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ballvalve
08-08-2011, 12:15 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/08/08/fresh-unrest-in-london-after-violent-night-rioting/

Demise of government [over] entitlement programs cause people of color to burn down their neighborhoods.

England has so spoiled its youth, and their only skill being drinking and texting, It seems you may expect the country to look like one big Compton riot, as after the imbecile Rodney King was properly beaten by the police.

Any cut fingers from breaking store windows will be treated by the Brits for free at a cost of millions.

The Chinese are bent over laughing at how stupid we all are to divest ourselves of jobs for our youth and give it to them to build shiny toy machinery and debri to fill our dollar stores.

Terry
08-08-2011, 02:06 PM
Cookie sent me this story too.
I do recall during the Viet Nam war, also seeing daily coverage from England over their religious war. The Catholics and the Protestants were in heated battle.

Maybe that's why Ian moved here. We do seem to get along better with all of our differences.

Tom Sawyer
08-08-2011, 02:50 PM
I was wondering who would be the first to start poking Ian with this one :)

Ian Gills
08-08-2011, 05:05 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14449675

This is dreadful and unacceptable: an unimaginable example of the violence that can be triggered, and spread, when police shoot a person of minority descent in England.

In America, people simply would not care. Police shoot people dead all the time here.

Americans have become that numb.

But for how much longer?

Your disadvantaged population is larger and more disillussioned than any anywhere. And to make matters worse, America's poor have guns.

So take it as a lesson. Raise taxes on the rich. And provide the poor with the essential services they are entitled to. Ban guns. And focus on jobs.

Or else.

England is bit like America though:

0105: BBC staff member reports hundreds of youths ransacking a Panasonic store in West Ealing - no sign of police.

Tom Sawyer
08-09-2011, 06:44 AM
Pay the ransom. That's really what welfare and hand out programs are. A ransom that we pay to keep a select few from tearing our cities apart. When the welfare state begins to break down, those that depend on government money to live are the first effected. Since there are no jobs or other legal ways for these people to get the money they need to live, they will begin to riot, rob, mug, pillage and destroy whatever gets in their way. The wave of rioting will grow and begin to suck in more and more people. It will cost the government billions to stop it. More police, more jails etc. It is actually cheaper to pay the ransom than deal with the problem. The thing is that eventually, if enough welfare folks are on the dole, there are not enough working people to pay the bill. Is this what is happening in England now? or is this whole thing an isolated abboration caused by social unrest?

ballvalve
08-09-2011, 10:56 AM
Most of the youth of our rich nations are becoming android abberations because of electronic devices glued to their ears 90% of the day.

And the lack, especially in the 'other' races of not having a father, or a father that cannot change a tire. Or spends most time in jail.

Every generation said the youth are turning to garbage, but now we have a new experiment with the innundation in media.

I say every kid that steps out of high school gets two years of community service in camps without phones and tv's. And lots of theose sadistic unemployed fathers as bunkhouse watchmen with shot filled rubber hoses.

Uniforms in ALL schools, hard work, machine training, trail building makes men instead of bored vandals. The BEST workers I ever had were vets. They learned discipline, and that makes life so much easier.

What we do about all those sluts in g-strings at age 15 is another question. [Sure wish they had them when I was 15.]

I say legalize prostitution for those over 18, and our daughters won't be found nearly as often buried in the forest. Rember when you walked home from school when you were 12 years old? Where did that world go and why?

And Ian, our cops shoot a lot of people, not quite enough, but because they DO have guns and 99.9% of the time that bullet was their best and well deserved medicine.

Tom Sawyer
08-09-2011, 11:15 AM
There's currently three of them at large somewhere on the east coast that are in serious need of termination.

ballvalve
08-09-2011, 11:35 AM
Lets get Bronson back....

Ian Gills
08-09-2011, 05:01 PM
Your tolerance of guns is why those three kids are wreaking the same havoc as all the teens in England.

Ban guns.

Because most of you are too stoopid to know how to shoot.

master plumber mark
08-10-2011, 07:36 PM
I have been watching the violence in England, and it amazes me
what a bunch of wimp pussies the police are....

They are literally watching all these teenagers run up and
down the streets setting buildings ablaze
and basically standing there wondering how to control them..
are they totally imputent??.

I KNOW that you are not gonna like this IAAN but the answer is pretty simple...

spray them down with a couple dozen volleys of rubber bullets....
I know that they dont want to kill anyone involved, but I dont think that
their is any law in England against giving the crowd a
whole bunch of red hot welts on their back sides to impress upon them the idea
that crime and arson is gonna sting like hell...... ...

Lots of Tear gas would also be a nice touch... dont you think>>

or is that too uncivilized for merry old England??



also, you are totally full of crap when it comes to banning the guns,
by the very example of what a messit is over there right now.....

If the shop owners in England were ARMED,
I am pretty sure that most of the damage
would have been adverted.....or the level of RISK to
the common theives would make them think twice before
looting and setting ablaze homes....

I guarantee that if someone tried to burn
down my home and business ...my 12 guage shotgun
and my smith and wesson 9mm will
come out and I would lay down what is called in America
"supressive fire".....

talley ho....Ian...

Tom Sawyer
08-10-2011, 08:58 PM
I made a resolution to buy another gun every time Ian says we need to get rid of them. Just picked up a Ruger Vaquero in .45 Got 500 rounds to go with it.

ballvalve
08-10-2011, 09:22 PM
Your tolerance of guns is why those three kids are wreaking the same havoc as all the teens in England.

Ban guns.

Because most of you are too stoopid to know how to shoot.

By the by, I think the plumber meant impotent, no matter how impudent they are.

But about shooting, we who shoot do not do it as a whim. We are raised with guns, and know the rules, and we know what and when to shoot. My 5 year old has already a very surprising and healthy respect and proper fear of guns.

But he and his German Shepherd are able to shoot together and understand the dangers, and the dog does not flinch at a shot from a pistol or shotgun. And the dog would die protecting him from lion, bear or pit bull - better than any gun.

Last week, from my balcony which looks out over a million acres of wild lands, we had to shoot a rabid feral cat, which had been circled by his protector, Maciek, the German Shepherd. My kid loves cats, but even at his tender age, he said this animal is not well and must be eliminated.

The Grizzly bears that once ate salmon in my stream are dead for over 100 years, the salmon blocked by a hundred dams. The coyotes are trapped out and the fox is in a decline. My salamanders that once mated in huge balls of hundreds in my stream are dead from detergents from morons upstream that dump their wash water on the ground.

And the human equivalent of rabid feral cats are taking over England and the large cities of America. We are in a steep declne and can only hope for a bizarre flu to lighten up the earth.

Rubber bullets will not suffice to change our demise.

Cookie
08-11-2011, 07:43 AM
Ian, when the govn provides for everything, and kids do not have to be responsible for the futures they want and learn to provide for it without the aid of the govn this is what you got going and why. Self respect is learned by doing not getting it given to you.


Britain's rioters: young, poor and disillusioned
By MEERA SELVA - Associated Press,PAISLEY DODDS - Associated Press | AP 1 hr 52 mins ago..



LONDON (AP) Each of the young rioters who clogged Britain's courthouses painted a bleak picture of a lost generation: a 15-year-old Ukrainian whose mother died, a 17-year-old who followed his cousin into the mayhem, an 11-year-old arrested for stealing a garbage can.

