PDA

View Full Version : Just What Does Ian Gills Understand?



Redwood
02-06-2011, 09:25 AM
I'm noticing a lot of threads where Ian Gills doesn't understand something about how we do it in the US...

I'm wondering if there is anything he does understand....

It would be handy to know so we know what topics we don't need to brush up on....

I think a lot of his "Understanding"problems stem from his failure to realize that we kicked the declining empire to the curb 235 years ago....

Since then counties all over the world have followed our example and done the same...

jimbo
02-06-2011, 11:29 AM
He understands that he is better off here than there, and he understands that we are free to complain to our hearts content!

ballvalve
02-06-2011, 11:33 AM
He understands wooden sticks tied to your feet break your legs when sliding on snow.

He understands how to rile you up about Washington and his ex-monsterarchy that he really doesn't care about.

I'll bet if we were dropped off to do mechanical work in London, our don't understands would go into thousands.

"I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY I CANNOT BUY AN UZI IN LIVERPOOL"

"I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THE ENGLISH DO NOT SPEAK ENGLISH"

Ian Gills
02-10-2011, 11:45 AM
No, seriously, the stuff I post as not understanding on here, I really do not get.

I am very well traveled and, normally, I get to understand local values and issues pretty quick. I agree that many countries have followed the US example but there are no other places out there that are quite like it. In most other countries, kids go to school, the sick get treated, the unemployed get benefits, there are fewer power outages and few people get shot (including by the Police).

America is extreme. By extreme, I mean such little Government support for the individual but so many rules and regulations governing your conduct. So you're free here in the sense of no-one giving a damn about you, until you break the rules. Most other countries are a little more balanced.

Any how I've been in the US for six years now and there is still some stuff I just don't understand because a lot of what you do here is done because "the Founding Fathers said so" or "because of the Church" and you've never taken the time to think about it yourselves.

So in the US, you have some really dumb ideas that just stick around even though the majority of Americans are very smart.

Like guns. Banning them is a no-brainer. But you still allow them.

If you allow them, people are going to get shot. There are 100,000 gun injuries in the US every year. Are you really telling me that your right to own a gun justifies that misery? Can you see why that might seem a little mad to people who come from places where there are, at most, a few hundred shootings a year?

And climate change. Thank God the EPA is now going to regulate the heck out of your power plants.

Your kids will get better jobs and live better because of that. But some Amercians don't seem to care. They just want cheap power and gas for the moment they are living in! Very shortsighted.

So I am trying to get explanations for the things Americans take as granted, that foreigners just see as weird and extreme. You are all either very clever or extremely stupid and my questioning is an attempt to work out which.

geniescience
02-10-2011, 12:34 PM
you take bait. Ian you bit. But you got serious so you turned it to your advantage. Bully for you, old c*ap. I don't much contribute to silly subject threads, but this one will be good because the paradox is clear and deep, now that Ian has redefined himself as a thinker. Or, at least, he has raised some points succinctly.

Ian, here is a hint, if you want to know where you will find people who can converse reasonably with you. Millions of good people have official status on both sides of the US-Canada border but won't talk about it openly, because both governments want it not to be known, that one could easily have the right to be working and living on either side of the border at any time. It seems to be a no-no, to say this. Go figure, everywhere else in the world people want free speech while we already have it. (And for some subjects we won't use it.) Go figure, it's taboo to talk about legal status or any gray zone. Millions of Americans have Canadian ancestry, and vice versa also: in Canada, if you scratch the surface, you find that many people have US status too, because their parents were US citizens, or because they moved to the USA for a few years and then moved back to Canada, or for a number of other reasons. But you have to dig to find that out.

Some or most of these people could be good observers of all the things Ian just raised: paradoxical results that come out of some basic thinking. I'm saying as clearly as I can that people who have lived for years at a time on each side of the Canada-US border can be good observers to the problems that Ian wants to discuss.

In my family tree, almost everyone in the last 150 years has either been a dual citizen or has had parents who were citizens of the other country. (Various people moved back and forth every so often).

There ARE seemingly inexplicable things that seem to have developed into a state religion at the same time as traditional religious affiliations keep up their old discourse. What do the Quakers say about all this? Decades ago they were strongly against a war that one president announced was "to win hearts and minds" of the people being invaded. In a recent year, I heard another president announce an invasion "to win hearts and minds" of the people being invaded and I wondered if it worked previously. Some topics are SO taboo that any attempt at discussion turns into a blasting session.

Thank you Terry Love for allowing a clown in a print shirt to write out his rambling thoughts and give him time to finally make sense. I don't wear prints; Ian does.

Terry
02-10-2011, 12:54 PM
I enjoy Ian's comments, and Redwoods. Quite entertaining, and both make good points.
It's not real popular to question the wars we get into, though you really have to wonder how we are changing peoples belief systems by force. That never worked in school, and it's not going to happen anytime soon.
Iraq, what was that about?
Vietnam, what was that about?
So many good men and women, doing their best overseas, it's too bad we couldn't keep them here where they would be safe, and doing things here.
I'm pretty sure, there are a lot of places in the US that need help. And it would be nice if the worst that could happen is a fist fight. Though those can get bad too. All in all, I feel much safer here then when I travel. Canada always feels safe, South of the US gets a little tense. I would love to go to Asia, Europe and South American though.

Cookie
02-10-2011, 06:34 PM
That is true Ian. People are just flocking to live in those other countries, breaking all barriers to live in those countries. That is true, kids in China are so much smarter, that is why the suicide rate their for kids and women are the highest anywhere. Hey! When I was 12, I wouldn't mind going to school 12 to 14 hours a day, 7 days a week, and sure... I want to be treated just like the women there are treated, boy o boy, they better have a boy child, first time around. I also, have no problem in wearing burka's... they are cool, so I want to live there, too, and life won't be the best until, I do. I see nothing wrong with stoning women, (adultery is so wrong) beheading, hanging, our judicial system stinks next to that. Yep, you are right Ian. Time is not of the essence in being treated for small things like cancer. Nah, victims, I mean, patients can wait a few months on a waiting list. It is only fair, what is a little thing like our great survival rates. For the life of me, I have no idea why anyone tries to illegally sneak in here, I mean, why not Africa? I hear the water is great there and plentiful, enough for everyone. What's a little Malaria.

Yes, Ian, we are so very extreme, with what our compassion, our sincerity to do right, and to say...here... opening not only our hearts but our wallets to everyone, every country in the world. Yes, we set a horrible example. It is a good thing, I don't see that bad example elsewhere.

Yeah, we don't bow to neon Gods, we make such terrible decisions in believing that something greater than us created us, and wowee, zolee, we go to church. Church. Excuse me for swearing. It is such a bad word in the English language. Wait! I am not speaking the King's language.

Yes, you are right Ian. We are so extreme to do target shooting. To go to the woods and shoot at cans, and plastic jugs, not at missionaries in some other country. Oh, wait, why would we shoot at ourselves helping others out? We are the missionaries for the most part, the saintly little people who want to teach english and try to improve the lives of other countries, that everyone wants to sneak into.

Why, my goodness, we got guns. This should be banned. Will you look around you while on your worldly travels and see the truth, please. Take off the rose-colored glasses.

What should be banned? Not seeing things for as they are. Our guns are not the problem. They are only your complaint.

Ps. I hear now is a great season to visit the Pyramids. The weather is beautiful.

Yes, you are right Ian, the whole world is so much more balanced.




No, seriously, the stuff I post as not understanding on here, I really do not get.

I am very well traveled and, normally, I get to understand local values and issues pretty quick. I agree that many countries have followed the US example but there are no other places out there that are quite like it. In most other countries, kids go to school, the sick get treated, the unemployed get benefits, there are fewer power outages and few people get shot (including by the Police).

