New Pump New Problem

Two weeks ago, my submersible pump in my water well went bad. Local contractor came out and replaced submersible pump (1hp), wiring to pump, water pressure tank (Wellmate) in the house, Franklin Electric pump control and Square D Pumptrol pressure switch. Well is 320 ft.

Pressure switch was set at 40 lbs kick on and 60 lbs kick off. When pressure drops to 40 lbs, pressure switch clicks but pressure continues to drop. Between 30 lbs and 0 lbs (depending on water draw at the time), the pump kicks on (or at least it feels like it kicks on based on feel of vibration on the plastic line coming into the house).

Any ideas - besides calling the contractor back?

could be foot valve at base of pump is bad

Missing water?

I would not be reluctant to call the installer back. You bought new pump, tank, and controls. He owes you a working system.

Was the local contractor a well/pump contractor or was he a house framer or painter who does pumps on the side?

There are several possibilities.
If there is a check valve at the top, and a leak in the pipe and/or the check valve in the pump, you could lose about 19 gallons of water if it is 250 ft from surface to water in a 1 1/4" (1.38 ID) pipe. That would take 2 to 4 minutes to refill with a small pump, resulting in delay of arrival of water at the tank.

There could be a problem with the control box, but I haven't figured out what it could be. Part of that can be checked with a simple voltmeter, to see if you are getting voltage at the in and out connections of the control box when the switch actuates. The current can be checked with a clamp-on ammeter, which is a less common instrument.

You should try to verify from the installer that the new pump has the same flow/pressure characteristics as the one it replaced, or have a good explanation if it is different. You should have a sticker somewhere telling you the model number of the pump. Maybe you could post it.

The pump requirement is based on the depth from surface to water when the well is pumping at the design capacity, with some margin of safety. The depth to water is less than, usually a lot less than, the depth of the well.

It was a reputable well/pump/driller contractor in the area.

I'll give a call to the contractor tomorrow have them check it out and will post back here what the problem was. I agree, I paid for a new working system and that is what I should get.

The air pressure in the new pressutre tank could be off. For 40/60, it should be 39-38 psi with no water in the tank.

Or you have a serious leak between the pump and the pressure tank. Shut off the water to the house, past the tank. Watch the pressure gauge and if the pressure falls, you have a leak. If you have more than the check valve in/on the pump's outlet, you won't see the pressure fall but, you can still have a leak or you'd see pressure building on the gauge when you feel the vibration and the pressure switch contacts are closed. That assumes power to the switch and then the pump.

Gary
Quality Water Associates

I would be wondering what made the old pump go bad and if the same problem may be working on the new pump.

Did the well guy check the droppipe for leaks/holes. If you do have a checkvalve up by the tank, he should have removed it unless you have a galvanized tank with an air maker device. But you said he installed a new Well Mate (bladder tank) Maybe you had a galvanized tank with an air making device and he didn't remove the check valve due to lack of experience. (the painter doing weekend pump work). This would mean the bleeder is still working in the droppipe draining it down while the pump is off and the check valve is holding the water in the tank. Then when the pump comes on like BobNh said after all that pipe has been drained it takes a while to fill it again.

bob...

Thanks guys for all the information.

Contractor came out today to check things out. First thing he mentioned was that the pressure was off between the tank setting and kick-on pressure set on the pressure switch. Not sure why, but he also suspected the pressure switch had a problem. He replaced the pressure switch and reset the switch to kick on slightly higher - 42 lbs. Now when the pressure switch kicks on, there is still a slight delay before the pump delivers water - drops to about 40-41 lbs, but not as bad as before.

He did show me that current was delivered to the pump at time the pressure switch kicks. Unfortunately we've had a lot of rain and he could not get his rig up to the well casing to pull the pump and check further. Once the ground firms up a bit he'll be back.

When he replaced the pump, he also replaced all the pipe couplings with brass, and placed a check value at 160 ft and a check valve right before the water tank. Suspected reason for the pump being replaced was the water tank being waterlogged and excessive start/stops by the pump. It wasn't a galvanized tank, but a blue metal tank with a bladder (about 3 ft tall - can't remember the manufacture).

He replaced the couplings with brass?

I don't mind the checkvalve at the 160' level, but the one at the tank has to go.

bob...

Pipe couplings were white plastic - pipe to submersible is the 20' sections of thick walled white plastic (schedule 40?). Anyway I speculate the theory was risk of reusing plastic coupling and developing crack or?

Interesting - you say the check valve has to go at the tank. Thoughts on this?

More than likely Sch 80 PVC.

The reason a check valve at the tank is a bad deal is:

1. It can mask a leak up stream of the tank in the horizontal line feeding the tank or in the droppipe.
2. It can let in contamination while the pump is off and feed it into the home when the pump comes on.
3. It can cause air spitting from the faucets.
4. It can also hide the fact that you may have a cracked pipe in the well that could possibly break totally off, sending your pump to the bottom.
5. If there was a leak that it was masking, this will run the pump longer and shorten it's life while running up the light bill unnecessarily.

bob...

White usually Sch 40; Sch 80 Gray

My experience is that white PVC is schedule 40, while all Sch 80 that I have ever seen is gray. My supplier sells white well pipe schedule 40 with bell end for cement joint. Only threading allowed on sch 40 is with the standard molded adapters. Most submersible piping around here is high strength polyethylene rated for the required pressure or higher.

Ours is threaded both ends (Sch80) is white and has male thread one end female on the other. Works great, no couplings needed and no gluing.

bob...