Britain is bitterly divided on the reasons behind the riots. Some blame the unrest on opportunistic criminality, while others say conflicting economic policies and punishing government spending cuts have deepened inequalities in the country's most deprived areas.

Many of the youths themselves struggle to find any plausible answer, but a widespread sense of alienation emerges from their tales.

"Nobody is doing nothing for us not the politicians, not the cops, no one," a 19-year-old who lives near Tottenham, the blighted London neighborhood where the riots started. He only gave his nickname, "Freddy," because he took part in the looting and was scared of facing prosecution; he was not among the youths in court.

Britain has one of the highest violent crime rates in the EU. Roughly 18 percent of youths between 16 and 24 are jobless and nearly half of all black youths are out of work.

As the government battles colossal government debt with harsh welfare cuts that promise to make the futures of these youths even bleaker, some experts say it's narrow-minded to believe the riots have only been a random outburst of violence unrelated to the current economic crisis.

"There's a fundamental disconnect with a particular section of young Britain and sections of the political establishment," said Matthew Goodwin, a politics professor at University of Nottingham.

"The argument that this doesn't have anything to do with expenditure cuts or economics doesn't stand up to the evidence. If that's true, then what we have here are hundreds of young, crazed kids simply acting irrationally. I don't think that's the case."

Nearly 1,200 people have been arrested since the riots erupted Saturday, mostly poor youths from a broad section of Britain's many races and ethnicities.

Courts have been running nearly 24 hours a day to hear all the cases since the rioting began. Most cases are heard in a blink of an eye and only give a snapshot of some of the youngsters' lives. Many of the defendants haven't had a chance to talk at length with their attorneys, and most can't be named because they are minors.

An 11-year-old boy from Romford, Essex, was among one of the youngest to appear in court on Wednesday. Wearing a blue Adidas tracksuit, the youngster spoke only to confirm his name, age and date of birth.

The boy pleaded guilty to burglary, after stealing a waste bin worth 50 pounds. A charge of violent disorder was dropped.

Attorneys for some of the defendants said their clients were good kids who have caring families but got caught up in the violence.

Daniel Cavaglieri, one of the lawyers for a 17-year-old who appeared at Highbury Magistrates Court, said the youth was studying mechanics and trying to finish school. He was accused of following his older cousin to loot a clothing shop, and charged with intent to steal.

"His mother is furious he was out and about at that time. She genuinely thought he was at a friend's house," Cavaglieri told the court. "He's going to be grounded."

Another defendant, a 15-year-old immigrant from Ukraine, pleaded not guilty to using or threatening unlawful violence. He already has a criminal record for theft, and police said he threw stones and other missiles in the thick of Tuesday's rioting in London's Hackney area.

Prosecutors said the boy is an only child who lives with his widowed father. He came to Britain from Germany three years ago after leaving Ukraine when his mother died.

It's unclear what role racial tensions have played in the riots, if any.

In Tottenham, most residents are white but blacks from Africa or the Caribbean account for around a quarter of the ethnic mix. It's also home to Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi and Asian immigrants. The rage has appeared to cut across ethnic lines, with poverty as the main common denominator.

But there's a history of racial tension in many of these neighborhoods, and the riots themselves were triggered by the fatal police shooting of a black man in Tottenham.

In 1985, the neighborhood was home to the Broadwater Farm riot, an event seared in the memories of many of the rioters' parents. Back then, violence exploded area when a black woman died from a stroke during a police search. The area remains a hotbed of ethnic tension: In the past year, police have logged some 100 racist or religion based hate crimes.

Other social problems afflict the places where rioting erupted: high teen pregnancy rates, gun crime and drug trafficking.

Under the Labour-led government of Prime Minister Tony Blair, authorities tried to penalize badly behaved youth with Anti-Social Behavior Orders, or ASBOs. The orders have since become badges of honor for many of Britain's youth.

In 2008, there were more than 1 million reported cases of violent crimes in England and Wales alone. By comparison, there were 331,778 reported incidents in France and some 210,885 incidents in Germany. Violent crime carried out by children and teenagers is also among the highest in Europe.

"There's income inequality, extremely high levels of unemployment between 16 and 24-year-olds and huge parts of this population not in education or training," Goodwin said. "There's a general malaise amongst a particular generation."

Britain's Conservative-led government is implementing painful austerity measures in an attempt to get the country's finances in order. Prime Minister David Cameron has pledged 80 billion pounds ($129 billion) of spending cuts and 30 billion pounds in extra taxes to trim Britain's huge deficit, swollen after the government spent billions bailing out foundering banks.

The plans to cut services from welfare to education sparked violent protests last year, as students took to the streets to demonstrate against the tripling of university fees. The government is also cutting civil service jobs and benefits, raising the state pension age from 65 to 66, hiking the amount public sector employees contribute to pensions and reducing their retirement payouts.

The austerity measures will also slash housing benefit payments used to subsidize rents for the low-paid, threatening to price tens of thousands of poor families out of their homes and force them toward the fringes of the country's capital.

Economists at the Centre for Economic Policy Research say such cuts promise more unrest. Most of Britain's deepest cuts haven't even come yet.

"There's usually something that sparks these things off," said Hans-Joachim Voth, a research fellow at the center. "The question is why is it that in 90 percent of these cases that nothing happens? Why is it that some places just end up like a tinder box?"

Ian Gills
08-11-2011, 09:55 AM
Cookie is not allowed in Ian's corner.

Canadians are the only ones that can be trusted with owning guns (and making angle stops).

It's a credit to our police force (and plumbers) that the English rarely have to use them.

I really hope this sort of lawlessness does not come to America.

We need to raise the benefits for the poor here before it does.

Kids learn responsibility through opportunity.

That means going to a good school regardless of income. And healthcare for all to boot.

Your poor are more in number and more disillusioned that ours. The biggest difference is that their criminality is mostly amongst themselves. I don't know may people in America brave enough to walk through a poor neighborhood. Same can't be said of England. Our poor are better integrated into society than in the US - which is really saying something.

You'd best hope it stays that way.

You're sitting ducks compared to the English. We had groups of people out willing to protect one another. I doubt communities in America would do the same. People get beat up on the metro here and others just go about their business.

Disgusting!

Ban guns. Learn to use fists instead. It's that simple.

Tom Sawyer
08-11-2011, 10:03 AM
You gravely under estimate us

BobL43
08-11-2011, 10:04 AM
Welcome back Cookie!

BobL43
08-11-2011, 10:05 AM
You gravely under estimate us

Absa tootly, he does!

Ian Gills
08-11-2011, 10:39 AM
I am not sure Americans would rise to the challenge of helping someone outside their family.

Else they'd quit complaining about taxes and spending to help those less fortunate than themselves.

ballvalve
08-11-2011, 11:48 AM
The churches help people outside their family. With the money they did not give to the imbeciles in congress to send to ASSghanistahn.

America and Canada are like Czecho/Slovakia, divided, but exactly the same with nuances.

Kids usually calm down after age 19 or 20, especially if they didnt soak up a ton of drugs in "college". And a kid with a real family doesnt loot shops under any conditions. So all those lost kids need to go into slave-labor camps, and start cleaning the streets and canals of rubbish.