America is extreme. By extreme, I mean such little Government support for the individual but so many rules and regulations governing your conduct. So you're free here in the sense of no-one giving a damn about you, until you break the rules. Most other countries are a little more balanced.

Any how I've been in the US for six years now and there is still some stuff I just don't understand because a lot of what you do here is done because "the Founding Fathers said so" or "because of the Church" and you've never taken the time to think about it yourselves.

So in the US, you have some really dumb ideas that just stick around even though the majority of Americans are very smart.

Like guns. Banning them is a no-brainer. But you still allow them.

If you allow them, people are going to get shot. There are 100,000 gun injuries in the US every year. Are you really telling me that your right to own a gun justifies that misery? Can you see why that might seem a little mad to people who come from places where there are, at most, a few hundred shootings a year?

And climate change. Thank God the EPA is now going to regulate the heck out of your power plants.

Your kids will get better jobs and live better because of that. But some Amercians don't seem to care. They just want cheap power and gas for the moment they are living in! Very shortsighted.

So I am trying to get explanations for the things Americans take as granted, that foreigners just see as weird and extreme. You are all either very clever or extremely stupid and my questioning is an attempt to work out which.

jimbo
02-11-2011, 06:59 AM
In most other countries, kids go to school, the sick get treated, the unemployed get benefits, there are fewer power outages and few people get shot (including by the Police).

America is extreme. By extreme, I mean such little Government support for the individual but so many rules and regulations governing your conduct. So you're free here in the sense of no-one giving a damn about you, until you break the rules. Most other countries are a little more balanced.

Any how I've been in the US for six years now and there is still some stuff I just don't understand because a lot of what you do here is done because "the Founding Fathers said so" or "because of the Church" and you've never taken the time to think about it yourselves.

So in the US, you have some really dumb ideas that just stick around even though the majority of Americans are very smart.

Like guns. Banning them is a no-brainer. But you still allow them.

If you allow them, people are going to get shot. There are 100,000 gun injuries in the US every year. Are you really telling me that your right to own a gun justifies that misery? Can you see why that might seem a little mad to people who come from places where there are, at most, a few hundred shootings a year?

And climate change. Thank God the EPA is now going to regulate the heck out of your power plants.

Your kids will get better jobs and live better because of that. But some Amercians don't seem to care. They just want cheap power and gas for the moment they are living in! Very shortsighted.

So I am trying to get explanations for the things Americans take as granted, that foreigners just see as weird and extreme. You are all either very clever or extremely stupid and my questioning is an attempt to work out which.

a). I can't recall in the last 20 years that I have personally experienced a power outage. Of course they happen. Sunspots happen. $@$%@ happens. Get over it.
b) I am 66. Once, I was unemployed for a few months. I received unemployment pay. I have health care . My kids have health care. Everyone I know has health care. Yup, pay through the nose for it so we can pay for health care for the ILLEGAL ALIENS.
c) People crash cars and kill people in the crash. Wanna ban cars??
d) The gun thing is a practical matter. 150 million people own guns. You aren't going to get them back. Don't even think about it. I don't own a gun, but every time they talk about more regulations, I get a little closer to buying one!
e) If you think the US government is TOO SMALL, just let a copy of the IRS Code Book fall off a shelf and hit you on the head!
f) The border checkpoint here at the Otay Mesa port of entry is WIDE OPEN going south. The internet doesn't work much down there, but you could write to us!


BOTTOM LINE: WE LIKE IT HERE.! and apparently 20 to 30 million Mexicans and Central Americans and Chinese and Pakistanis and maybe even a few Brits , seem to think we have a better deal going here!!!!!!

ballvalve
02-11-2011, 10:24 AM
You are all either very clever or extremely stupid and my questioning is an attempt to work out which.

An excellent point which I began researching around the age of 15. Finally, after writing a weekly column as an Eastern European foreign correspondant during the years of the breakup of the Soviet Union, and putting a few hundred thousand back-road kilometers on various cars between France and Moscow, I came to a bit of a conclusion.

You will never work out which it is. There is a general stratification of very ignorant and very bright, but the modifiers of cunning and good natured, mixed with a chance bit of dormant insanity, allow any sort of the above to capture power in America, or anywhere, at any time.

Frankly, I give little hope toward the future of polite society anywhere, unless god blesses us with a swift and painless plague that would allow a fresh start for the earth.

As to guns, my travels tell me that most would love to have our freedom and SPACE in which to shoot to their hearts content.

We just need to continue divesting the ignorant and insane of guns. But because it is impossible to determine well, the nature of a human being, which is changeable by week or year or an instant, our existing laws seem the best we can do.

Global warming is far beyond our pompous notion that we can understand its actions. The earth is just running one of millions of cycles.

A good asteroid would solve all of our debates.

Cookie
02-11-2011, 10:40 AM
It's coming... it's coming. :) Supposed to hit our moon first, then bounce off of us. This information was gained from the children's network. lol.

They illustrated it with the Roadrunner and Coyote, very interesting to see.

Ian Gills
02-11-2011, 03:21 PM
BOTTOM LINE: WE LIKE IT HERE.! and apparently 20 to 30 million Mexicans and Central Americans and Chinese and Pakistanis and maybe even a few Brits , seem to think we have a better deal going here!!!!!!

That does not mean we can make America even better! Or are you all to lazy to even try?


We are so extreme to do target shooting.

Those targets tend to be people Cookie! 100,000 injured by guns in the US every year. Over 30,000 killed by guns in the US, every year. Over 10,000 murdered by guns in the US, every year. Ban them.

Most of the 150 million will be returned. As I have said before, Americans are good people and just love rules. Look at permits for installing gas water heaters. Everybody has one!

Cookie
02-11-2011, 04:10 PM
I think Ian, you should become a citizen and then, join the Marines. Those rose-colored glasses will be a thing of the past. Join the military.

Ian Gills
02-11-2011, 05:57 PM
Even by American standards (which is saying something) I am now too old and too fat to join the military.

They would not have me.

It was not my calling, but if I had been born here it would have seemed like a good option to get a paid education, a good pension and decent healthcare - which should be universal for all citizens, not just those in the armed forces.

I am utterly confused as to why America so freely tolerates throwing handouts at its veterans but not to its plumbers. Does a taxpaying plumber not contribute as much to this country as a soldier? Of course he does. And he may die doing that too.

I leave becoming a citizen here an option, if I can ever accept the Republic and somehow forget the treason of this stolen land.

But in my heart of hearts I know I will not retire here.

America is a great place to work.

But a lousy place to be poor, old and sick.

Cookie
02-11-2011, 06:06 PM
Wait, you edited out, giving us your sympathies... Did you change your mind? lol.

I will speak for me, you also edited out, what a rotten place to be born, the USA; well, I am so damn glad I was made in the USA!

Why do you feel a need to analyze us like a bug under a scope? We don't do that to you, not yet.

Maybe, I could get a better job in the UK. Since they are all taken here.

Ian Gills
02-11-2011, 06:07 PM
It didn't read right. You need to give me a chance to read and re-read my posts a few times. I like to sharpen them up and, sometimes, tone them down! LOL.

But....please....accept my sympathies.

Cookie
02-11-2011, 06:28 PM
I don't think so.

Gary Slusser
02-12-2011, 07:09 AM
Ian, you should move out of MD. MD is too close to DC for one thing. You're probably eating crab and other such things from the Chesapeake Bay and spending too much time in Baltimore.

Living there has obviously warped your already messed up socialist thinking. The democrats have controlled MD for so long it is not very representative of most of the other states in the US.

hj
02-12-2011, 07:44 AM
quote;few people get shot (including by the Police).

