was the first thing that popped into my head when I looked at the pilot light. It looked too small to me.

And it is. That is why it won't stay lit. The pilot flame is too small. The control box does not allow for pilot light adjustment. But...there is a pilot jet inside the pilot light assembly. My old water heater had the same exact pilot jet. Here's the catch. My old water heater had a single flame. The Whirlpool has a split flame or dual flame. One half heats the thermocouple, the other half lights the main burner. The pilot jet that is installed in the Whirlpool is for a single flame pilot light--NOT the split flame or dual flame pilot light assembly.

The fix? Put the sight glass back in. Undo all the other things you might have done. Take the pilot jet out. Enlarge the oriface (hole) by double. Yes, I do know that doubling the size of the oriface means more than twice the gas. But it seems to work best, and is the easiest to approximate.

How could Whirlpool be so freakin stupid? To do all the things they did...and not even realize they had the wrong pilot jet installed. All they had to do is look at the pilot light, and the first thing that pops into your head is, "Hey, that looks a little small." Swear to God. Go look at it. Tell me it's not too small.

Whirlpool still don't know. Someone else can tell them. Whirlpool can KMA. Not for making a simple mistake. But for the run around I been getting. Oh, Whirlpool. If something don't work right, figure out why, or don't sell it to the consumer. Only by an alignment of the all planets does this water heater work at all. By the sound of it, if ANY factor is not in its favor, the pilot light goes out. It is barely big enough. It is always just about to go out. Certainly, the first cycle of the burner coming on, and going off, will blow out the pilot light. That is what happened to mine, over and over and over. I watched it. This pig never worked right. Those are the facts. The pilot light is too freakin small. It never worked right for Whirlpool either. This pig never worked. Period.

If I had not taken apart the old water heater pilot light assembly, and control box, I would not have noticed that they both had the same pilot jet, and one was a single flame, and one was a dual. Before I noticed that, I was thinkin about...swapping pilot light assemblies. Turned out not to be necessary.

Yup. It works fine:

Take the installed pilot jet, and enlarge the oriface by double. It is a very small hole to begin with. I had a backup from the old water heater, but still, I made a little tool for the job from a wood screw. If you made it too big, you could, I suppose, solder it shut, and make a new oriface. The jet is well away from the flame. If you're gonna purchase one, buy the right one to start with--the dual flame pilot jet.

Look at the crap they send you, just to keep the pilot light lit. It is so funny. Why didn't Whirlpool check the thermocouples to see if they were in fact bad? Sheesh. I swear, if you look at the pilot light, you'll think, "Too freakin small." Go look.

Funny, funny stuff, no?

[HeyRube]

This is what is in the Whirlpool currently. It is the same sized pilot orifice that came out of my old, single tip pilot burner. I compared the two, and that was when the light came on.

Orifice BCR-18 (0.018 in.) For Pilot Burner, front single tip style.


This is the size it should have, by the looks of it.

Orifice A26 (0.026 in.) For Pilot Burner, batwing tip style.


So simple. So stupid. Probably, somewhere along the line, the pilot burner got changed to a batwing tip, and they forgot to change the orifice to a larger one. They been suffering bad results ever since, I bet. It is almost comical.

I have fixed four of these the past month, by making the orifice larger by double, and finally, all those pigs work like they are supposed to. I really wasn't lookin forward to draining them, and taking them back to Lowes. But I would have...you can only listen to so much whining.

Can every single ill that ails it, be explained by a sputtering pilot light? I mean, how could a weak pilot light affect water temperature? Why would a new thermocouple seemingly fix the problem if the problem was a weak pilot--which you did not address?

An aside: none of the components associated with this Whirlpool are unique in any way. There is nothing wrong with any of them per se. The gas valve is OK. So is the thermocouple. The pilot jet orifice is just too small. It is a common part as well. All those devices operate fine in other appliances. None of them are at fault in this case.