And send in a gaggle of sluts on friday night as their pay. And during the week the girls can work the neighborhoods dads, and tax them, and thank them for keeping the child murderers off the street. Weekly VD tests. Reduce the statuatory rape age to 15 - they start at about 11 now anyway.

No work ethic - no family - no skills - no society.

Ian Gills
08-11-2011, 11:54 AM
One thing I do like about this country is religous freedom.

I love not to have to go to church.

Churches are fine but they should pay taxes. And "church traffic" is a joke that something needs to be done about as it is a nuisance to others.

Work ethics do not come from families. They come from mentors and mostly from good schools.

America is already downgraded. Unless it fixes its schools it will be on a slipperly slope.

Welcome to second place.

BobL43
08-11-2011, 12:27 PM
I am not sure Americans would rise to the challenge of helping someone outside their family.

Else they'd quit complaining about taxes and spending to help those less fortunate than themselves.

that's an ignorant answer. You have absolutely no idea how much I have donated to the American Red Cross in the past 10 years, and that's only one. I donate lots to St. Judes for Children as well. I am just one of so many Americans who give to help others. A good deal of my donations to the Red Cross has gone to help others, such as in Indonesia and Japan, people who I do not know and probably never will but I did what I could to help in their time of need.

Ian Gills
08-11-2011, 12:45 PM
Why do Americans so willingly give to charity and not to taxes?

Is this another case of they know best how to spend their money?

Works fine until you start getting the needy that are left behind e.g. muslims in Somalia.

I prefer the judgement of the many (i.e. Government) over the individual and - sometimes - God e.g. Catholic hospitals and abortion/gay marriage when they threaten to remove their essential services which taxpayers should be providing anyway to ensure proper separation of church and state.

Tom Sawyer
08-11-2011, 04:11 PM
Then again the last time they under estimated us they sailed back home crying to the King

Ian Gills
08-11-2011, 05:33 PM
Many of those that fought for the Crown were...ahem...American.

No doubt you swiftly put an end to them.

Tom Sawyer
08-11-2011, 05:38 PM
They changed their ways when they realized the splendor of true freedom from unfair taxation. Something that unfortunately our current legislators seem to have forgotten.

Ian Gills
08-11-2011, 05:41 PM
Your current President is the man for the job.

I salute the President of the United States.

And I expect all Americans to do the same.

BobL43
08-11-2011, 05:52 PM
There are many of us Americans that donate to the poor people of Somalia; wouldn't it be wonderful though, if the very rich Muslim oil supplying countries feed and help their bretheren people of Islam?

ballvalve
08-11-2011, 06:39 PM
Work ethics do not come from families. They come from mentors and mostly from good schools


Mentors are the best and many come from inside the family. Schools rarely mentor. And are more rarely "good" - They kill time. Sports: the greatest dementor of our kids....

A mentor is a one on one guy with the kid on a bucket watching dad or uncle drill a 1" hole in a 2" thick piece of steel. Or welding up a ripper for a dozer. Every 6 year old should have his own welding helmet so he can watch. Better than any cartoon for him. And when he is 12, he will automatically be able to do that job without further instruction.

Unless he decides to be a pianist instead, which is fine, if not so well paying.


There are many of us Americans that donate to the poor people of Somalia; wouldn't it be wonderful though, if the very rich Muslim oil supplying countries feed and help their bretheren people of Islam?

All those Saudis with the big white bathrobes and a hookah in their gold dripping mouths, and twelve
concubines waiting naked in the next room can pay for OUR rice to feed their Somalian bretheren with 16 kids per family. Not on my nickle.

Tom Sawyer
08-11-2011, 06:58 PM
My current President was and is ill prepared for the job, nor does he have the testicular fortitude to make the hard decisions. Promissing what can not be delivered is the cowards way. I feel for whoever is the next to take the reins after this President and this Congress have finished destroying my country with their greed and corruption.

Cookie
08-11-2011, 07:19 PM
Ha ha, Ian little do you know, you only got Ian's Corner because I suggested it, ask Don. Ha ha...

so, say thank you Ian.

Cookie
08-11-2011, 07:22 PM
Welcome back Cookie!

Well, thank you Bob, but I am not back, just saw that article and it summed up things too well not to post.

Plus, I got bigger fish to fry at the moment.

Ian Gills
08-12-2011, 09:15 AM
Thank you Cookie.


My current President was and is ill prepared for the job, nor does he have the testicular fortitude to make the hard decisions. Promissing what can not be delivered is the cowards way. I feel for whoever is the next to take the reins after this President and this Congress have finished destroying my country with their greed and corruption.

That's a very disrespectful way to talk about the President of the United States of America.

I have more respect and I would hope others do too.

The guy in question, however, was doomed from Day 1. Bush left an unfixable mess. Hence his quiet exit.


Plus, I got bigger fish to fry at the moment.

Cookie must be over in Don and Bob's electronics part of the forum.

Tom Sawyer
08-12-2011, 10:25 AM
I don't see pointing his failures and short comings out as being disrespectful. The man is and had been a disaster from day one. We are 3 years into his corrupt administration, at what point does the mess stop being Bush's and Obama start taking responsibility for the trillions of dollars he has spent. He reminds me of a petulant child that whines and cries when he doesn't get his way. Thus far his way has put this country on the edge of bankruptcy.

ballvalve
08-12-2011, 11:38 AM
My current President was and is ill prepared for the job, nor does he have the testicular fortitude to make the hard decisions. Promissing what can not be delivered is the cowards way. I feel for whoever is the next to take the reins after this President and this Congress have finished destroying my country with their greed and corruption.

He fired more drone missiles than any pres, and killed Osama. He's got something dangling around down there.

Cookie
08-12-2011, 02:07 PM
No, Cookie isn't anywhere you would want to be. I am slaying the beast again. And, when I am done putting it in its place I will remember you...here in Ian's corner, and get out my mighty soothslayer sword. :)

now, you know I am only kidding...
I would never do my hair that red. lol.

Infact... I will be glad to have my hair. :)
any color.

Ian Gills
08-12-2011, 02:53 PM
OK, Cookie. Get well soon.

I'll be waiting here with a heavy dose of socialism.

Meanwhile I'll keep battling with your clones.

Cookie
08-12-2011, 07:30 PM
Their my buds. I'd rather have a heavy dose of chemicals than your socialism, lol. or even staple my head to the rug. Ban socialism!

Ian Gills
08-14-2011, 06:57 AM
There's nothing wrong with being a little bit social.

A little bit of your your wages going to help someone less fortunate than yourself through taxes is a good thing.

People aren't animals. We're a society. And we should help each other out through taxes.

The days of small Government are over.

wmills
08-14-2011, 02:52 PM
Wish you the best Cookie. Some members of my family are fighting a similar battle.

England has always wanted to imitate the freedoms of the USA but could not give up the comfort of having a mommy or daddy figure to blame (the crown). At least we have the option of replacing our figureheads every four years. And in the case of incompetence we shall gladly replace the figurehead who pretends to be in charge now.

master plumber mark
08-14-2011, 04:01 PM
Ian, you are so totally full of crap.....

Cookie has got more common sense than you have
and that is acutally kind of scarey thought......