That is where you are wrong. Even the police cannot shoot people, most of the time. You read stories about how the police fired 300 rounds at a suspect and MAYBE he is hit with one of them, or the officer fires the entire clip at the suspect and he runs away unharmed. But that leads to the question, would YOU want to be around a civilian when HE is shooting at some lawbreaker, or in YOUR house when your significant other is trying to take down an "intruder", especially if that intruder is you coming home late?

Ian is like the people from New York who move to Arizona and then complain that EVERYTHING about New York is better, but refuse to move back there.

Ian Gills
02-12-2011, 03:35 PM
Look at the numbers people. 100,000 gun-related injuries every year.

Are you guys just too dumb to shoot a gun straight?

And DC is representative of this country. Just not in the House of Representatives.

Thank God the President of the United States is steering this Great Country on a steady course.

Hail to the Chief.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRPtsJ1487w

ballvalve
02-13-2011, 10:08 AM
If you want to get guns off the street, keep yourself safe in DC [maybe the criminal you shoot had Obama on his list too] have a look at this true
example of American freedom:

http://www.icollector.com/Regional-Firearms-Auction_as19023

5500+ nice lots of pistols and longarms up for auction. Send it to your mates in England so they can salivate. Or laugh...

And they ship anywhere within the laws.

Ian Gills
02-13-2011, 12:13 PM
This is an example of an outstanding citizen. Giving up his guns to keep the country safer.

There is no need to keep a firearm in this day and age. That is what we have the Police for.

Or are these guys somehow deficient at their job? Do you need to keep guns in America because the Police are no good?

I trust my safety to them. And my baton.

Redwood
02-13-2011, 02:29 PM
This is an example of an outstanding citizen. Giving up his guns to keep the country safer.

There is no need to keep a firearm in this day and age. That is what we have the Police for.

Or are these guys somehow deficient at their job? Do you need to keep guns in America because the Police are no good?

I trust my safety to them. And my baton.

Wanna go bear hunting?

Redwood
02-13-2011, 02:34 PM
God Save The Queen...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeP220xx7Bs

Ian Gills
02-13-2011, 05:26 PM
Bear hunting?

Most Americans have never seen a bear, let alone have the need to hunt one.

Palin has. But she's also rich. So needs to be taxed more.

None of you will ever be rich, except the guy on here who owns his own baseball team.

So drop the dream. And God Bless England.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kx789b_TvJ4

Ian Gills
02-14-2011, 05:44 AM
But you wouldn't shoot the little thing, would you Cookie?

Last year in the whole of America, there were three bear-related deaths. That's right....three.

Over 30,000 Americans in the same year died as a result of guns.

jimbo
02-14-2011, 06:32 AM
Bear hunting?

Most Americans have never seen a bear, let alone have the need to hunt one.



The ANSWER is apparently YES! Most of you, except possibly Ian, know what the QUESTION is!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/jimbo6679/bearinthewoods-1.jpg

Cookie
02-14-2011, 07:09 AM
That one particular bear was probably small at around 350 pounds. He was sitting under my tree eating a granola bar which I shared with him. He sits on my porch and we wrap grape vines together, he leaves me alone as long as I share the grapes generously. He is a friendly. He had a cut over his eye one day which I doctored up. He respects me, but I respect him more. The neighbors get alittle tiffed over him being fed, donuts, ( his favorite) apples, and granola, and one day they tried to shoot him, instead taking out my water barrel and putting a few slugs in the front of my camp on the wall. They claimed they were target shooting, but I am afraid, my bear was the target. He never bothers anyone and is getting old with me. He is now gray-haired. A few years ago, he brought his youngins around for me to see. I admired them from the distance. He has made the newspaper many times in my area because I did columns on wildlife, camping and hiking. I got a huge response with many people sending in their stories of one, a Sneaky Snake which was funny, all kinds of animal doings. I loved them.

I think I answered your question if I would shoot him. Although, one day, I nearly had to thanks to my husband's stupidity. That was the day I threatened him with the D-Word, if he didn't stop playing with the bears and wanting to feed him, handfeed him bologna.

Our bear, his name is the Yard Sale Bear, by the way, came down this one particular day. I could see he was moody. We were sitting on the porch and he was sitting under the tree you see in the picture. Well, my beloved went inside and got his pound of square bologna out and started up the hill to him. I said, easily, " ah, I wouldn't do that... he looks grumpy."

As all men, what does women know.

So, he continued up the hill. The bear started walking away from him. Well, he had to follow with his hand out with the square bologna. Then, the bear stopped, turned his head to look backwards, giving him the hairy-eyeball. I said easily, " okay, come down now, now..."

The bear walked, he walked. I watched with my eyes getting bigger.

Then, the bear stopped turned around again, this time, looking meaner.

I said easily, " if you don't come down now, I am going to divorce you, I swear if I have to shoot this bear..."

The bear started walking. My nearly divorced husband started walking with the square bologna.

THEN, the bear stopped. HE stood up. He turned around. His fur stood straight up.

I stood up. I easily went inside got the gun, which at the time we only took the 22, and came outside. I started to aim, and I was so mad... it was a coin toss at WHO...

My beloved husband backed down, never turning his back, just walking back a step at a time, and once, a few feet away the bear got back down on all 4's and walked away.

The point to this story is they don't like friggin square bologna

*Addt note for Ian about a 22, it ain't going to kill a bear, it would only make him madder.

ballvalve
02-14-2011, 10:33 AM
We have bears and lions like you guys have rappers out east. The rappers are much more dangerous.

Cookie: NEVER feed a bear, you know its a death sentence for him. Against the law too.

My trusty sidearm has scared and educated many bears to keep away from the ignorant humans that would kill such a noble beast.

Used to have a FULL TIME lion killer here on the county payroll. Killed thousands, sadly and finally they put him to pasture. But they are back, and really a menace - found a few "watching" me from a distance.

Beautiful animals, but I would never let my kid hike without his trusty German Shepherd. Or myself without a weapon.

But I would much rather meet a mountain lion than a crack rapper in DC on a dark night.

Ian Gills
02-14-2011, 11:35 AM
But most Americans do not live in the outback with lions and bears for company.

They think they do, which is why I am trying to awake them from this myth.

Show me your bear, and I'll let you keep your gun.

Else the Government will take it away from you.

And you will comply as Americans love rules.

Why do Americans love rules so much?

ballvalve
02-15-2011, 11:24 AM
But YOU live with 'lions and bears' in DC that have a far lower system of ethics, intelligence, and instinct than my wildlife. At least a lion kills for a natural and valid reason, sustenance. And lions RAISE up their offspring and nurture them far better than many humans.

Only humans and housecats seem to kill for sheer pleasure, therefore, you need a sidearm even more than myself.

Unfortunately, you might have to buy a stolen one in an alley if you are not a citizen. And that would be your main reason to choose citizenship, that most unique American right to bear arms....


As to rules- Americans notoriously dislike rules, just after the Italians. At least the ones I am exposed to.

Redwood
02-17-2011, 02:18 PM
This bear won't attack anyone....

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f2/Redwood39/b_bear_rug.jpg

ballvalve
02-18-2011, 11:20 AM
I would skin a roadkill bear, and have, but that guy would have been better left in the forest.

Shoot deer. Let the noble bear try and survive the onslaught of asphalt.

And do not forget the golden rule: If you kill it, you eat it.

Had a nice Sparrow dinner once when the ol' man caught me blasting a treeful. Made a lasting point. Plucking sparrows is hard work.

Ian Gills
02-18-2011, 02:11 PM
Another excellent reason to ban guns Ballvalve. Thank you.

To protect America's dwindling natural habitat.

