Big basement bathroom project

[fiasco]

I have a narrow basement. The bathroom currently sits square in the middle wasting space for what could be a very usable room. Meanwhile, I have wasted space at the other end of the basement where I want to put the bathroom instead (where the washer and dryer are).

I have included two rough diagrams (not to scale)

The existing 3" flloor/vent stack/sewer line are shown. A 2" vent will cross the ceiling for 10' and then turn and travel 8' to the existing 3" vent stack. It will be attached to the vent stack above the highest drain connection.

For the vent stacks servicing the new bathroom, do I need to put a third for the toilet or will the two branches serving the sink and tub be sufficient?

The existing sewer line is 2 1/2' below the foundation. The new run will drop 4" over the 16' run. It won't connect to the floor drain as it appears in the rough diagram. That drain is actually offset from the sewer line.

My big concern is the 90 deg in the sewer for the new bathroom. Is this acceptable? Is there a better solution to turn that corner?

http://scores.warbirdsiii.com/drawing1.jpg
http://scores.warbirdsiii.com/drawing2.jpg

[Cass]

As far as the 90 goes bust up more of the floor and use 2 - 45s with at least 2' of pipe between them. When you say "The existing sewer line is 2 1/2' below the foundation." do you mean the floor or the footer can you be more specific?

[hj]

A plumber would simplify the layout by using a long radius elbow at the turn and also below the toilet connection, then he would use a 3x2 side inlet tee for the toilet and bathtub/shower with the 2" going to the P trap. Then the lavatory/sink would connect to a T in the toilet's 2" vent line and then the single vent would connect back to the 3" above all the other connections, which means it would be at least 42" above the floor in the first floor wall. You would also need a 3" cleanout in the pipe above the floor behind the toilet.

[Bob NH]

You will save about 4 ft of breaking concrete if you run the sewer line diagonally.

[fiasco]

Cass,

I was planning on using two 45's to soften that elbow. i wish I could go diagonaly but that would require moving the furnace. The sewer pipe is 2 1/2' below the top of the floor.

HJ,

I gather from your description that something like what is in the attached image will be ok?

[fiasco]

Or, would this be acceptable? This would be easiest because it' will be difficult to get the new 2" vent line coming out of the floor close to the wall. I'd be able to hide it more effectively behind the tub installation.

[Cass]

I hope you mean 2 1/2" from the bottom of the floor because most floors are 4" thick. Even still unless I'm not getting something right where you make your tie in the existing line will be higher than where the run ends. Am I not understanding you right? If I do get you right you will need an ejection pump and pit.

[fiasco]

The sewer drain is approximately 2 1/2' (feet) below the top of the floor where it exits the house and that is where I will be tieing in.

is the vent pipe diagram I last posted acceptable?

Lastly, when I repour the cement I don't want the slab settling. Can I drill pilot holes in my cut edges and insert some short rebar (spelling?) to support the new cement?

I'm still in demo mode right now. I have most of the trenches cut in the foundation and have broken up the cement and carted it away. I'll be posting pictures of my bathroom project as I progress. Home demo is always tough because I have to account for the WAF (wife acceptance factor)!

I do truly appreciate all of your advice!

[fiasco]

OK found an answer to my rebar question and pilot holes for rebar dowels. :D

[hj]

Or, would this be acceptable? This would be easiest because it' will be difficult to get the new 2" vent line coming out of the floor close to the wall. I'd be able to hide it more effectively behind the tub installation.

Its going to have to be "close to the wall" somewhere, why would it be difficult behind the toilet? That drawing makes the lavatory arm too long. I don't want to take the time to do a new drawing, but if I were doing it, the tee would be in the floor under the new wall behind the toilet, and the tub would go into the side of it with the toilet's closet bend into the 3" opening. Then the vent would go vertical with the tee for the lavatory at the proper height, then a 3" cleanout about 36" above the floor with a 2" bushing in the top of it. There are a few of "good" ways to install your layout, and hundreds of "bad" ways that look easier. Your job is to separate them and pick the best one for you.

[fiasco]

HJ,

Again, I really appreciate the input. I am still in demo mode, got to move the washer dryer, water softener and water heater so I can get to the existing sewer run.

I just installed Visio so I will post some actual plans instead of stick drawings probably later tonight.

[PEW]

Rebar dowels are probably a bit overkill for a basement floor. Compact the dirt well when back filling.

When we use rebar dowels in larger commercial applications, we epoxy one end in the existing slab and grease the other so it does not adhere.