If this was 400 years ago, they would have sent these rioters to
a penal colony in "Australia called Botany Bay.... they actually used
to have Debtors Prisons in England and usually when the cells got too full
they sent them on a boat ride down to teh southern hemisphere to be slaves....

the RICH in England could give a rats ass about the poor children that are rioting in the streets.
they are not going to cough up one red cent to pay more taxes to give this lost generation
an education or anything else for that matter....

its not in your DNA.... the people in england see everyone on a lower social status as them as Animals
and expect them to be swept away from their site....that is the reason they are burning everything down


. the problem is you have no debtors prisons anymore, no hell hole island to ship them off to
and the world wont allow you to sell them off as slaves either.....

in a bit of a pickle, arent they ??/ old boy


talley ho:o:o:o

Cookie
08-14-2011, 05:41 PM
Sorry to hear about your family members having to fight the same battle. I have some advice for what it is worth for them which is to try to keep a really positive attitude. I believe that a great attitude about it is really a large part of the fight, kind of like, you are what you eat? you are what you think. I know some people will say it because they don't know what else to say to someone like us, but, with me saying it, I really am serious about it much more than I could ever express. I have seen first hand dire consequences of those who think they won't make it, and those on the other hand, who are a stage 4, like me, who just live with it every day, and life just goes on and on. Sometimes, it rears its ugly head and it got to be whacked again, but, you whack it and you move on. I got things to do.

I swore I would give up counting the number of times I have relapsed with this but, it is like an addiction, lol, I can't! This will make #6. What is odd is the fact that I never (and thankfully) look sick. Only once, I did... once. My weight dropped to 88 lbs and I looked too skinny. But, otherwise, my friend in NZ swears I could win a Mrs. America contest. I really do advise people as crazy as this may sound, but, try to have a light heart about it, tell your family members, to fight this problem like hell for it is worth it, (I had been in remission for 5 years) and tell them not to let others get them down. I have met my share of morons in life. Once I accepted a date for dinner with a man I met through work, a broker, and during dinner he asked what I had been doing. Well, I am honest, I said, I just finished chemo. I laugh now, lol, at my stupidity. I don't date well, lol. Well, you would had thought I said, I was an alien from outer space. He told me that I should had told him, before I accepted the date that I had cancer. When I asked why, he said, well, I wouldn't had asked you out. Yeah, that hurt. But, I got up, took a twenty dollar bill out of my purse, laid it on the table, and said, what I thought of him, and warned him what happened to me, could easily happen to you...

Then, I thought when I paid for the cab home, wow! Am I stupid. Just like Mark said, no commonsense, I should had ordered a great desert, more wine, a better steak, and then... told him, when he drove me home, what a moron he was. So, with or without the illness I live with, I keep as best a positive attitude and a funny one as possible. Laughter if healing and being silly, is even better.

Once, only once, you need to walk in my shoes to appreciate just how grounded and smart, I am. I just don't need to flaunt it.

Ian has some good points. Once in a while. :) I haven't seen it lately, lol.

wmills
08-15-2011, 03:59 AM
My Sis in law is battling cervical C. for two years and has a great attitude, thought they had it in remission but it came back and is now laughing at her. But she is still strong and worries more about others than she does herself. Anyway I am proud to know you because you are strong and sensible.

And yes Ian does have an occasional good/valid point, just not often. And he is always good for a laugh.

BobL43
08-15-2011, 08:54 AM
Sorry to hear about your family members having to fight the same battle. I have some advice for what it is worth for them which is to try to keep a really positive attitude. I believe that a great attitude about it is really a large part of the fight, kind of like, you are what you eat? you are what you think. I know some people will say it because they don't know what else to say to someone like us, but, with me saying it, I really am serious about it much more than I could ever express. I have seen first hand dire consequences of those who think they won't make it, and those on the other hand, who are a stage 4, like me, who just live with it every day, and life just goes on and on. Sometimes, it rears its ugly head and it got to be whacked again, but, you whack it and you move on. I got things to do.

I swore I would give up counting the number of times I have relapsed with this but, it is like an addiction, lol, I can't! This will make #6. What is odd is the fact that I never (and thankfully) look sick. Only once, I did... once. My weight dropped to 88 lbs and I looked too skinny. But, otherwise, my friend in NZ swears I could win a Mrs. America contest. I really do advise people as crazy as this may sound, but, try to have a light heart about it, tell your family members, to fight this problem like hell for it is worth it, (I had been in remission for 5 years) and tell them not to let others get them down. I have met my share of morons in life. Once I accepted a date for dinner with a man I met through work, a broker, and during dinner he asked what I had been doing. Well, I am honest, I said, I just finished chemo. I laugh now, lol, at my stupidity. I don't date well, lol. Well, you would had thought I said, I was an alien from outer space. He told me that I should had told him, before I accepted the date that I had cancer. When I asked why, he said, well, I wouldn't had asked you out. Yeah, that hurt. But, I got up, took a twenty dollar bill out of my purse, laid it on the table, and said, what I thought of him, and warned him what happened to me, could easily happen to you...

Then, I thought when I paid for the cab home, wow! Am I stupid. Just like Mark said, no commonsense, I should had ordered a great desert, more wine, a better steak, and then... told him, when he drove me home, what a moron he was. So, with or without the illness I live with, I keep as best a positive attitude and a funny one as possible. Laughter if healing and being silly, is even better.

Once, only once, you need to walk in my shoes to appreciate just how grounded and smart, I am. I just don't need to flaunt it.

Ian has some good points. Once in a while. :) I haven't seen it lately, lol.


Cookie, get better soon and your story about that date is proof of how many a**holes there are in this world.

Cookie
08-15-2011, 09:59 AM
It is terrible when it relapses. It doesn't matter if it is the 1st relapse of the 6th, it is heart breaking. Tell Sis in law, she can do it. Tell her, you know a woman here, who has done it more times than she cares to count. I got 5 years out of the last round of treatments. This time, I will get 10. So will she. With a great mindset, you get great results. Don't forget it.

I owe how strong I am to my dad. He used to tell me how headstrong I was, yeah, just like him. So, finally! being stubborn counts! Having a one-track mind counts!
I am and always have been my own person. When I was 5, I was listening to my dad talking to someone about taxes, and I said, " excuse me, but, can't you find a loophole?" I started telling them, about where to find the loopholes within the tax laws; I was in first grade teaching the teacher how to read schematics.

I am smart.

Oh, their are more jerks than one can count. That date was about 5 years ago, but, I still haven't forgotten it, and I see him once in the while when he visits our office and I wait until, he walks past me, and then, I stick my tongue out and put my fingers in my ears wingling them, and everyone around me laughs. He spins around looking directly at me, and I am then, extremely angelic looking. Straight faced and all. He knows I am doing something but, he can't catch me. I am too fast. Too sleek and too sexy. Like a cheetah. He hates me and I don't know why, I love him... lol.

But, their is another broker who is fantastic. And, this will make Ian very happy because he is from England! What a nice guy. He has offered me a position in his office, lunch, dinner, but, sadly, he looks too much like my deceased husband so, I turn it all down. But, he is funny and sweet, and like I said, to my amazement from Ian's neck of the woods :)

So, their is hope for Ian. Hang in their Ian.

Ian Gills
08-16-2011, 06:54 PM
Well, I have to take a vacation too.

On my travels I went to Pennsylvania where the Amish live. It was fascinating to see their simple way of life. So primitive.

They drink their water from wells.

They are rarely on public sewer.

And those that have power, only have overhead lines feeding their homes.