Cookie
02-18-2011, 02:42 PM
Well, Ian, where my property in the mountains is located is very rustic. I share my property with bear dens where my creek runs. We share the same water. I flip over rocks looking for fossils knowing that they are there somewhere. To go into these parts of the mountains where black bear are plentiful without a shot gun or scatter gun, or what I also carry, a 30'06 rifle, isn't too smart. I love those bears, I love camping and hiking, and I live to be one with nature, but, it is also, risky with the bears when you can't take shelter. To go without something to protect yourself incase, you come upon a bear just coming out of his hibernation & is hungry, or a mom walking with their young ones; or sometimes, from just a bad bear like a bad person. Not taking something with a big enough gauge is not too smart. I take a shot gun and rifle to protect my kids, my company, and me; hoping, I will never have to use it.

But, you could always try talking him out of it. :) But, I am not sure that bear is going to listen to you, Ian. For one, he may not understand your accent and your King's English, he is afterall, an American Bear. He might think you might taste better, coming from England and all, lol.

Come to think of it, you could use your bobbie, but, their heads are pretty darned hard. Won't work Ian.

Ian Gills
02-18-2011, 04:30 PM
My advice then Cookie is is lose the gun and move. Or just don't go out.

Cookie
02-18-2011, 05:04 PM
Don't ever go camping then, Ian. Just curious, what would you do, if you did go camping, in the woods in the forest, and a bear came charging at you, Ian, what would you do? What would you do to protect your loved ones?

Cookie
02-18-2011, 05:12 PM
Ian, we are different than your England. We all were raised around guns, and bows. I can do either. I grew up fishing with my dad, I was using a bow he made at 5 years old and shooting into bales of hay, I was cleaning his guns at 10. We were instructed on the safety and how to use them. A mistake a parent makes is to make their kids curious about guns etc. Teach them. Maybe, you don't have forests in your country but here we do. And, I won't allow anyone to use my camp property without toting something to protect theirselves, just in case. Something more than a club, Ian.

Ian Gills
02-18-2011, 05:25 PM
what would you do, if you did go camping, in the woods in the forest, and a bear came charging at you, Ian, what would you do?

I'd run at him. I'm 275 pounds. He'd move.

You do not need guns. Like you say, you have bows, crossbows, knives, bats, stones, everything. I don't care what you carry.

Except guns.

The crucial difference is that none of these other weapons can kill 6 people in 30 seconds.

6 Americans.

6 American children.

Terry
02-18-2011, 05:38 PM
Okay,
I think this bear is a Whistler Blackcomb bear going through garbage. This used to be at the end of the last ski run, and then we would hop on a bus and go back to the Whistler gondola, which was across the street from my parents condo.
Avoid the bears, hop on the bus, and head back. Now there is a beautiful village where the garbage dump used to be.

ballvalve
02-19-2011, 02:10 AM
Another excellent reason to ban guns Ballvalve. Thank you.

To protect America's dwindling natural habitat.

Here, you have made an error. Habitat reduction has no connection whatsoever with guns.

In fact, it would be quite the reverse; the honorable hunter, of which most are, would be the most vociferous advocate of habitat protection.

It is the hunter that pounds his head on the steering wheel and sheds a tear when the new Waldomart and lowes pave over the swamps and wild mushrooms, the frogs and salamanders that once ran free, and where the hunter spent his days growing up.

If we were to speak of wildlife, there is a general increase in the population of most game mammals, as children today rather use guns in the ether world. Here, they slaughter fictional characters in a most disturbed way that debases the traditional father to son transfer of weapons and their ethical use.

I think it is clear that the sensational shootings are brought about compliments of our deeply disturbed media. And parents with the brains of slugs and amoeba's.

Hereabouts, the population of deer, bear, lions, and even squirrels have reached huge proportions. You really could hunt with a spear again.

The problem is the expanding population of the human species, again, one of the only that kill for pleasure and perversion. The reduction, education, and stabilization of humans expansion is our only hope.

And at least in America, weapons must remain a part of our life as much as a figurehead royalty matters to the Brits.

Ian Gills
02-19-2011, 06:13 AM
Let Federally-paid marshalls or rangers deal with the culling.

There is no need for ordinary citizens to do that here.

You're not a backward country....any more.

The hunter must be brave and honorable. He must summon the courage to give up his right to own a gun so that those who do harm with guns are also not allowed to own one.

But so far it looks like hunters in America are just too plain selfish and cowardly to do that.

And, media or not, there are a lot of gun deaths in this country.

Once again, in my country a gun death would be national news. Not local news like it is here. You guys seem to accept gun murder as normal without thinking.

It is not normal for a child to get caught in the cross-fire anywhere. It is not normal for a child to take his father's gun to school anywhere. It is not normal for a member of Congress and six others to get shot anywhere.

Get my drift?

What you have going on here with guns is a national disaster. The welfare of the many must overrule the rights of the few.

And that means your guns are going to have to go.

I'd start saying goodbye to them.

Cookie
02-19-2011, 07:01 AM
If that bear was running at you, that bow would be of no use. Did you ever hear of Timothy Treadwell?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Treadwell




I'd run at him. I'm 275 pounds. He'd move.

You do not need guns. Like you say, you have bows, crossbows, knives, bats, stones, everything. I don't care what you carry.

Except guns.

The crucial difference is that none of these other weapons can kill 6 people in 30 seconds.

6 Americans.

6 American children.

Cookie
02-19-2011, 07:38 AM
I will tell you a true story here Ian, which will clearly illustrate how dark our national forests can get when no moon or other lighting is present. And, anyone who camps in the forest will appreciate and know this to be true. It is so dark in the forest when a full moon is not present, nor anyother lighting that you literally cannot see your hand in front of your face or the person walking in front of you.

This is what happened to me. My husband wanted to show our young sons the dump near our camp. When I say near, I mean about one hour driving. His near was not my near. It was already approaching dusk when we entered the closed and empty dump. We started walking through it, heard a water fall but couldn't see it, and we found some stuff to look at, showing the young boys all the waste and saying, " this is why we recycle." This was well before it was the in thing to do. We probably walked about a mile at least and then, as we turned around to head back the darkness hit. Suddenly, it was so dark that it became scary for I knew, the bears eat dinner here and were due. I was walking behind my husband, carrying my younger and lighter son, while holding onto the back of my husband's belt. Yes, it was that dark Ian. I needed to shift my son on my hip and when I did I lost my hold onto his belt. But, I could still hear his steps in front of me, the crunching of the leaves, and twigs. I just stayed in tune with the noise and when it stopped so did I, figuring he was trying to gain his bearing, his direction.

Then, I heard my husband's voice saying, " you still with me?" But, it was coming from another direction. I didn't think he was capable of throwing his voice but, I still reached out in front of me, and grabbed hard what I thought was his belt, and I pulled back a handful of what felt like was hair, and heard him, " growl...."

I was like... following a bear.

I very quietly stepped to the other side and kept stepping sidewards until, I thought I was where I heard his voice coming from. I whispered, " where are you?" He answered, " I am here..." and, I kept tuning into his voice until, I found him.

We found the entrance and exit to the dump. We got into the car, I showed him the hair, the clump of black hair, I had in my hand. When he started laughing, I wanted to shove it up his nose. I have that hair framed and when my kids were small, they loved to show people about the night their mom pulled it from a bear and their dad lived for their mom, to frame it.

Cookie
02-19-2011, 08:25 AM
Yet, Ian, there are also other dangers lurking in the woods. Especially, always come dusk.

For instance, this one night after dinner, we cooked out, I saw front the windows that way down front was a lone dog, and we had left overs. I can't stand to see anything hungry, it crushes me. So, I made this nice little doggy a plate and asked my hubby to walk it down front to feed him. Well, we were always a match made in heaven and he complied.