Paul

[dubldare]

Here's how I'd do it.

[fiasco]

Here is the floorplan layout. I'll post plumbing diagrams later tonight.

http://scores.warbirdsiii.com/home/Drawing1.gif

[fiasco]

Is there a specific "schedule" PVC pipe that must be used for DWV?

[fiasco]

I have all my trenches cut and dug up the sewer line I'm going to join into. Fortune smiles on me as the existing sewer line is 45 deg to my new run so a wye is gonna fit in there just right :D

I'm getting ready to dry fit all my plumbing. I'll take some photos shortly for your approval/dissapproval.

Can I use a low heel elbow under the toilet and use the 2" joint off of it for my vent? Also, can I use a 2" vent up from the floor from the toilet or does it have to be 3"?

If I can't use a low heel 90 under the toilet can I throw a second wye (see pix below) facing the same direction as the pictured one (cement not cut to go the other way) to lead to the wall wet vent stack/sink drain? If I should use a wye, is there a code specifiied minimum distance it must be from the toilet elbow?

I do not have room to throw a T on top of the toilet elbow for a vent.

Thanks guys!

[fiasco]

sewer line (flows right to left)
http://scores.warbirdsiii.com/home/sewer.jpg

45 deg cut to transition a turn
http://scores.warbirdsiii.com/home/45cut.jpg

overall plumbing, the cleanout will be accessed through a panel on the backside of the wall.
http://scores.warbirdsiii.com/home/plumb.jpg

[fiasco]

Toilet hookup (is a low heel 45 ok like this?)
http://scores.warbirdsiii.com/home/toilet.jpg

bath hookup
http://scores.warbirdsiii.com/home/bath.jpg

sink
http://scores.warbirdsiii.com/home/sink.jpg

[hj]

You are confused. You are using "T"s where you should have combination Y-1/8 bends and vice versa. You cannot use a tee, (and a heel inlet elbow is really a tee), for the tub or toilet or vent for the sink. You can use a tee for the connection to the vertical pipe. That sewer line, if it is the one you were referring to appears to be a lot less than 2 1/2', (30"), below the concrete.

http://www.terrylove.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=6020&stc=1&d=1230323207
This fitting vents off the top.

[fiasco]

That line is 13" below the top of the floor. I guestimated the depth of the sewer line exiting the house based on the depth of the P trap on the floor drain, so at the toilet/bathroom area I only have 5" of space to work w/ between the top of the horz pipes and the bottom of the 4" concrete. (accounting for the needed 4" drop over the run of the pipe to the sewer)

With the close fixtures (tub drain is about 30" from toilet, sink drain is about 34" in from toilet) do I need a seperate vent for each fixture or is that overkill. Could I use an additional wye in the sewer run before the toilet and run that up the wall for the vent?

I'm anal about getting this right so I appreaciate your help HJ.

[fiasco]

here is a pic of what I mean, not to scale of course. The total length of the run for the tub to the sewer line wye is less then 60"

Do those wye's have to be some mimimun distance down the line from the toilet?

[fiasco]

Or, if the one above doesn't pass muster

[fiasco]

Worlds slowest remodeller.. I work in spurts.

Spending alot of money to go out to Arizona and watch the Cardinals kick but this year so $$$ has been limited.

I decided to skp a tub and put in a two head shower using kerdi and ceramic. I laid the floor yesterday and first row of the shower. Will finish tiling the shower tomorrow.

[fiasco]

First row set and level. Will lay the rest (except the floor and bottom row) tomorrow.

Tile is American Olean Villano series.

Floor dark chocolate (vl04)
Bottom 6 rows chocolate (VL03)
Upper diagonal pattern macadamia (VL01) W/ sporadic placement of 3-5 chocolate tile per wall.
Tile surrounded by 3" chocolate bullnose (VL03)

Floor is heated by "Warm Tiles" cable heat placed in a 1/4" mortarbed under the normal tile floor installation.

Making my own top for the vanity w/ VLO1 macademia

Now have to get a scratch together to buy the cabinetry.

[geniescience]

looks good. A big shower is a good thing to have. :D

may i ask,
-what did you put the heat cables down onto? Directly onto the basement slab?
-is that a floor drain i see outside the shower?
-how are your Kerdi seams joined?
-what did you build the curb with?

david :)

[jadnashua]

It looks like he just overlapped the kerdi rather than using the kerdi-band. Either is acceptable.

