Water Line Inside Sewer Pipe

[rugoofy]

My neighbor had a new water line installed. When the company they hired pushed the water line through the ground they hit and broke my sewer line, which is actually a community sewer line that I share with at least one other neighbor. Since they had their water line installed I have been getting sewage backing up into my basement about once every 3-4 weeks. I've tried talking to my neighbor and the company that installed their water line but haven't gotten anywhere with them. The company that installed the water line says its not their fault because they didn't know the water line was there and my neighbor doesn't want to pay to get it fixed. Does anyone here have any suggestions for me? Can I go to the water department and get their water line condemned until they get it fixed? I'm not sure what I can do short of hiring a lawyer and sueing them so anything would help. thank you very much.

[cacher_chick]

I wouldn't be on the internet asking questions, I would be talking to the municipality. There are specific rules that govern the positioning of a potable water line in relation to a sanitary line, and it is apparent they did not follow them.

[Terry]

The neighbor should repair any lines that were broken.
It's his water service replacement that caused the damage.

[Jerome2877]

The company that installed the water line says its not their fault because they didn't know the water line was there

The first thing that is done before any excavating is to get locates for any underground services. If they did this and still hit something they are still liable to fix it.

[Terry]

Locates don't establish where the sewer line to a property is.
Only for things like
Gas
Electrical,
Telephone
Cable

Locates don't find side sewers or water services.
The contractor should fix the line where it has been broken, but the homeowner is contracting and paying for the work.
Is the homeowner saying, Sorry, I hired a hack and now it's "your" problem?

I can't imagine replacing someone water service, drilling and ruining a sewer line by accident and then just leaving the job.

[Gary Swart]

Unless you get immediate action to remedy this, I would urge you to contact an attorney. If there is need for legal action, to sooner the attorney has the case, the better. You should not have to fight this on your own. Trying to be Mr. Nice Guy and avoid hiring legal help is just asking for trouble.

[hj]

I once had a job where the telephone company drilled their wire through a sewer, and they made the repair. NOT KNOWING where sewer lines are is a constant problem, as is drilling through them, but when it is done, whoever did it IS responsible for the repair. Here, you would call the Arizona Registrar of Contractors to "force" them to fix your sewer. (And if the did not, the state WOULD repair it, deduct the amount from the contractor's bond, then put them out of business until they repaid the amount), Illinois should have a similar agency.

[Smooky]

I do not think you could get his water line condemned because it is under pressure. If a hole comes in the water line, it will leak out ,not into the water line. If your sewer line is clogged, you have no choice but to snake it out. If his water line is in there and gets broken or mashed so what? Also it may be some other problem that just happened about the same time. Could just be a coincident and not their fault, unless you saw or know for sure they broke your sewer line.

[hj]

I would snake the sewer with a rotary saw blade. IF the water line is through the sewer, then that would take care of that problem, and it would NOT be your responsibility because it was broken.

[Terry]

If it's a plastic line, then a snake should be able to cut the line.
The gas company ran their gas line through my mothers clay tile sewer line. When it was snaked, it cut the gas line. It was a lot of fun after that for the gas company.

This was the high pressure plastic line before the pressure reducer.
Lucky for my mother, was that the plumber was using an outside cleanout.
Otherwise, the home could have filled up with gas and exploded.

[Redwood]

If it's a plastic line, then a snake should be able to cut the line.
The gas company ran their gas line through my mothers clay tile sewer line. When it was snaked, it cut the gas line. It was a lot of fun after that for the gas company.

They are lucky they didn't end up building her a new house...

[SteveW]

Helloooo!

Calling RUGOOFY - are you still here?

[rugoofy]

Thanks for all the replies. They did contact J.U.L.I.E. and the sanitation dept. but the sanitation dept. didn't know where the sewer lines were at. Terry - They have basically said that since your the one getting the sewage in your basement and we're not it's your problem. It is a plastic water line but instead of crossing the sewer pipe it runs in the same direction as the pipe for about 2-3 ft. then goes back out making it difficult to break the line. I like the rotary blade idea. I might try that the next time I clean it out. I've had it cleaned out 7 times now but the water line is still intact. One thing I forgot to mention is that the sewer line is a community sewer line with 3 houses connected to it. Mine is the lowest lying house on the line and of course the person who had the water line installed is the highest. I have contacted a lawyer in case it has to go that far and have contacted the property standards dept. for Rockford, IL. to see if I can get the city to shut their water off. and hj I'm looking to see if Illinois has something similar to the Arizona Registrar of contractors.

[hj]

Gas lines through sewer lines are becoming a problem for sewer cleaners. And when you cut one you have to be "quick" to exit the house and take everyone in it with you because as soon as the gas reaches an ignition source the house is going to "GO" away.

[Redwood]

A blade like this one should do a nice job of cleaning your sewer...

http://productivecarbides.com/images/cutter1.jpg

[ballvalve]

The problem is how do you really know that the sewer line is damaged? If you sue and you are wrong, you will have a huge bill to pay.