I didn't notice since I was busy cleaning up that he was gone for a while, and what was all that noise?

He then walked in handing me the plate saying, " the fox wasn't hungry."

oops.

Cookie
02-19-2011, 08:31 AM
We were driving through the mountains to our camp, a camp we loved and couldn't wait to get to. I love the mountain roads and always take notice of the glacial rocks, ( read up on them Ian) and other things, like maybe, a good place to look for fossils or sometimes, I notice an animal which needs help.

This one day, I noticed this cat, sitting all by himself, in the middle of nowhere. I asked my hubby to turn around so we could get this cat and help him. Without so much a grumble he turns around and parks the car walking down to the cat. I turned around in my seat to watch him grab a Bobcat.

The cat started snarling and attacking and the kids and I watched in amazement at how fast daddy could run. Back in the car, with a few bleeding scratches, he said, " he didn't want picked up."

ballvalve
02-19-2011, 11:12 AM
Let Federally-paid marshalls or rangers deal with the culling.

There is no need for ordinary citizens to do that here.

You're not a backward country....any more.

The hunter must be brave and honorable. He must summon the courage to give up his right to own a gun so that those who do harm with guns are also not allowed to own one.

But so far it looks like hunters in America are just too plain selfish and cowardly to do that.

Either this is a bit of English humour or your socialist UK indoctrination is total.

I suggest you cull deer for a year with a baton or long spear if needed, skin dress and eat them fairly exclusively. That 275# will drop to 195, and you will gain a fine appreciation of hunting.

If you eat any meat products, without having at least once performed the tasks from kill through ingestion, I would describe that as hypocrisy.

The system of commercial animal industry is a bit horrifying, and the shot deer is a lucky bloke indeed.

Here is a bit on UK gun slaughters. Still goes on.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2010/06/20106214389905844.html

Ian Gills
02-19-2011, 01:00 PM
That shooting in England was ages ago. They are as rare as steak over there.

However, I read there has been another shooting in Florida today.

Gun murders seem to happen weekly here. But I refuse to become numb to them like the rest of you.

People die, buy hey its your rights, right?

Wrong.

And I was not saying that culling should not be done with guns.

Just that the people that do the culling should not be your average Joe out for a day in the forest, but uniformed rangers who are trained and paid to shoot.

There are people that should be allowed to have guns and those that should not.

Most Americans should fall under the latter category, like in other civilized nations.

We need to regulate more strictly who can own a gun.

Does your job require one? should be question number one.

Are you stupid? should be question number two.

And so on.

Many current gun owners in America would fail these tests. Which is a worry...

Cookie
02-19-2011, 01:32 PM
Hmmm, I wonder how many lives are saved because someone owned a gun. Start looking for data on that Ian. Just think about how many times a life was saved. I bet those numbers are staggering!

Redwood
02-19-2011, 06:01 PM
And do not forget the golden rule: If you kill it, you eat it.

Had a nice Sparrow dinner once when the ol' man caught me blasting a treeful. Made a lasting point. Plucking sparrows is hard work.

On the other hand if you had emptied both barrels with #9 bird shot into a tree loaded with starlings... (That pesky invasive species that came here from England) He would have given you a pat on the back and a job well done...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfkexGdmmQk

They can decimate a corn or grain crop...

Cookie
02-19-2011, 06:16 PM
Yes, yes, yes, Red, I love birds, but, those take down feeders, they swung my trees like you saw in the video and honestly, they scare away most all other birds. I love birds, but, it is very hard to feed them. You just can't. And, the mess, everywhere. I am very tolerate of them, but got to admit I get disgusted with the mess they can make. There are just so many. That video is very true...

Ian Gills
02-20-2011, 07:13 AM
That pesky invasive species that came here from England

Your grey squirrels have almost wiped out our reds.

arfeller
02-20-2011, 09:15 AM
Whether we agree with Ian or not I believe he does have a valid argument. Looking at the numbers it is clear to see that more people are killed with handguns then are saved by them. Thousands of people are killed annually with handguns. The number people saved by handguns each year is pale in comparison. Most people that conceal carry do not have enough training to adequately defend themselves in a confrontation.

Most gun ranges don't allow "shooting from the holster" and dry fire exercises, while helpful, are not commonly practiced.

I think guns do provide people with an illusion of security. I know searches will come up with anecdotal evidence of individuals being saved from attackers or animals with guns. And I can not deny it can and does happen. The argument is simply that this is uncommon and more harm is done that good as a whole.

However... Our constitution protects this right. And we have decided that this right is worth the price of 10,000 gun related homicides a year. Ian has a hard time understanding that rational. I can see his point.

Just to be clear, I own guns. I enjoy shooting and it is a hobby. I think mandatory training should be required. I think mental health should be verified. I think private sales of firearms should have FFL involvement to perform a background check.

Cookie
02-20-2011, 09:22 AM
I think the numbers are high in which lives were saved due to a person having a gun. I would like to see fresh data with those numbers. I think, they are higher than what is posted with this site.

http://gunowners.org/sk0802.htm

Cookie
02-20-2011, 09:24 AM
Don't take offense Ian about the Starlings, because it is not said to be mean. They do cause alot of damage.


Your grey squirrels have almost wiped out our reds.

Cookie
02-20-2011, 09:51 AM
I do this every year.
http://www.birdsource.org/gbbc/

Terry
02-20-2011, 10:35 AM
In Seattle, a man walking in a crosswalk, not bothering anyone, and was shot four times by a policeman.
The man that was killed and is family had been a fixture in Seattle for generations. It was commonly know that he was a Native American, and made his way though life by carving small totem poles, like his father before him, and his grandfather before him. Later it was determined that he had a small pocket knife in the closed position.
It was later determined that there was no cause for the shooting.
If the policeman was so afraid, he could have stayed in his car, instead of getting out of the car and shooting the man crossing in a crosswalk.
I like guns, but I'm not a big fan of, I need it to protect myself. For many men, we are better off cooling down and letting things be.
I don't want to walk into my house at night and see one of my kids pointing a gun at me wondering whether I'm friend or foe.
Lucky for me, I can still run fast.

arfeller
02-20-2011, 10:38 AM
"* Kennesaw, GA. In 1982, this suburb of Atlanta passed a law requiring heads of households to keep at least one firearm in the house. The residential burglary rate subsequently dropped 89% in Kennesaw, compared to the modest 10.4% drop in Georgia as a whole.16 "

I like this one. Apparently it's ok to force people to buy guns. But healthcare? No way... lol

"* Guns used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year -- or about 6,850 times a day.1 This means that each year, firearms are used more than 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives.2 "

I found an interesting article on this number http://www.stat.duke.edu/~dalene/chance/chanceweb/103.myth0.pdf

The article states that 2.5 million gun related defense events happen annually. These numbers where gathered using a phone survey. So if i understand correctly the survey says guns are good because they prevent more people from being killed by guns? What is truly difficult to figure is the actual number of lives saved by these events.

I enjoy discussing topics such as this. I enjoy reading other opinions. The only way for a society to improve is to think and debate topics such as this. I know my opinions are not always popular and are sometimes incorrect. I was surprised to see the high numbers listed in this survey. And after all this I should also say, I have had a cc permit for almost 15 years and have never had to brandish or draw my firearm for any reason. I know... as the great doc holiday would say 'my hypocrisy knows no bounds'

ballvalve
02-20-2011, 10:49 AM
On the other hand if you had emptied both barrels with #9 bird shot into a tree loaded with starlings... (That pesky invasive species that came here from England) He would have given you a pat on the back and a job well done...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfkexGdmmQk

They can decimate a corn or grain crop...

