American Standard vs Toto

I've been reading lots of toilet reviews online, and it seems like Toto is the MVP these days ... but American Standard Champion 4 wins hands down on Consumer Reports. (They claim it's better for liquid waste removal and noise.)

I'm mainly concerned with solid waste removal (I have an old Gerber and it needs almost daily plunging) -- but don't want to compromise too much on the other stuff -- but my main intent is No More Plunging.

Is Toto getting great press because they really are great, or are they merely putting tons of money into marketing?

Any advice is much appreciated!

Laura S.

TOTO isn't spending money on advertising, American Standard is.

Take a look at CR's Best Buy Dual flush in their last report.
Gerber DF-21-318 Ultraflush with WDI pressure assist
40% returns in six months. Did CR do their homework on this one?

Here's a CR Best Buy PF/2 pressure assist by Crane
It would shred paper and require two flushes to clear the bowl. The manufacturer that made the inner tank is out of business.

The original Champion that CR loved so much. I brought one home that was replaced by a Toto, and offered to the neighbor across the street. He asked if there was something wrong with it. He had a Champion already in his home that was leaking water and figured the one I wanted to give him was going to need a rebuild too. A/S is now replacing the inner tank parts on that tank. But that didn't stop CR from giving the bowl their stamp of approval.

CR likes the Mansfield Alto too.
Our main business is pulling them out of homes. What is CR thinking?

CR tests with rubber sponges and baby wipes.
What do you flush? is it rubber sponges and baby wipes? Or do you do something stupid like using toilet paper. CR doesn't like toilet paper, and they don't like anything dirty. They like to pull what goes through and reuse it over and over again, and not get their white shirt and pants dirty.
But if you only need to flush rubber sponges and baby wipes a few times before writing your "exhaustive report" then I guess anything may do. The rest of us figure that we should get years and years of service out of something so basic.

The reason many plumbers are pushing Toto now, is that the returns are less then 1%
Time is money, and nobody pays you for the time it takes to replace bad porcelain, or tank parts.
Since CR thinks testing beyond three flips of the lever is "below" them, how would they know how long the stuff lasts?
Gee, maybe ask people that sell and service them, Maybe people that use them in their own homes? Maybe people that do plumbing for a "living"?

I don't get the CR admiration?
When I worked in a bicycle shop, they tested bikes by smashing them into a brick wall. if the fork didn't' bend, it was a top pick.
Sort of like testing hammers. CR was just a big joke to us. But when someone came into the shop and said they read CR, I knew which one to sell and didn't bother showing them the good stuff.
Guys in white coats that wear big boots don't need to ride bikes, they just smash them against brick walls and report on how many bricks fall off.


Consumers Reports doesn't report on quality control either.
A nice picture of an American Standard bowl.
Would you want this in your home?

Awesome -- thank you! Just the kind of feedback I'm looking for. Toto is looking better all the time. My only question now is whether the CEFIONTECT is worth the extra $. If you have any opinions about this too, I'm listening!

Thanks again

The CEFIONTECT isn't needed, but it is nice.
I have some customers that always ask for it. It is easier to keep clean.

CEFIONTECT poll

What an awesome wealth of information! Thank you very much!

I have another question about the seat/lid, but will save that for another day.

Thanks again ...
Laura S.

The seats seem to be a love/hate thing. I may be the exception...they're fine. I don't make a habit of sitting on it for extended periods. They have a shape that tends to force you to sit for maximum efficiency in getting the business into the water spot. Some people like to perch forward on the edge and for those, it would be very uncomfortable. The softclose function is nice - no accidental banging in the middle of the night, or smashed fingers of little ones. The only other softclose seat I'm aware of is made by Bemis which has a neat feature where it quickly comes off. This makes it easier to clean under it. I don't find the Toto to be a problem, but for some, the quick removal is a big thing. There're basically two seats that fit the vast majority of toilets: round or elongated. They'll all bolt on, the manufacturer's version should color match better and may follow the contours more exactly, but they'll fit and work. There are some exceptions, but most can use any brand seat.