Another aside: I own one myself. It sits with one other old style water heater, and a coin operated washer and dryer, in a 6 X 6 room. The Whirlpool water heater heats that room up more than any water heater I've ever put in there. If you go stand by it, you can feel radiant heat emanating from the bottom of the water heater. This effect is more pronounced in the Whirlpool than any other water heater I have ever seen. It seems...abnormal.

And it is. That heat is wasted heat. All heat should be used to...heat water. Not heat up my dimly lit laundry room. That the heat is not being drawn up into the unit proper to heat water is obvious. You can always tell when the Whirlpool is in service because it runs hot. Just go stand by it. It's the hottest running water heater...ever. It runs hot even with the sight glass removed. It needs MORE air flow yet. Normal aspiration is probably just barely enough. What do you wanna bet?

Craftmanship = F
Design = F
Overall grade = junk

[Cass]

The reason it is not drafting right is the main problem with all the units that you missed.

The air intake which is on the bottom.

It is undersized and clogs with lint, further reducing the air flow. This raises the heat / temp in the sealed burner area which is what you feel.

They now have a resettable heat sensor on the new units and send replacement burners assembly's with the resettable heat sensor on them because of thermocouple failure and the replacement cost associated with constant replacement. The old style burners might have one go bad in a lifetime.

They have not addressed the main problem.

[HeyRube]

Umm, I didn't miss jack. I read the entire thread.

Yes, the air intake is not properly sized, regardless of lint clogs. That is why peeps open it up. Why they take out the sight glass. Yada. I'm saying even opened up, it still does not draft properly.

You are confusing the two issues. The thermocouples don't fail. The pilot flame is too small for the thermocouple to create the proper voltage. As they get older, they become less sensitive. It only appears to fail. If you increase the pilot jet size, and thus, the pilot flame, the thermocouple will work again.

Listen, it gets hot in there, but not that hot. A thermocouple can take the heat. It's made to. That is how I knew the thermocouple burning up issue was a red red herring. Remember, Whirlpool does NOT know the pilot jet is too small. They think the thermocouples are going bad. They should have tested them.

Resettable whatever. You gotta remember, they are trying to keep the pilot light on without the knowledge that the pilot jet is too small. Their so called fix...is why I started to look elsewhere. That fix is just plain wrong. It is wrong to approach a problem like they have done--without trying to determine why the pilot is going out. The fix itself told me that Whirlpool don't know what the problem is. They addressed the symptoms, not the problem.

I don't know where the idea came from that it was so hot in the burner area that the thermocouples were burning up. That just does not happen. It's hot in there. It is the hottest running water heater I've ever seen. But it ain't that hot. Thermocouples are not burning up. Who told you that? Whirlpool? Don't believe everything you hear. Thermocouples are not burning up!

Even if you open the entire bottom up, like an old style water heater, you will still have issues with the pilot light going out. Replacing the thermocouple with a new one WILL work in all probability. A new one is more sensitive to the flame. But that only appears to fix the issue. The real issue is the pilot flame it too small.

In case you didn't figure it out, I'll explain it to you. ALL the issues involving this water heater are due to the pilot flame being too small. The pilot jet is incorrect. That it is getting so hot inside the burner area that thermocouples are burning up is...insane. That is not happening. It is something someone, who didn't really have a firm understanding, made up to explain the symptoms they were faced with. It made sense then, but it makes no sense now.

The pilot won't stay lit. Why? The pilot jet orifice is too small. That mimics a bad thermocouple. It thinks there is no flame. But there is. It is just too small.

Everything else is bull. No, they have no addressed it. They don't even know yet.

Umm, listen. The theromcouples are not burning up.




The reason it is not drafting right is the main problem with all the units that you missed.

The air intake which is on the bottom.

It is undersized and clogs with lint, further reducing the air flow. This raises the heat / temp in the sealed burner area which is what you feel.

They now have a resettable heat sensor on the new units and send replacement burners assembly's with the resettable heat sensor on them because of thermocouple failure and the replacement cost associated with constant replacement. The old style burners might have one go bad in a lifetime.

They have not addressed the main problem.