[Allen W McFay]

Use a camera snake?

[rugoofy]

The problem is how do you really know that the sewer line is damaged? If you sue and you are wrong, you will have a huge bill to pay.

I know that the water line is in the sewer pipe because I had a plumber put a camera snake in the sewer line and it showed a hole about 2-3 ft long and you could see the water line the entire length of the hole. When i had the camera put inn the sewer line the contractor that had the water line installed was there and admitted to doing it but said its not her fault because she had no way of knowing that it was there because both j.u.l.i.e. and the sanitation dept. didn't tell her about it.

[ballvalve]

Tell it to the judge - She will get a quick education in digging and fixing.

[Terry]

If you were to take this to small claims court, I would think you would get a judgment that would comp you for the repair.
It's quick and easy, and you don't need a lawyer. Then you could find a plumber that could fix the problem once and for all.

However, there must not be any lawyers that read this stuff, or perhaps it's just that lawyers don't give it out for free.
When my father was living, I could just ask him.
My simple course of action would be small claims, pick up the judgment money and continue on. Course it may not be that simple.
Read this little nugget from the Seattle area to find out how crazy neighbors can get.

Little crazy story about neighbors. (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2015057287_badneighbor15m.html)
Neighbor's dispute escalates into all-out legal war

[SacCity]

I had a neighbor who had put their driveway on my property 5 feet wide and 100 feet long.
It was a rental so I didn't much care but did not want to loose my property. I had offered to rent it her for $100, per year, then $50, and finally $5. A year of working with her to move the fence. First she said that she would, several months later, I offered to split the cost with her, finally I agreed to pay all cost. I showed up with a crew and materials, at which point she refused to let me work and called her lawyer. Six long hard years, later we resolved the issue. Initially before things got really ugly her title insurance was going to pay for the work. But she fought and played games, the result being that the insurance backed out and left her with the bill. I received payments from her for a long time.... But she did pay off the judgment.

Michael
SacCityPlumbing.com

[ballvalve]

Never buy less than 5 acres, and be sure of no view to your house from anywhere. Live long and prosper!

Keep a BIG German Shepherd inside. You will never need a lawyer or become a statistic. A small pocket pistol helps too.

[bulldog plumbing]

illinois plumbing code calls for a vertical separation of the sewer and water in the same trench of at least 18 inches. get a camera down the sewer to record the problem and then, sounds like it's off to court. if the contractor had it julie'd, if i understand it correctly, they still have to fix the problem, but julie picks up the tab.

[rugoofy]

Thanks for all the help everyone. Since my last post I found out that the city I live in, Rockford, IL has a Property Standards Dept. whose job it is to enforce building/plumbing codes and have contacted them about this. I now have people in the Property Standards Dept., Permit Dept., Sanitation Dept. and Water Dept. working on this problem for me. I also have the direct phone # to the Superintendent of the Water Dept. Last Thursday they decided to tell my neighbor that she has 5 days to fix the problem or her water will be shut off. Friday morning my neighbor finally called me to talk to me about the sewer line for the first time since I first told her about it last January. Up until this morning I have been the one calling her to try to get her to do something about this and calling her plumber to try to get her to fix it was well. Its amazing what I have had to do just to get her to call her plumber to fix what they broke. Unfortunately her plumber doesn't think its her fault and wants us to pay for part of the repairs. So my neighbors water line will probably be shut off next week. The Water Dept. told me if my neighbor doesn't get it fixed and they have to go out there to shut off the water line, they will do some water quality tests in the area and if they find any contaminants they will fix the sewer line themselves and make my neighbor pay for it. If they don't find any contaminants then they will basically go from one dept. to the next until one of them can up with something that will legally allow them to go onto their property and fix the sewer line.

[rugoofy]

"if the contractor had it julie'd, if i understand it correctly, they still have to fix the problem, but julie picks up the tab. "

In Rockford, IL J.U.L.I.E. only does locates for electric, gas and cable lines. You have to go to the sanitation dept. to get a locate for a sewer line but because of the age of the houses where I live (80+ years old) and how poorly the records have been kept for the area, the sanitary dept. will not give locations for the private sewer lines in my area. However I believe it is still the plumbers responsibility to locate the sewer line by hiring a locator to locate it for them.

[rugoofy]

You're right Terry its not that simple. I talked to a lawyer about it and was told that since my neighbor was the one who hired the plumber she would have to be the one to take the plumber to court and since my neighbor hasn't been willing to do anything I would have to take her to court to which would then force her to take the plumber to court. Its a big mess. I finally figured out that Rockford has a dept. called property standards whose job it is to enforce building/plumbing codes and they got with the water dept. and told my neighbor that she has 5 days to fix the pipe or her water will be shut off.

[rugoofy]

You can see the video of my sewer line on Youtube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STzzJM-Xtxo. You'll have to fast forward to about 104 ft to see the pipe, before that its all black because its going through sewage.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STzzJM-Xtxo