It was like Europe centuries ago.

The drivers are courteous there though. Someone has taught Pennsylvanians to drive. The only car that cut me up the whole journey had New York plates. Many Americans can't drive. It might be nature, it might be nurture.


the problem is you have no debtors prisons anymore, no hell hole island to ship them off to
and the world wont allow you to sell them off as slaves either.....


The English value human life. If it had been the Americans they would have called in the army and marched those rioters to a football stadium, like during the Vietnam War demonstrations. America treats its people like animals.

And Americans are oh so willing to give to their community but oh so opposed to paying taxes.

Why?

Cookie
08-16-2011, 08:26 PM
You won't find better people than the Amish. Years ago, at a flea market in Frysburg, I became friendly with an Amish man who sold things from his wagon. He sold glass insulators which I happen to collect forever, and pies. The Shoefly pie was to die for and I asked how this was made. That started a friendship with his daughter Elizabeth and the family now going on for about 25 years at least. They are great people. I have stayed in the farm house with them, fed their chickens, and sat on the stool while they baked, and learned. I had visited the family lumber mill, which really was an honor since, I was a female and English. They are remarkable. I love them. I have a beautiful quilt which they made for me, out of my sons clothing from when they were little. I remember, how they asked me, what those shirts meant. I am referring to, clothing, like a batman shirt, a superman shirt, a power ranger shirt, the ninja turtle clothing, etc. It was a fun afternoon with the ladies. The quilting work was perfect. On them they sewed the boys names.

I have traveled alot during the years and sent them postcards from all the places I had been. They would write back letting me know, how the school season was going, the one room school with students from ages 5 to 12. Elizabeth is a teacher, has been for years.

When a fire took a neighboring family lives we collected money and set up a donation at the local bank. When mom, Bertha broke her arm, I was there, when sis got married I was there, I was there for them always, and widely accepted and still am. When, my husband past, they said prayers and sent things of love I can't describe. They were there for me. Unbelievable. In their meeting house, they prayed for me.

Some of my English friends, when he past, when I was diagnosed again back then with cancer, disappeared. I would see them dart around buildings! I would yell, " I can see you!" Most Christmas cards stopped a year after his death. But, not theirs.

They ask about my life. They always did. I had to always tell them about the English way. If I want to feel loved, I drive there, lol. I am given lots of hugs.

The Amish do not as a rule get vaccinated for any diseases. When I told them about my immunity problem, and how easily, I can get sick, they got their vaccines.

Four years after my husband past on, they tried to play matchmaker. I told them, that I would make a lousy Amish wife. They understood, :)

Emos just thought it was time I got happy again. God bless his soul.

Yes, they got a well. Infact, they got 2. Yes, they got a generator in the barn for milking. Plumbers wouldn't survive there, for they got outhouses.

It is fun to be with them. No one judges anyone. No sibling rivarly. They live a pretty much peaceful existence, not wanting to be bothered. And, if you are just lucky enough to be accepted into their world, it is a rare thing.

Here is one of Liz's recipes for your plumbing wives:

Greetings of love,

Wet Bottom Shoe Fly Pie
6 cups of pastry flour
1 cup of brown sugar
1teaspoon of salt
1teaspoon of soda "heaping"
1teaspoon of cream of tatar "heaping"
2 teaspoons of cinnamon
1cup of lard

Surup
4 cups brown sugar
2 cups king surup or dark kero
4 or more beaten eggs
4 cups hot water

Bake at 450F for 10 minutes. Then 400 for 10 Minutes. Reduce heat to 350 bake 25 to 30 minutes

My way to make the surup is as follows,
4 cups of brown sugar
2/3 cup molasses & 1 & 1/3 cup light kero
4 beaten eggs
4 cups of hot water

I put so about 1/4 cup more surup in 1 pie then crumbs. I use the 9 in med size pans to sell. This is a large recipe and make just a half of batch if you wish. If I don't need all the crumbs I just put them in a cool place, ( cellar) and keep them until next time. It keeps a good while there. I put surup in crust then the crumbs on top. If you want a more wet bottom just put more surup in and less crumbs.

Elizabeth


* Just a note, their simple ways of life is so refreshing at times, but, they work hard. Their is always the haying to do, the farming, the darning, the canning, the lumbering, the shoeing of horses, the work is endless. I hope they are around another hundred years.

BobL43
08-17-2011, 03:34 AM
Well, I have to take a vacation too.

On my travels I went to Pennsylvania where the Amish live. It was fascinating to see their simple way of life. So primitive.

They drink their water from wells.

They are rarely on public sewer.

And those that have power, only have overhead lines feeding their homes.

It was like Europe centuries ago.

The drivers are courteous there though. Someone has taught Pennsylvanians to drive. The only car that cut me up the whole journey had New York plates. Many Americans can't drive. It might be nature, it might be nurture.



The English value human life. If it had been the Americans they would have called in the army and marched those rioters to a football stadium, like during the Vietnam War demonstrations. America treats its people like animals.

And Americans are oh so willing to give to their community but oh so opposed to paying taxes.

Why?
The Amish people came to the US to escape the persecution they received in Europe, and ar able to exiast here oeacefully and in harmony with us fancy people. They do have their own problems too.

Ian Gills
08-17-2011, 05:28 AM
It seems that all the Americans were running away from the Europeans.

Seems a little bit over the top. If we were teasing you, there was probably good reason.

BobL43
08-17-2011, 06:27 AM
It seems that all the Americans were running away from the Europeans.

Seems a little bit over the top. If we were teasing you, there was probably good reason.

Ian, you've been watching Mary Poppins too often methinks. T'was not the tease, but the suffering. Snot funny needer.

Ian Gills
08-17-2011, 12:40 PM
In the Columbia Encyclopedia it is stated that "Although not actively persecuted, the Pilgrims were subjected to ecclesiastical investigation and to the mockery, criticism, and disfavor of their neighbors.".

It we'd all agreed on moderation in the church there would have been no need for runners.

Just what was wrong with our church?

Not strict enough?

BobL43
08-17-2011, 06:14 PM
http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/17/does-america-need-a-prime-minister/?hpt=hp_c2

Oh please, may we have a queen too?

Ian Gills
08-17-2011, 07:48 PM
Yes, you do need a Queen.

You've been lucky left to your own devices with your current President...he's the man for the job.

But previous examples have been less than you might have hoped.

And you don't need the American system to have checks and balances.

England has that too with both the Houses in its Parliament.

Anyone with a modicum of common sense could turn this country around on a dime.

Raise taxes on the rich to narrow the deficit and invest in education, health and infrastructure.

That would make America great again.

Not the crackpot ideas you hear on the TV.

Rich people create jobs? Whatever next?

There's no Time for Tea.

Cookie
08-17-2011, 07:54 PM
When I read where you rode across Pa and the Amish country, I thought I would give you a little insight into what kind of people they are, something you could not experience by looking out a car window. I tried by sharing some of what I have experienced with them. I hope it helped you in someway, some small way perhaps, to understand them. Usually, what I do fails or falls on deaf ears, lol. It is my lot in life.

BobL43
08-18-2011, 04:01 AM
Yes, you do need a Queen.

You've been lucky left to your own devices with your current President...he's the man for the job.

But previous examples have been less than you might have hoped.

And you don't need the American system to have checks and balances.