[master plumber mark]

I dont think its worth getting into an argument over
this subject....

everyone agrees that Whirlpool water heaters are crap....

their is no reason to dispute the exact color of crap....

its still crap...

[Cass]

Umm, I didn't miss jack. I read the entire thread.

Yes, the air intake is not properly sized, regardless of lint clogs. That is why peeps open it up. Why they take out the sight glass. Yada. I'm saying even opened up, it still does not draft properly.

You are confusing the two issues. The thermocouples don't fail. The pilot flame is too small for the thermocouple to create the proper voltage. As they get older, they become less sensitive. It only appears to fail. If you increase the pilot jet size, and thus, the pilot flame, the thermocouple will work again.

Listen, it gets hot in there, but not that hot. A thermocouple can take the heat. It's made to. That is how I knew the thermocouple burning up issue was a red red herring. Remember, Whirlpool does NOT know the pilot jet is too small. They think the thermocouples are going bad. They should have tested them.

Resettable whatever. You gotta remember, they are trying to keep the pilot light on without the knowledge that the pilot jet is too small. Their so called fix...is why I started to look elsewhere. That fix is just plain wrong. It is wrong to approach a problem like they have done--without trying to determine why the pilot is going out. The fix itself told me that Whirlpool don't know what the problem is. They addressed the symptoms, not the problem.

I don't know where the idea came from that it was so hot in the burner area that the thermocouples were burning up. That just does not happen. It's hot in there. It is the hottest running water heater I've ever seen. But it ain't that hot. Thermocouples are not burning up. Who told you that? Whirlpool? Don't believe everything you hear. Thermocouples are not burning up!

Even if you open the entire bottom up, like an old style water heater, you will still have issues with the pilot light going out. Replacing the thermocouple with a new one WILL work in all probability. A new one is more sensitive to the flame. But that only appears to fix the issue. The real issue is the pilot flame it too small.

In case you didn't figure it out, I'll explain it to you. ALL the issues involving this water heater are due to the pilot flame being too small. The pilot jet is incorrect. That it is getting so hot inside the burner area that thermocouples are burning up is...insane. That is not happening. It is something someone, who didn't really have a firm understanding, made up to explain the symptoms they were faced with. It made sense then, but it makes no sense now.

The pilot won't stay lit. Why? The pilot jet orifice is too small. That mimics a bad thermocouple. It thinks there is no flame. But there is. It is just too small.

Everything else is bull. No, they have no addressed it. They don't even know yet.

Umm, listen. The theromcouples are not burning up.

OK your right, the 50-60 I have replaced didn't work because the flame was to small, so why does the new one work...more sensitive like you said, because the old one was bad...less sensitive...I suggest you go work for them and straighten them out on this issue. The units are junk and have been since they came out. Plain and simple.

BTW Whirlpool doesn't know anything because they don't make it.

[Plumber Jim]

I agree its not the thermocouplings getting too hot. If you actually test the thermocouple with a meter with the pilot on it you will see that it is giving enough millivolts but the gas valve is requiring more than the valve should so as soon as the thermocouple gets a little weak the pilot goes out. I have tested many that where like 17 plus millivolts and wouldn't work till i replaced them with a new one. and they were connected correctly.

[Cass]

The original thermocouples had a heat sensor built into the thermocouple and would become weak or bad then requiring replacement.

The new design has a resettable heat sensor that is supposed to make resetting easier...only having to push a button.

Not sure if it will cause the millivolts to just become weak.

[HeyRube]

Hi Jim

Yeah, I concur. The thermocouplings are not burning up.

You know, when you read a long thread like this one, you'll find there is plenty of bull, and plenty of facts. The hard part is trying to figure out which is which. Your post #194, where you said the thermocouplings were not bad, struck me as fact. That is what caused me to turn my attention to the pilot light. Sometimes, a seemingly inconsequential observation, makes all the difference :)

You know, other than putting in the correct pilot jet, I guess one could replace the thermocoupling with one that has a higher voltage. Then when it ages, becomes less able to generate voltage, it would not fall off the plateau.

Regardless, I won't ever buy another. It's a POS.