We had an Italian neighbor that lived for the pillowcases full of starlings that we brought him. You may know the Italians have pretty much eliminated all birds in Italy by netting them, Apparently they are a big delicacy.

The farmers let us hunt their land if we shot all the pigeons possible. We ate those, fantastic.

Pumps and automatic shotguns with re-loaded #7 and # 6 did the trick. The ol man had a 12 gauge Browning that turned itself into a part time full automatic! We kept pretty far from him when he opened up fire.

Imagine that in the 60's and even 70's, 3 or 4 16 year old kids could walk down the railroad tracks through the center of a town of 60,000 with shotguns and rifles over their shoulders, on their way to the countryside to hunt. Never turned a single head.

And maybe we should start calling Ian starling!

ballvalve
02-20-2011, 10:55 AM
Your grey squirrels have almost wiped out our reds.

They have not been successful at all, your country is full of 'reds'.

Cookie
02-20-2011, 10:57 AM
Terry, it happens. There are good people and then, there are bad people. Good and bad in all professions. Because of this, I will excuse the cop who came to my house the night my husband had succumbed to a heart attack. He was plainly, an idiot.

To think, though, taking away the rights to own a gun, thinking, this is going to reduce the harm from them, is very naive. No matter how much people do not like to hear this, a gun just may save your life, or save you from bodily harm.

We do not live in a perfect world, and cannot fight bears off, and bad people off with sticks and stones.





In Seattle, a man walking in a crosswalk, not bothering anyone, and was shot four times by a policeman.
The man that was killed and is family had been a fixture in Seattle for generations. It was commonly know that he was a Native American, and made his way though life by carving small totem poles, like his father before him, and his grandfather before him. Later it was determined that he had a small pocket knife in the closed position.
It was later determined that there was no cause for the shooting.
If the policeman was so afraid, he could have stayed in his car, instead of getting out of the car and shooting the man crossing in a crosswalk.
I like guns, but I'm not a big fan of, I need it to protect myself. For many men, we are better off cooling down and letting things be.
I don't want to walk into my house at night and see one of my kids pointing a gun at me wondering whether I'm friend or foe.
Lucky for me, I can still run fast.

ballvalve
02-20-2011, 11:16 AM
There is a bit missing from that story. The cop was insane? Hated indians? Walked too slow?

Kids are damn good at telling dads from heroin addicts if they are old enough to shoot a pistol or long gun. Especially if dad turns on the lights and burp or farts when he enter the house loudly.

Do not come in through the window in a halloweeen mask!

And get a BIG German Shepherd. Better than ANY gun.

And for Ian, here is the ultimate spokesman for the UK - John Lennon - "Happiness is a warm gun"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pewhvFXnm4&feature=watch_response

Its a pity he did not carry his own or have a body guard with all those earnings.

Ian Gills
02-20-2011, 12:29 PM
Ah yes, that's right. John Lennon was shot in America.

And not at home.

But then he wouldn't have been shot in England, would he? Because guns are banned there.

I'd like to say that we are less violent than Americans. But we're not. We drink more and fight in the streets.

But the simple fact of the matter is this. Because guns are banned there, there are fewer of them.

And that means less people get shot. Which means less people die.

Guns kill. Knives rarely do.

Ban guns if you value the lives of Americans.

And stop doing the terrorists work for them.

Cookie
02-20-2011, 12:37 PM
Wrong thing to say Ian. If one person, had a gun aboard one of those planes, a good passenger; lives would had been saved. Lots and lots of lives, plus, saving the hearts of those who live without those loved ones.

It wasn't London it happened in right? They weren't heading for your capitol right? Or your whitehouse right?

The man who shot John was insane. Were they who flew our planes into our buildings?

Ian Gills
02-20-2011, 06:02 PM
9/11 was no more than 3000 deaths.

The London bombings killed another 56.

Madrid train bombing killed 191.

But you've got to ask why they bother when Americans kill 10,000 of each other every year with guns?

Ban guns. It's a no-brainer.

What makes the lives of those lost to guns so worthless to you guys?

Terry
02-20-2011, 06:12 PM
One time I asked my father if paid killings were like in the movies. Killers in cars waiting to run someone down with their cars.
His response.

"No. Before they get to their car, they grab them, and then smash their head against the ground until they are dead. They need to make sure the person is dead before they can leave. It happens all the time."

It was a bit chilling to hear that from him.
Every once in a while, I would hear something from him, that I wasn't getting in the papers. Things that didn't make the papers. But then, he was a judge, and was in contact with law enforcement all the time.

Cookie
02-20-2011, 07:25 PM
Okay, Ian, whatever you say... LOL.


9/11 was no more than 3000 deaths.

The London bombings killed another 56.

Madrid train bombing killed 191.

But you've got to ask why they bother when Americans kill 10,000 of each other every year with guns?

Ban guns. It's a no-brainer.

What makes the lives of those lost to guns so worthless to you guys?

Cookie
02-21-2011, 08:00 AM
I got to admit it makes me laugh Ian, at your perception of things at times. Here we got terriorists who took over our planes and flew them into major buildings taking countless lives in I can only imagine being aboard any of those planes in terror, which is what they wanted; countless lives lost in buildings where people had to choose quickly whether to jump or to burn, and then, those the loved ones of those who perished get to live with this all. But, you somehow are able to turn it all around and compare it to we don't care about the loss of lives due to a gun.

I bet anyone of those people aboard any of those planes wished at a fleeting moment they had one.
If we forget what happened, or take it casually, it is a sure bet, it will happen again. We need marshalls aboard each plane, 2 of them, armed, and we need 2 on each plane, or else, it would be 2 against one fighting for the lives of everyone aboard that plane and the lives of those on the ground it will hit if unsuccessful.

Anyone who travels alot, who flies alot, knows the risks. It amazes me that in this age of terriorism, with many things going on, you want only the criminals to be the only ones with weapons. You naively think, this is going to stop them from getting them and will reduce deaths. What are you thinking? If you do your homework, even within your own county, polls show that your people want the right to bear arms and defend their lives and families.

Like I said, I would bet the number of lives saved per year due to someone having a gun is enoromous. Onto the list we could had easily added on alone, 3,000 Ian. AND, all the other events, all other bombings, and events of destruction, all those lives lost. Do they not count Ian? They could had been saved. Multitudes of people.

This is not a perfect world, we cannot act as it is. It is a troubled world. And, taking away a person's rights to defend theirselves is clearly, not the answer. Handing them a stick, or a stone, or tell them to use their own body weight, does nothing against someone or something, with a bomb, gun, or big teeth and claws.

Empower the people not the other way around.

Cookie
02-21-2011, 09:24 AM
The phone line from Flight 93 was still open when a GTE operator heard Todd Beamer say: 'Are you guys ready? Let's roll'

Sunday, September 16, 2001

By Jim McKinnon, Post-Gazette Staff Writer

"Are you guys ready? Let's roll!"

That's how Todd Beamer lived.

And that's how he died, helping to lead a takeover by passengers on United Airlines Flight 93, which crashed Tuesday in Somerset County. It was the fourth plane to go down in last week's terrorist attacks.

Todd Beamer

Beamer, an Oracle Inc. executive from Hightstown, N.J., and others are being credited with foiling hijackers bent on crashing the Boeing 757 into what authorities say might have been a second target in Washington, D.C., possibly the Capitol or the White House.

Flight 93 had left Newark, N.J., at 8 a.m. Tuesday, bound for San Francisco.

"That's Todd," his wife, Lisa, said yesterday of the "Let's roll!" command, which he made over the plane's in-flight telephone. A GTE supervisor talked with him for about 13 minutes before the plane crashed.