England has that too with both the Houses in its Parliament.

Anyone with a modicum of common sense could turn this country around on a dime.

Raise taxes on the rich to narrow the deficit and invest in education, health and infrastructure.

That would make America great again.

Not the crackpot ideas you hear on the TV.

Rich people create jobs? Whatever next?

There's no Time for Tea.

So you are a saying we have the African Queen? I thought we did that one once before.:p

wmills
08-18-2011, 04:09 AM
"Anyone with a modicum of common sense could turn this country around on a dime."

Lets out the current resident of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

Ian Gills
08-18-2011, 07:33 AM
No, the President the American people picked, they picked well. I can't raise a complaint there.

And Cookie, thank you for your insights on the Amish. They were gratefully received.

What I found most surprising, perhaps, is that their simple way of life is not that far off the rest of America.

In other words, the American way of life is quite simple too!

Lots of people drink their water ffrom wells.

Lots of people have septic tanks rather than being linked to public sewer.

And most of the power is supplied overhead.

I say it's time for a change. Let the Amish continue with their way of life, but the rest of America needs to get with the times.

And we should do that with taxpayer dollars.

I'm tired of driving on bridges that are crumbling.

We need another stimulus.

ballvalve
08-18-2011, 10:25 AM
The real Amish will not have power lines on their property. Pump water with a ram and run machines with hydraulics. Peculiar concept.

Next road trip stop - the Mormons. Damned interesting bunch of oddities in America. Great library.

And every GOOD man needs two wives, minimum.

Here we have Mennonites, but you find them in Walmart buying light blue cloth for their prarie dresses.

And here is what your English rioters get as a public service punishment: # 5 the latrine pit clean out.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/slideshow.cfm?id=health-brief-history-of-toilet

Cookie
08-18-2011, 04:37 PM
A neighbor was getting some furniture delivered by them today, a young amish man.
http://www.amishpeddler.com/
Beautiful handmade furniture.

Ian Gills
08-18-2011, 05:15 PM
They do make nice furniture.

I just wish they would use European growth.

American wood just don't cut the mustard.


http://youtu.be/shbgRyColvE

Cookie
08-19-2011, 08:13 AM
Nothing does in the US for you Ian.

BobL43
08-19-2011, 08:36 AM
Nothing does in the US for you Ian.

So it seems, yet he remains :rolleyes::confused:

ballvalve
08-19-2011, 11:04 AM
They do make nice furniture.

I just wish they would use European growth.

American wood just don't cut the mustard

Overload your opium pipe today? Hit the liquor stash in the car trunk?

European wood? What wood? That crap they grow like corn in vast straight lines and mill at 8" diameter?

You need to be knighted by the king in England to cut an oak down. [one of the 6 not in a park]

Your beloved Beech is all illegal Siberian logged, a disaster to the enviroment under no rules whatsoever except bribes.

The few oaks left are in Eastern Europe and the Ukraine.

Let me see you buy 8 to 12" wide CLEAR oak for $1.57 delivered, kiln dried. You can quadruple that cost even in Romania.

Buying black walnut for $3.42 a foot - likely 15$ in europe and American anyway.

Finally, we have REDWOOD, the king of woods. Because of our crash, I bought full rough all red 2x12's for .39 cents per board foot -several thousand feet. If I coud get it to Germany, I could retire.

Look up Sugar pine and 'Sierra Pacific lumber company' privately held, and he owns about 7 million acres of private timberland - largest private timber company on earth. Try that in Europe or England. And all managed under extraordinarily strict rules.

Just reopened one mill in Chinese camp, Ca. -3 shifts, and the logs are finally rolling through town, 20 to 50 inch diameter, 40 feet long. These would go to a museum in England.

Just cut down a standing dead sugar pine on my land. 54" at the base. Plenty of dead smaller ones for the woodpeckers.

Ian Gills
08-19-2011, 05:42 PM
I prefer elm over any of this American funny stuff.

May be it's just the lack of craftsmanship here that turns good growth into bad chairs.



Originally Posted by Cookie
Nothing does in the US for you Ian.
So it seems, yet he remains

I have told you guys plenty of times that the burgers in the US are the best in the world. And the pumps here are good too.

I also like the smoked sausage.

And watching American drivers on the newly built roundabouts where I live is possibly one of the funniest things I will ever see!

They just don't know how to use them...because they were never properly taught to drive.

ballvalve
08-20-2011, 01:17 PM
They are pretty poor drivers, but the roundabouts are just unknown to them.

We had billions of elms, but killed off by the blight, like chestnut, one of the all time best woods, along with black locust. Ash is close to elm and quite cheap.

Why walnut, the king of all wood is so cheap is quite a mystery to me.

If you want sausage, you have to go to France or Eastern Europe. But now finally some artisan producers [always done my own from hoof to pan] are making real sausages again. And Edwards smokehouse, out by you is making true proscuitto hams from range berkshire hogs.

The best is blood sausage, but the Americans have never figured that out either, like roundabouts.

zl700
08-20-2011, 06:33 PM
Police have released dramatic security camera footage they say shows masked and hooded rioters firing shots at unarmed officers and a police helicopter in the English city of Birmingham.

They hope the public will come forward with information as they investigate the violence that took place amid widespread rioting earlier this month.

The footage shows a group of 30 to 40 young men, dressed in black, in the Newtown area of Birmingham as they attacked a pub late on Tuesday, Aug. 9, West Midlands Police said in a statement.

As police tried to disperse the group, petrol bombs were thrown at a police car and shots were fired, police said. Officers believe the rioters intended to set fire to the pub.

Chief Constable Chris Sims said the incident was being treated as attempted murder and arson.

The force has taken the "unusual step" of releasing the footage because of the potential for serious harm to his officers and members of the public, he said.

"Eleven shots were fired at unarmed officers to enable disorder to continue, whilst petrol bombs were also thrown at officers who initially attended the scene," he said.

"This footage shows seemingly co-ordinated criminal behaviour with no regard for people's lives, whether it be through the setting of a fire, shooting at unarmed officers or shooting at the police helicopter."

West Midlands Police have so far arrested more than 500 people over the disturbances in Birmingham and nearby towns, of whom more than 140 have been charged.

On Friday, Prince William and Catherine, the Duchess of Cambridge, visited areas of Birmingham affected by the disorder.

They met with residents including a small business owner whose store in central Birmingham was looted, local community leaders and emergency responders.

Among the places they visited was Winson Green, an inner-city area where three young Asian men were killed by a hit-and-run driver amid the disturbances.

Four men have been charged over their deaths and police continue to question other suspects. An eighth man was arrested Friday on suspicion of murder, police said.

Your bobbies don't need to carry guns?

Ian Gills
08-21-2011, 06:36 AM
The simple fact of the matter is that having a gun discharge in England is an extremely rare event.

And because guns are banned, it's easy to spot the bad guys - because they are the ones that have guns.

No excuses if you get caught with one - jail time.

In America, the Police just don't know if a guy with a gun is a bad guy or not which is why your traffic cops are so jumpy.

Ban guns. It's common sense that seems to have been lost on Americans.

Cookie
08-21-2011, 08:25 AM
It is might be equally as easy to spot the bad guys just by looking at the dead good guys laying on the ground.

Times change Ian due to a necessity for it to. No one likes change but, sometimes, it has to be.