I agree its not the thermocouplings getting too hot. If you actually test the thermocouple with a meter with the pilot on it you will see that it is giving enough millivolts but the gas valve is requiring more than the valve should so as soon as the thermocouple gets a little weak the pilot goes out. I have tested many that where like 17 plus millivolts and wouldn't work till i replaced them with a new one. and they were connected correctly.

[master plumber mark]

whther the chicken or egg came first...

at least you all agree that

its a piece of crap.....

[MG]

Well today I get to make "the call"...someone is taking this Cesspool piece of garbage back. I don't care if it is Cesspool or Lowes.

I got the reset switch to work once last night - went through one cycle and then crapped out. I doubt its dirty under there - I rubbed my fingers on the screen and they weren't dirty at all.

I'm going to HD today and buy a GE-Rheem...enough with this shinola.

[JohnINLafayette]

The best thing I ever did was replace that WP with a Bradford White. Going on 3 months now and I don't even think about my water heater.

[jriedl]

I too have one of the Whirlpool Flame Lock water heaters that I've had for over 5 years now. I just recently had a problem where the pilot light won't stay lit and Whirlpool sent me a whole replacement assembly that I replaced with no problem, but the pilot light still wouldn't stay lit. I troubleshot per the flow chart supplied and called Whirlpool with my troubleshooting results and they overnighted a Gas Valve/Thermostat assembly to me. My question is there is a plastic cover that seems to be fitted over the probe that goes inside the water heater. The instructions don't say anything about removing the plastic prior to installation and naturally customer support is closed. Does anyone know if the cover should remain in place? Also, the customer servise rep didn't mention anything about the filter, but after reading all of the complaints I'm definitely going to check it.

[livereater]

I recently received my replacement manifold per the lawsuit. No instruction were provided for those strange new parts. I stored it away as a spare part. Well, like everyone else that owns a Whirlpool Flame-Lock, I ended up using it sooner than later. I only wish I had found this forum before I tried to put it in myself. When I began to screw in the thermocouple nut - without the adapter provided in the kit - I had the hardest time getting that new right-threaded nut to go in the left-threaded hole in the controller. Imagine that! I'm thinking, "Those idiots can't even get their parts to match!" So I did the unthinkable and just tried to start that left-handed nut into the hole as if the nut was right-threaded. And guess what! It went in with little resistance! I'm thinking to myself, "Now I could have sworn that puppy was left-handed when I took it off. Maybe, it wasn't." It was only after reading this forum that my fears were confirmed: I obviously re-threaded the nut or the hole. Either way my water heater is working again. My question to you all is this. How necessary is the reset switch? And if it IS necessary, should I try to "re-thread" yet once again?

[Redwood]

My question to you all is this. How necessary is the reset switch? And if it IS necessary, should I try to "re-thread" yet once again?

None of this is necessary when you rip that junker out and slap in a new Rheem or Bradford-White.

[Redwood]

If you have not submitted your claim yet under the terms of the class action lawsuit...

You are officially screwed!

June 28, 2008 Postmark Deadline for Claim Submission

Not that their Fix it Kit really did anything for you anyway!

[master plumber mark]

I recently received my replacement manifold per the lawsuit. No instruction
And if it IS necessary, should I try to "re-thread" yet once again?


I have got two replacement kits myself,
they came from customers who feared to
fool with the water heater in the first place....

we tore it out and put in the bradford ,

how you were able to crank that theromcoupling into that
valve is a mystery to me...,

and this all makes me wonder , no instructions in the box
and with most people really not capable of messing with a gas valve
or thermostat, ...

who will be the first person to try sue whirlpool
when they burn their own house down....or blow it up??

[livereater]

I suppose I understand your hesitation in answering my question given the issues of liability this water heater is surrounded with. My understanding is that the purpose of the reset switch is to lengthen the life of the thermocouple. I will, therefore, leave the reset switch dormant until either 1) the next time I have to replace the thermocouple or 2) I decide to replace the water heater. The orifice theory intrigues me. I hope to hear more discussion about that.