[fiasco]

There was definately not enough kerdi band to do the central seam in the shower. Kerdi band and corners were used in the corners.

The heated floor wire is laid in a solid mortar bed just over 1/4" thick. Then the tile was laid over the top of additional mortar applied notched trowel. I used the "alternate" wiring pattern for use on cement boards. (2 close space 2 close space 2 close space ect)

Floor is grouted and the bottom tile pattern is in. Waiting on my 2 x 2 tiles for the floor and trim line between the color/tile patterns to continue. (saturday i hope)

[fiasco]

shower tile

[fiasco]

It's been awhile.

Heres where it's at.

The grout is not white, that's a product of the flash. The grout is keracolor biscuit and is just slightly lighter shade then the macademia tiles in the upper half of the shower.

The counter over the washer dryer is the leftover chocolate tile w/ oak trim.

The tiolet is a kohler in "Mexican Sand" color.

There will be a 36" four drawer oak vanity and a drop in sink the same color as the toilet. The vanity top will be the same construction as the counter over the washer/dryer except I will use the left over macadamia.

There will be two double door 27"w x 30"h cabinets and a 30"h x 6"w rounded end display shelf over the top of the washer/dryer

Its all done except for the cabinetry.

I'm pretty eager to tackle woodmaking. I have been gradually building my tools up to tackle the cabinets. I just need a jointer now

I m getting ready to purchase some rough cut lumber (save some $) and try my hand at bathroom cabinets.

I'm real happy with how it has turned out and the heated floor under your feet is awesome.

[fiasco]

another picture

[fiasco]

A lonely toilet looking for a 36" oak vanity to keep it company.

[fiasco]

Two 27"w x 30"h cabinets and end display shelf over the top of the washer/dryer.

[fiasco]

Nice roomy closet is a boost to our meager storage space and keeps the fuse panel and water main out of site.

[asuwish]

That's a beautiful bathroom. Nice colour choices. Congrats.

Don't you love your warm tile floor?

I like the ceiling fixture by the washer/dryer. What's the brand name and where did you purchase it?

[fiasco]

Not sure of the brand but I got it at Lowes. It is open through to the flood bulb. There is a ring of metal about 1 1/2" below the ceiling w/ a ribbon of "marbled" plastic difusing the light between the ring and the ceiling.

[fiasco]

and yes love that warm floor. The rest of the basement is getting the carpet taken out and heated ceramic put in.

[Bigbobdallas]

Showed my wifey tonight she loves all the bath Can I ask you the exact size. Can you email me this also in case I loose this info if you have the time, Thanks cant wait to see the final pics be sure and let us all see them.
Bigbobdallas@yahoo.com

[fiasco]

The shower is 5' x 32" not including the threshold.

[fiasco]

Worlds slowest remodeller.. I work in spurts.

Spending alot of money to go out to Arizona and watch the Cardinals kick but this year so $$$ has been limited.

I decided to skp a tub and put in a two head shower using kerdi and ceramic. I laid the floor yesterday and first row of the shower. Will finish tiling the shower tomorrow.

I'd like to point out the folly of the second paragraph.... Money well spent.... grrrr.

[fiasco]

When sealing the grout do you just sponge the stuff on? Do I need to keep it off the tiles or clean it off shortly thereafter or is it ok to let it dry on the tiles?

started on the wall cabinets for over the washer and dryer.

[jadnashua]

The sealer only needs to get on the grout...most tile won't absorb any. It won't hurt it, but follow the instructions on the bottle! It will tell you to NOT let it dry on the tile. If you do, it will leave streaks that will be very hard to get off. They can usually be removed by rewetting with sealer, the stuff will disolve itself, then buff.

[fiasco]

99% done. Here are the most recent photos

I made the cabinets with the MLCS 5 piece cabinet router set.

[fiasco]

left over ceramic from the shower was used for the counter / vanity tops.

[fiasco]

The dovetail joint drawers were done with the MLCS pins & tails dovetail jig (a pain to use). The Mexican sand Kohler sink w/ Delta venetian bronze faucet.

I ran out of Keracolor-s sanded biscuit caulk to finish the joint between the wall and countertop.... grrrrr.

[fiasco]

last pic, the finished shower

[JazzHarper]

fiasco,
I realize that this is a really old thread but, if you're still out there, could you tell me what you used as 2x2 tile in the pan to match the color of the AO Vallano floor/wall tiles?

--
David in Sugar Land