I think the people in your own country would feel alot safer if they knew the police was able to defend them and truly, save their lives, if need be.

Your countrymen should have the right to defend their very own lives. No country or govn should have the right to take that away. You can bet your boots Ian the people in the right positions in your govn have a gun to defend their own lives and that of their own families.

It is a basic right to want to survive. I betcha, the queen probably has one of those garterbelt gun hoisters like this, it probably matches her hats:

Ian Gills
08-21-2011, 09:58 AM
No American should have the right to own a gun.

Where did this sense of entitlement come from that I see so often with gun owners?

Police should be able to have them, but only specialized officers who are properly trained. That is what we have in England.

In America, any Tom, Dick or Harry can own one and - let's face it - Americans are simply not as clever as the Canadians.

Which is why many more people die from gun crime here.

The vast majority of it preventable if the country would just man up and Ban Guns.


Your countrymen should have the right to defend their very own lives.

We do. We just use bats, knives and fists instead. All of which do not kill, but still teach a lesson.

Why are Americans so intent on killing each other?

It's because the values handed down from your parents teach you not to care for anyone outside your family, isn't it?

The very same reason you dislike taxes.

The very same reason the drivers on your roads are so aggressive.

America needs to socialize. And care. For one another would be a good start.

Cookie
08-21-2011, 10:10 AM
Do you not believe that those in power in your country do not own a gun to protect their very own lives or that of their very own families?

I do not undestand why you think, that knives and fists and bats do not kill. They do Ian. Not everything is to teach a lesson like you cited.

And, mostly, I do not understand why the people of England are treated as K-students without a thinking brain in their head. You want to ban so much Ian, that everything is so controlled in your country. I am an adult. And, I can make decisions and choices and you should be too, and your countrymen should be able to, also.

I think, you may see the day come Ian, where your country will change because the people will demand it.

and... we do socialize, we target shoot, which is alot of fun. We have that choice Ian.

Every Tom, Dick and Harriet. :)

master plumber mark
08-21-2011, 10:49 AM
Ian, if you look at the history of europe, you will probably notice that
most countries were forced into submission by other countries because
they were helpless to defend themselves...

the founders of this country knew from the lessons learned that a well armed
militia was necessary to defend themselves....

this country would be very hard to take over when every other person has weapons

the same thing goes on in Switzerland, every able bodied man has a machine gun
locked away for a military emergency... and they train with them also...

Our country has a very ugly past if you want to look
at how we dis-placed the Indians....and what comes around usually goes around

someday someone will probably attempt to pass a law to force the citizens of
this country to pay the enourmous debt back to the corporations that own the
notes.... that is comming

Cookie
08-21-2011, 12:00 PM
Read our Second Amendment Ian. That is what gives us the right. The Second Amendment (Amendment II) to the United States Constitution is the part of the United States Bill of Rights that protects the right of the people to keep and bear arms. It was adopted on December 15, 1791, along with the rest of the Bill of Rights.

and...the rockets' red glare!
The bombs bursting in air!
Gave proof through the night
That our flag was still there.
Oh, say does that star spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free
And the home of the brave!

I love that song... :)
I want to sing it at the next ball game. lol

ballvalve
08-21-2011, 01:49 PM
Why are Americans so intent on killing each other?

Because we have so many that NEED killing compared to England.

Pool cues and shovel handles just make the average American more unpleasant. Drilling a small hole through him gets his attention.

And by the way, when the cop is walking to the car, roll down your window and keep BOTH hands fiddling with your wallet on the top of the steering wheel. Cop relaxes pretty quick. One hand on your cigarette and one under your right thigh gets a gun in your ear.

An open map on the passenger seat helps too. And spicy Doritos to hide the smell the smell of that last beer.

BobL43
08-21-2011, 03:00 PM
I am done reading and posting back to Ian's drivel. If the just a few of us stop "arguing" with him, Ian will be the only poster to Ian's corner. How about it guys and gal?
he is ..............ah never mind!

Cookie
08-21-2011, 03:33 PM
But I am "educating Ian." :)

BobL43
08-21-2011, 04:14 PM
OK, but I am not going to answer him, for sure. (fighting the addiction)

Ian Gills
08-21-2011, 04:45 PM
Come on Bob. This is much more fun than electronics.

Real life. Real politics. Real lives.

You can pretend to make it go away, but then China will bite your back.

How about taking a critical look at what can be done better?

The time to stick your head in the sand and trust the Constitution is gone.

Tom Sawyer
08-21-2011, 04:56 PM
Our founding fathers were smart enough to realize that an unarmed citizen is vunerable to a despotic government. We have the constitutional right to keep and bear arms as well as overthrow a tyrannical government which would be impossible to do if we had no weapons. Why do you suppose those countries with dictators forbid it's citizens to own firearms? If the riots in England become more viscous and wide spread how long do you think it will be before England sets its armed military upon it's own citizens?

Ian Gills
08-21-2011, 05:03 PM
I'd just love to see the American population, grandma and all, rise up against the US Government and its army. It would be a bloodbath.

My main complaint with gun ownership in America is most of the people here are not trained how to shoot. By definition, this means that they will aim and hit something else. Often, themselves.

Ban guns. Americans are simply not skilled enough to own them.

The Founding Fathers, if alive today, would be smart enough to know that a modern firearm is a little bit different to the gunpowder muskets they referred to. And would ban guns.

Cookie
08-21-2011, 06:13 PM
I bet I could trim that long hair sticking out on the side of your head and not miss.
:)

Tom Sawyer
08-22-2011, 05:51 AM
everyone I know that owns guns is pretty damn good with them. I can't speak for the British though, hell they still drive on the wrong side of the road and drink warm beer.

LOTW
08-22-2011, 07:08 AM
In America, any Tom, Dick or Harry can own one and - let's face it - Americans are simply not as clever as the Canadians.


The pendulum in Canada re gun control is beginning to swing the other way. Look for the long arm registry to be abolished soon. Where I frequent there has been a marked increase in wolf attacks on domestic pets, as apparently the deer population is decreasing. It is only a matter of time before a person becomes the next victim, an unfortunate circumstance which could be prevented by carrying a firearm. Ian, there remain places which are not governable by PHD's, social workers, and other trappings of big government. And we like it that way.

Cookie
08-22-2011, 08:06 AM
Ian, does this speak to you, just a little?
http://news.yahoo.com/iran-starts-moving-uranium-centrifuges-bunker-091104952.html

Ian Gills
08-22-2011, 09:20 AM
All guns serve to do is kill other Americans.

They "protect" no one.

Ban them.

And leave them in the hands of those that are trained to use them. Like the Army.

Cookie
08-22-2011, 11:47 AM
Whose armies? lol.

Ian, you got one life to live that is it. Maybe, if you had to fight to keep it, you would better understand this. Until, then, it is easy to be naive. Guns do serve their purpose. Like LOTW said, not to be a wolf's meal, in my neck of the woods, a bear's, and to protect oneself and family from the biggest possible predator of all, man. Maybe, Bob is right.

LOTW
08-22-2011, 12:13 PM
All guns serve to do is kill other Americans.

They "protect" no one.

Ban them.

And leave them in the hands of those that are trained to use them. Like the Army.