[master plumber mark]

the high limit was designed to keep the thing from overheating.....
and of course it is totally half assed designed
on the whirlpool unit....

considering that Whirlpool sends this kit out to
un-lliscensed amatures to install themselves
without instructions...

http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryiii/

[Tim in Fort Worth]

who will be the first person to try sue whirlpool when they burn their own house down....or blow it up??

LOL...well it obviously won't be me. The paper trail would get me laughed out of any court in the world. The only thing I'm missing is a MySpace or FaceBook page with pictures showing me doing all those sneaky things to the nasty bugger. But to me it has become a kind of duel with the devil. My warranty is in the last few years and I will be victorious over this devil. I haven't had any problems since I got the new manifold kit installed...and haven't cleaned any of the filters since then, either. I've also got a few spare old-style thermocouples I browbeat Whirlpool into sending me, totally free of charge. I'll yank the adapter off and use the old thermocouples to limp across the finish line if I have to. I will not be denied my birthright to rule over this water heater!!! On a lighter note, I had an 18,000 BTU Whirlpool AC crap out on me on Independence Day. Replaced it with a Fridgidaire and used a screw gun to dissect the Whirlpool, and got $36 for it at the scrap yard (only $5 if you don't separate the metals). Guess what's going to happen to my little Flame Lock friend the first time it quits on me after the warranty expires? I'm sure the scrap yard will give me a buck or two for it...:D


considering that Whirlpool sends this kit out to un-lliscensed amatures to install themselves without instructions...

Hey! I resemble that remark!

[Redwood]

Tim it sounds like you are trying way to hard to get your money's worth out of this thing.

Before I put that much effort into an exercise in futility...
Take helicopter flight lessons with the intention of returning it to Lowes...
Through their roof!:eek:

[Tim in Fort Worth]

Tim it sounds like you are trying way to hard to get your money's worth out of this thing.

Before I put that much effort into an exercise in futility...
Take helicopter flight lessons with the intention of returning it to Lowes...
Through their roof!:eek:

Nah...I hate to lose, and I'm just trying to have some fun along the way. Truth be told, Aside from replacing 3 or 4 thermocouples I have no real complaints with this water heater. Granted, I've abandoned Whirlpool products entirely but my gas bill isn't abnormally high, the unit doesn't leak, isn't loud and I always have plenty of hot water with a 40 gallon tank. Had Whirlpool handled this properly from the beginning I would be a happy customer. Along the way I've learned a lot about an appliance I never really thought about before. And I can now change out the burner assembly and/or thermocouple in short order and probably with my eyes closed. I think I'm down to about 30 minutes for the job. Plus, it's kind of fun causing some well deserved trouble for Whirlpool regarding this water heater. Rather than face up to a known problem they circled the wagons and pointed their guns at the customer. Too bad they only had to send out the conversion kit to the people who joined the class action suit. I didn't, and got several thermocouples and a control valve sent to me for free. They tried to get me to pay for shipping or send them my Lowes receipts to get my money refunded, but I held fast and got what I wanted without joining the class. I call that a victory. Kudos to HeyRube for the pilot jet opening. Does anyone know if Whirlpool has since been informed of the problem, and if they have a permanent fix for all new models being sold? If that's the case, some engineer and a few quality control people should be flipping burgers now...but not my burgers!

[nhmaster]

The last trade show I attended had the whirlpool guy there and he wouldn't even discuss the issue. Had crowds of irate plumers around him all day and never gave in.

It's an engineering design flaw that whirlpool is all to aware of. In typical fashion they will do the minimum to exaserbate the issue, re-desigh the problem and hope it all goes away in a few years. The law of odds is in their favor.

