Slab house with low pitch to septic - Do I need a pressure assist ?

Miketinternet · Jan 3, 2011

I have had my slab house for a few years and I have occasional clogging problems with one toilet that is on the first floor. I have been told by a plumber that it is because of the pitch AFTER getting advice from him on a new toilet and finding it doesn't work all the time without a plunger.

The new toilet I have is an American Standard Townsend Champion 4. I have had some people say it could be a line clog but it works fine for liquids, it is just the occasional solid that needs a plunge. Would you reccomend an air assist or something else? This toilet is supposed to be a top performer but it isn't in my opinion.

Another note, there is an occasional leak at the flange when I have to plunge which needs to be fixed as well. Does the seal at the base cause any issues with flushing performance? The plumber that broke it says the flange is broken which is another ordeal because it is concrete and it is newer construction.

Any ideas? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Jadnashua · Jan 3, 2011

Pressure assist only helps get things out of the bowl, not down the pipe (and then, not necessarily any better than a good gravity flush toilet). If the slope of the line doesn't meet industry standards, that in itself could be a reason why things clog. A leak at the flange won't affect the overall ability to produce a flush without clogging. A clog could pass liquids and back up with solids depending on what's clogging things. Something like a pen/pencil etc. will do that but normally is caught in the toielt, not in the larger pipes. Roots, etc., could cause that as well or a collapsed line, broken line, or a belly (reversed slope) section.

Sponsor · 2022-01-29T12:20:58-0800

Basement_Lurker · Jan 3, 2011

Why would a low pitched drain line cause a toilet to clog...that plumber is feeding you nonsense. A low pitched line will cause problems....but not the one you describe. The champion toilets are garbage btw.

Dlarrivee · Jan 3, 2011

Basement_Lurker said:
Why would a low pitched drain line cause a toilet to clog...that plumber is feeding you nonsense. A low pitched line will cause problems....but not the one you describe. The champion toilets are garbage btw.

He didn't claim that the pitch was low, in fact he didn't mention high or low.

For all we know the plumber could have claimed the pipe had too MUCH slope...

Basement_Lurker · Jan 3, 2011

uhh...did you read the topic of this thread?

hj · Jan 4, 2011

A pressure assisted toilet will do NOTHING to improve the flow in the drain lines. Leakage while plunging ONLY occurs if the drain line is full of water. We cannot even be sure that the diagnosis you are giving us is the correct one, so would have to be there and do our own evaluation. ( I do not trust any diagnosis except my own.)

Miketinternet · Jan 4, 2011

It was a low pitch in the plumbers opinion

After the toilet went in and the plumber came back to try and fix the leak at the base he said it might be because of a low pitch in his opinion. The first 8 feet or so of this run is new construction that was inspected so I assume that is the correct pitch but the rest buried under the floor from the 60's might be shallow. The base is still leaking and he is telling me he would bust up the floor so I am not too hot on his opinions anymore(From what I understand you do not need to do this if the flange is broken).

In general terms does a clog that goes away with a plunger reside more in the toilet than the line or can a plunger be effective on a line clog? It doesn't seem like plungers have much more that a few feet of effectiveness but I don't know.

Jadnashua · Jan 4, 2011

A plunger won't work if there is air in the line, so it could work a long ways if the entire line was full up to the clog. The only way to tell if the pitch is incorrect is to probably run a camera down the line. If you pour water from a bucket into the toilet, does that drain?

Miketinternet · Jan 4, 2011

Toilet flushes fine with #1 all day long, it is just 50/50 on #2 and I thought with a newer toilet like this it would never need plunging so I thought it might be something else.

Jadnashua · Jan 4, 2011

Not all toilets are created equal! SOme are real dogs. No toilet will work if there's something caught in the trap of the toilet like a pen, pencil, etc. This won't be dislodged by a plunger and may not be caught by a toilet auger. Sometimes you need other, more direct means to get it out. Sounds like that's your situation. Whatever is caught catches the toilet paper and solids and clogs, but will pass liquids. You may need to pull the toilet and carfully turn it over and look from the bottom. A mirror helps, and a little camera designed for this should tell if it is clear (See Snake is one).

Gary Swart · Jan 4, 2011

American Standard is not the choice of most of the regulars on this forum. It is better than some of the other brands, but still not the best. Pressure assisted toilets are largely an attempt to overcome a poorly designed toilet. Toto, the world's largest manufacture of toilets, does not offer a pressure assist because their design eliminates any need.

Terry · Jan 4, 2011

If the clog is in the trapway, then it's the toilet. In otherwards, if a closet auger, or plunging works, it's local to the bowl.
Sometimes plunging a toilet will break the wax seal. If that happens, you may need to reset the bowl. If you are on a slab, and the flange is broken, a fairy easy thing to do, it attach a repair flange to hold the bolts. A bowl must be flat to the floor, if not flat to the floor, it needs shimming until there is no rock. Then it's bolted down and sealed with caulk to the floor. Any movement is going to break the wax seal.

If the bowl is fine, and it really is the plumbing below the slab, then a pressure assist will move what you have farther down the line.
They do work a little differently than the gravity tanks, pushing instead of pulling.

Ballvalve · Jan 7, 2011

When you have the toilet off, stick a garden hose in the flange and see if the line backs up.

hj · Jan 7, 2011

A toilet will SELDOM leak on the floor, IF the drain line is clear so the water can flow directly into it. It has NOTHING to do with the slope of the pipe. You could have a toilet with a "pinhole" leak in the bottom which only leaks when the toilet is flushed. I once had a Kohler toilet that had a hole the size of a broom straw in it. IF the toilet had a "big" wax ring, which spread out, it covered the hole, but it was exposed and leaked with a regular one.

Miketinternet · Jan 11, 2011

Not leaking all the time, just occasionally when plunging

The toilet flushes most of the time without issues but does clog on the occasional solid that I have to plunge. Sometimes when plunging it will leak a little at the base.

I think you might have the answer on the leak at the base. The clog must be past the toilet but in the pipe for plunging to cause a leak since maybe I am drawing water back up on the plunge possibly or the plunge is causing water to come out on the down stroke since it is more pressure than normal?

Thanks for all your help, I am going to see if I can get the line snaked to ensure it is clear and also inspect the toilet since I do have kids so anything could be in there. From that if it is still an issue it sounds like a push with pressure assist is the last option.

Winslow · Jan 13, 2011

you may have a partial clog, maybe someone put something down the toilet drain during construction. just because it backs up doesn;t neccesarily mean incorrect slope.

Slab house with low pitch to septic - Do I need a pressure assist ?

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