Ian, I am not a member of the NRA because, like you, I believe that people should be required to know how to use guns before they acquire one. But I enjoy reading the NRA's magazine, and every month it has documented reports of guns protecting people. One of Iowa's US representative, Leonard Boswell, was recently the victim of a home invasion in which a weapon proved to be very effective protection. Please review what happened to him and report back to us as to whether you wish to change your overstated position on this issue.

Ian Gills
08-22-2011, 01:06 PM
The good ol' NRA magazine. They're welcome to keep it. Just ban guns.

The incidents reported are one in 300 million. I'd rather take my chance with the lottery.

The problem is that for every one of those stories, 10,000 American citizens (that's two-and-a-half 9/11s) are being killed by other American citizens using guns every single year. Numbers like that should put the terrorists out of work. Or they should go somewhere else where the residents aren't doing the job for them!

And how many kids get their hands on daddy's gun? A lot judging by the metal detectors you have in schools.

Do you have any idea how ridiculuous the notion of having metal detectors in schools sounds to other countries?

Stop listening to the lobbies.

America would be a safer place without guns.

LOTW
08-22-2011, 02:15 PM
[QUOTE=Ian Gills;310265]The good ol' NRA magazine. They're welcome to keep it. Just ban guns.

The incidents reported are one in 300 million. I'd rather take my chance with the lottery.

And how many kids get their hands on daddy's gun? A lot judging by the metal detectors you have in schools."

Do you have any idea how ridiculuous the notion of having metal detectors in schools sounds to other countries?

Metal detectors in schools are no more or no less ridiculous than metal detectors in soccer matches. Don't blame the victims for wanting to protect themselves.
I am not worried about my kids getting guns from parents. I am worried that kids who come to our community from other communities, primarily Chicago, to obtain public housing may have brought their guns with them. If you end public housing for all except the disabled you will end the need for metal detectors in schools. It may take two generations for the work ethic to be restored, but the first step is to discontinue rewarding people for not working.

Cookie
08-22-2011, 03:32 PM
What the statistics do not show, and probably can't ever all show, is how many lives are saved by someone having a gun for protection thwarting a potential loss of an innocent life. I agree with Bob.

Ian Gills
08-22-2011, 03:46 PM
I am speechless.

Your poor people from disadvantaged backgrounds are the same as those everywhere else.

The reason people don't die from gun crime in other countries in the horrific numbers as they do here is simply because gun ownership is controlled.

Ban guns. If you value life.

Am I only one around here that values American lives?

Tom Sawyer
08-22-2011, 04:47 PM
Ok Ian. Pooof....guns are banned. Now how do you plan on confiscating them without getting shot? Your argument is as hollow as those that wish to throw all the illegal aliens out of the country. In both cases there are too many of them and not enough man power or money to accomplish the impossible task. Find something else to crusade about. That one is a lost cause.

Ian Gills
08-22-2011, 06:42 PM
Tom,

You know as well as I do that Americans love rules. They hate to admit it, because the country was founded on Freedom, but deep inside each and every American is an admiration for rules, whether it be a building code or the law. Each of you has a born design to follow. And keep within the norms. I blame (or credit) your parents for this behavior.

Ban guns, and nine out of ten Americans would drop them off to the authorities the very next day. The remainder would drop them after a year or so when they find out they couldn't get the bullets.

Don't believe me?

Think of the humble three handle tub/shower valve. It's largely non-code compliant now. And I don't know a single American that didn't move over to a single pressure--balanced valve as soon as they found out these were no longer adequate. And for those that do still have them, just try to buy a replacement. They simply are not sold any more.

Ban guns and you'd have Americans queueing up at the Police Station the next day, eager to dispense of their arsonry to free their conscience.

Because y'all love rules and it just itches ya to be in "non-compliance". Americans just can't seem to sleep at night knowing they're not within the law.

A ban might not work elsewhere, but it would sure as heck work here!

Tom Sawyer
08-22-2011, 06:48 PM
Americans love rules? You need to take a trip to Texas, or Montana or perhaps New Hampshire :D

Cookie
08-22-2011, 06:49 PM
There has been a turn in your gun for cash program in different cities and, when first started their was alot of reports of guns being stolen, turned in for cash. I don't know how successful that is. :)

Ian Gills
08-22-2011, 06:51 PM
You know I'm right.

Tell your neighbors you don't respect the law or don't follow building code and watch the reception you get.

Of course you won't do that, will you?

ballvalve
08-27-2011, 12:49 AM
I am speechless.

Your poor people from disadvantaged backgrounds are the same as those everywhere else.

The reason people don't die from gun crime in other countries in the horrific numbers as they do here is simply because gun ownership is controlled.

Ban guns. If you value life.

Am I only one around here that values American lives?

Banning guns here would be just as effective as in Afghanistan.

No, you are not alone in valuing American lives, We just want to keep the freedom to extinguish those disturbed ones that deserve the cemetery.

If you don't have a gun taped to the Cadet 3 tank bottom in each toilet and one in each bedroom, and one next to the entry door, your chances of becoming a sad statistic are very high.

Although I have a delightful German Shepherd that would have to be shot several times before anyone was stupid enough to try and open a door.

Once you advocate dogs instead of pool cues, we will agree.

I am venturing a guess that a BIG Shepherd in a house is a better crime deterrent than any collection of guns

And another one outside makes you a total 'pass by' for criminals.

ballvalve
08-27-2011, 01:04 AM
I'd just love to see the American population, grandma and all, rise up against the US Government and its army. It would be a bloodbath.

Since we have such a good system of checks and balances, our army would'nt even get out of its bunks to quell a uprising proposed by a maniac ruler.

This is NOT Libya, in case you have not noticed yet.

Ian Gills
08-27-2011, 08:56 AM
Then you don't need the guns. Or are you worried Congress will come round and whoop your behind?

Without an army, they're a bunch of 70-something year olds (you like your elderly leaders here, don't you?).

Ban guns. Except Ballvalve who's afraid of his 75 year old Congress woman.

ballvalve
08-27-2011, 01:08 PM
My previous congressman was my partner in a large land and vineyard deal. Never dealt with such an avaricious, deranged, lying, disturbed individual.

A large newspaper did a front page article called "Vines and lies" But I was advised by other political friends that my honest interview would probably cause unusual fires to my house and business by the Portugese, Italian and other small time, big money farm mobsters.

They installed this imbecile as their puppet to preserve their free Govt. water supply and kick backs for NOT growing things.

The only medicine for this despot is a gun. Small caliber, starting with kneecaps.

But we need guns for the coming chinese invasion.

Ian Gills
08-27-2011, 02:54 PM
It's not the Chinese Ballvalve.

The English are coming.

BobL43
08-27-2011, 05:41 PM
It's not the Chinese Ballvalve.

The English are coming.

Ian, man your pump, not little Ian. this is no time for self gratification.

ballvalve
08-29-2011, 10:29 AM
It's not the Chinese Ballvalve.

The English are coming.

Well, then we just need pool cues and pasties to beat or lure them into submission. They'll soon be driving Ford pick ups and learning real English and calling us mates...

The Chinese will have us pounding broken yellow pottery into hot asphalt for the center lines. [Actually saw it] and clearing out the SPCAS's and pounds [and our yards] for their dinners. And killing all our bears for their claws and gall bladders

Ian Gills
08-29-2011, 11:53 AM
The English would not sit by and watch that happen Ballvalve.

Don't worry. You're ours, not theirs.