[dcarr4321@hotmail.com]

I also started having trouble with my 9 month old water heater. Called Lowe’s to ask about the warranty before I removed the heater. It was a Saturday so they were no doubt very busy at the store where I purchased it. After going through the automated message menu, it rings for a long time then transfers the phone back to the automated message. I am trapped in an automated phone system Twilight-Zone. Two times some one picks up the phone then hangs it up to get rid of me. OK that means there is intelligent life on the other end of the phone, I think? Keep trying. At some point, some one actually talks to me then transfers me to the plumbing department and the automated answering machine picks up and the cycle starts over again. I finally talk to some one in plumbing about the water heater. He tells me about an enhancement kit I need to get from Whirlpool and gives me the Whirlpool number. It is Saturday and no one at Whirlpool is manning the Water Heater Crisis Hot Line. Dang-It! One more day of fighting the self extinguishing pilot light. That thing gets extinguished more often than the Chinese Olympic Torch being carried through a Tibetan Monk Village. I call back on Monday and get trapped in a Whirlpool automated phone system Twilight-Zone. Never talking to a Whirlpool human, I resorted to ordering a kit from Whirlpool’s web site and pay $5 for postage. My teenage daughter needs hot water for her 90 minute shower now not later. I try to find a thermocouple at the store but they do not stock them. The Store Sales Guy tells me I can only get the part directly from Whirlpool. Dink, dink, dink – dink ---- back into the Twilight-Zone. I also file a consumer complaint with the Better Business Bureau for Lowe’s selling products they knew were defective and lack of support in correcting the problem. I have a phone message from Lowe’s on my work phone. They want to talk to me. I call back the number they left. Got an automated phone that eventually lead me to the person who called phone message. We are now in the phone tag Twilight-Zone. Dink, dink, dink, dink .........

[dcarr4321@hotmail.com]

I have a phone message from Lowe’s on my work phone. They want to talk to me. I call back the number they left. Got an automated phone that eventually lead me to the person who called phone message. We are now in the phone tag Twilight-Zone. Dink, dink, dink, dink .........



Talked to the "Corporate Executive Complaint" office person. She said they will call my local Lowe's store and get a resolution on this. The store manager calls me and we agree to an exchange or refund. I return the old unit, get a refund and go down the street to Home Depot. I purchased a 50 gallon, 12 year warranty GE unit. Even the cold setting on the new unit is hotter than the hottest setting on the Whirlpool. The water flow is higher too. The Whirlpool has more problems than just the thermocouple.

I am happy now.:)

[fm00]

Read ever post on this forum, enough to give me nightmares all night last night. This is what I did to get my heater going. I, like so many others thought it was the TC, ended up NOT the problem. After installing a new one with the right hand threads and it NOT screwing into the bottom of the stat., I had to give up till today with no HOT water, that was OK, cause me and my lady took a shower yesterday. I called India first thing this morning and decided to STAY CALM and talk slow. I think the guy appreciated that cause it went fairy good. The guy asked me a few questions and I said yes to all, he said he's send a new STAT, burner kit, you know the whole shooting match, only it was going to cost me $10 for 5-7 days, I said OK. I then proceeded to clean up the old TC and put it back in. I went ahead and made the pilot jet a wee bit, WEE BIT larger with a needle. The bottom of the burner separated from the moisture, so I fixed that with JB weld, that worked. Anyway, put it all back together and the b i t c * pilot lit, but would STAY LIT, I was like what the H-E double hockey sticks. Held the button down for 5 min. with a clamp, cause my thumb had about enough of the holding of the red button, STILL DIDN'T work. Took burner ass. out, un hooked the 3 things from the stat. Turned it around OUTSIDE of the heater, hooked back the 3 things, and the freaking pilot stayed lit, PUT IT ALL BACK, didn't work. Finally figured out there was a problem with where the TC touched up inside the stat where you tighten up the left handed nut (piece of wonder). Finally took it off and on and it finally made contact like it wanted to and stayed lit, FINALLY!!! Mean while I decided to remove the site glass so it could get air, along with the pieces that hold the striker wire and the TC wire, so it could get more air, took the gasket off behind the burner ass. cleaned the screen inside bottom, the thing lit and ran like a charm. I put that little cover over the front bottom and that was that. Told my girl who was very concerned that I didn't get it fixed and we would have to wait 5-7 days to take a shower, should of seen the look on her face. Then I said no, I got it going, running OK. I'm sure I'll be fine to all the new parts come in. It's in my attic with nothing around it, don't have to worry about anything catching fire. I'm going to leave it alone till it fails, then put all the new parts on, I had enough of that jerky for 2 days. So this is my story, not as bad as most, but hopefully my post can't help someone else out, I know reading all of them gave me a plan to fix my heater, which really helped. Thanks guys for all your posts, and I hope mine can help you! :D:cool:

[Redwood]

Oh boy!
The ripped off customers of American Water Heater/Whirlpood are now resorting to JB Weld to modify these burners...:eek:

Call a plumber you could have a Bradford White installed right away and have hot water all the time.

[whirlpoolhater]

Still kicking myself for getting online after purchase instead of beforehand. Its not like it is hard to find the warnings. But, when you heater craps out, you figure why shop? a water heater is as sophisticated as a pot of water with a thermostat...one's got to be good as another...installation is not rocket science, gas in, water in/out, put the flue back....How hard can it be?...DOH. That was March '08 this is August'08

here's the good news. Thanks to the google and another forumn like this one I found out Whirlpoo has a new secret url "flamelocksupport . c o m" ( I inserted the spaces in case this forumn frowns on hotlinks). Funny though...You won't find any references to that page on the whirlpoo customer service pages. I registered my heater which is a model UGij5040t3nv on that page (even though it indicates it is there for FG model heaters) The next day my wife got a call from whirlpool and was given a local plumber to call.

The next day the plumber shows up (at the end of the 4 hour window, I am lucky enough to have a wife that works out of the house). He quickly swaps out the gas valve and thermocouple (no charge btw). Heater works fine...for 2 hours...or one 50 gallon pot o'water. Called again, he came again the next day swapped out gas valve again. This time it made it almost 24 hours before flaming out. Called again. He came again. This time he checked a few more things like gas pressure its all good. He tore apart the entire burner assembly The one thing he found was related to the gas line to the pilot light. It has a compression fitting at each end of the (1/4 inch?) pilot feed line. Apparently, the compression fitting comes with an attached comppression ring (called an "olive", thank you wikipedia) and the olive breaks loose on tightening. At the burner end, the olive was still attached to the compresion nut (and thusly not really acting like a compression fitting. There had been no leaks evident to me or him so I don't have any idea if that was relevant to failure #3 or not. Regardless, he had commited to swapping out the entire burner assembly and ANOTHER gas valve. That was about an hour ago.

Thankfully my online research time has prepared me to be comfortable with disappoinment and so far I am not out of pocket.

Here's the next steps and the bad news. The plumber tells me that if the 3rd time is not the charm he will condemn the heater at which time I am free to buy another WHIRLPOOL (& I must front the money!), place it in my garage next to the condemned one whereupon he will install the new Whirlpool (he must install it btw) he will then give me a voucher to get reimbursed by Whirlpoo.

So...Whirlpoo has a policy that says once you have expended much time and effort and proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that they have manufactured a defective product, they will ALLOW you to buy another one and begin the cycle again!

If the heater fails again I plan to raise holy heck with the Lowe's manager and see how that goes. I am not planning on taking another lap around the Whirlpoo. (insert your best George Bush/Roger Daltry confused quote here)

[Drbe]

My hot water heater went out on March 3. Ran down to Lowes and had a new one installed in less than 1 hour. Worked fine until today, so got 6 solid months out of mine ... outstanding! Now the pilot won't light..... Honestly Jay Leno could of asked me on the street and I could not have remembered the brand name. I mean, hot water heaters have always been a no brainer .... until now!

From previous experiance with a defective wax switch on a Matag Neptune washer, I went straight to Google to check for known problems.

Wow 5 years, a class action suit, and Whirlpool still has not fixed the problem with their water heaters. Who the hell runs these appliance corperation these days. (Accountants, who else.)

Thanks WPH for the flamelocksupport website, I just left an email for them to call me and I ordered the BFG Enhancement Kit. I went for the next day air shipping, cost was $15. I will report back on my experiance.