"My boys even say that. When we're getting ready to go somewhere, we say, 'C'mon guys, let's roll.' My little one says, 'C'mon, Mom, let's roll.' That's something they picked up from Todd."

Beamer, 32, told the GTE supervisor, Lisa D. Jefferson, that he and others on the plane had decided they would not be pawns in the hijackers' suicidal plot.

Jefferson told him about the other hijackings and Beamer made her promise to call his wife and their two boys, David, 3, and Andrew, 1.

Beamer's call connected at 9:45 a.m. He told Jefferson there were three hijackers, armed with knives. He did not know their nationalities or their intentions.

One of the men had what appeared to be a bomb tied to his midsection with a red belt.

Beamer said he could account for 37 of the plane's 38 passengers. The hijackers had forced 27 of them into the first-class compartment near the front.

Beamer, nine other passengers and five flight attendants were ordered to sit on the floor in the rear of the plane.

He did not know the whereabouts of the pilot, copilot and the remaining passenger. He said a flight attendant had told him the pilot and copilot had been forced from the cockpit and may have been wounded.

Two of the hijackers were in the cockpit with the door locked behind them. The man with the bomb stayed in the back of the plane, near Beamer's group.

With him were others who placed cell-phone calls from the plane, Jeffery Glick, 31, a sales manager for a technology firm, Thomas Burnett Jr., 38, a California businessman, and Mark Bingham, 31, a former college rugby player from California. Beamer mentioned Glick by his first name in the call to Jefferson, Lisa Beamer said.

Toward the end of his conversation with Jefferson, Beamer said the plane appeared to have changed directions a few times. Later, it would be determined that it had flown west from Newark to near Cleveland, then turned back to the southeast toward Pittsburgh.

Beamer became anxious.

"Oh! We're going down!" he shouted at one point.

He paused, then said in a calmer voice, "No, we're OK. I think we're turning around."

Beamer then told Jefferson that he and the others had decided to "jump on" the hijacker wearing the bomb.

Jefferson could hear shouts and commotion and then Beamer asked her to pray with him. They recited the 23rd Psalm.

He got Jefferson to promise that she would call his family, then dropped the phone, leaving the line open.

That's when Jefferson heard what Lisa Beamer believes were her husband's last words: "Let's roll."

Then there was silence. Jefferson hung up at 10 a.m. EST, realizing that the plane had gone down. Officials said it crashed at 9:58 a.m.

Although it's not yet clear what Beamer, Glick and the others were able to do, they are being hailed as heroes for forcing the plane down in a remote strip mine area in Stoneycreek, Somerset County, about 80 miles southeast of Pittsburgh.

"When the plane started to fly erratically, he said he knew he wouldn't make it out of there," said Lisa Beamer, who is expecting their third child in January.

Lisa Beamer said reports of her husband's heroic role had "made my life worth living again." Jefferson kept her promise and called Lisa Beamer at 8 p.m. Friday.

"It was the best thing that I could've gotten [Friday]. It totally changed the mood around here," Lisa Beamer said.

Jefferson, reached by telephone yesterday, declined comment. She said GTE's parent company, Verizon, may issue a statement tomorrow about Beamer's call.

Lisa Beamer said the call she received from Jefferson had lifted her family's spirits.

"We all knew what kind of person Todd was. We know he's in heaven. He was saved," Lisa Beamer said.

"Just knowing that when the crisis came up he maintained the same character we all knew, it's a testament to what real faith means.

"It's been a real uplift. It's put a spring in my step that I didn't have since Monday."

The couple met at Wheaton College near Chicago, hometown for both of them. After graduation and marriage, they moved to New Jersey and both took jobs at Oracle before starting a family.

"He's a great guy in a crisis. He would have had his family in the forefront of his thoughts. And he would not let other people overpower him," Lisa Beamer said.

ballvalve
02-21-2011, 11:31 AM
If Todd had a pistol with him, the plane might have survived.

Funny how I used to fly all the time with a pistol in the good old days before Muslims decided we all needed to die. Then, I think the Cubans were the issue.

My uncle was a military dog trainer, pilot, and sky marshall. Had he been on that flight [as all flights should have] that plane would have landed with several crazies in body bags visiting their thousand virgins.

5$ per ticket would put a guard on every flight in the US.

Now THAT'S a tax we need. Or take it from the teachers and municipal morons in Wisconsin and California, and ........ name your sate.

Cookie
02-21-2011, 11:48 AM
I find it appalling that not on each flight there are marshalls. Just think about it. Talk about weapons, that plane can be a huge one. It cannot be taken for granted that all weapons are being found before boarding, and no one should die because of it. Those people aboard those planes deserve to have a chance. Without marshalls your chance of survival if something would happen is none. I read an article once, and I can't find it, but it said it would raise the ticket price alot. Who cares? A five buck tax is great but, so is any amount. It is a new world in flying and the owners of the airlines have to really realize this.
How sad, but how so true. Remember the shoe bomber? Unbelievable. Eventually, we will have nothing but buck naked people boarding the planes, and sadly, will still not be enough. And, some people just look alot better with their clothes on.

So, enlight of that, I am back on the treadmill. I am vain.

Yes, that is a tax we need. Or just raise the price of the ticket to cover the sky marshall's wages. I would pay it. Gladly.

Ian Gills
02-21-2011, 02:42 PM
Sigh.

So you guys don't mind paying more for a marshall on every plane but when it comes to paying a little more tax to put every kid through a good school, provide universal healthcare, salaried firemen and prevent global warming that's all a no-no.

I just don't get it.

You are scared of the wrong things.

Cookie
02-21-2011, 02:44 PM
Oh, brother.

ballvalve
02-22-2011, 09:28 AM
Sigh.

So you guys don't mind paying more for a marshall on every plane but when it comes to paying a little more tax to put every kid through a good school, provide universal healthcare, salaried firemen and prevent global warming that's all a no-no.

I just don't get it.

You are scared of the wrong things.

Here is a overly long complimentary primer on how to get it:

We need good PARENTS, and TWO of them. Kids in the inner cities might as well have wolves as parents.

And we need good TEACHERS. With batons and the right to use them. So many are just absolute dopes on the dole.

Kids need absolute protection from violent video games, of which 99% qualify. Back to pac-man.

Too many firemen already, And notably, I just discovered a government program with free dental, vision and health care for any child to 19 years. Parents can make from 35,000$ to 60,000$ dependant on # of kids in the house. Its just not advertised. A very small co-share payment.

Virtually every state gives you what we call medi-cal if you really are poor, with varying levels of cost share from 0 to 100 bucks a month. Cheaper than the UK, I'm sure and the level of care can be good.

My renters are on medi-cal, and their access to health care is better than my private policy. They get $200 a month in food stamps and a NON church organized food bank packs their gut with anything they want.

In the saga of educating you on Americas nature, I have known and employed a LOT of the poor, and they do not have the wherwithal and ambition to fill out the forms to get the free care.

Then they don't have the brains to check their engine oil and tire pressure, so their cars become lawn ornaments. Or they have a DUI.

I have one worker with great skills in one place. On every other level he is brain dead.

I have to buy him cars, insure them, and make a maintenance agreement in my micro loans to him.

I bought him 16 acres and a mobile and sold it to him on a private note for 30 years. [way out in the outback on a BAD road, granted] ....My other guys fix his water system, fixtures and tow him out when he slides off his road.

Won't get medi-cal, rather pulls his own teeth as they rot out. Offered to buy his eye checkup- no ambition to make the call.

Got registered as a sex offender because he sniffed the hair of a 17 year old gaggle of sluts at the county fair [and their boyfriends watched] Saved him from the big house with my lawyer.... [cops and DA suck and "womens advocate" programs just need to make a quota for convicting 'perverts' to stay on the dole]

Finally, we must open every import container that hits our docks, and make the sender pay for the inspection. We would stop the drugs that poison our kids and reduce our trade deficit by 2/3's by discovering all the counterfeit high end items and mis-marked items that should have duties imposed.