[master plumber mark]

Its not going to help....

like me and many others have mentioned before the whole design is flawed....

then they claimed to have fixed that problem but

they never realy fixed the original problem when they upgraded the unit to the thermal fuse style...


I changed out a 50 gallon one only two years old on Tuesday.

I have finally come to the point that I simply look at all this as easy work for me to change out a few every month...

because they dont seem to have the brains to
actually fix the problems..


the company must be run by the three stooges... http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryiii/

[Drbe]

Ok its the next morning and I recieved a call at 8:30 AM from a gentleman in India. Progress. First thing first was to register my hot water heater. Model number, UG2F4040T3NV. You said Gee, 2, F, no no no, I said the letter U and the letter G. You get the process, and don't say O, Ohh, it is zero ... and the letter O like Oscar.

I slowed everything down and 5 minutes later I had my hot water heater registered. I mentioned wanting the "Enhancement Kit installed". He said I would have to talk to Tech Support (I.E. and American), I will transfer you and give them this reference number. Cool!

After about a short 5 minute hold I was actually speaking to a real live American. I gave her the reference number and we repeated the whole process over again. This obviously is not Tech Support but another layer of the Matrix. (No doubt another 3rd party company that gets paid for taking down information). Finally she asks me what the problem is ... THE PILOT LIGHT WILL NOT STAY LIT. "OK I will get your over to Tech Support to help you". No I simply want you to install the Enhancement Kit! "The enhancement kit is only for the FG model ... not the UG." I explain its the same problem, the only thing Whirlpool (American Water Heaters) did was change the model number from FG to UG to get out of the Class Action Suit. I WANT THE @#%* ENHANCEMENT KIT INSTALLED!!! "Ok SIR, I will transfer you over our 3rd party 1-800 repair hotline and you can explain it to them." "Here is your repair order number" Time to calm down, were in the cleavage now.

After a very short hold time I am finally speaking with someone who can fix my problem. I once again explain the problem and she says she will get someone out to take a look at it. Once again I explain I don't want someone to take a look at it, I want a qualified technician to install the Enhancement Kit. She also says its only for the FG models. I explain the only thing "they" changed was the letter. She says she will talk to the technican in my area ... please hold. A long hold time ensues (she does chime in very 2 minutes to make sure I am still holding ... very professional). After about 10 minutes she says the Technician in my area knows about the problem, has the Enhancement Kit on hand and will install the Kit sometime today. What is your contact phone number and address. To be continued:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Ok its 2 pm and my hot water is working. My ordeal started yesterday and it was resolved today in less than 24 hours. Total cost............. FREE!!

If your Whirlpool water heater won't light ... follow my example and get your's fixed for free!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Techncian who showed up says he was factory trained on the problem with the Whirlpool water heaters. He said the problem with the FG models was the left hand thread thermocouple was not properly impedance matched to the Gas Control Valve. And yes the previous fix of adding the enhancement kit to the FG models was a failure, they need to be changed as a matched pair. (He said the newest BFG models are finally working properly). However my UG heater is an interim model and while it has the new style thermocouple the Gas Control Valve was still the older style that is still not properly calibrated to the new style thermocouple. The only thing he changed was the Gas Control Valve and the pilot worked normally. He went on to say that mine is also a ULN or ultra low nox version that is required in Southern California. This is the reason the burner chamber gets so hot, to burn off the nitrous oxide to meet emmision standards. He says these standards will eventually spread to the entire USA and the manufactors have to tighten there tolerances for these systems to perform within the specifications day in day out. (Its a brave new world)!

For me only time will tell ... I will keep you all updated.


While I appreciate the advice to buy a Brandford White, it really is not much help for those of us stuck with the FG and UG Whirlpool models. Perhaps some of the Technicians on this website could check into the above claims and see if this is finally the legitimate fix for the Whirlpool heaters. Anyone know of failures with the BMG models???


And a shout out to Tim in Fort Worth ... thanks for starting this long winded thread ....... milk it to the end my man!