No politician has the gonads to do the job.

So the moral is, many of the poor Americans still have the "pioneer" spirit and forego the programs available to them.

The Brits have a culture of "take care of me", and so skip pulling their own teeth.

Ian Gills
02-22-2011, 10:07 AM
With all these "pioneering" poor people in the US, it makes you wonder why the more conservative groups in society keep wining about "entitlements" and "milking the system".

Clearly they are very much uninformed.

I say let Wisconsin keep collective bargaining if the poor don't know how to use it anyway.

In short...I don't believe you.

There are no safety nets for the poor here. Because y'all too tight to pay for them.

ballvalve
02-22-2011, 10:24 AM
Stop in at your local social services office and get the laundry list of what care programs are available.

Private help helps a lot. My worker and renters would be living in a shopping cart without my payroll deductions and the Gov. assistance that you have not researched well.

"Micro loans" from me have saved countless workers from the streets - its actually a big UNESCO program for 3rd world countries now. I assume many employers utilize this system.

Another set of renters are totally on the dole from 2 semi retarded kids. Beautiful mobile I rehabbed with all pine floors and cadet 3's.

And when I got here I was dirt poor. Raised pigs and grew all my food. But the nuns taught me to fill out forms and to persist.

bought 12 beautiful acres with a creek and pine trees that England only has in parks. Built the house with them. Got a private loan to make the start.

You may be reading the wrong writers on Americas woes.

Help the poor that want to work and the mentally deficient. Let the remainder eat cake.

Ian Gills
02-22-2011, 10:40 AM
I agree. But my point has always been that America does a lousy job of helping the poor that want to work.

This is because some of you are so pre-occupied with looking after yourselves, what you like to call "personal responsibility", that you have become a little tight in the purse strings.

The requirements are simple.

A good, free education. Means-tested. Even university education. No poor, bright kid left behind. Schools should be free for kids from poor families, even the meals. All schools should be open to kids from all areas. Rich area schools should have quotas for enrolling kids from poor backgrounds. The Feds should be queueing up to pay for bright poor kids. But I don't see 'em.

Good, free access to healthcare, drugs and dental. Means-tested. No questions asked. One form (your W2). No co-pays. If you are poor, you get it. Kids shouldn't even need a form. If you're a kid you should get free healthcare. Period.

An allowance to cover job search costs. How else can a poor person afford to find a job?

Generous benefits for the unemployable through disability; injury on the job etc.

If you do these things the country will get more back in taxes that it would ever spend in providing them.

LOTW
02-22-2011, 11:45 AM
A parable: There was once an esteeemd professor of economics at a major university who had a reputation for being a very harsh grader. One semester he had a student, who we will call Ian. Ian was a very good student, worked very hard, and was very bright. All semester he received the best grades in the class, indeed the best the professor had ever awarded in his 40 years of teaching. Other students struggled, most earning C's and with a few earning D's and even F's. The last exam covered alternatives to capitalism, but unfortunately, Ian did not correctly answer two questions on socialism. Receiving his test score, Ian went to the professor to discuss the same and told the professor that he did not understand socialism as well as he did the rest of the class materials. The professor said, "Ian, you still did the best in the class by far. I am impressed by your hard work, and you should not be concerned." The course soon ended and final grades were posted. Ian looked at the final grades and was shocked to note that everyone received a C, including himself and the students who had been failing. He immediately went back to the professor and complained. "It's not fair," he said, "I worked hard, they did not. I earned an A as I was by far the best student." The professor responded by explaining that what he had done was to average everyone's score so that no one would fail. "But that's not fair to me!" said Ian. "Perhaps not, said the professor, but now you understand socialism."

Ian Gills
02-22-2011, 12:15 PM
Thanks for the lesson.

But I am not arguing for equality in outcomes.

I am arguing for equality in opportunity.

Let me be blunt.

Does it not bother a single one of you that a person born to a poor family in this country has fewer opportunities than one born to a rich family?

A bright kid with poor parents will not have access to the same level of education or healthcare than an equally-bright kid born to rich parents purely due to their ability to pay. Nothing to do with the kid's hard work. Simply that he was unfortunate enough to be born to poor parents.

And all because the taxpayer refuses to pick up the slack.

That doesn't fit very well with your dream does it?

Cookie
02-23-2011, 07:02 AM
Ian, I don't know who in your family you may take after, but in mine, I am just like my dad. My dad always tried to save the world, he would give away his last dollar in his wallet and do anything to help anyone. Then at his funeral a man came up to me saying, " your dad was nothing but a drunk." Well, I had him physically taken out of there. But, my dad did drink especially, after my mom died. I always wondered what this man might had been like if he never served and saw the horrors of ww2. He suffered with PTSS. I grew up fast Ian. I would hold my dad at night when he woke up screaming in terror. This man had a huge heart and couldn't stand to see anyone suffer or go hungry. That day Ian, when my dad and I were alone for the last time, I tucked a dollar up my dad's sleeve so no one could ever say my dad died without a dollar to his name. Greedy heartless people didn't want to see why my dad didn't have a dollar to his name or why he drank. But, I knew. He had a heart of gold. And, wanted to fix the world. Sometimes, I read what you write and I know your heart is a big one, and made of gold, too. The only difference really between my dad and I is in, I know, I can't fix the world, but I can make the difference maybe, if lucky, in a person at a time or one reason at a time.

Ian Gills
02-23-2011, 08:23 AM
That was a very moving thing you wrote Cookie.

So I will stop there.

ballvalve
02-24-2011, 10:24 AM
Probably a good place to stop, as it was likely dad was helping save the UK from the bosch.

As to averaging scores, as long as his leader is not Stalin, the bright guy gets ahead even without a test. Judge a man by his works.

As to the poor parents, unless they are disabled, there is a reason for them being poor, usually low ambition and intelligence.

We are a small, rural, poor county and yet there are 5 private preschools and 3 "headstart" type schools for kids that have monsters as parents. Free. The problem, is that without Stalin as the boss hog, you cannot make the parents take the kids to class. And their cars dont start, and now we have no jobs either.

Job search costs? Here is a good joke on us from the Feds: We have a program called "Mother lode job training", where a gaggle of admistrators and "teachers" sit around doing nothing because no one enrolls in the course - free. They teach them how to job shop and dress nice, and then if I hire them, I get 1/2 off their pay for several months as I train them. Its been 5 years since they had a soul to offer me. They get paid to do nothing.

Go figure. I trained several kids years ago, and they really did need that subsidy to be employable. Maybe they get enough now on foodstamps and welfare to not need to bother enrolling. Programs are in place, ambitions are not.

My best education was 20,000 miles on a jeep and motorcycle around the entire USA when I was 18. Slept on the dirt. Got my masters in that trip. Didnt cost the taxpayers a shilling.

Cookie
02-25-2011, 01:13 PM
ha ha ha ha ha, my first job was to teach in a headstart. Infact~~ it was there, that I started a paper on music therapy for autism. Just as a fluke, I noticed that when I played an old beat up record player, 45's, that those kids stopped rocking back & forth and, later noticing that I was able to make eye contact a heck of alot easier, too. Those papers are proudly still being used to teach others.

Ah, my friend, in each profession we will find good and bad who will or won't do the job as desired, but how unfair to judge the entire profession.

I know many great teachers in the public school system. I had the misfortune to be acquainted with a couple really bad plumbers but, I wouldn't judge the entire plumbing industry due to them.

Cookie
02-25-2011, 01:14 PM
Thank you Ian, he was a great man.